Australian Politics Forum - Geert Wilders on Muslims

JC Denton Gold Member Offline Posts: 5198 Gender:	Re: Geert Wilders on Muslims Reply #15 - Feb 24^th, 2013 at 10:25am ok
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corporate_whitey Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 8896 Archivist	Re: Geert Wilders on Muslims Reply #16 - Feb 24^th, 2013 at 10:25am Wilders anti worship agenda is the same overt totalitarianism of Mao, Hitler and Stalin...In Christian terms he is Satanic...
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JC Denton

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Re: Geert Wilders on Muslims
Reply #17 - Feb 24^th, 2013 at 10:31am

to all those talking about wilders as if he's some sort of militant far-right extremist (and to all the 'conservatives' defending him); what exactly has he done or said that has been so controversial/laudable? he seems like your regular run of the mill garden variety neocon, the only reason he appears to be considered 'extreme' is because he comes from the netherlands and is thus extreme for that place. his objection to islam appears to be that it isnt very nice to jews, homosexuals and 'woman's rights'. he even compares mein kampf to the quran, and not for the purpose of flattery. where is this 'far rightist' that everybody is talking about because i dont see one.

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Annie Anthrax Gold Member Offline Take the plan, spin it sideways Posts: 7057 Gender:	Re: Geert Wilders on Muslims Reply #18 - Feb 24^th, 2013 at 10:36am Read, grasshopper. Read.
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corporate_whitey Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 8896 Archivist	Re: Geert Wilders on Muslims Reply #19 - Feb 24^th, 2013 at 10:39am Wilders is proposing laws to take away our freedom of conscience in worship and make the state the Governor of religious faith, telling us what and how to believe. This links him inseparably from the totalitarian extremism of Mao, Stalin and Hitler and their persecutions and Satanic atrocities....
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Re: Geert Wilders on Muslims
Reply #20 - Feb 24^th, 2013 at 10:40am

JC Denton wrote on Feb 24^th, 2013 at 10:31am:

to all those talking about wilders as if he's some sort of militant far-right extremist (and to all the 'conservatives' defending him); what exactly has he done or said that has been so controversial/laudable? he seems like your regular run of the mill garden variety neocon, the only reason he appears to be considered 'extreme' is because he comes from the netherlands and is thus extreme for that place. his objection to islam appears to be that it isnt very nice to jews, homosexuals and 'woman's rights'. he even compares mein kampf to the quran, and not for the purpose of flattery. where is this 'far rightist' that everybody is talking about because i dont see one.

Funny that it is on these issues that I consider teh muslimz to be more correct than the west.

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In the fullness of time...

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JC Denton

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Re: Geert Wilders on Muslims
Reply #21 - Feb 24^th, 2013 at 10:40am

i did. a bit more.

He believes that all Muslim immigration to the Netherlands should be halted and all settled immigrants should be paid to leave.[4]

i guess he's more extreme than i was thinking but i'm right in saying that he's just a humanist. his objection to islam is that it intersects with his wishy washy 'judeo-christian' (can't stand this term, essentially an attempt to suggest equivalence out of what is really a contrast) humanist beliefs.

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corporate_whitey Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 8896 Archivist	Re: Geert Wilders on Muslims Reply #22 - Feb 24^th, 2013 at 10:48am Geert Wilders wants State control of peoples thoughts and beliefs...he holds hands with murderous tyrants like Hitler, Stalin, Mao and Pol Pot...
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The_Barnacle

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Re: Geert Wilders on Muslims
Reply #23 - Feb 24^th, 2013 at 10:50am

... wrote on Feb 24^th, 2013 at 10:40am:

JC Denton wrote on Feb 24^th, 2013 at 10:31am:

to all those talking about wilders as if he's some sort of militant far-right extremist (and to all the 'conservatives' defending him); what exactly has he done or said that has been so controversial/laudable? he seems like your regular run of the mill garden variety neocon, the only reason he appears to be considered 'extreme' is because he comes from the netherlands and is thus extreme for that place. his objection to islam appears to be that it isnt very nice to jews, homosexuals and 'woman's rights'. he even compares mein kampf to the quran, and not for the purpose of flattery. where is this 'far rightist' that everybody is talking about because i dont see one.

Funny that it is on these issues that I consider teh muslimz to be more correct than the west.

Muslims and Christian Neo Cons actually have very similar ideologies.

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The Right Wing only believe in free speech when they agree with what is being said.

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Kat

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Re: Geert Wilders on Muslims
Reply #24 - Feb 24^th, 2013 at 10:54am

OK, as a tried, convicted and sentenced (by some of you, and quite
wrongly) 'leftie' I have to say that I agree with Red Baron on this
one, and also with Wilders.

And, like RB, I thought O'Keefe did a very poor job, his bias showed
through with every word, and his whole 'battle-plan' was to essentially
'shoot the messenger'.

Now, I don't give a flying smack whether you agree with Wilders or not
but he does have a valid argument, and it is an issue that will have to
be addressed, sooner or later.

IMO, the attempts to silence and/or ridicule him, added to the death
threats he has received, simply confirms the validity of his argument
and takes credibility away from yours.

And I would SO like to bitch-slap the next asshole who tries to relate
all anti-Muslim comments with racism. It is NOT a race, it is a CULT.

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JC Denton

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Re: Geert Wilders on Muslims
Reply #25 - Feb 24^th, 2013 at 10:54am

The_Barnacle wrote on Feb 24^th, 2013 at 10:50am:

... wrote on Feb 24^th, 2013 at 10:40am:

JC Denton wrote on Feb 24^th, 2013 at 10:31am:

to all those talking about wilders as if he's some sort of militant far-right extremist (and to all the 'conservatives' defending him); what exactly has he done or said that has been so controversial/laudable? he seems like your regular run of the mill garden variety neocon, the only reason he appears to be considered 'extreme' is because he comes from the netherlands and is thus extreme for that place. his objection to islam appears to be that it isnt very nice to jews, homosexuals and 'woman's rights'. he even compares mein kampf to the quran, and not for the purpose of flattery. where is this 'far rightist' that everybody is talking about because i dont see one.

Funny that it is on these issues that I consider teh muslimz to be more correct than the west.

Muslims and Christian Neo Cons actually have very similar ideologies.

islam as of present is anti-semitic due to israel, and neoconservatism is slavishly philosemitic. a lot of head name intellectual neocons couldn't give a stuff about gay marriage (bill kristol for example supports it) and are basically social liberals that just extrodinarily hawkish on foreign policy. neo-cons would be horrified at the idea of relegating women to second class citizen status. maybe you'd be right about the typical penecostal bawwwn agaaain christian zionist bible belter, but they're hardly as extreme as muslims. i present weak quantitative evidence of this:

http://anepigone.blogspot.com.au/2012/05/religious-conservatives-in-us-more.html

Quote:

Addressing the oft made assertion (or at least insinuation) "that conservative American Protestants are roughly equivalent with conservative Muslims", Razib tapped the World Values Survey to compare the positions of conservative Protestants in the US with those of Muslims in predominately Islamic countries on some representative social issues. He presents a table that shows all scaled response distributions for each group on each question.

Below, I essentially replicate his results with the purpose of trying to reproduce them in a way that is a little easier for mere mortals like myself to digest. Instead of showing the entire distribution, I use mean values for each group. Razib concludes:

The general qualitative result: American conservative Protestants are in the main to the center or social liberal end of Muslim public opinion. They are not comparable at all to Muslim reactionaries.

As the averages make clearer, conservative Protestants (defined here as those who expressed a preference for the Republican party) are in fact more liberal on each of these issues than Muslims in any of the countries included are. Keep in mind, the comparison here is between conservative Protestants and all Muslims, not just between evangelicals and reactionary Islamists. The latter comparison would show conservative Protestants to be even more liberal relative to Muslims than this comparison does.

Finally, using standard deviation values reported in the WVS, each of the tables also shows where the average conservative Protestant fits into the Muslim distribution*. So, on the question of the justifiability of homosexuality, the average conservative American Protestant is at 71st percentile of the Muslim population. Because the wife-beating question is inverted, the figure shows where the average conservative Protestant falls on the another-black-eye-to-explain-to-the-neighbors-is-unjustifiable distribution. The higher the value (on a 1-10 scale), the more justifiable the act or behavior in question is viewed as being:

Homosexuality Score
Conservative Protestants (US) 3.2
Malaysia (Muslim) 2.9
Jordan (Muslim) 1.0
Iran (Shia) 1.5
Turkey (Muslim) 1.7
Conservative Protestant percentile among Muslims 71st percentile

Abortion Score
Conservative Protestants (US) 3.5
Malaysia (Muslim) 2.8
Iraq (Shia) 1.2
Iraq (Sunni) 2.4
Jordan (Muslim) 1.2
Iran (Shia) 2.3
Morocco (Muslim) 1.8
Turkey (Muslim) 2.3
Conservative Protestant percentile among Muslims 73rd percentile

Man to beat his wife Score
Conservative Protestants (US) 1.3
Malaysia (Muslim) 3.1
Jordan (Muslim) 1.5
Iran (Shia) 1.8
Morocco (Muslim) 2.3
Turkey (Muslim) 1.5
Conservative Protestant percentile among Muslims 63rd percentile

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Postmodern Trendoid III Gold Member Offline Posts: 10259 Gender:	Re: Geert Wilders on Muslims Reply #26 - Feb 24^th, 2013 at 10:56am If you take out the criticisms of Islam, Wilders is just your average politician. Everything else he talks about is no different from what every other politician talks about; same slogans etc.
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corporate_whitey Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 8896 Archivist	Re: Geert Wilders on Muslims Reply #27 - Feb 24^th, 2013 at 10:58am Geert Wilders pushes the murderous message of Stalin, Hitler, Mao and Pol Pot...state totalitarianism...
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JC Denton

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Re: Geert Wilders on Muslims
Reply #28 - Feb 24^th, 2013 at 11:00am

he's more extreme than i was thinking. he wants to voluntarily repatriate muslims. but the idiots whining about him think he's doing it because he doesn't like brown people; in reality, he objects to his what he percieves islam's content to be. he thinks it is threatening to the putative 'judeo-christian' (again, whatever the bugger that is meant to mean) 'humanist' core of the netherlands.

in reality he probably thinks you are dutch if you think gays should be allowed to get married or people should have free speech and bleieve in womans rights or something dumb like that.

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corporate_whitey Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 8896 Archivist	Re: Geert Wilders on Muslims Reply #29 - Feb 24^th, 2013 at 11:04am Wilders wants the state to dictate on how we think and what we can believe....even what we can say...and he has the nerve to use free speech to hide from criticism?
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