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NSW Bill Forcing Toxic Fluoride Down Your Neck (Read 3224 times)
muso
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Re: NSW Bill Forcing Toxic Fluoride Down Your Neck
Reply #15 - Sep 12th, 2013 at 2:30pm
 
Vuk11 wrote on Sep 12th, 2013 at 2:10pm:
Why should we be forced to ingest a chemical against our own will? 


You mean like Chlorine? Are you against chlorination too?
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PZ547
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Re: NSW Bill Forcing Toxic Fluoride Down Your Neck
Reply #16 - Sep 12th, 2013 at 2:39pm
 
muso wrote on Sep 12th, 2013 at 2:30pm:
Vuk11 wrote on Sep 12th, 2013 at 2:10pm:
Why should we be forced to ingest a chemical against our own will? 


You mean like Chlorine? Are you against chlorination too?




Muso -- if you're in favour of fluoride or any one of the toxins added to public water supplies -- and if you're in favour of the entire toxic cocktail known these days as 'drinking water' ------------- then the discussion is no longer of concern to you

is it ?


Unless, of course, you for some reason wish others to continue drinking toxins

in which case, you'd want to persuade people to ignore prestigious medical bibles such as The Lancet when they warn against fluoride

and you'd pooh-pooh the Israeli and numerous other governments' decisions to protect their population against fluoride


So -- if you are happy to consume fluoride

---- if you are happy for your kids to consume fluoride

--- if you think it's great


WHY are you so insistent that people listen to you -- instead of tens of thousands of physicians, dentists, scientists, researchers, government health bodies and governments themselves ?
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Vuk11
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Re: NSW Bill Forcing Toxic Fluoride Down Your Neck
Reply #17 - Sep 12th, 2013 at 2:40pm
 
I'm against the chemical tampering of water in anyway.
No matter how beneficial, it should remain as pure as possible. It is the most important thing we ingest.

Though I haven't heard any arguments against water chlorination, as it actually does remove diseases. Fluoride on the other hand, people are still debating whether it has positive effects or not and also on the negative effects of ingestion.

The jury is still out on fluoride.
It is not out for chlorination, though I'm not saying I wouldn't consider it if someone were to show me evidence against it.
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PZ547
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Re: NSW Bill Forcing Toxic Fluoride Down Your Neck
Reply #18 - Sep 12th, 2013 at 2:57pm
 
.

So let's take a look at Israel as a way of gauging if it's careless about its own safety and security

Vanunu was imprisoned for many years for exposing Dimona, Israel's secret nuclear facility

Israel hasn't stopped for a second since 1948 as far as increasing its territories is concerned

Israel looks after Number One, first, second, third

Israel ignores the United Nations and does just as it pleases

Isreal ejects blacks, muslims and anyone else it doesn't like or want

Israelis speak plainly against refugees, asylum seekers, migrants.  Israelis say, 'Get out !'.  And Israeli politicians state outright they don't want jews involved in any way with non-jews, because jews want to preserve their homogeneity.  No concessions to politically correct speech in Israel  (in fact, I should move there and feel at home)

Israel has the world by the nose.  All politicians in all governments, worldwide, go out of their way to brown nose Israel


So when Israel puts something on the Urgent list --- such as banning fluoride entirely within the space of less than a year from the announcement -- I listen.  Makes sense to listen.  Israel after all, looks after Israel

But for those who don't believe Israel is reliable in its decision making -- you might listen to, for example, Sir David Attenborough when he states, with one foot in the grave and nothing much to fear, that 'humans are no longer evolving.  We're going backwards'

Or, those who have no faith in Israel or Sir David, or tens of thousands of researchers, doctors, dentists, scientists, etc. when they state fluoride to be a dangerous toxin with no health advantages, might want to peruse the primary-school exams set for kids in the US (or even here in Oz) 100 or even 50 years ago

Then, remembering that most of those kids attended school a few hours a day, a couple of times a week after getting up at 3 a.m. to milk the cows, toss the hay, collect the eggs, draw water from the well AND walk five or so miles to school (and back) -- those who choose to ignore Israel and most of the world's governments who've banned fluoride ... might want to try those primary school exams of a hundred years ago

and I'll bet they will emerge from that exercise with a new appreciation of just how dumb they are compared with overworked, overtired farm kids aged from say, 8 years old to maybe 10 years old

Those kids emerge as Einsteins compared with the average university students of today

Why?  Ask yourselves why

Then refer to government and science's warnings that in amongst ALL the serious health dangers of fluoride ---- it also damages the brain and makes people stupid


Ok.  So now most adults in the Western world acknowledge that they've been rendered stupid by fluoride

What they have to decide at that point is ---- do you want your kids to be stupid too ?

If so, keep flushing fluoride through their systems.  Ignore the warnings.  Switch on Dancing with the Stars and Big Brother and forget it

After all, the NSW government already believes you're all too stupid to care that they're legislating to make fluoride -- the Stupid Supplement -- mandatory
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muso
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Re: NSW Bill Forcing Toxic Fluoride Down Your Neck
Reply #19 - Sep 12th, 2013 at 3:05pm
 
Yes, you've definitely read all the propaganda.
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muso
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Re: NSW Bill Forcing Toxic Fluoride Down Your Neck
Reply #20 - Sep 12th, 2013 at 3:12pm
 
Vuk11 wrote on Sep 12th, 2013 at 2:40pm:
I'm against the chemical tampering of water in anyway.
No matter how beneficial, it should remain as pure as possible. It is the most important thing we ingest.

Though I haven't heard any arguments against water chlorination, as it actually does remove diseases. Fluoride on the other hand, people are still debating whether it has positive effects or not and also on the negative effects of ingestion.

The jury is still out on fluoride.
It is not out for chlorination, though I'm not saying I wouldn't consider it if someone were to show me evidence against it.


Fluoridation has been demonstrated time and time again to reduce caries.

Surprisingly there is slightly more risk of colon cancer from chlorination, but the flip side is that if you stopped chlorinating, people would drop in their thousands due to water borne diseases.

Nothing has zero risk, especially Chimp's water filter. They are an expensive gimmick. Some of them actually remove minerals from the water, which is a harmful thing to do. Most of them can't remove Fluoride. The ones that do, remove other useful minerals.

The latest gimmick is alkaline water.  It doesn't do any harm but has no benefit whatsoever.

If you want to know about Fluoride, ask your doctor or dentist.

Common Fluoride myths from Queensland Health:

http://www.health.qld.gov.au/fluoride/document/myth_fact_sheet.pdf
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Vuk11
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Re: NSW Bill Forcing Toxic Fluoride Down Your Neck
Reply #21 - Sep 12th, 2013 at 3:31pm
 
muso wrote on Sep 12th, 2013 at 3:12pm:
Vuk11 wrote on Sep 12th, 2013 at 2:40pm:
I'm against the chemical tampering of water in anyway.
No matter how beneficial, it should remain as pure as possible. It is the most important thing we ingest.

Though I haven't heard any arguments against water chlorination, as it actually does remove diseases. Fluoride on the other hand, people are still debating whether it has positive effects or not and also on the negative effects of ingestion.

The jury is still out on fluoride.
It is not out for chlorination, though I'm not saying I wouldn't consider it if someone were to show me evidence against it.


Fluoridation has been demonstrated time and time again to reduce caries.

Surprisingly there is slightly more risk of colon cancer from chlorination, but the flip side is that if you stopped chlorinating, people would drop in their thousands due to water borne diseases.

Nothing has zero risk, especially Chimp's water filter. They are an expensive gimmick. Some of them actually remove minerals from the water, which is a harmful thing to do. Most of them can't remove Fluoride. The ones that do, remove other useful minerals.

The latest gimmick is alkaline water.  It doesn't do any harm but has no benefit whatsoever.

If you want to know about Fluoride, ask your doctor or dentist.

Common Fluoride myths from Queensland Health:



I agree with what you said.

That website you posted doesn't included the effects on the thyroid. I'm assuming they agree with it?

Also I'll say it again, it's supposed to  soak into your teeth, not be ingested in your stomach/blood stream. Once fluoride is in your system, studies show that it is attracted to your bones and mainly to your pineal gland. Which is where the spiritualists freak out, because they worship the pineal gland.
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muso
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Re: NSW Bill Forcing Toxic Fluoride Down Your Neck
Reply #22 - Sep 12th, 2013 at 3:39pm
 
Hyperthyroidism can be caused by very high levels of Fluorine, something like 1000 times what is added to drinking water. 

Google Hyperthyroidism to find out the causes.  One of the causes is Iodine deficiency. It's quite common in Switzerland.

Chimp's water filter, if it actually removes Fluoride, will also remove Iodide.

This is a wine goblet made of calcium fluoride. (Fluorspar)
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Vuk11
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Re: NSW Bill Forcing Toxic Fluoride Down Your Neck
Reply #23 - Sep 12th, 2013 at 3:43pm
 
muso wrote on Sep 12th, 2013 at 3:39pm:
Hyperthyroidism can be caused by very high levels of Fluorine, something like 1000 times what is added to drinking water. 

Google Hyperthyroidism to find out the causes.  One of the causes is Iodine deficiency. It's quite common in Switzerland.

Chimp's water filter, if it actually removes Fluoride, will also remove Iodide.


Doesn't fluoride build up in the body over time? Instead of being flushed out?
Wouldn't that mean that over long term use it may approach that level?
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muso
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Re: NSW Bill Forcing Toxic Fluoride Down Your Neck
Reply #24 - Sep 12th, 2013 at 3:51pm
 
Vuk11 wrote on Sep 12th, 2013 at 3:43pm:
muso wrote on Sep 12th, 2013 at 3:39pm:
Hyperthyroidism can be caused by very high levels of Fluorine, something like 1000 times what is added to drinking water. 

Google Hyperthyroidism to find out the causes.  One of the causes is Iodine deficiency. It's quite common in Switzerland.

Chimp's water filter, if it actually removes Fluoride, will also remove Iodide.


Doesn't fluoride build up in the body over time? Instead of being flushed out?
Wouldn't that mean that over long term use it may approach that level?


Some of it bioaccumulates as calcium fluoride, which is harmless. The point is that people who live in areas that are high in fluoride don't appear to suffer any ill effects, despite the fact that it's present at levels up to 100 times that in fluoridated water.

The best source of information is the World Health Organisation.
http://whqlibdoc.who.int/ehc/WHO_EHC_227.pdf
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Vuk11
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Re: NSW Bill Forcing Toxic Fluoride Down Your Neck
Reply #25 - Sep 12th, 2013 at 4:15pm
 
Thanks for the sources it must be annoying having to be a forum library for people.
I know the feeling.

Though do you happen to have a source on sodium fluoride ingested in the body becoming calcium fluoride?

So far all I've found is that the body can only remove half of the sodium fluoride, then the rest is accumulated in the pineal gland, bones and teeth. That seems to suggest that it would become a calcium but I can't find a source actually saying that it goes from one to the other.

The studies that were done in high fluoride areas were on the effects of natural fluoride, which is yes calcium fluoride not sodium. So of course we know that type s harmless.

The problem I see is, if sodium fluoride is absorbed, half flushed out and NOT turned into calcium fluoride, then that is a build up of sodium fluoride, which would be harmful over time.
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Vuk11
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Re: NSW Bill Forcing Toxic Fluoride Down Your Neck
Reply #26 - Sep 12th, 2013 at 4:32pm
 
Just having a quick look on wikipedia for numbers.

Water fluoridation:
A 1994 World Health Organization expert committee suggested a level of fluoride from 0.5 to 1.0 mg/L (milligrams per litre), depending on climate.

Effects on the Thyroid:
Thyroid effects in humans were associated with fluoride levels 0.05–0.13 mg/kg/day when iodine intake was adequate and 0.01–0.03 mg/kg/day when iodine intake was inadequate.[15]:263 Its mechanisms and effects on the endocrine system remain unclear.

Correct me if I'm wrong in the following please.
Just going with the minimums for thyroid and maximum recommended for water(worse case)

.05mg/kg/day would require in someone weighing say 70kg,  3.5mg in one day if they had adequate Iodine intake.

If their Iodine intake was inadequate the minimum rate is .01mg/kg/day which again for someone weighing 70kg would be .7mg in one day?

Going off say 1mg/L of water of water fluoridation. As recommended by these guys.
That would mean 3.5 litres if your Iodine is adequate and less than one litre if it is inadequate.

Doesn't that seem a little too close?
Also if it isn't transformed into calcium fluoride, then that means each day this stuff is accumulating in your body....
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muso
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Re: NSW Bill Forcing Toxic Fluoride Down Your Neck
Reply #27 - Sep 12th, 2013 at 4:45pm
 
I'm impressed that you're actually thinking about the data. It's more than most people would do. Give me some time and I'll find some sources.

The trouble is that a lot of this comes from training that I've done with Emergency Services since 1992. I often have to Google to find what I already know to get the details spot on.

The trouble with Google is that you get so many advocacy blogs that it's not funny.

Iodine deficiency in itself causes hyperthyroidism, and by the way, it's not a serious condition. Many other salts, including thiocyanate can do the same. People who eat a lot of cassava can get hyperthyroidism because it contains cyanide, which is matabolised to thiocyanate.
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« Last Edit: Sep 12th, 2013 at 4:52pm by muso »  

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Vuk11
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Re: NSW Bill Forcing Toxic Fluoride Down Your Neck
Reply #28 - Sep 12th, 2013 at 4:47pm
 
muso wrote on Sep 12th, 2013 at 4:45pm:
I'm impressed that you're actually thinking about the data. It's more than most people would do. Give me some time and I'll find some sources.

The trouble is that a lot of this comes from training that I've done with Emergency Services since 1992. I often have to Google to find what I already know to get the details spot on.

The trouble with Google is that you get so many advocacy blogs that it's not funny.


No problem, I look forward to it.
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Re: NSW Bill Forcing Toxic Fluoride Down Your Neck
Reply #29 - Sep 12th, 2013 at 6:29pm
 
Dsmithy70 wrote on Sep 12th, 2013 at 2:19pm:
PZ547 wrote on Sep 12th, 2013 at 1:18pm:
So Israeli scientists and the Israeli government are wrong, in your opinion ?


Well as we know SCIENISTS will say anything to ensure their funding.
You don't believe 99% of the WORLDS Science fraternity why would you believe a handful of the deceivers, foreign ones at that?

Yes.  This whole fluoridation scam is obviously a scheme by greedy dentists.  They want fluoride in the water so that we get less cavities and have to see them less often and give them less money....errrr...no  wait....IT'S THE COMMUNISTS!!!!

Gay Communist Muslim terrorists are behind it.  It's so obvious.
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