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Where the Israeil Jews really came from (Read 16851 times)

freediver

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Where the Israeil Jews really came from
Jun 30^th, 2013 at 10:29am

freediver wrote on Jun 29^th, 2013 at 9:45am:

polite_gandalf wrote on Jun 28^th, 2013 at 11:46pm:

freediver wrote on Jun 28^th, 2013 at 10:14pm:

Actually the Arab states pretty much created Israel (and Mossad) by forcing Jews to flee to Israel at an even greater pace than Europe did

Greater pace? I don't think so. The jewish population had its most dramatic rise between about the first world war and 1947
- emigration from arab countries didn't start until 1948 - and was relatively slow.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_exodus_from_Arab_and_Muslim_countries

From the onset of the 1948 Arab–Israeli War until the early 1970s, 800,000–1,000,000 Jews left, fled, or were expelled from their homes in Arab countries; 260,000 of them reached Israel between 1948 and 1951 and amounted for 56% of the total immigration to the newly founded State of Israel.[2] 600,000 Jews from Arab and Muslim countries had reached Israel by 1972.[3][4][5] By the Yom Kippur War of 1973, most of the Jewish communities throughout the Arab World, as well as Pakistan and Afghanistan, were practically non-existent.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aliyah#Aliyah_from_Arab_countries

Aliyah Bet: Illegal immigration (1933–1948)

during the 14 years of its operation, 110,000 Jews immigrated to Palestine

So tell us Gandalf, which one looks more significant to you? People (especially Muslims) like to associate Israel with European interference and the aftermath of the holocaust, yet it was Arabs themselves who contributed most to it. Apparently they mistook it for a concentration camp.

polite_gandalf wrote on Jun 29^th, 2013 at 11:28am:

freediver wrote on Jun 29^th, 2013 at 9:45am:

during the 14 years of its operation, 110,000 Jews immigrated to Palestine

First of all, I wasn't talking about the 14 years, I was talking about the entire inter-war period - ~1918-1948. During that time the jewish population went from around 60k to over 600k

freediver wrote on Jun 29^th, 2013 at 9:45am:

So tell us Gandalf, which one looks more significant to you? People (especially Muslims) like to associate Israel with European interference and the aftermath of the holocaust, yet it was Arabs themselves who contributed most to it.

What are you talking about? Israel was created in 1948 - the jewish exodus from the arab world didn't even start until after that. Of course the creation of Israel was only possible by the mass exodus of jews from Europe - that enabled them to become a majority of the population in certain key centres.

freediver wrote on Jun 29^th, 2013 at 9:45am:

Apparently they mistook it for a concentration camp.

It is trully pathetic when people attempt to draw some sort of moral equivalence between the muslim and European treatment of jews. Perhaps you can enlighten me and show me the muslim gas chambers and the 4+ million dead jews at the hands of the muslims?

Gandalf, where did you get the 60-600k figures from?

Muhammed himself was keen on ethnic cleansing, particularly when it came to Jews. The Arabs achieved what centuries of European Jew-haters could not. You can only make them look good by comparing them to Hitler. By the Yom Kippur War of 1973, most of the Jewish communities throughout the Arab World, as well as Pakistan and Afghanistan, were practically non-existent.

The Arabs turned the whole area from a Jewish "majority of the population in certain key centres" into a Jewish ghetto, the sqealed like pigs when instead of letting the Palestinians wipe them out, the Jews turned it into one of the strongest, wealthiest and most socially progressive nations in the area. When hundreds of thousands of Arab Jews ended up living in tents in the desert, their fellow Jews did not turn their back, and they did not throw rocks at the nearest Arabs they could find. And don't kid yourself that the Arabs would have stopped there. Incompetence is not the same thing as benign intent. The entire Arab world were collectively on their way to outdoing Hitler when they were undone by a tiny new nation. This was not one rogue country with an evil leader that was opposed by every other Arab country. This was every single one of them. And they are still agitating to finish the job.

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polite_gandalf

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Re: Where the Israeil Jews really came from
Reply #1 - Jun 30^th, 2013 at 12:17pm

freediver wrote on Jun 30^th, 2013 at 10:29am:

Gandalf, where did you get the 60-600k figures from?

Several places, eg:

http://israelipalestinian.procon.org/view.resource.php?resourceID=000636

The same figures are verified by several other sources.

freediver wrote on Jun 30^th, 2013 at 10:29am:

Muhammed himself was keen on ethnic cleansing, particularly when it came to Jews. The Arabs achieved what centuries of European Jew-haters could not. You can only make them look good by comparing them to Hitler.

No, the muslim treatment of jews looks very good compared to christians throughout history. When the muslim armies conquered Jerusalem in the 7th century, jews were allowed back to their holy place for the first time in centuries. Religious freedom was restored. When the christians conquered it back in 1096, jews were slaughtered and expelled. When Saladin retook the city in 1187, he entered the temple mount and found it covered in a pile of horse manure. Apparently, for the christian rulers it wasn't merely enough to expel the jews, they had to continue to defile their most holy place. Saladin ordered it cleaned up and yet again invited the jews back to worship freely there.

During the golden age jewish scholars flourished under islamic rule, and made huge contributions to the flourishing of science and philosophy. Yes, there was the occasional pogrom and massacre, but these seem to be the exception not the rule - and it was almost certainly on a much lesser scale to the constant persecution and slaughter of jews in the christian world during the same time. In the 15th century when the catholics retook Spain, the jews were once again targeted and expelled. Where did the muslims flee to? Many went to the muslim world of course.

freediver wrote on Jun 30^th, 2013 at 10:29am:

The Arabs turned the whole area from a Jewish "majority of the population in certain key centres" into a Jewish ghetto, the sqealed like pigs when instead of letting the Palestinians wipe them out, the Jews turned it into one of the strongest, wealthiest and most socially progressive nations in the area.. blah blah blah....

Wow FD, that would have to be the most racist, ignorant and baseless rant from you yet.

I suggest you look at some objective history, rather than be a mindless drone of Israeli propaganda. As early as 1920 the British foreign office observed that the zionists were creating serious political tensions between the jews and the arabs, by openly boasting that they would overrun the entire area of Palestine - with no consideration to the native arabs living there. Zionist leaders such as Ben-Gurion (as quoted previously) were making it clear that any partition plan to grant both the jews and arabs their own state, was merely a stepping stone towards gaining control of the entire area - and once again to hell with the arab natives. From around 1946-47, the jewish terrorist groups Irgun and the Stern Gang were conducting a systematic terror campaign in key arab urban centres to clear the way for zionist expansion. This was well before the arab nations intervened. When the British rulers attempted to clamp down on this terror campaign, the terrorism was redirected to the British - most famously with the King David Hotel bombing - killing 91 civilians - to date the largest single terrorist attack in the entire history of the conflict. When war broke out in 1948, there is little historical doubt that the Israelis used it as an opportunity to systematically drive out (ethnically cleanse) hundreds of thousands of arab civilians.

Yes, there has been extremism and atrocities by both sides, but once again, as you *ALWAYS* do - you paint this sort of conflict involving muslims as a simple case of muslims only behaving badly. This misses the entire context of zionist provocation, and atrocities meted out against arab civilians in the name of an imperialist agenda.

But lets not forget the premise of this thread: the quote you posted in the OP stems from a bogus claim of yours that the creation of Israel was, more than anything else, the result of the expelling of jews from the arab world. Whats really funny about this claim is that this expulsion didn't even start until Israel had already been created Grin

.

Its simply absurd to think that the massive transformation in demographics between the world wars wasn't the main facilitator for the creation of the jewish state - created entirely by jewish migration from Europe. Its just yet another pathetic and desperate attempt to pin what is unquestionably a European issue on to the muslims.

A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
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Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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Avram Horowitz

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Re: Where the Israeil Jews really came from
Reply #2 - Jun 30^th, 2013 at 2:05pm

My grandfather comes from Praha.
He is put by the Nazis into Majdanek camp in WW2 and then told he no longer is wanted by Czeska Republic.

He comes to Israel with Ben Gurion and is one of first Israelis.
This is source of great pride to our family.
I am born like my father in Haifa.

My mother is from New York City.

We Jews are from everywhere!!

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freediver

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Re: Where the Israeil Jews really came from
Reply #3 - Jun 30^th, 2013 at 4:26pm

Quote:

No, the muslim treatment of jews looks very good compared to christians throughout history.

Except that in response to the holocaust and the creation of Israel, the Arab countries, and a few other Muslim ones, expelled nearly all of their Jews, many of whom ended up in Israel. Once they had gotten rid of most of their Jews, they attacked Israel.

Quote:

Yes, there has been extremism and atrocities by both sides, but once again, as you *ALWAYS* do - you paint this sort of conflict involving muslims as a simple case of muslims only behaving badly.

I don't try to paint the fact that they expelled nearly all the Jews and lost war after war against Israel as proof that they were nice to Jews. If Hitler had lost his war after a few days the holocaust would have also been averted, but it would not mean that Hitler's intentions were benign, yet you expect us to believe this about the middle eastern Muslims.

Quote:

But lets not forget the premise of this thread: the quote you posted in the OP stems from a bogus claim of yours that the creation of Israel was, more than anything else, the result of the expelling of jews from the arab world.

The figures back that up. You described a total of 600 000 Jews over a period of more than thirty years (from all sources, including births within Israel and the ones who were already there) as being a "greater rate" than 600 000 Jews fleeing Arab countries from 48 to 72. And the Israel of today is not the Israel of 1948. For starters, it has been swamped with Jews fleeing Arab and Muslim countries who were trying to outcompete Hitler in Jew hating. There were vast tent cities of Jewish refugees, but you don't see Israel insisting that the Arab countries are wiped off the map as punishment.

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polite_gandalf

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Re: Where the Israeil Jews really came from
Reply #4 - Jun 30^th, 2013 at 5:48pm

freediver wrote on Jun 30^th, 2013 at 4:26pm:

Except that in response to the holocaust and the creation of Israel, the Arab countries, and a few other Muslim ones, expelled nearly all of their Jews

In response to the holocaust??

Are you mental? Can you kindly stop making sh!t up to endulge your prejudice?

freediver wrote on Jun 30^th, 2013 at 4:26pm:

I don't try to paint the fact that they expelled nearly all the Jews and lost war after war against Israel as proof that they were nice to Jews.

Neither do I. However unlike you I don't attempt to link this hostility with an imaginary continuous and universal policy of jewish persecution by muslims - going back to the time of the prophet.

The hostility arabs had for jews has a context - it was the ethnic cleansing of arabs out of what became the state of Israel. As I keep repeating, terrorism and expulsion of Palestinians started before the arab nations got involved - a small point that is rather inconvenient to your simplistic meme.

Jewish communities in the arab world had been amongst the most stable and prosperous right up until the 1940s. And then suddenly out of the blue they found themselves the enemy. I wonder why?

Am I excusing the treatment of the jews at the hands of the arabs? No. But I am certainly not going to lie down and swallow the lie about it being nothing other than islamic-inspired anti-semitism. Thats dishonest, and its bigoted.

freediver wrote on Jun 30^th, 2013 at 4:26pm:

Israel was created by European jews. Zionism was a concept conceived, promoted and put into practice by European jews like Theodore Hertzl. The creation of Israel was made possible by the campaign by European zionists, as well as the mass migration of European jews - who enabled the jewish proportion of the population to be large enough to be able to forge a state by 1948. Jews from arab lands didn't start to reach Israel in any significant numbers until after the state had been formed.

freediver wrote on Jun 30^th, 2013 at 4:26pm:

For starters, it has been swamped with Jews fleeing Arab and Muslim countries who were trying to outcompete Hitler in Jew hating.

A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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freediver

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Re: Where the Israeil Jews really came from
Reply #5 - Jun 30^th, 2013 at 6:04pm

Quote:

Are you mental? Can you kindly stop making sh!t up to endulge your prejudice?

Can you explain why else the Arab and nearby Muslim countries would create their own little progrom while the rest of the world was in revulsion of the consequences of antisemitism? It is like their response to the holocaust was the exact opposite of everyone else. They tried to create their own holocaust, and it was not out of concern for their fellow man that the failed.

Quote:

Neither do I. However unlike you I don't attempt to link this hostility with an imaginary continuous and universal policy of jewish persecution by muslims - going back to the time of the prophet.

Muhammed was fond of slaughtering Jews. And blaming them for it. Just like you, Abu, and most other Muslims.

Quote:

The hostility arabs had for jews has a context - it was the ethnic cleansing of arabs out of what became the state of Israel. As I keep repeating, terrorism and expulsion of Palestinians started before the arab nations got involved - a small point that is rather inconvenient to your simplistic meme.

So the Afghan Muslims expelled their Jews because of what a completely unrelated group of Jews did in Israel? Sounds just like something Muhamemd would have done (and he did do crap like this). Or Hitler.

Quote:

Jewish communities in the arab world had been amongst the most stable and prosperous right up until the 1940s.

Except of course for when the Muslims were slaughtering them and "cleansing" them.

Quote:

And then suddenly out of the blue they found themselves the enemy. I wonder why?

Because the Muslims were following Muhammed's and Hitler's lead. A bunch of European Jews moved into Israel without the proper approval of the islamic government of Afghanistan, so the Afghan's had no choice but to punish every Jew they could find. Just like every single other Arab and nearby Muslim country.

Quote:

Am I excusing the treatment of the jews at the hands of the arabs? No. But I am certainly not going to lie down and swallow the lie about it being nothing other than islamic-inspired anti-semitism.

Hitler also inspired it. He toured the middle east and found a willing audience for his rants about The Jews.

Quote:

Israel was created by European jews.

Exactly. And the Arab and nearby Muslim countries responded in unison by punishing every Jew they could find. They expelled then, then sent their armies after them to finish the job. What the Europeans intended as a safe haven for them, the Arabs saw as another of Hitler's ghettos, only this time on a grander scale. All that they learned from the holocaust was slaughtering Jews.

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polite_gandalf

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Re: Where the Israeil Jews really came from
Reply #6 - Jun 30^th, 2013 at 7:34pm

freediver wrote on Jun 30^th, 2013 at 6:04pm:

Can you explain why else the Arab and nearby Muslim countries would create their own little progrom while the rest of the world was in revulsion of the consequences of antisemitism?

Because Palestinians were being terrorised and ethnically cleansed by zionists. Nothing to do with the holocaust. As I said, stop making sh!t up.

Question FD: do you know the meaning of the word 'context'?

A few supplementary questions:
1. Were jews being systematically perseucted and expelled in the muslim world much before the creation of Israel?

2. Do you acknowledge the roll played by jewish terrorist groups like The Irgun in creating tensions and fear amongst the arab populations?

3. Do you acknowledge that ethnic cleansing over arab population centres had already started before the arabs invaded Israel?

4. Do you acknowledge the tensions zionist leaders had created in provoking arab leaders by loudly and proudly boasting that arabs were to be driven out of Palestine - which may have contributed to the animosity arabs felt towards the jews?

Think carefully on these questions before launching yet another islamophobic rant about the causes of this conflict.

freediver wrote on Jun 30^th, 2013 at 6:04pm:

So the Afghan Muslims expelled their Jews because of what a completely unrelated group of Jews did in Israel?

Afghan jews were not expelled. Normally I'd say something like 'stop making sh!t up' - but I'd be sounding like a broken record:

Quote:

By 1948, over 5,000 Jews existed in Afghanistan, and after they were allowed to emigrate in 1951, most of them moved to Israel and the United States.[1] Afghanistan was the only Muslim country that allowed Jewish families to immigrate without revoking their citizenship first. Afghan Jews left the country en masse in the 1960s, their exile to New York and Tel Aviv was motivated by a search for a better life but not because of religious persecution.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Jews_in_Afghanistan#History

freediver wrote on Jun 30^th, 2013 at 6:04pm:

A bunch of European Jews moved into Israel without the proper approval of the islamic government of Afghanistan, so the Afghan's had no choice but to punish every Jew they could find.

Yes, you can stop that little Afghanistan quip since we have just exposed it for the lie that it is. Its like the camel urine lies all over again.

freediver wrote on Jun 30^th, 2013 at 6:04pm:

Hitler also inspired it.

Of course he did. We already know he inspired the non-expulsion of Afghani jews, so why not everywhere else? If you're going to lie, may as well lie big.

A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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freediver

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Re: Where the Israeil Jews really came from
Reply #7 - Jun 30^th, 2013 at 8:46pm

Quote:

Because Palestinians were being terrorised and ethnically cleansed by zionists.

I see. So seeing this "ethnic cleansing" so close to home made them want to get in on the act before it went out of fashion? And unlike the Israelis, they sent their armies in to finish the job off....

Or did they make a rational conclusion that 1 000 000 Arab Jews is tent cities all over Israel would help the plight of the Palestinians?

Quote:

Nothing to do with the holocaust. As I said, stop making sh!t up.

Israel has nothing at all to do with the holocaust? Hitler touring the middle east had nothing to do with Muslims "allowing" all the Jews to leave soon after? It had nothing to do with them sending armies to wipe them out after the Jews who had fled and (surprise, surprise) displaced even more Palestinians?

Quote:

Were jews being systematically perseucted and expelled in the muslim world much before the creation of Israel?

Sure. Muhammed himself slaughtered Jews. Muhammed himself practiced ethnic cleansing.

Quote:

Afghan jews were not expelled.

They just all happened to flee all at the same time, with the assistance of government policy. Move along now, nothing to see here.

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polite_gandalf

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Re: Where the Israeil Jews really came from
Reply #8 - Jun 30^th, 2013 at 9:29pm

freediver wrote on Jun 30^th, 2013 at 8:46pm:

Believe it or not FD, but driving people off their lands in the name of creating a hostile state creates tensions amongst surrounding powers. The sort of tensions that create wars. Is this really so hard to grasp?

freediver wrote on Jun 30^th, 2013 at 8:46pm:

Israel has nothing at all to do with the holocaust?

Thats not what I said - I said the military response by the arabs to the zionist's aggression in Palestine had nothing to do with the holocaust. It did however have everything to do with anxiety of having a hostile apartheid regime being planted in the middle of the arab heartland.

freediver wrote on Jun 30^th, 2013 at 8:46pm:

Hitler touring the middle east had nothing to do with Muslims "allowing" all the Jews to leave soon after?

I haven't found any reference to that yet. Did Hitler actually tour the middle east? I'm beginning to think you made this up as well.

freediver wrote on Jun 30^th, 2013 at 8:46pm:

Sure. Muhammed himself slaughtered Jews. Muhammed himself practiced ethnic cleansing.

Right, so the jews have been systematically persecuted, massacred and driven out right from the time of the prophet? Interesting then that significant jewish communities existed in the muslim world well into the 20th century. In fact not only existed, but thrived. Remind me again where did the Sephardi jews find sanctuary after they were massacred and expelled from Iberia during the catholic inquisitions?

freediver wrote on Jun 30^th, 2013 at 8:46pm:

They just all happened to flee all at the same time, with the assistance of government policy. Move along now, nothing to see here.

There was the small matter of now having the choice to go to their own state. Do you actually have any evidence that Afghan jews were expelled, or are you just going to keep discrediting yourself?

A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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freediver

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Re: Where the Israeil Jews really came from
Reply #9 - Jun 30^th, 2013 at 10:02pm

Quote:

That was the plan wasn't it? A hostile Israel that would lead to their final solution?

Quote:

Thats not what I said - I said the military response by the arabs to the zionist's aggression in Palestine had nothing to do with the holocaust.

So none of those frothing at the mouth crazies saw it as their chance to finish Hitler's work?

Quote:

I haven't found any reference to that yet. Did Hitler actually tour the middle east? I'm beginning to think you made this up as well.

I apologise. I cannot find any reference to it either. I'll look into it more tomorrow. It came up discussion here a while back.

Quote:

Right, so the jews have been systematically persecuted, massacred and driven out right from the time of the prophet?

Abu called it liberation. All non-Muslims were driven out of an area of the Arabian peninsula in the time of the prophet. Muhammed slaughtered Jews and practiced collective punishment (much like the treatment of Arab Jews in response to European Jews turning up in Israel without approval of Muslims). All non-Muslims were treated as second class citizens under Islamic law, but the Jews received special attention, most likely because of the example set by Muhammed. The fact that you can dig up counter examples does not disprove this, and more than Germans protecting Jews in WWII proves that Hitler was a nice guy.

Quote:

Interesting then that significant jewish communities existed in the muslim world well into the 20th century. In fact not only existed, but thrived.

So where are they now? Tell me Gandalf, who was more successful at getting rid of their Jews - the Arabs or the Nazis?

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Avram Horowitz Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 3153 Australia Gender:	Re: Where the Israeil Jews really came from Reply #10 - Jun 30^th, 2013 at 10:15pm Gandalf do you accept that European descended Jews born in Israel have every right to be here?
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polite_gandalf

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Re: Where the Israeil Jews really came from
Reply #11 - Jun 30^th, 2013 at 10:28pm

freediver wrote on Jun 30^th, 2013 at 10:02pm:

That was the plan wasn't it? A hostile Israel that would lead to their final solution?

That makes absolutely no sense - but my explanation does - ethnic cleansing and sabre rattling in the name of imperialist aggression tends to lead to hostile responses.

freediver wrote on Jun 30^th, 2013 at 10:02pm:

So none of those frothing at the mouth crazies saw it as their chance to finish Hitler's work?

Nope thats your story. When you write it like that, do you get a sense of how ridiculous it sounds?

freediver wrote on Jun 30^th, 2013 at 10:02pm:

All non-Muslims were driven out of an area of the Arabian peninsula in the time of the prophet.

I'm pretty sure you made that up too. Unless you can elaborate with some evidence?

freediver wrote on Jun 30^th, 2013 at 10:02pm:

Muhammed slaughtered Jews

People tend to get slaughtered during times of war - including muslims believe it or not. Thats kinda the nature of war - in this case a war that was not started by the muslims.

freediver wrote on Jun 30^th, 2013 at 10:02pm:

and practiced collective punishment

Nah, I'm pretty sure you're referring to the same above-mentioned slaughter. You can call it both slaughter and collective punishment, but please don't try and pass it off as two separate activities.

freediver wrote on Jun 30^th, 2013 at 10:02pm:

but the Jews received special attention, most likely because of the example set by Muhammed.

Special treatment? Hmmm pretty sure thats made up story number 3 in this post alone. You going for some sort of record here?

freediver wrote on Jun 30^th, 2013 at 10:02pm:

So where are they now? Tell me Gandalf, who was more successful at getting rid of their Jews - the Arabs or the Nazis?

Such a relevant question there FD. I'm sure that will absolutely nail the question of WHY arab-Israeli hostilities started in the first place.

« Last Edit: Jun 30^th, 2013 at 10:39pm by polite_gandalf »

A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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polite_gandalf Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 20023 Canberra Gender:	Re: Where the Israeil Jews really came from Reply #12 - Jun 30^th, 2013 at 10:42pm Avram Horowitz wrote on Jun 30^th, 2013 at 10:15pm: Gandalf do you accept that European descended Jews born in Israel have every right to be here? Absolutely. That was never the issue here.
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Lord Herbert

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Re: Where the Israeil Jews really came from
Reply #13 - Jul 1^st, 2013 at 6:48am

Avram Horowitz wrote on Jun 30^th, 2013 at 2:05pm:

*************

And a very big 'Thank you' from me for all the many and wonderful inventions and discoveries you Jews have made that has contributed so greatly to the comforts and conveniences we in the West enjoy today.

Shalom!

They forgot to list all the Jewish American comedians, actors, singers, musicians, politicians, etc etc. and inventors.

Inventors ... Shalom aleichem!

All of this achievement from only a relatively small world community was only possible because their parents didn't make them follow Footy. Cool

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Adamant

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Re: Where the Israeil Jews really came from
Reply #14 - Jul 1^st, 2013 at 3:26pm

Two interesting article's in the American Thinker do not appear to agree with your observations Gandalf.

http://www.americanthinker.com/2013/06/christianity_in_peril_in_turkish_cyprus.h...

http://www.americanthinker.com/2013/06/jews_from_muslim_lands.html

Move along please nothing to see here, Muslims love people of the book, No double standards allowed in islam, Move along please or loose your filthy kuffer head you descendants of pigs and apes.

In real life Gandalf is known as Mr 10%

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