Australian Politics Forum - spineless apologetics

freediver

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Re: spineless apologetics
Reply #150 - Oct 4^th, 2013 at 12:26pm

Quote:

"On the surface" does not mean "yes I agree with you" - it means there's much more to it than that.

It means you cannot disagree with me about what Brian posted. The closest you can come to disagreeing with me is to find something completely different that Brian said, add a bit of your own spin to toughen it up, and talk about that instead.

Here it is again for you:

Brian Ross wrote on Sep 15^th, 2013 at 5:39pm:

Quote:

Is this the Islam you are so keen to defend with your "fair deal" nonsense, what about those who no longer believe in that bullshit barfed up by a 7th century desert bandit do they deserve a fair deal like article 18 of the Universal declaration of human rights?
Quote:

7 nations where atheism is punishable by death.
All 7 establish Islam as the state religion.
Pakistan,Saudi Arabia,Iran,Afghanistan,Sudan,Mauritania and the Maldives
www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/worldviews/wp/2012/12/10/the-seven-countries-where-...

I make no excuses for those nations and their laws, BV. I merely recognise that it is their right to create and unfortunately impose those punishments. It is terrible but I also recognise I have no right or ability to criticise them. I am neither a member of their religion or a citizen of any of those nations.

Pretty hard to find spine in that eh?

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Brian Ross

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Re: spineless apologetics
Reply #151 - Oct 4^th, 2013 at 3:53pm

Still trying to obscure the fact that you challenged me to find "one Muslims' who didn't believe that statement was "spineless" and then Gandalf who is by his own acknowledgement a Muslim spoke up, saying he did not believe I was "spineless", FD?

Still squirming in order to avoid having to apologise?

How smacking spineless! Roll Eyes

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freediver

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Re: spineless apologetics
Reply #152 - Oct 4^th, 2013 at 4:21pm

Quote:

Still trying to obscure the fact that you challenged me to find "one Muslims' who didn't believe that statement was "spineless" and then Gandalf who is by his own acknowledgement a Muslim spoke up, saying he did not believe I was "spineless", FD?

You mean when he said this?

polite_gandalf wrote on Sep 25^th, 2013 at 8:22am:

freediver wrote on Sep 24^th, 2013 at 8:41am:

This is what I expected you to consider spineless:

On the surface, yes.

I am hardly obscuring it. If anything I am prodding Gandalf to elaborate.

11 pages in, and Brian still hasn't clarified the basics about this:

freediver wrote on Oct 2^nd, 2013 at 4:42pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Oct 2^nd, 2013 at 1:46pm:

freediver wrote on Oct 2^nd, 2013 at 10:18am:

Brian did give us a very brief window into what he actually thinks:

http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1379233325

You may not be very comfortable with it, but it is the beginning of an argument.

Only with those that deliberately refuse to accept the context in which the statement was made.

So, FD, you apologised yet for finding a single Muslim who disagree with your view of me or are you still squirming? Roll Eyes

In what sense have I refused to accept the context? Are you suggesting there is something about the context that means it is no longer spineless apologetics? If so you will have to explain it for us.

You are yet to find a single Muslim (or even a human) who does not consider it spineless apologetics. That is what I suggested you cannot do, and so far you have been incapable. You are usually keen to admit what you are incapable of.

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Brian Ross

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Re: spineless apologetics
Reply #153 - Oct 5^th, 2013 at 9:11am

*YAWN*, I don't have to define anything, FD. The statement, in context means what it means. I am neither a citizen of or a member of their religion or those nations. Therefore I have no right to change or criticise either the religion or the nations concerned. It is not a difficult proposition to grasp, FD - if you were looking at it honestly.

Tell, do you believe a Muslim in Saudi Arabia has a right to criticise either Christianity or say, Australia? Really? I doubt it, knowing your preference for bigotry. Roll Eyes

I really don't understand you, FD. You will stand up for the rights of Indigenous Australians yet you will use the same language as the racists use against them, to attack Muslims. You really are inconsistent and dare I suggest it, a hypocrite? Roll Eyes

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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 49963 At my desk.	Re: spineless apologetics Reply #154 - Oct 5^th, 2013 at 9:15am Quote: I am neither a citizen of or a member of their religion or those nations. Therefore I have no right to change or criticise either the religion or the nations concerned. Would you generalise this to all nations and religions, or does it only apply to Muslims chopping people's heads off?
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polite_gandalf

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Re: spineless apologetics
Reply #155 - Oct 5^th, 2013 at 9:48am

Quote:

I bend over in no direction, FD. What I want to see is a fair deal for Muslims and their religion, not bigotry and hatred directed to them because of unreasoning fear and prejudice. I refuse to accept your viewpoint and I suspect you find that annoying. If a Muslim breaks the law or does something immoral, then by all means condemn them but stop with the effort to try and use collective guilt to condemn all Muslims in the way you do.

http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1379120057/20#20

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
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Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 49963 At my desk.	Re: spineless apologetics Reply #156 - Oct 5^th, 2013 at 9:56am Hey! Look over there!
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Karnal Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 97788	Re: spineless apologetics Reply #157 - Oct 5^th, 2013 at 10:30am Where? What is it? Is it a bomb? Don’t panic, friends. Insh’allah, we will have it extinguished in no time.
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Brian Ross

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Re: spineless apologetics
Reply #158 - Oct 5^th, 2013 at 12:45pm

freediver wrote on Oct 5^th, 2013 at 9:15am:

Quote:

I am neither a citizen of or a member of their religion or those nations. Therefore I have no right to change or criticise either the religion or the nations concerned.

Would you generalise this to all nations and religions, or does it only apply to Muslims chopping people's heads off?

FD, generally I don't jump onboard the criticism bandwagon for the sake of it and I recognise that no matter what I say, any change that comes will not come from outside from my criticism and in particular your criticism. Indeed, your criticism isn't made in a constructive way, now is it, FD? Your criticism is deeply rooted in your bigotry and your hyprocrisy. There is no consistency in your attitudes.

Why is it bad for someone to unfairly criticise Indigenous Australians in your opinion yet perfectly OK for you to unfairly criticise Australian Muslims in similar terms?

This though, is distracting from the main point. You owe me an apology. One Muslims did speak up and disagree with you. Will you ever show enough backbone and actually admit you were wrong? Roll Eyes

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freediver

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Re: spineless apologetics
Reply #159 - Oct 5^th, 2013 at 12:52pm

What I say is consistent. You are just incapable of seeing it. Being right or wrong means nothing at all to you. All that matters is some demented concept of fairness that compels you to defend a person who would chop a man's head off for thinking the wrong thoughts. I didn't make those comments about aborigines to be fair or because I think any criticism of Aborigines must be balanced by some empty headed defense of them. I spoke up because what was being said was wrong.

You didn't answer the question Brian.

Quote:

I am neither a citizen of or a member of their religion or those nations. Therefore I have no right to change or criticise either the religion or the nations concerned.

Would you generalise this to all nations and religions, or does it only apply to Muslims chopping people's heads off?

And Gandalf does think that what you said is spineless. Of course, he cannot bring himself to speak plainly on the issue (I hope you appreciate the irony) and is instead doing his best to pretend I am asking about some other comment you made.

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« Last Edit: Oct 5^th, 2013 at 1:00pm by freediver »

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Brian Ross

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Re: spineless apologetics
Reply #160 - Oct 5^th, 2013 at 1:15pm

freediver wrote on Oct 5^th, 2013 at 12:52pm:

What I say is consistent. You are just incapable of seeing it. Being right or wrong means nothing at all to you. All that matters is some demented concept of fairness that compels you to defend a person who would chop a man's head off for thinking the wrong thoughts.

Care to provide evidence of where I have defended the decapitation of anybody, FD?

Stop erecting strawmen. Roll Eyes

When you talk truthfully about what I have said, rather than what words you try and put into my mouth, we might be able to have a conversation, FD.

Until then, this is just about you squirming away from your apology. Roll Eyes

Now we add "hypocrite" to "bigot". Roll Eyes

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Soren

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Re: spineless apologetics
Reply #161 - Oct 5^th, 2013 at 1:29pm

Brian Ross wrote on Oct 5^th, 2013 at 1:15pm:

Care to provide evidence of where I have defended the decapitation of anybody, FD?

You just can't bring yourself to condemning it.

Brian Ross wrote on Sep 15^th, 2013 at 5:39pm:

I make no excuses for those nations and their laws, BV. I merely recognise that it is their right to create and unfortunately impose those punishments.

It is terrible but I also recognise I have no right or ability to criticise them.

I am neither a member of their religion or a citizen of any of those nations.

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Brian Ross Gold Member Offline Representative of me Posts: 43614	Re: spineless apologetics Reply #162 - Oct 5^th, 2013 at 4:15pm freediver wrote on Oct 5^th, 2013 at 9:56am: Hey! Look over there! You're not very adept, are you, FD? So, when will you grow a spine and admit you were wrong?
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Brian Ross

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Re: spineless apologetics
Reply #163 - Oct 5^th, 2013 at 4:20pm

Soren wrote on Oct 5^th, 2013 at 1:29pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Oct 5^th, 2013 at 1:15pm:

Care to provide evidence of where I have defended the decapitation of anybody, FD?

You just can't bring yourself to condemning it.

Wrong, Soren.

Provide a specific example of decapitation and I'll condemn it and the perpetrators but I won't condemn every Muslim for the acts of a tiny minority which is what you do in post after post, like the bigot you truly are. Roll Eyes

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Soren

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Re: spineless apologetics
Reply #164 - Oct 6^th, 2013 at 12:16am

Brian Ross wrote on Oct 5^th, 2013 at 4:20pm:

Soren wrote on Oct 5^th, 2013 at 1:29pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Oct 5^th, 2013 at 1:15pm:

Care to provide evidence of where I have defended the decapitation of anybody, FD?

You just can't bring yourself to condemning it.

Wrong, Soren.

Provide a specific example of decapitation and I'll condemn it and the perpetrators but I won't condemn every Muslim for the acts of a tiny minority which is what you do in post after post, like the bigot you truly are. Roll Eyes

So no condemnation of decapitation as such in this day and age, you want specifics, lest you generalise, eh?

Pathetic.

And I don't condemn every Muslims. Only the ones that are motivated by Islam to set themselves against everyone who doesn't share their beliefs.

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