Australian Politics Forum - Will Huricane Sandy force the world to act on co2?

chicken_lipsforme Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 7090 Townsville NQ Gender:	Re: Will Huricane Sandy force the world to act on co2? Reply #75 - Nov 13^th, 2012 at 3:34pm BatteriesNotIncluded wrote on Nov 12^th, 2012 at 6:34pm: GO GST!! You really do need to keep up horse.
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BatteriesNotIncluded Gold Member Offline MediocrityNET: because people died for this! Posts: 26966	Re: Will Huricane Sandy force the world to act on co2? Reply #76 - Nov 14^th, 2012 at 3:57pm chicken_lipsforme wrote on Nov 13^th, 2012 at 3:34pm: You really do need to keep up horse. Still loving the old man long time are ya?????
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greggerypeccary

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Re: Will Huricane Sandy force the world to act on co2?
Reply #77 - Nov 15^th, 2012 at 12:15am

rabbitoh07 wrote on Nov 12^th, 2012 at 6:48pm:

No. Overwhelming credible evidence has been presented to support the AGW hypothesis.

Incorrect. No credible, convincing evidence exists.

Your little AGW hypothesis is a good one though, I'll give you that. As far as hypotheses go, it's pretty good.

However, there's just not enough credible evidence to show that humans are causing the globe to warm.

Moreover, it's hard to believe that people are actually that gullible.

Come up with something credible, and we might start listening to you.

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MOTR

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Re: Will Huricane Sandy force the world to act on co2?
Reply #78 - Nov 15^th, 2012 at 3:13am

greggerypeccary wrote on Nov 15^th, 2012 at 12:15am:

Incorrect. No credible, convincing evidence exists.

Your little AGW hypothesis is a good one though, I'll give you that. As far as hypotheses go, it's pretty good.

However, there's just not enough credible evidence to show that humans are causing the globe to warm.

Moreover, it's hard to believe that people are actually that gullible.

Come up with something credible, and we might start listening to you.

So why do 97% of climate scientists think otherwise. Have you considered the possibility you're wrong and the overwhelming majority of scientists who work in the field are right.

Now if you are wrong, and the chances of you being right are incredibly slim, have you thought about the consequenes of your failure to understand the science.

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« Last Edit: Nov 15^th, 2012 at 3:27am by MOTR »

Hunt says Coalition accepts IPCC findings

"What does this mean? It means that we need to do practical things that actually reduce emissions."

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progressiveslol

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Re: Will Huricane Sandy force the world to act on co2?
Reply #79 - Nov 15^th, 2012 at 5:36pm

MOTR wrote on Nov 15^th, 2012 at 3:13am:

So why do 97% of climate scientists think otherwise. Have you considered the possibility you're wrong and the overwhelming majority of scientists who work in the field are right.

Now if you are wrong, and the chances of you being right are incredibly slim, have you thought about the consequenes of your failure to understand the science.

Everyone bar you and a few loons still believe in the fraud 97%

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greggerypeccary

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Re: Will Huricane Sandy force the world to act on co2?
Reply #80 - Nov 15^th, 2012 at 5:51pm

MOTR wrote on Nov 15^th, 2012 at 3:13am:

Have you considered the possibility you're wrong ...

Yep, and I've said so on more than one occasion.

MOTR wrote on Nov 15^th, 2012 at 3:13am:

Now if you are wrong ... have you thought about the consequences ...

Yep, which is why I have no problem with people erring on the side of caution. I've said this on more than one occasion.

I believe one of my posts went something along the lines of "have as many carbon taxes as you like, I couldn't care less".

You need to pay attention.

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greggerypeccary

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Re: Will Huricane Sandy force the world to act on co2?
Reply #81 - Nov 15^th, 2012 at 6:17pm

progressiveslol wrote on Nov 15^th, 2012 at 5:36pm:

... you and a few loons still believe in the fraud 97%

Yes.

"I wonder just how many politicians, environmentalists or scientists who use the phrase ’97% of scientists’ (or those who more carefully use ‘active climate scientists’) to give weight to their arguments regarding climate change to the public, have any idea of the actual source of this soundbite.

"Perhaps a few may say the ’Doran Survey’, which is the one of the most common references for this ’97% of active climate scientists’ phrase. In fact, the Doran EoS paper merely cites a MSc thesis for the actual source of this 97% figure and the actual survey."

“This was a very simplistic and biased questionnaire.”

"Here are but just a few of many responses from scientists that actually took part in the survey, taken from the appendi of the MSc thesis:

“..scientific issues cannot be decided by a vote of scientists. A consensus is not, at any given time, a good predictor of where the truth actually resides..”

“..The “hockey stick” graph that the IPCC so touted has, it is my understanding, been debunked as junk science..”

“..I’m not sure what you are trying to prove, but you will undoubtably be able to prove your pre-existing opinion with this survey! I’m sorry I even started it!..”

"One fact that is not obvious (ie missing) from the Doran EoS paper and that surprised me, is that over 96% of the scientists that responded were from North America (90% USA, 6.2% Canada), with 9% from California alone."

"Are the public aware when they are lectured that ’97% of scientists’ agree based on the Doran paper, by their media, lobbyists, activist scientists and their politicians justifying climate action, that the UK, Germany, Spain, France, Australia, New Zealand respondents made up less than 3% of the survey in total. China had 3 scientists respond (three not 3%), Russian and India zero."

http://wattsupwiththat.com/2012/07/18/what-else-did-the-97-of-scientists-say/

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rabbitoh07

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Re: Will Huricane Sandy force the world to act on co2?
Reply #82 - Nov 15^th, 2012 at 6:27pm

greggerypeccary wrote on Nov 15^th, 2012 at 12:15am:

rabbitoh07 wrote on Nov 12^th, 2012 at 6:48pm:

No. Overwhelming credible evidence has been presented to support the AGW hypothesis.

Incorrect. No credible, convincing evidence exists.

No - there is overwhelming credible, convincing evidence, It has been published in thousands of scientific papers over the last 3 decades or so.

Why can't you explain to where you think this where this " lack of credible, convincing evidence " actually is? With what part of the theory is there a " lack of credible, convincing evidence " ?

Is it the fact that CO2 is a "greenhouse gas" that you think there is a "lack of credible, convincing evidence" for? If you do,, just say so and I will show you the published credible, convincing evidence that CO2 absorbs and re-emits heat.

Is it the fact that CO2 concentration in the atmosphere has increased significantly that you think there is a "lack of credible, convincing evidence" for? If you, just say so and I will show you the published credible, convincing evidence that CO2 concentration in the atmosphere has increased significantly.

Is it the fact that the CO2 concentration in the atmosphere has increased significantly due to anthropogenic activities that you think there is a "lack of credible, convincing evidence" for? If you do, just say so and I will show you the published credible, convincing evidence that the CO2 concentration in the atmosphere has increased significantly due to anthropogenic activities

Is it the fact that the outgoing longwave radiation has decreased in the same wavelengths that are absorbed by CO2 that you think there is a "lack of credible, convincing evidence" for? If you do,, just say so and I will show you the published credible, convincing evidence that outgoing longwave radiation has decreased in the same wavelengths that are absorbed by CO2

Is it the fact that downward longwave radiation longwave radiation has increased that you think there is a "lack of credible, convincing evidence" for? If you do,, just say so and I will show you the published credible, convincing evidence that downward longwave radiation longwave radiation has increased.

Is it the fact that global surface temperatures and ocean temperatures have increased that you think there is a "lack of credible, convincing evidence" for? If you do,, just say so and I will show you the published credible, convincing evidence thatthat global surface temperatures and ocean temperatures have increased

Please tell us exactly which part of AGW you think lacks credible, convincing evidence.

And I will happily provide evidence for you.

greggerypeccary wrote on Nov 15^th, 2012 at 12:15am:

However, there's just not enough credible evidence to show that humans are causing the globe to warm.

No. Overwhelming credible evidence has been presented to support the AGW hypothesis.
You just don't know about it because Bolty hasn't told you.

Please tell us exactly which part of AGW you think lacks credible, convincing evidence.

And I will happily provide evidence for you.

Stop putting your fingers in your ears and running away. Tell us what part of the theory is it that you think lacks evidence.

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rabbitoh07 Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 2783 Gender:	Re: Will Huricane Sandy force the world to act on co2? Reply #83 - Nov 15^th, 2012 at 6:29pm oops...
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rabbitoh07

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Re: Will Huricane Sandy force the world to act on co2?
Reply #84 - Nov 15^th, 2012 at 6:33pm

greggerypeccary wrote on Nov 15^th, 2012 at 6:17pm:

progressiveslol wrote on Nov 15^th, 2012 at 5:36pm:

... you and a few loons still believe in the fraud 97%

Yes.

"I wonder just how many politicians, environmentalists or scientists who use the phrase ’97% of scientists’ (or those who more carefully use ‘active climate scientists’) to give weight to their arguments regarding climate change to the public, have any idea of the actual source of this soundbite.

"Perhaps a few may say the ’Doran Survey’, which is the one of the most common references for this ’97% of active climate scientists’ phrase. In fact, the Doran EoS paper merely cites a MSc thesis for the actual source of this 97% figure and the actual survey."

“This was a very simplistic and biased questionnaire.”

"Here are but just a few of many responses from scientists that actually took part in the survey, taken from the appendi of the MSc thesis:

“..scientific issues cannot be decided by a vote of scientists. A consensus is not, at any given time, a good predictor of where the truth actually resides..”

“..The “hockey stick” graph that the IPCC so touted has, it is my understanding, been debunked as junk science..”

“..I’m not sure what you are trying to prove, but you will undoubtably be able to prove your pre-existing opinion with this survey! I’m sorry I even started it!..”

"One fact that is not obvious (ie missing) from the Doran EoS paper and that surprised me, is that over 96% of the scientists that responded were from North America (90% USA, 6.2% Canada), with 9% from California alone."

"Are the public aware when they are lectured that ’97% of scientists’ agree based on the Doran paper, by their media, lobbyists, activist scientists and their politicians justifying climate action, that the UK, Germany, Spain, France, Australia, New Zealand respondents made up less than 3% of the survey in total. China had 3 scientists respond (three not 3%), Russian and India zero."

http://wattsupwiththat.com/2012/07/18/what-else-did-the-97-of-scientists-say/

Perhaps you could point us to the scientific papers by scientists that argue that AGW is not occurring?
Surely if there are a significant number of these scientists, then the scientific literature must be full of such papers. There must be a very rigourous debate going on in the scientific literature!!

Where is it?

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greggerypeccary

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Re: Will Huricane Sandy force the world to act on co2?
Reply #85 - Nov 15^th, 2012 at 6:51pm

rabbitoh07 wrote on Nov 15^th, 2012 at 6:27pm:

Is it the fact that the CO2 concentration in the atmosphere has increased significantly due to anthropogenic activities that you think there is a "lack of credible, convincing evidence" for? If you do, just say so and I will show you the published credible, convincing evidence that the CO2 concentration in the atmosphere has increased significantly due to anthropogenic activities

Is it the fact that global surface temperatures and ocean temperatures have increased that you think there is a "lack of credible, convincing evidence" for? If you do,, just say so and I will show you the published credible, convincing evidence thatthat global surface temperatures and ocean temperatures have increased

There's no credible, reliable evidence to support this hypothesis.

Sorry.

Moreover, your continual use of the word "fact" demonstrates just how ignorant you are when it comes to science.

It's the AGW hypothesis, not the AGW "fact". You need to learn the difference. Until then, you're just making an absolute fool of yourself.

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greggerypeccary

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Re: Will Huricane Sandy force the world to act on co2?
Reply #86 - Nov 15^th, 2012 at 6:57pm

rabbitoh07 wrote on Nov 15^th, 2012 at 6:27pm:

Is it the fact that the CO2 concentration in the atmosphere has increased significantly due to anthropogenic activities that you think there is a "lack of credible, convincing evidence" for? If you do, just say so and I will show you the published credible, convincing evidence that the CO2 concentration in the atmosphere has increased significantly due to anthropogenic activities

Yes.

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rabbitoh07

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Re: Will Huricane Sandy force the world to act on co2?
Reply #87 - Nov 15^th, 2012 at 7:08pm

greggerypeccary wrote on Nov 15^th, 2012 at 6:51pm:

rabbitoh07 wrote on Nov 15^th, 2012 at 6:27pm:

Is it the fact that the CO2 concentration in the atmosphere has increased significantly due to anthropogenic activities that you think there is a "lack of credible, convincing evidence" for? If you do, just say so and I will show you the published credible, convincing evidence that the CO2 concentration in the atmosphere has increased significantly due to anthropogenic activities

Is it the fact that global surface temperatures and ocean temperatures have increased that you think there is a "lack of credible, convincing evidence" for? If you do,, just say so and I will show you the published credible, convincing evidence thatthat global surface temperatures and ocean temperatures have increased

There's no credible, reliable evidence to support this hypothesis.

No Greggery. THere is overwhelming credible evidence that has been presented to support the AGW hypothesis.

I would be happy to show some to you if you were able to explain to us what it is exactly you doubt.

Why can't you tell us what you want to see evidence for Greggery?

greggerypeccary wrote on Nov 15^th, 2012 at 6:51pm:

Moreover, your continual use of the word "fact" demonstrates just how ignorant you are when it comes to science.

Oh Greggery!!! Who do you think you are fooling!!

We have a lot of facts.

It is a FACT that CO2 is a greenhouse gas
It is a FACT that the atmospheric concentration of CO2 has increased in the past century.
It is a FACT that the majority of the increase in atmospheric CO2 has come from anthropogenic souces
It is a FACT that there has been a measured decrease in outgoing longwave radiation at the same wavelengths which are absorbed by CO2
It is a FACT that there has been an observed increase in downwardlongwave radiation
It is a FACT that there has been an observed increase in global surface and ocean temperatures in recent decades

All of these FACTS support the hypothesis.
And in the absence of any FACTS contrary to the hypothesis - we have what we call an accepted theory.
A theory accepted by virtually every scientist on the planet
A theory supported by thousands of papers in the scientific literature
A theory - which is opposed by you and your mates Jones and Bolt - and pretty much nobody else.
greggerypeccary wrote on Nov 15^th, 2012 at 6:51pm:

It's the AGW hypothesis, not the AGW "fact". You need to learn the difference. Until then, you're just making an absolute fool of yourself.

Sorry Greggery - you bluster will not convince anyone. Admit it - you are a sad old man who is frightened by things he doesn't understand, so you close your eyes and pretend they don't exist.

Tell us what you don't understand Greggery - I will happiiy explain it to you.

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rabbitoh07

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Re: Will Huricane Sandy force the world to act on co2?
Reply #88 - Nov 15^th, 2012 at 7:32pm

greggerypeccary wrote on Nov 15^th, 2012 at 6:57pm:

rabbitoh07 wrote on Nov 15^th, 2012 at 6:27pm:

Is it the fact that the CO2 concentration in the atmosphere has increased significantly due to anthropogenic activities that you think there is a "lack of credible, convincing evidence" for? If you do, just say so and I will show you the published credible, convincing evidence that the CO2 concentration in the atmosphere has increased significantly due to anthropogenic activities

Yes.

Good for you Greggery!!!

You are actually going to let us know the bits you don't trust so we can show you the evidence!!! I am so proud of you!

Now - you doubt the fact that the CO2 concentration in the atmosphere has increased significantly due to anthropogenic activities.

OK, it is a fair point.

Now obviously - there must be some reason for the significant increase in atmospheric CO2 that has been measured - and at first look - the obvious answer would be that CO2 is a product of combustion, and in the past century, we have dug up and burnt shedloads of coal and oil and stuff. ANd CO2 is also absorbed by vegetation - and in the past century or so we have cut down shedloads of forests.

Right?

Seems obvious - but is there evidence to confirm it?
Yes there is.

The carbon in the coal and oil laid down millions of years ago has a different ratio of C13/C12 isotopes than that in living matter:
when organic carbon is buried, more 12C is locked out of the system in sediments than the background ratio (because organic carbon is lighter).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Δ13C#Reference_standard

It has been measured that the C12 in the atmosphere is decreasing:

Owing mainly to antropogenic activities including land use change and fossil fuel burning, the 13C/12C ratio of CO2 in the atmosphere has changed over the last 200 years by 1.5 parts per thousand (from about 0.0111073 to 0.0110906).
http://www.bgc.mpg.de/service/iso_gas_lab/publications/PG_WB_IJMS.pdf

So,

We have an observed effect - CO2 is increasing.
We know we have burt a lot of coal - so that carbon must be going somewhere, and it just so happens that the stuff in the air bears the isotopic fingerprint of a burnt fossil fuel.
ANd in the absence of any other explanation as to why an increase in carbon bearing the fingerprint of a burt fossil fuel should appear in the atmosphere suddenly in increasing amounts - at exactly he time we are burning a lot of fossil fuels - it would appear difficult how anyone could consider that evidence anything but credible and convincing .

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greggerypeccary Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 156212 Gender:	Re: Will Huricane Sandy force the world to act on co2? Reply #89 - Nov 15^th, 2012 at 7:51pm rabbitoh07 wrote on Nov 15^th, 2012 at 6:27pm: Is it the fact that the CO2 concentration in the atmosphere has increased significantly due to anthropogenic activities ... Sorry. This is not a "fact". When will you learn ?
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