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Abbott's Science and Economics of Climate Change (Read 12560 times)
freediver
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Abbott's Science and Economics of Climate Change
Mar 31st, 2013 at 1:52pm
 
Tony Abbott on the Science and Economics of Climate Change

http://www.ozpolitic.com/green-tax-shift/tony-abbot-science-economics-climate-ch...

Tony Abbott has been moving in opposite directions on the science and economics of climate change. Until as recently as 2009 Abbott was one of our most extreme climate sceptics. By 2011, his conversion to the mainstream was complete and he acknowledged both the scientific consensus on climate change and the need for action. On the economics however, Abbott has been moving backwards. He started out being viewed as an intellectual and an economic rationalist. When John Howard went into the 2007 election with a carbon trading scheme as policy, Abbott made sound, rational arguments in favour of putting a price on carbon, and went one step further an argued that a tax made more sense than a trading scheme. He even took the time to explain the conundrum that politicians find themselves in, preferring a carbon tax for it's effectiveness and simplicity, but faced with a very difficult political task of selling it to members of the public to whom the economics seems counter-intuitive. Shortly after, he took a curious turn in that he continued to promote a carbon tax as a better mechanism to reduce emissions, but for absurd and non-sensical reasons (though the sound bites may appeal to disinterested or ignorant people, so long as they don't take a second look). He then proceeded to take the coalition down the path of direct action. This is a policy that is rejected by economists as expensive and wasteful, by scientists as unlikely to actually work, and by the farmers who are supposed to do all the heavy lifting. Finally, Tony Abbott has flagged a review of coalition policy (and another likely backflip) as early as 2015. It is little wonder that most of the debate about Abbott rarely gets past the first step of figuring out where he stands and what he really thinks.

Read more, including all the relevant quotes:

http://www.ozpolitic.com/green-tax-shift/tony-abbot-science-economics-climate-ch...
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freediver
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Re: Abbott's Science and Economics of Climate Change
Reply #1 - Mar 31st, 2013 at 1:56pm
 
Videos of the two interviews under "absurd and non-sensical":





Previous discussion on carbon tax, thanks to Maqqa:

http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1361596373
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The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man - George Bernard Shaw
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progressiveslol
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Re: Abbott's Science and Economics of Climate Change
Reply #2 - Mar 31st, 2013 at 2:09pm
 
You blew it with even he.... preferring a carbon tax for it's effectiveness and simplicity.

That is not the case.

It would be helpful if you edited your thread to bring it in to context.
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longweekend58
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Re: Abbott's Science and Economics of Climate Change
Reply #3 - Mar 31st, 2013 at 2:14pm
 
using an ozpolitic blog to prove a point is rather pitiful.
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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."
 
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freediver
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Re: Abbott's Science and Economics of Climate Change
Reply #4 - Mar 31st, 2013 at 2:17pm
 
It is the case progs. The blog has the quotes from Abbott to prove it.
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Team Froggie
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Re: Abbott's Science and Economics of Climate Change
Reply #5 - Mar 31st, 2013 at 2:22pm
 
Yes, well.....







Wink
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Blimey_002.jpg (69 KB | 250 )
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"What's in store for me in the direction I don't take?"-Jack Kerouac.
 
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progressiveslol
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Re: Abbott's Science and Economics of Climate Change
Reply #6 - Mar 31st, 2013 at 2:34pm
 
freediver wrote on Mar 31st, 2013 at 2:17pm:
It is the case progs. The blog has the quotes from Abbott to prove it.

When he starts with "we will not be doing it" says it all dont you think.

"If this is what you want to do, we dont like it but......."

"if you are going to do ..., why not just"

The point of relevance
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i5QXblcJAr4#t=07m29s

No where does he say "this is what we will do" or "this is what we want to do"
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« Last Edit: Mar 31st, 2013 at 2:42pm by progressiveslol »  
 
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freediver
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Re: Abbott's Science and Economics of Climate Change
Reply #7 - Mar 31st, 2013 at 2:50pm
 
Thanks froggie. I have added the second quote from there, and also another anti-tax statement from the same interview.

Quote:
When he starts with "we will not be doing it" says it all dont you think.


No it doesn't progs. As the article explains, Abbott has changed his stance on both issues, from one extreme to the other. A six word sound bite cannot capture that. You may be right about his current position, but remember that is only his current position and he has flagged another backflip in as little as two years.
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progressiveslol
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Re: Abbott's Science and Economics of Climate Change
Reply #8 - Mar 31st, 2013 at 2:57pm
 
freediver wrote on Mar 31st, 2013 at 2:50pm:
Thanks froggie. I have added the second quote from there, and also another anti-tax statement from the same interview.

Quote:
When he starts with "we will not be doing it" says it all dont you think.


No it doesn't progs. As the article explains, Abbott has changed his stance on both issues, from one extreme to the other. A six word sound bite cannot capture that. You may be right about his current position, but remember that is only his current position and he has flagged another backflip in as little as two years.

I dont doubt that Abbott still believes the science isnt settled. That is the reality of the situation. Thats why he gets my vote. I dont care what position with wording he plays, as long as it isnt going on the path to perpetual dictatorship in the form of lifestyle control.
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freediver
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Re: Abbott's Science and Economics of Climate Change
Reply #9 - Mar 31st, 2013 at 3:05pm
 
Quote:
I dont doubt that Abbott still believes the science isnt settled.


He thinks it is settled enough to commit $10billion to one of the more wasteful and dubious options to combat it. I guess you are assuming all that money isn't going to affect your lifetsyle.
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The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man - George Bernard Shaw
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progressiveslol
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Re: Abbott's Science and Economics of Climate Change
Reply #10 - Mar 31st, 2013 at 3:26pm
 
freediver wrote on Mar 31st, 2013 at 3:05pm:
Quote:
I dont doubt that Abbott still believes the science isnt settled.


He thinks it is settled enough to commit $10billion to one of the more wasteful and dubious options to combat it. I guess you are assuming all that money isn't going to affect your lifetsyle.
Maqqa would probably tell you that he has to because Rudd signed the kyoto protocol.

I think he is right. For the very least, we will have to acquire emission reduction units to meet the target.

They make it very difficult to chop and change through all their documetation. You want to have a go, fine with me.

If we can get through this mess, then I am happy to go past this point.
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Re: Abbott's Science and Economics of Climate Change
Reply #11 - Mar 31st, 2013 at 3:43pm
 
no matter what abbots policies are on this or any other topic, when he implements then he will have the support and a mandate from the people and THAT gentlemen, is the democracy we all want.

Or should.
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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."
 
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freediver
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Re: Abbott's Science and Economics of Climate Change
Reply #12 - Mar 31st, 2013 at 3:49pm
 
OK progs, maybe you are right and Abbott is lying about believing the science. Is that how he goes about getting a democratic mandate?
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longweekend58
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Re: Abbott's Science and Economics of Climate Change
Reply #13 - Mar 31st, 2013 at 3:51pm
 
freediver wrote on Mar 31st, 2013 at 3:49pm:
OK progs, maybe you are right and Abbott is lying about believing the science. Is that how he goes about getting a democratic mandate?


its a bit like promising there will be no carbon tax, isnt it?

[seriously, you didnt see that coming?]
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freediver
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Re: Abbott's Science and Economics of Climate Change
Reply #14 - Mar 31st, 2013 at 3:55pm
 
If Gillard had won the election outright, we would not have a carbon tax. Of course I see it coming. I never expected you to get your head around the concept of mandates in coalition government.

Longy do you also believe Abbott is lying about the science?
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The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man - George Bernard Shaw
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