Australian Politics Forum - Abbott's Science and Economics of Climate Change

Makka

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 803
Gender: male

Re: Abbott's Science and Economics of Climate Change
Reply #90 - Apr 13^th, 2013 at 10:50am

freediver wrote on Apr 13^th, 2013 at 9:16am:

Are you sure about that? Tony Abbott for example has spent a significant part of his political career promoting a carbon tax and has scheduled another backflip on the issue for 2015 - the same year that Labor has legislated a shift from a tax to an ETS.

please show us

Back to top

IP Logged

freediver

Gold Member

Offline

www.ozpolitic.com

Posts: 50607
At my desk.

Re: Abbott's Science and Economics of Climate Change
Reply #91 - Apr 13^th, 2013 at 11:19am

Here you go:

http://www.ozpolitic.com/green-tax-shift/tony-abbot-science-economics-climate-ch...

Quote:

Which part of that sentence did I "make up"?

All of it. Fortunately, it is not a particularly long or complicated sentence.

Quote:

The science is NOT settled on human's contribution of global temperature

It is according to Abbott. Who are we to question that?

Quote:

(1) If humans contribute bugger all to the overall carbon equation then reducing it makes bugger all difference
(2) If humans are the major cause of global temperature change and it's already TOO LATE as some are claiming then reducing emissions would make bugger all difference

No middle ground eh?

Back to top

People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

IP Logged

Political Animal

Full Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 178
Gender: male

Re: Abbott's Science and Economics of Climate Change
Reply #92 - Apr 13^th, 2013 at 11:45am

freediver wrote on Apr 13^th, 2013 at 9:16am:

Are you sure about that? Tony Abbott for example has spent a significant part of his political career promoting a carbon tax and has scheduled another backflip on the issue for 2015 - the same year that Labor has legislated a shift from a tax to an ETS.

Yes, I am sure. Your wishful thinking and hopeful speculation does not have a hope in hell.

If you think that Abbott is planning on doing a back flip in his second year of a 3 year term of his inaugural election after campaigning against it an winning office then you understand very little about politics or think that the way the ALP has conducted itself is a sound strategy for gaining government.

Back to top

gregerrypeccary admitting that boat people are illegal immigrants
Quote:

they come here for a better life.

IP Logged

freediver

Gold Member

Offline

www.ozpolitic.com

Posts: 50607
At my desk.

Re: Abbott's Science and Economics of Climate Change
Reply #93 - Apr 13^th, 2013 at 9:09pm

Quote:

If you think that Abbott is planning on doing a back flip in his second year of a 3 year term of his inaugural election

It's not just me.

http://www.ozpolitic.com/green-tax-shift/tony-abbot-science-economics-climate-ch...

Quote:

A carbon price would never be imposed under a Coalition government, Tony Abbott has vowed, apparently toughening the policy he announced last December when he said a price on emissions would be considered when the Coalition reviewed its ''direct action'' climate policy in 2015.

The shadow treasurer, Joe Hockey, has said he believes a carbon price is ''inevitable'', and the environment spokesman, Greg Hunt, said last December the Coalition would use the direct action policy of government grants to reduce emissions in the ''first instance'' but would ''consider [a carbon price] when we know what the US is going to do''.

Most business groups have emerged from briefings with the Coalition believing that the ''direct action'' policy was an interim or transitional policy and the Coalition would consider some form of carbon price in the longer run - probably the baseline and credit scheme it proposed during the failed negotiations with the then-Rudd government last year.

But yesterday Mr Abbott said ''we do not believe in artificially imposing a carbon price on consumers. There will be no carbon price on consumers under a Coalition government.''

Mr Abbott appeared to suggest the Coalition's acceptance of a carbon price would be contingent on the big developing countries such as India and China accepting binding targets for absolute reductions in their levels of emissions.

Back to top

People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

IP Logged

freediver

Gold Member

Offline

www.ozpolitic.com

Posts: 50607
At my desk.

Re: Abbott's Science and Economics of Climate Change
Reply #94 - Apr 14^th, 2013 at 3:52pm

longweekend58 wrote on Mar 31^st, 2013 at 4:45pm:

freediver wrote on Mar 31^st, 2013 at 4:37pm:

Quote:

if gillard had brains she would not have given the Greens a carbon tax

Not just the Greens. Abbott too. He was all for the tax until it became Labor policy. Now she has forced him (the economist) to adopt the worst possible policy from an economic perspective and perform an equally impressive backflip. Silly Julia.

Quote:

I know what a mandate is and in 2010, no one had a mandate for anything.

So what does that mean in practice? They close parliament for 3 years?

Quote:

Well he isnt lying if he sticks to what he says.

You haven't read those quotes yet have you? He has backflipped on both the science and economics already, and has scheduled another backflip for 2015.

Quote:

but if he sticks by his word to what he promises in an election campaign, he isnt lying

Do you agree with his recent stance on the science?

Quote:

youve goit a real shock coming your way in september when abbott has a 90 seat majority

You may also have a rude shock when he keeps the carbon tax.

it wil only because that most undemocratic of parties - the Greens - once again decides that the mandated will of the people is of no consequence to them. an election fought over the carbon tax and comprehensively one places a moral obligation on labor and the greens to vote fro repeal. however one would not normally think in terms of moral obligations in regards to the greens. they do not value the wishes of other people above their own.

Longy I don't think you ever responded on this. If Abbott did the exact same thing as Julia for the exact same reasons, would you blame the Greens and not Abbott?

Back to top

People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

IP Logged

freediver

Gold Member

Offline

www.ozpolitic.com

Posts: 50607
At my desk.

Re: Abbott's Science and Economics of Climate Change
Reply #95 - Apr 16^th, 2013 at 6:44pm

progressiveslol wrote on Apr 10^th, 2013 at 12:16am:

Makka wrote on Apr 10^th, 2013 at 12:08am:

You keep talking about "Australia" reducing emissions as if it will reduce GLOBAL temperature.

What is the economics sense for Australia to make a reduction when it make no difference to GLOBAL temperature because MOST of the Appendix 1 countries are still blowing their emission targets

I think it goes something like this:

If the dumb country does it and keeps doing it, it will force the smart countries to follow, all done through the special powers of empathy. Smart countries dont do things like this by the numbers, but they may feel sorry for us in the end.

progressiveslol wrote on Apr 1^st, 2013 at 5:27pm:

Thinking is over rated

Back to top

People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

IP Logged

freediver

Gold Member

Offline

www.ozpolitic.com

Posts: 50607
At my desk.

Re: Abbott's Science and Economics of Climate Change
Reply #96 - Apr 22^nd, 2013 at 7:14pm

Abbott stoops even lower - how is a fixed price on carbon creating uncertainty? Out of all the measures to reduce emissions, a carbon tax is the most predictable for businesses.

http://www.abc.net.au/7.30/content/2012/s3573785.htm

Opposition Leader Tony Abbott says the carbon price and mining tax are to blame for economic uncertainty in Australia while also responding to the language of asylum and the nature of speech in parliament.

Back to top

People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

IP Logged

rabbitoh07

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 2783
Gender: male

Re: Abbott's Science and Economics of Climate Change
Reply #97 - Apr 22^nd, 2013 at 8:12pm

freediver wrote on Apr 22^nd, 2013 at 7:14pm:

Abbott stoops even lower - how is a fixed price on carbon creating uncertainty? Out of all the measures to reduce emissions, a carbon tax is the most predictable for businesses.

http://www.abc.net.au/7.30/content/2012/s3573785.htm

Opposition Leader Tony Abbott says the carbon price and mining tax are to blame for economic uncertainty in Australia while also responding to the language of asylum and the nature of speech in parliament.

Yes. It is bizarre that he thinks that a fixed price creates "uncertainty". When he proposes exactly the same emission reductions as the ALP by imposing a Great Big Tax that will arbitrarily pay the polluters that his government chooses to pay.

Surely there is far more "uncertainty" in business as to who an Abbott government will choose to give our tax money to? Especially for businesses that are not donors to the Liberal Party.

Back to top

IP Logged

longweekend58

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 45675
Gender: male

Re: Abbott's Science and Economics of Climate Change
Reply #98 - Apr 22^nd, 2013 at 8:18pm

freediver wrote on Apr 22^nd, 2013 at 7:14pm:

Abbott stoops even lower - how is a fixed price on carbon creating uncertainty? Out of all the measures to reduce emissions, a carbon tax is the most predictable for businesses.

http://www.abc.net.au/7.30/content/2012/s3573785.htm

Opposition Leader Tony Abbott says the carbon price and mining tax are to blame for economic uncertainty in Australia while also responding to the language of asylum and the nature of speech in parliament.

seriously??? you dont understand the certainty it is creating?? are you even capable of acknowledging the existence of a counter argument to your point of view? We already know you are incapable of understanding one.

Back to top

AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

IP Logged

Makka

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 803
Gender: male

Re: Abbott's Science and Economics of Climate Change
Reply #99 - Apr 22^nd, 2013 at 9:32pm

freediver wrote on Apr 22^nd, 2013 at 7:14pm:

Abbott stoops even lower - how is a fixed price on carbon creating uncertainty? Out of all the measures to reduce emissions, a carbon tax is the most predictable for businesses.

http://www.abc.net.au/7.30/content/2012/s3573785.htm

Opposition Leader Tony Abbott says the carbon price and mining tax are to blame for economic uncertainty in Australia while also responding to the language of asylum and the nature of speech in parliament.

You are correct FD

Asking businesses and ultimately consumers to pay $23/MT while the market is paying $4/MT creates certainty that Australians are getting screwed

Back to top

IP Logged

Innocent bystander Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 4220 Gender:	Re: Abbott's Science and Economics of Climate Change Reply #100 - Apr 23^rd, 2013 at 4:25am Typical of the ALP to get on the global warming band wagon just as the wheels are falling off, was a good opportunity to do what they do best though ... waste lots of money
Back to top	IP Logged

freediver

Gold Member

Offline

www.ozpolitic.com

Posts: 50607
At my desk.

Re: Abbott's Science and Economics of Climate Change
Reply #101 - Apr 23^rd, 2013 at 7:28pm

longweekend58 wrote on Apr 22^nd, 2013 at 8:18pm:

freediver wrote on Apr 22^nd, 2013 at 7:14pm:

Abbott stoops even lower - how is a fixed price on carbon creating uncertainty? Out of all the measures to reduce emissions, a carbon tax is the most predictable for businesses.

http://www.abc.net.au/7.30/content/2012/s3573785.htm

Opposition Leader Tony Abbott says the carbon price and mining tax are to blame for economic uncertainty in Australia while also responding to the language of asylum and the nature of speech in parliament.

seriously??? you dont understand the certainty it is creating?? are you even capable of acknowledging the existence of a counter argument to your point of view? We already know you are incapable of understanding one.

If you are aware of a counter argument, post it. Hinting at the possibility of it's existence doesn't really cut it.

BTW, Abbott claimed it is creating uncertainty, not certainty. For an economist to say this sort of thing is pretty low. It's like a doctor telling you to make yourself a sh1t sandwich.

Back to top

People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

IP Logged