Australian Politics Forum - The Evolution of Islam

Avram Horowitz

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 3153
Australia
Gender: male

Re: The Evolution of Islam
Reply #180 - Jun 29^th, 2013 at 3:57pm

Successful co existence?

We give them Gaza and they elect a terror group with aims in their charter to destroy my county.

We give them their own authority within Samaria and they respond by throwing petrol bombs at our checkpoint and blowing up buses of our women and children.

They do not even want peaceful co existence. They reject it at every level.

Back to top

IP Logged

polite_gandalf Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 20027 Canberra Gender:	Re: The Evolution of Islam Reply #181 - Jun 29^th, 2013 at 4:22pm geez what ungrateful bastards eh Avram? Can't for the life of me imagine what they might still be pissed off about
Back to top	A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said: Quote: Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms. IP Logged

Avram Horowitz Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 3153 Australia Gender:	Re: The Evolution of Islam Reply #182 - Jun 29^th, 2013 at 4:28pm Maybe if you take the anti Semitic glasses off for a second you'll see that only one side has been reaching for peace and be rejected at every junction. How do you think they have Gaza and land in the West Bank? It just magically appears??
Back to top	IP Logged

polite_gandalf

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 20027
Canberra
Gender: male

Re: The Evolution of Islam
Reply #183 - Jun 29^th, 2013 at 4:33pm

Avram Horowitz wrote on Jun 29^th, 2013 at 3:57pm:

We give them their own authority within Samaria and they respond by throwing petrol bombs at our checkpoint

I bet the irony of that statement just flies right over your head right Avram?

And weren't you the one trying to claim there is no occupation of Palestinian land?

"we're not occupying your land - this military presense and all the checkpoints are just there for decoration"

Back to top

A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

IP Logged

Avram Horowitz Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 3153 Australia Gender:	Re: The Evolution of Islam Reply #184 - Jun 29^th, 2013 at 4:40pm The checkpoints are a security point to protect Israeli citizens from attack. If there was no bad behavior from them there would be no checkpoint. That is what you fail,to understand.
Back to top	IP Logged

polite_gandalf

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 20027
Canberra
Gender: male

Re: The Evolution of Islam
Reply #185 - Jun 29^th, 2013 at 4:54pm

Avram Horowitz wrote on Jun 29^th, 2013 at 4:40pm:

The checkpoints are a security point to protect Israeli citizens from attack.

Of course they are protecting civilians - civilians who were planted there illegally under international law. Civilians whose residences exist by bulldozing olive groves, evicting arab civilians and disecting entire communities. Human rights groups like BTselem are all over this - you should look at their reports some day.

Avram Horowitz wrote on Jun 29^th, 2013 at 4:40pm:

If there was no bad behavior from them there would be no checkpoint.

Yes, occupied and humiliated people should be good children and learn how to behave shouldn't they? Roll Eyes

Back to top

A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

IP Logged

Avram Horowitz Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 3153 Australia Gender:	Re: The Evolution of Islam Reply #186 - Jun 29^th, 2013 at 5:02pm I don't need to read reports on the Internet. I spend 2.5 years there myself in three areas of the disputed territories.
Back to top	IP Logged

polite_gandalf Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 20027 Canberra Gender:	Re: The Evolution of Islam Reply #187 - Jun 29^th, 2013 at 5:08pm Avram Horowitz wrote on Jun 29^th, 2013 at 5:02pm: I spend 2.5 years there myself in three areas of the disputed territories. right - as part of the non-existent occupation force.
Back to top	A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said: Quote: Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms. IP Logged

Avram Horowitz Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 3153 Australia Gender:	Re: The Evolution of Islam Reply #188 - Jun 29^th, 2013 at 5:14pm You will find I was polite always to the Palestinians passing the checkpoints. I am sorry but you really don't see anything but one side and with a anti Jewish bias.
Back to top	IP Logged

shockresist

Full Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 151
sydney
Gender: male

Re: The Evolution of Islam
Reply #189 - Jun 29^th, 2013 at 5:24pm

Avram Horowitz wrote on Jun 29^th, 2013 at 5:14pm:

You will find I was polite always to the Palestinians passing the checkpoints.

I am sorry but you really don't see anything but one side and with a anti Jewish bias.

Ive seen the terror and humiliation palestinians endure when they go past Israeli checkpoints.

I cant wait to get my 100 posts to show you the videos

Back to top

IP Logged

Avram Horowitz Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 3153 Australia Gender:	Re: The Evolution of Islam Reply #190 - Jun 29^th, 2013 at 5:26pm I am not interested in your videos. I back my own eyes more than your videos.
Back to top	IP Logged

polite_gandalf

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 20027
Canberra
Gender: male

Re: The Evolution of Islam
Reply #191 - Jun 29^th, 2013 at 5:28pm

Avram I don't doubt your sincerity, but with all due respect you are not an objective observer here.

You haven't even begun to address the core issues that I keep alluding to - the settlements, the evictions, the humiliation and yes, the occupation. Your response so far has been "I'm nice to them - but they are still rude to me - aren't they unreasonable?". As if the occupiers being "nice" and civil is the issue here - and not the occupation itself.

You treat the Palestinians with typical occupiers contempt; you are the responsible parents, and they are the petulent children - who simply need to learn how to behave properly. For you the whole context of the occupation and humiliation of an entire people doesn't even come into it - it all comes down to simple bad behaviour.

If nothing else, you have taught me a lot about the occupiers mindset - and I thank you for that.

Back to top

A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

IP Logged

Avram Horowitz

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 3153
Australia
Gender: male

Re: The Evolution of Islam
Reply #192 - Jun 29^th, 2013 at 5:39pm

Gandalf I will address your points.

I believe as a guest in your country I owe people the truth of my views.

For me the time in the West Bank is all of importance of behavior yes.

Remember I was a member of the Israeli Army. It was my job to follow my orders from above.
The task was to keep order, to ensure that checkpoints run smooth, that no trouble is caused and to keep citizens safe.
If there was ever violence and dependent on where I was it was a different situation.

In the checkpoints close to Bethlehem where we are surrounded by Palestinian land it was dangerous, there was disturbance every day.
Now what must I do?

If there is stone throwing then how must I react?
How old is the Palestinians throwing?
Is there danger?
Do we give prior warnings of response?
Do we fire? And know this I can never fire on Palestinians without telephone official approval from Tel Aviv that it is ok to engage.
Then what? Fire over the heads? Fire at them to wound them?

This is the decisions and this is my influences of my time.

Now the big picture.

This is my views personally as young Israeli man who,looks to the future of my land.

Settlements? Current ones must stay and be protected.
I don't think we should build new ones. It causes many problems.

Palestinians to have their own land and state.

Israel to be a state for Jews.

Deal with Fatah. Never deal with Hamas or Hizbollah.

Talk to the moderate Palestinians and ensure we can have a combination of Jews and Arabs in the West Bank in separate areas with some protection by the IDF.

That is my view. It is two state but they must reject their violence and they must remove Hamas,

Back to top

IP Logged

Karnal

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 98414

Re: The Evolution of Islam
Reply #193 - Jun 29^th, 2013 at 6:38pm

Sounds like successful coexistence to me. The thing is tbough, who’s going to stop Jewish settlers (from the US, Australia, Europe, etc) building new settlements?

Israel’s happy to say it won’t negotiate while Palestinians continue to throw stones at soldiers, but it can’t stop its citizens from getting building permits?

Back to top

IP Logged

Avram Horowitz Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 3153 Australia Gender:	Re: The Evolution of Islam Reply #194 - Jun 29^th, 2013 at 7:09pm The citizens can only build in approved settlements.
Back to top	IP Logged