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NSW Bill Forcing Toxic Fluoride Down Your Neck (Read 3214 times)
rabbitoh07
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Re: NSW Bill Forcing Toxic Fluoride Down Your Neck
Reply #30 - Sep 12th, 2013 at 6:40pm
 
PZ547 wrote on Sep 12th, 2013 at 1:18pm:
rabbitoh07 wrote on Sep 12th, 2013 at 12:58pm:
Don't be silly.  Fluoridation provides good public health outcomes.
Ranting in capital letters and quoting nut bags does not change this.  It only makes you look like a dill.





Really ?

So Israeli scientists and the Israeli government are wrong, in your opinion ?


Yes.  In my opinion the Israeli government is wrong.
But not just my opinion - the opinion of the CDC, WHO, US Surgeon General, Australian Dental Association - and virtually every other public health and dental organisation on the planet:

The use of fluorides in dentistry is one of the most important ways of preventing dental caries and has the support of all peak public health and dental authorities. International bodies such as the US-based Centers for Disease Control and Prevention [CDC], the World Health Organisation [WHO] and the US Surgeon General actively promote water fluoridation. The CDC placed water fluoridation in the top ten public health achievements of the 20th Century. Similarly, scientific bodies in Australia, recognised public health groups and professional organisations support water fluoridation. Community water fluoridation continues to be the most cost-effective, equitable and safe means to provide protection from tooth decay and has been successfully utilised in Australia for over 50 years. The effect of water fluoridation is predominantly topical, with some systemic influence in children.
http://www.ada.org.au/app_cmslib/media/lib/0703/m51011_v1_fluorideuse2.pdf

The Israeli government however seems to have been influenced by some religous nutjobs who also want to ban polio vaccine:

Water Fluoridation and Vaccinations are contrary to Torah principles
  water fluoridation and vaccinations violate the Torah principles of kashrut, pekuach nefesh, and ushmartem es nafshoseichem (taking proper care of one's health) and therefore ought to be considered as treif and assur.....Water fluoridation was first put into use by the Nazis, ....
http://www.jewcology.com/content/view/Water-Fluoridation-and-Vaccinations-are-co...

I know that our new PM may disagree - but religous zealots probably should not influence public policy.
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adelcrow
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Re: NSW Bill Forcing Toxic Fluoride Down Your Neck
Reply #31 - Sep 12th, 2013 at 6:46pm
 
Anti Fluoride nuts are just that...NUTS  Cheesy
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Go the Bunnies
 
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rabbitoh07
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Re: NSW Bill Forcing Toxic Fluoride Down Your Neck
Reply #32 - Sep 12th, 2013 at 6:48pm
 
adelcrow wrote on Sep 12th, 2013 at 6:46pm:
Anti Fluoride nuts are just that...NUTS  Cheesy

But Nazi Germany used fluoride in water.

Therefore - YOU are responsible for the deaths of 6 million Jews.

QED
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muso
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Re: NSW Bill Forcing Toxic Fluoride Down Your Neck
Reply #33 - Sep 12th, 2013 at 7:09pm
 
rabbitoh07 wrote on Sep 12th, 2013 at 6:29pm:
Gay Communist Muslim terrorists are behind it.  It's so obvious.


Not forgetting Al Gore.  Wink
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muso
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Re: NSW Bill Forcing Toxic Fluoride Down Your Neck
Reply #34 - Sep 12th, 2013 at 7:24pm
 
Vuk11 wrote on Sep 12th, 2013 at 4:15pm:
The problem I see is, if sodium fluoride is absorbed, half flushed out and NOT turned into calcium fluoride, then that is a build up of sodium fluoride, which would be harmful over time.


Well it all depends on the mobility. I Can't find a web reference, but the way it goes is that bones are by and large composed of hydroxyapatite, which is a hydrated calcium phosphate. Fluoride forms an insoluble calcium salt which is effectively a solid solution of calcium phosphate and calcium fluoride, often referred to as calcium fluorophosphate. It is immobilised in that form. A certain amount of fluoride is beneficial. It strengthens the bones. Too much fluoride has the opposite effect.

Fluoride is a naturally occurring substance, and levels of up to 4ppm can occur naturally, especially in dry climates where there is a significant evaporation factor.

Fluoridation levels in Australia vary significantly from 0.3ppm or less up to 0.7ppm.

http://www.adelaide.edu.au/oral-health-promotion/resources/prof/htm_files/fluori...
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longweekend58
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Re: NSW Bill Forcing Toxic Fluoride Down Your Neck
Reply #35 - Sep 12th, 2013 at 7:32pm
 
You can often tell the validity of a particular argument but the 'company' it keeps. the anti-flouride groups are also anti-vaccination, frequently anti-government and homeschoolers etc etc.

what you don't find is a PhD or a research group that makes the anti-fluoride claims.  ALL chemicals (including water, oxygen etc) are essentially toxic to humans in high enough quantities.
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Vuk11
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Re: NSW Bill Forcing Toxic Fluoride Down Your Neck
Reply #36 - Sep 12th, 2013 at 8:39pm
 
muso wrote on Sep 12th, 2013 at 7:24pm:
Vuk11 wrote on Sep 12th, 2013 at 4:15pm:
The problem I see is, if sodium fluoride is absorbed, half flushed out and NOT turned into calcium fluoride, then that is a build up of sodium fluoride, which would be harmful over time.


Well it all depends on the mobility. I Can't find a web reference, but the way it goes is that bones are by and large composed of hydroxyapatite, which is a hydrated calcium phosphate. Fluoride forms an insoluble calcium salt which is effectively a solid solution of calcium phosphate and calcium fluoride, often referred to as calcium fluorophosphate. It is immobilised in that form. A certain amount of fluoride is beneficial. It strengthens the bones. Too much fluoride has the opposite effect.

Fluoride is a naturally occurring substance, and levels of up to 4ppm can occur naturally, especially in dry climates where there is a significant evaporation factor.

Fluoridation levels in Australia vary significantly from 0.3ppm or less up to 0.7ppm.



Aren't the naturally occurring fluoride levels calcium fluoride from the rocks? Which makes it harmless, compared to the sodium fluoride in water fluoridation?
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it_is_the_light
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Re: NSW Bill Forcing Toxic Fluoride Down Your Neck
Reply #37 - Sep 12th, 2013 at 9:43pm
 
muso wrote on Sep 12th, 2013 at 1:41pm:
Anti-fluoridation sites are based on false premises. Try to find  one single sane practising dentist who disagrees with it.


if any dentist disagrees they lose their government

funding and accreditation..

further,

http://www.globalresearch.ca/obama-approves-raising-permissible-levels-of-nuclea...

Obama Approves Raising Permissible Levels of Nuclear Radiation in Drinking Water. Civilian Cancer Deaths Expected to Skyrocket

Rollback in Nuclear Radiation Cleanup

http://www.infowars.com/minnesota-lawmakers-ban-formaldehyde-in-childrens-produc...

Minnesota lawmakers ban formaldehyde in children’s products but allow the neurotoxic chemical in vaccines and diet soda



calcium fluoride good yes

sodium fluoride is more toxic than lead and

thats what is pumped into the water supply

fear not..all is well as darkness is now visible

namaste

- : )
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muso
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Re: NSW Bill Forcing Toxic Fluoride Down Your Neck
Reply #38 - Sep 12th, 2013 at 9:55pm
 
Vuk11 wrote on Sep 12th, 2013 at 8:39pm:
Aren't the naturally occurring fluoride levels calcium fluoride from the rocks? Which makes it harmless, compared to the sodium fluoride in water fluoridation?


Fluoride ions in water are Fluoride ions regardless of the source, but it's a good question. Calcium Fluoride (Fluorite) is extremely insoluble. It has a solubility product of       3.45E-11.  Fluoride is more soluble as a fluorosilicate, and some fluorosilicates occur naturally. Generally (this is from memory) the Fluoride is kept in solution at the ppm level as a result of slightly soluble silicates. Silica is actually an dehydrated weak acid, and it's more soluble in basic solutions (or hot solutions). 

Cryolite (Sodium Aluminium fluoride) is another naturally occurring mineral.

Fluoride is naturally present in seawater at around 1.5ppm.

I hope that explains things. As Paracelsus said,

All things are poison, and nothing is without poison; only the dose permits something not to be poisonous.
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Vuk11
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Re: NSW Bill Forcing Toxic Fluoride Down Your Neck
Reply #39 - Sep 12th, 2013 at 10:19pm
 
muso wrote on Sep 12th, 2013 at 9:55pm:
Vuk11 wrote on Sep 12th, 2013 at 8:39pm:
Aren't the naturally occurring fluoride levels calcium fluoride from the rocks? Which makes it harmless, compared to the sodium fluoride in water fluoridation?


Fluoride ions in water are Fluoride ions regardless of the source, but it's a good question. Calcium Fluoride (Fluorite) is extremely insoluble. It has a solubility product of       3.45E-11, so Calcium Fluorite on its own would result in a Fluoride solution of the order of 0.003 ppm.  Fluoride is more soluble as a fluorosilicate, and some fluorosilicates occur naturally. Generally (this is from memory) the Fluoride is kept in solution at the ppm level as a result of slightly soluble silicates. Silica is actually an dehydrated weak acid, and it's more soluble in basic solutions (or hot solutions). 

Cryolite (Sodium Aluminium fluoride) is another naturally occurring mineral.

Fluoride is naturally present in seawater at around 1.5ppm.

I hope that explains things. As Paracelsus said,

All things are poison, and nothing is without poison; only the dose permits something not to be poisonous.

Sweet thanks for that.

That still just leaves the last two questions in layman terms.

Would the fluoride ions build up in the body over time, or does it in a way sort of turn harmless? (like you mentioned before)Because it still shows that only half is flushed out in urine the rest accumulates. So is it a dangerous accumulation?

Also does the 1994 recommendation of 0.5-1mg/L. contradict with the Thyroid problems at "0.05–0.13 mg/kg/day when iodine intake was adequate and 0.01–0.03 mg/kg/day when iodine intake was inadequate." Please refer to my quick calculation of a 70kg person.

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rabbitoh07
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Re: NSW Bill Forcing Toxic Fluoride Down Your Neck
Reply #40 - Sep 12th, 2013 at 11:26pm
 
longweekend58 wrote on Sep 12th, 2013 at 7:32pm:
You can often tell the validity of a particular argument but the 'company' it keeps. the anti-flouride groups are also anti-vaccination, frequently anti-government and homeschoolers etc etc.

what you don't find is a PhD or a research group that makes the anti-fluoride claims.  ALL chemicals (including water, oxygen etc) are essentially toxic to humans in high enough quantities.

Yes.  It is just like climate change deniers.

What you don't find is a PhD or a research group that makes the climate change denial claims.

The climate change deniers are usually the same as the anti-flouride groups, the anti-vaccination, frequently, anti-government and homeschoolers etc etc.

The "Oregon Petition" people are big fans of home schooling:
http://www.oism.org/s32p28.htm

Anti-science morons.

THe internet is a wonderful thing - but it really does give oxygen to these anti fluoride, AGW denier morons.
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John Smith
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Re: NSW Bill Forcing Toxic Fluoride Down Your Neck
Reply #41 - Sep 12th, 2013 at 11:50pm
 
it_is_the_light wrote on Sep 12th, 2013 at 9:43pm:

if any dentist disagrees they lose their government

funding and accreditation..


- : )


What govt. funding do dentists receive?
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Our esteemed leader:
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rabbitoh07
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Re: NSW Bill Forcing Toxic Fluoride Down Your Neck
Reply #42 - Sep 12th, 2013 at 11:53pm
 
John Smith wrote on Sep 12th, 2013 at 11:50pm:
it_is_the_light wrote on Sep 12th, 2013 at 9:43pm:

if any dentist disagrees they lose their government

funding and accreditation..


- : )


What govt. funding do dentists receive?

THey get a brown paper bag marked "Fluoride Money" stuffed full of cash every week.

It is a legacy from Nazi Germany.

That is why they can't show their faces.
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Sir Spot of Borg
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Re: NSW Bill Forcing Toxic Fluoride Down Your Neck
Reply #43 - Sep 13th, 2013 at 4:56am
 
muso wrote on Sep 12th, 2013 at 1:41pm:
Anti-fluoridation sites are based on false premises. Try to find  one single sane practising dentist who disagrees with it.


Even if it was good for your teeth - thats no reason to drink it! Do you eat toothpaste? In fact toothpaste used to have a warning on it NOT to eat it . . . .  dunno if the warnings are still there. . .

SOB

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it_is_the_light
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Re: NSW Bill Forcing Toxic Fluoride Down Your Neck
Reply #44 - Sep 13th, 2013 at 6:51am
 
John Smith wrote on Sep 12th, 2013 at 11:50pm:
it_is_the_light wrote on Sep 12th, 2013 at 9:43pm:

if any dentist disagrees they lose their government

funding and accreditation..


- : )


What govt. funding do dentists receive?


http://www.medicareaustralia.gov.au/provider/incentives/pip/payment-formula/inde...

Practice Incentives Program (PIP) payments and calculations
On this page
Practice payments
Calculation of payments
Calculating the SWPE value
When payments are made
Appealing a Medicare Australia decision
PIP Guidelines
More information on the Practice Incentives Program Guidelines
Practice payments
The majority of payments made through the PIP are made to practices and focus on those aspects of general practice that contribute to quality care.
If a practice's PIP application is successful, the practice will receive its initial PIP payment in the first payment quarter after approval. The practice will receive subsequent quarterly payments, providing it continues to meet the eligibility criteria. Payments are made in February, May, August and November.
Medicare Australia will automatically calculate entitlements for payments based on information received from the practice. This means it is important to inform Medicare Australia of any changes in practice arrangements (more information is provided in Practice Changes).
Payments are made by Electronic Funds Transfer (EFT).
Practices can spend their payment as they want, though the usual taxation rules apply. The PIP payment is intended to support the practice in purchasing additional equipment, upgrading its facilities or offering additional remuneration to doctors working at the practice. If a practice chooses to use the payment as an additional source of income for its doctors, the Australian Government strongly encourages its equitable organisation to distribute among doctors working at the practice. However, the Australian Government cannot be responsible for the business arrangements of individual practices.
Incentives      Aspect or activity      Payment amount
Quality stream
Quality Prescribing      Practice participation in quality use of medicines programs endorsed by the National Prescribing Service. Paid annually in May.      $1 per SWPE
Diabetes Incentive      Sign-On Payment: one-off payment for notifying the Australian Government that the practice uses a diabetes register and recall/reminder system.      $1 per SWPE
Outcomes Payment: payment to practices that complete an annual cycle of care for a target proportion of their patients with diabetes.      $20 per HbA1c SWPE annually
Service Incentive Payment: payment for each annual cycle of care for a patient with diabetes, payable once per year per patient.      $40 per patient per annum
Cervical Screening
Incentive      Sign-on Payment: one-off payment to practices that engage with the state/territory cervical screening registers.      $0.25 per SWPE
Outcomes Payment: payment to practices where a specified proportion of women aged between 20 and 69 years have been screened in the last 30 months.      $3 per female WPE† aged between 20 and 69.
Service Incentive Payment: payment to practitioners for screening women between 20 and 69 years who have not had a cervical smear within the last four years.      $35 per patient per annum
Asthma Incentive
     Sign-on Payment: one-off payment to practices that implement a cycle of care for patients with moderate to severe asthma.      $0.25 per SWPE
Service Incentive Payment: payment to practitioners who complete an asthma cycle of care for patients with moderate to severe asthma, payable once per year per patient.      $100 per patient per annum
Indigenous Health Incentive
     Sign-on Payment: one-off payment to practices that agree to undertake specified activities to improve the provision of care to their Aboriginal and/or Torres Strait Islander patients with a chronic disease.      $1000 per practice
Patient Registration Payment: A payment to practices for each Aboriginal and/or Torres Strait Islander patient aged 15 years and over, registered with the practice for chronic disease management.      $250 per eligible patient per calendar year
Outcomes Payment Tier 1: Payment to practices for each registered patient for whom a target level of care is provided by the practice in a calendar year.      Tier 1: $100 per eligible patient per calendar year
Outcomes Payment Tier 2: Payment to practices for providing the majority of care for a registered patient in a calendar year.      Tier 2: $150 per eligible patient per calendar year
Capacity stream
eHealth Incentive
     The PIP eHealth Incentive has three components. Practices must meet the requirements of each of component to qualify for payments through this incentive.      $6.50 per SWPE capped at $12 500 per practice, per quarter
After Hours Incentive      Tier 1— The practice makes sure that all regular practice patients have access to 24 hour care from a GP, seven days a week, which may be through formalised cooperative arrangements and must include out of hours visits (at home, in residential aged care facilities and in hospitals), where safe and reasonable.      $2 per SWPE annually
Tier 2—Practice GPs must provide the minimum level of after hours cover (dependent on practice size) for all regular practice patients. At all other times, practice patients must have access to after hours care through formalised cooperative arrangements.
Practices with a SWPE* value of 2000 or less
Must provide their practice patients with ...
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ॐ May Much LOVE and CHRISTS LIGHT be upon and within us all.... namasté ▲ - : )  ╰დ╮ॐ╭დ╯
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