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Cliff48

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Re: NBN progress?
Reply #1800 - Apr 28^th, 2014 at 4:58pm

longweekend58 wrote on Apr 28^th, 2014 at 4:47pm:

[quote author=Cliff48 link=1379382456/1797#1797 date=1398666932]Until there is an audit of the state of the copper in the network we can only go by the stories around us and our own experiences.

In my case, when it rains I am lucky to be able to make a phone call ... its like calling Kellogs and just getting 'Snap Crackle Pop'. Maintaining an internet connection for more 5 minutes is impossible.

Calling Telstra is a waste of time. At the time of the problem they receive so many calls they cant schedule a technician for days. When the techo eventually arrives the rain has long since stopped, the pits have dried out and he informs me that there is no problem with my connection.

To add insult to injury, the techo informs me that if I report the problem again I will be charged for a 'false call out' - around $300.

Quote:

the absence of an audit doesn't automatically grant credence to your stories or allow you to extrapolate.

It also doesnt allow you to refute/deny the claims of the stories of many. (Do you ever read forums.whirlpool?)

Quote:

I am sure you have a problem. I am equally sure I don't and no one I know does either. Yes, there is a maintenance problem apparently but your belief that fibre will fix all that is amusing. it will break down too as will all the equipment along that line.

Of course fibre will break down too. But current estimates is that fibre and copper at the same cost - copper life 30 yrs ... fibre life 50 yrs

Quote:

But Telstra is a crap company. They once tried to disconnect my phone because I paid the account by cheque and they said they took 14 days to process a cheque. their incompetence is not my problem. But likewise I don't believe Telstra takes 14 days to process EVERYONES payment.

But you accept they are a crap company and wish to build a broadband network or their poorly supported infrastructure

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Cliff48 Gold Member Offline Australian Politics /> Posts: 2109 Canberra Gender:	Re: NBN progress? Reply #1801 - Apr 28^th, 2014 at 4:59pm .
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Cliff48 Gold Member Offline Australian Politics /> Posts: 2109 Canberra Gender:	Re: NBN progress? Reply #1802 - Apr 28^th, 2014 at 4:59pm .
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Grendel

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Re: NBN progress?
Reply #1803 - Apr 28^th, 2014 at 5:02pm

St George of the Garden wrote on Apr 28^th, 2014 at 11:58am:

Who said going past the theoretical maximum?

What about all those on ADSL2x on 5 or 8mbps? Plenty of those out there.

Me

Running FTTN over their copper still means all the problems of the copper are there, plus crosstalk plus contention. Do you think someone will be deliriously happy to go from 5 to 6mbps yet still has no service after rain?

Really you need to stop this rain crap. Do you actually think rain affects the networks so much? Do you honestly think everyone has flooded pits? Time for a reality check if you do monk.

Upload still much the (inadequate) same? All this for $91Bn + remediation?

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St George of the Garden

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Re: NBN progress?
Reply #1804 - Apr 28^th, 2014 at 5:08pm

The point is, roach, running FTTN over the rotten copper does not remove any the problems with the copper and gives minimum speed increase. Whether or not you lose voice or data after rain a lot of people do—I always had trouble with the EFTPOS machine in the shop after substantial rain. Have a look at Whirlpool.

So $91Bn for a minor speed bump and no remediation of all the problems the copper has. Crap idea!

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Cliff48

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Re: NBN progress?
Reply #1805 - Apr 28^th, 2014 at 5:22pm

There seems to be a misconception between the ftth/fttn adversaries.

People wishing for a ftth solution are not requesting superfast broadband for no extra cost.

In other countries it costs around $5000 to upgrade a fttn to ftth connection. That's way out of my league.

But a ftth from day one will be a cost of a few hundred dollars, not thousands.

Even with ftth installed, I would still have to pay extra to receive the increased bandwidth. That would not be free. It would just mean that to receive the increase would be bandwidth usage - not a $5000 surcharge on top.

Making the extra bandwidth accessible is where NBNco would recoup the costs. Instead, the are proposing a system that no one will want to access.

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St George of the Garden Gold Member Offline http://tinyurl.com/n 3o8m2x Posts: 9809 Gender:	Re: NBN progress? Reply #1806 - Apr 28^th, 2014 at 5:31pm But with FTTH there is no $29.95 a month line rental and call costs will also be less. FTTH ends up costing the same or a bit less than ADSL + line rental + call costs. And never forget the increase in UPload speed and what that makes possible.
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Cliff48

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Re: NBN progress?
Reply #1807 - Apr 28^th, 2014 at 5:42pm

St George of the Garden wrote on Apr 28^th, 2014 at 5:31pm:

But with FTTH there is no $29.95 a month line rental and call costs will also be less. FTTH ends up costing the same or a bit less than ADSL + line rental + call costs.

And never forget the increase in UPload speed and what that makes possible.

To be honest, if was connected to fibre and still had to pay my $30/month connection charge - thats fine. Always happy to pay for a more reliable service.

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longweekend58

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Re: NBN progress?
Reply #1808 - Apr 28^th, 2014 at 5:56pm

Cliff48 wrote on Apr 28^th, 2014 at 4:58pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Apr 28^th, 2014 at 4:47pm:

[quote author=Cliff48 link=1379382456/1797#1797 date=1398666932]Until there is an audit of the state of the copper in the network we can only go by the stories around us and our own experiences.

In my case, when it rains I am lucky to be able to make a phone call ... its like calling Kellogs and just getting 'Snap Crackle Pop'. Maintaining an internet connection for more 5 minutes is impossible.

Calling Telstra is a waste of time. At the time of the problem they receive so many calls they cant schedule a technician for days. When the techo eventually arrives the rain has long since stopped, the pits have dried out and he informs me that there is no problem with my connection.

To add insult to injury, the techo informs me that if I report the problem again I will be charged for a 'false call out' - around $300.

Quote:

the absence of an audit doesn't automatically grant credence to your stories or allow you to extrapolate.

It also doesnt allow you to refute/deny the claims of the stories of many. (Do you ever read forums.whirlpool?)

Quote:

I am sure you have a problem. I am equally sure I don't and no one I know does either. Yes, there is a maintenance problem apparently but your belief that fibre will fix all that is amusing. it will break down too as will all the equipment along that line.

Of course fibre will break down too. But current estimates is that fibre and copper at the same cost - copper life 30 yrs ... fibre life 50 yrs

Quote:

But Telstra is a crap company. They once tried to disconnect my phone because I paid the account by cheque and they said they took 14 days to process a cheque. their incompetence is not my problem. But likewise I don't believe Telstra takes 14 days to process EVERYONES payment.

But you accept they are a crap company and wish to build a broadband network or their poorly supported infrastructure

I am simply averse to paying $90B for a network we don't need instead of a $26B one that will work and be delivered in our actual lifetimes. It's called living within your means.

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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

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longweekend58

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Re: NBN progress?
Reply #1809 - Apr 28^th, 2014 at 5:58pm

Cliff48 wrote on Apr 28^th, 2014 at 5:22pm:

There seems to be a misconception between the ftth/fttn adversaries.

People wishing for a ftth solution are not requesting superfast broadband for no extra cost.

In other countries it costs around $5000 to upgrade a fttn to ftth connection. That's way out of my league.

But a ftth from day one will be a cost of a few hundred dollars, not thousands.

Even with ftth installed, I would still have to pay extra to receive the increased bandwidth. That would not be free. It would just mean that to receive the increase would be bandwidth usage - not a $5000 surcharge on top.

Making the extra bandwidth accessible is where NBNco would recoup the costs. Instead, the are proposing a system that no one will want to access.

you seem to be forgetting the extra SIXTY BILLION DOLLARS a FTTH network would cost or around $6000 per home. if you want and need fibre pay for it yourself I don't want to.

anyhow the decision has already been made. it is FTTn so just get on with it.

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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

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Cliff48

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Re: NBN progress?
Reply #1810 - Apr 28^th, 2014 at 6:03pm

longweekend58 wrote on Apr 28^th, 2014 at 5:58pm:

Cliff48 wrote on Apr 28^th, 2014 at 5:22pm:

There seems to be a misconception between the ftth/fttn adversaries.

People wishing for a ftth solution are not requesting superfast broadband for no extra cost.

In other countries it costs around $5000 to upgrade a fttn to ftth connection. That's way out of my league.

But a ftth from day one will be a cost of a few hundred dollars, not thousands.

Even with ftth installed, I would still have to pay extra to receive the increased bandwidth. That would not be free. It would just mean that to receive the increase would be bandwidth usage - not a $5000 surcharge on top.

Making the extra bandwidth accessible is where NBNco would recoup the costs. Instead, the are proposing a system that no one will want to access.

you seem to be forgetting the extra SIXTY BILLION DOLLARS a FTTH network would cost or around $6000 per home. if you want and need fibre pay for it yourself I don't want to.

anyhow the decision has already been made. it is FTTn so just get on with it.

This is the problem - rubbery figures and NBN becoming a political football - instead of what is in the best interests of the nation.

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Grendel

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Re: NBN progress?
Reply #1811 - Apr 28^th, 2014 at 6:04pm

St George of the Garden wrote on Apr 28^th, 2014 at 5:08pm:

The point is, roach, running FTTN over the rotten copper does not remove any the problems with the copper and gives minimum speed increase. Whether or not you lose voice or data after rain a lot of people do—I always had trouble with the EFTPOS machine in the shop after substantial rain. Have a look at Whirlpool.

So $91Bn for a minor speed bump and no remediation of all the problems the copper has. Crap idea!

Rotten copper? really? And you were doing so well. I told you if you don't like corode use oxidise.
So you had problem with a site or a washing machine or a fridge after rain, and so everyone has the same problem after rain with their phone or internet... hmmmm now that is interesting Cheesy

Don't you think that is as crazy as it sounds?

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Grendel

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Re: NBN progress?
Reply #1812 - Apr 28^th, 2014 at 6:07pm

St George of the Garden wrote on Apr 28^th, 2014 at 5:31pm:

But with FTTH there is no $29.95 a month line rental and call costs will also be less. FTTH ends up costing the same or a bit less than ADSL + line rental + call costs.

And never forget the increase in UPload speed and what that makes possible.

Pardon?
Really?
You got that in writing somewhere?
I'm sorry but have you got the official billing plan for all access in your back pocket or what?

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longweekend58

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Re: NBN progress?
Reply #1813 - Apr 28^th, 2014 at 6:14pm

Cliff48 wrote on Apr 28^th, 2014 at 5:42pm:

St George of the Garden wrote on Apr 28^th, 2014 at 5:31pm:

But with FTTH there is no $29.95 a month line rental and call costs will also be less. FTTH ends up costing the same or a bit less than ADSL + line rental + call costs.

And never forget the increase in UPload speed and what that makes possible.

To be honest, if was connected to fibre and still had to pay my $30/month connection charge - thats fine. Always happy to pay for a more reliable service.

actually you aren't at all. you are happy to have access to a network paid for by taxpayers - not you.

what if your FTTH that you so want made internet fees DOUBLE what they are now. Still be happy? Most analyses of the NBNs pricing promises say they cannot possibly make money anywhere need the prices they are charging and this is not helped by the FACT it was going to cost double what originally estimated.

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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

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St George of the Garden

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Re: NBN progress?
Reply #1814 - Apr 28^th, 2014 at 6:28pm

longweekend58 wrote on Apr 28^th, 2014 at 5:56pm:

Cliff48 wrote on Apr 28^th, 2014 at 4:58pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Apr 28^th, 2014 at 4:47pm:

[quote author=Cliff48 link=1379382456/1797#1797 date=1398666932]Until there is an audit of the state of the copper in the network we can only go by the stories around us and our own experiences.

In my case, when it rains I am lucky to be able to make a phone call ... its like calling Kellogs and just getting 'Snap Crackle Pop'. Maintaining an internet connection for more 5 minutes is impossible.

Calling Telstra is a waste of time. At the time of the problem they receive so many calls they cant schedule a technician for days. When the techo eventually arrives the rain has long since stopped, the pits have dried out and he informs me that there is no problem with my connection.

To add insult to injury, the techo informs me that if I report the problem again I will be charged for a 'false call out' - around $300.

Quote:

the absence of an audit doesn't automatically grant credence to your stories or allow you to extrapolate.

It also doesnt allow you to refute/deny the claims of the stories of many. (Do you ever read forums.whirlpool?)

Quote:

I am sure you have a problem. I am equally sure I don't and no one I know does either. Yes, there is a maintenance problem apparently but your belief that fibre will fix all that is amusing. it will break down too as will all the equipment along that line.

Of course fibre will break down too. But current estimates is that fibre and copper at the same cost - copper life 30 yrs ... fibre life 50 yrs

Quote:

But Telstra is a crap company. They once tried to disconnect my phone because I paid the account by cheque and they said they took 14 days to process a cheque. their incompetence is not my problem. But likewise I don't believe Telstra takes 14 days to process EVERYONES payment.

But you accept they are a crap company and wish to build a broadband network or their poorly supported infrastructure

I am simply averse to paying $90B for a network we don't need instead of a $26B one that will work and be delivered in our actual lifetimes. It's called living within your means.

The $90Bn one is FTTN! FTTH could cost as little as $26Bn with the improved pit & pipe remediation technology! FTTN for $26Bn be buggered—the Strategic Review put the cost of Macolm’s Terrible Muddle at $43Bn before buying, auditing and remediating the copper.

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