Australian Politics Forum - Will Huricane Sandy force the world to act on co2?

Prevailing

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Re: Will Huricane Sandy force the world to act on co2?
Reply #30 - Nov 5^th, 2012 at 4:14pm

Doctor Jolly wrote on Nov 5^th, 2012 at 4:04pm:

Prevailing wrote on Nov 5^th, 2012 at 3:34pm:

Assigning a Tax to a chemical reaction is a farce...Tax the second law of thermo-dynamics why don't you...

Assigning a penalty rate on polution has been pretty standard practice in modern economies for some time.

You pour acid into the river, you get fined. You dont pour acid into the river, you dont.

Lolololol now you are equating pensioners turning a light switch on and off with pouring acid into a river as an excuse to tax them...Lolololol...give it up...you got nothing... Grin

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« Last Edit: Nov 5^th, 2012 at 4:22pm by Prevailing »

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gizmo_2655

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Re: Will Huricane Sandy force the world to act on co2?
Reply #31 - Nov 5^th, 2012 at 4:24pm

Doctor Jolly wrote on Nov 5^th, 2012 at 4:03pm:

gizmo_2655 wrote on Nov 5^th, 2012 at 3:26pm:

Doctor Jolly wrote on Nov 5^th, 2012 at 3:06pm:

gizmo_2655 wrote on Nov 5^th, 2012 at 1:22pm:

The problem is, I'm still not convinced that the greenhouse effect is in anyway responsible for the recent/current warming, or indeed that the co2 (which IS a greenhouse gas) increase is a 'cause' rather than an 'effect'...

Put simply, the possibility exists (strongly) that the change to the worlds temperature have an entire unknown or unsuspected cause, and reducing or removing any amount of Co2 from the atmosphere won't make the slightest bit of difference to any future temperature increases, and may, in fact,
cause a catastrophic plunge in the climate...

Its seems you are not clear on what you do and dont believe.
We know we are increasing co2 levels in the atmosphere (The simple question is, where do you think its going from burning all this coal ?). And we know co2 causes warming, because it already does.
More co2 = more warming.

Nothing earth shattering there. To cling to an argument which contradicts this bleeding obvious statement because of a belief "unknown cause" is really a bit religous, and no place in logical approaches.

That's the bit that hasn't been proven to my satisfaction yet...

And it has nothing to do with religion or politics.....just logic and scientific method.
A true scientist is always the first to admit that they don't know everything....and because it's unknown (or undiscovered) doesn't imply any 'intelligent' being at work.....it just means we may not have discovered the perfectly natural mechanism at work...

p.s automatically attempting to assign disbelief in unclear scientific methodology to a religious attitude is pathetic and childish......it would be just as easy to assign belief in AGW to the 'church of Gaia'...

Thats just silly. Co2 being a green house gas, and its thermo properties keeping the earth warmer than it would be without co2 in the atmosphere has been known since the 1950's.... probably earlier.

Yes...all very true. It's due to the green house effect that we don't ski across the pacific ocean on holidays.......however, that doesn't necessarily mean we will melt into puddles because of it either...any more than putting hot water into a thermos flask will cause the water to increase in temperature until it boils...

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It's similar to a strawman fallacy"
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Doctor Jolly

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Re: Will Huricane Sandy force the world to act on co2?
Reply #32 - Nov 5^th, 2012 at 4:24pm

Prevailing wrote on Nov 5^th, 2012 at 4:14pm:

Doctor Jolly wrote on Nov 5^th, 2012 at 4:04pm:

Prevailing wrote on Nov 5^th, 2012 at 3:34pm:

Assigning a Tax to a chemical reaction is a farce...Tax the second law of thermo-dynamics why don't you...

Assigning a penalty rate on polution has been pretty standard practice in modern economies for some time.

You pour acid into the river, you get fined. You dont pour acid into the river, you dont.

Lolololol now you are equating pensioners turning a light switch on and off with pouring acid into a river as an excuse to tax them...Lolololol...give it up...you got nothing... Grin

Of course not. pensioners turning on a light switch is entirely their choice where they get the power from (coal / renewable), and they dont pay any fine.

Same as if they buy products from acid-river poluters. The acid-river poluters have already factored the price of the fines into the final price of the product.

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gizmo_2655

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Re: Will Huricane Sandy force the world to act on co2?
Reply #33 - Nov 5^th, 2012 at 4:25pm

Doctor Jolly wrote on Nov 5^th, 2012 at 4:04pm:

Prevailing wrote on Nov 5^th, 2012 at 3:34pm:

Assigning a Tax to a chemical reaction is a farce...Tax the second law of thermo-dynamics why don't you...

Assigning a penalty rate on polution has been pretty standard practice in modern economies for some time.

You pour acid into the river, you get fined. You dont pour acid into the river, you dont.

But Co2 isn't a pollutant, it is a natural by-product of life itself..

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"I just get sick of people who place a label on someone else with their own definition.

It's similar to a strawman fallacy"
Bobbythebat

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Doctor Jolly

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Re: Will Huricane Sandy force the world to act on co2?
Reply #34 - Nov 5^th, 2012 at 4:27pm

gizmo_2655 wrote on Nov 5^th, 2012 at 4:24pm:

Quote:

Thats just silly. Co2 being a green house gas, and its thermo properties keeping the earth warmer than it would be without co2 in the atmosphere has been known since the 1950's.... probably earlier.

Yes...all very true. It's due to the green house effect that we don't ski across the pacific ocean on holidays.......however, that doesn't necessarily mean we will melt into puddles because of it either...any more than putting hot water into a thermos flask will cause the water to increase in temperature until it boils...

So you are saying that co2 does make the world warmer, and a drop in co2 would make it colder, but an increase wont make it warmer ?

Thats denier logic there boy.

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Doctor Jolly

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Re: Will Huricane Sandy force the world to act on co2?
Reply #35 - Nov 5^th, 2012 at 4:29pm

gizmo_2655 wrote on Nov 5^th, 2012 at 4:25pm:

Doctor Jolly wrote on Nov 5^th, 2012 at 4:04pm:

Prevailing wrote on Nov 5^th, 2012 at 3:34pm:

Assigning a Tax to a chemical reaction is a farce...Tax the second law of thermo-dynamics why don't you...

Assigning a penalty rate on polution has been pretty standard practice in modern economies for some time.

You pour acid into the river, you get fined. You dont pour acid into the river, you dont.

But Co2 isn't a pollutant, it is a natural by-product of life itself..

Define "polutant" ?

Any substance that makes the world worse off would be mine. Radiation is "natural" too. Doesnt mean I want to live near fukushima.

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Prevailing

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Re: Will Huricane Sandy force the world to act on co2?
Reply #36 - Nov 5^th, 2012 at 4:38pm

Doctor Jolly wrote on Nov 5^th, 2012 at 4:29pm:

gizmo_2655 wrote on Nov 5^th, 2012 at 4:25pm:

Doctor Jolly wrote on Nov 5^th, 2012 at 4:04pm:

Prevailing wrote on Nov 5^th, 2012 at 3:34pm:

Assigning a Tax to a chemical reaction is a farce...Tax the second law of thermo-dynamics why don't you...

Assigning a penalty rate on polution has been pretty standard practice in modern economies for some time.

You pour acid into the river, you get fined. You dont pour acid into the river, you dont.

But Co2 isn't a pollutant, it is a natural by-product of life itself..

Define "polutant" ?

Any substance that makes the world worse off would be mine. Radiation is "natural" too. Doesnt mean I want to live near fukushima.

You are plucking out of thin air...Mormonism is more rational than your taxation theories... Cheesy

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gizmo_2655

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Re: Will Huricane Sandy force the world to act on co2?
Reply #37 - Nov 5^th, 2012 at 5:02pm

Doctor Jolly wrote on Nov 5^th, 2012 at 4:27pm:

gizmo_2655 wrote on Nov 5^th, 2012 at 4:24pm:

Quote:

Thats just silly. Co2 being a green house gas, and its thermo properties keeping the earth warmer than it would be without co2 in the atmosphere has been known since the 1950's.... probably earlier.

Yes...all very true. It's due to the green house effect that we don't ski across the pacific ocean on holidays.......however, that doesn't necessarily mean we will melt into puddles because of it either...any more than putting hot water into a thermos flask will cause the water to increase in temperature until it boils...

So you are saying that co2 does make the world warmer, and a drop in co2 would make it colder, but an increase wont make it warmer ?

Thats denier logic there boy.

No, Co2 helps retain the world's temperature....insulation should never be confused with a heat source....

Do the pink batts in your roof contribute to the internal temperature by generating heat???

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"I just get sick of people who place a label on someone else with their own definition.

It's similar to a strawman fallacy"
Bobbythebat

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gizmo_2655

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Re: Will Huricane Sandy force the world to act on co2?
Reply #38 - Nov 5^th, 2012 at 5:07pm

Doctor Jolly wrote on Nov 5^th, 2012 at 4:29pm:

gizmo_2655 wrote on Nov 5^th, 2012 at 4:25pm:

Doctor Jolly wrote on Nov 5^th, 2012 at 4:04pm:

Prevailing wrote on Nov 5^th, 2012 at 3:34pm:

Assigning a Tax to a chemical reaction is a farce...Tax the second law of thermo-dynamics why don't you...

Assigning a penalty rate on polution has been pretty standard practice in modern economies for some time.

You pour acid into the river, you get fined. You dont pour acid into the river, you dont.

But Co2 isn't a pollutant, it is a natural by-product of life itself..

Define "polutant" ?

Any substance that makes the world worse off would be mine. Radiation is "natural" too. Doesnt mean I want to live near fukushima.

Simple...a 'polLutant' is a chemical or group of chemical that do not occur naturally in the natural world without human intervention...

And what is at Fukushima is 'contamination', not really pollution

(edit) A pollutant is substance or energy introduced into the environment that has undesired effects, or adversely affects the usefulness of a resource. A pollutant may cause long- or short-term damage by changing the growth rate of plant or animal species, or by interfering with human amenities, comfort, health, or property values. Pollutants may be classified by various criteria: (1) By the origin: whether they are natural or man-made (synthetic). (2) By the effect, regardless of origin: on an organ, specie, or ecosystem. (3) By the properties: mobility, concentration, persistence, toxicity. (4) By the controllability: ease or difficulty of removal.

p.s And by the way......the radiation levels detected a Fukushima is about half of what you receive, annually from the average house...(the average annual dose of Radon in a normal home is 200 millirem, or 2 Millisieverts and the dose found in Fukushima locals was 1 Millisievert) which equates to an extra 6 months for every year in your house...

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« Last Edit: Nov 5^th, 2012 at 5:21pm by gizmo_2655 »

"I just get sick of people who place a label on someone else with their own definition.

It's similar to a strawman fallacy"
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BatteriesNotIncluded

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Re: Will Huricane Sandy force the world to act on co2?
Reply #39 - Nov 5^th, 2012 at 5:57pm

Doctor Jolly wrote on Nov 5^th, 2012 at 9:22am:

Will Huricane Sandy, hitting home to one of the world centres, finally make the US do something about its co2 emissions ?

I think its the first step. More super-storms to follow will all chip away at the deniers stranglehold on US politics.

It will ramp up business activity in the green industry, if that's what you mean!

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*Sure....they're anti competitive as any subsidised job is. It wouldn't be there without the tax payer. Very damned difficult for a brainwashed collectivist to understand that I know.... (swaggy) *

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BatteriesNotIncluded

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Re: Will Huricane Sandy force the world to act on co2?
Reply #40 - Nov 5^th, 2012 at 5:58pm

gizmo_2655 wrote on Nov 5^th, 2012 at 5:02pm:

Doctor Jolly wrote on Nov 5^th, 2012 at 4:27pm:

gizmo_2655 wrote on Nov 5^th, 2012 at 4:24pm:

Quote:

Thats just silly. Co2 being a green house gas, and its thermo properties keeping the earth warmer than it would be without co2 in the atmosphere has been known since the 1950's.... probably earlier.

Yes...all very true. It's due to the green house effect that we don't ski across the pacific ocean on holidays.......however, that doesn't necessarily mean we will melt into puddles because of it either...any more than putting hot water into a thermos flask will cause the water to increase in temperature until it boils...

So you are saying that co2 does make the world warmer, and a drop in co2 would make it colder, but an increase wont make it warmer ?

Thats denier logic there boy.

No, Co2 helps retain the world's temperature....insulation should never be confused with a heat source....

Do the pink batts in your roof contribute to the internal temperature by generating heat???

lol, talk about regurgitation of the basics!

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*Sure....they're anti competitive as any subsidised job is. It wouldn't be there without the tax payer. Very damned difficult for a brainwashed collectivist to understand that I know.... (swaggy) *

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gizmo_2655

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Re: Will Huricane Sandy force the world to act on co2?
Reply #41 - Nov 5^th, 2012 at 6:20pm

BatteriesNotIncluded wrote on Nov 5^th, 2012 at 5:58pm:

gizmo_2655 wrote on Nov 5^th, 2012 at 5:02pm:

Doctor Jolly wrote on Nov 5^th, 2012 at 4:27pm:

gizmo_2655 wrote on Nov 5^th, 2012 at 4:24pm:

Quote:

Thats just silly. Co2 being a green house gas, and its thermo properties keeping the earth warmer than it would be without co2 in the atmosphere has been known since the 1950's.... probably earlier.

Yes...all very true. It's due to the green house effect that we don't ski across the pacific ocean on holidays.......however, that doesn't necessarily mean we will melt into puddles because of it either...any more than putting hot water into a thermos flask will cause the water to increase in temperature until it boils...

So you are saying that co2 does make the world warmer, and a drop in co2 would make it colder, but an increase wont make it warmer ?

Thats denier logic there boy.

No, Co2 helps retain the world's temperature....insulation should never be confused with a heat source....

Do the pink batts in your roof contribute to the internal temperature by generating heat???

lol, talk about regurgitation of the basics!

And the completely brain damaged, total embarrassment to the whole AGW idea..speaks..LOL.....Al Gore would prefer you to go away, you're making it worse...

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"I just get sick of people who place a label on someone else with their own definition.

It's similar to a strawman fallacy"
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BatteriesNotIncluded

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Re: Will Huricane Sandy force the world to act on co2?
Reply #42 - Nov 5^th, 2012 at 6:29pm

gizmo_2655 wrote on Nov 5^th, 2012 at 6:20pm:

BatteriesNotIncluded wrote on Nov 5^th, 2012 at 5:58pm:

gizmo_2655 wrote on Nov 5^th, 2012 at 5:02pm:

Doctor Jolly wrote on Nov 5^th, 2012 at 4:27pm:

gizmo_2655 wrote on Nov 5^th, 2012 at 4:24pm:

Quote:

Thats just silly. Co2 being a green house gas, and its thermo properties keeping the earth warmer than it would be without co2 in the atmosphere has been known since the 1950's.... probably earlier.

Yes...all very true. It's due to the green house effect that we don't ski across the pacific ocean on holidays.......however, that doesn't necessarily mean we will melt into puddles because of it either...any more than putting hot water into a thermos flask will cause the water to increase in temperature until it boils...

So you are saying that co2 does make the world warmer, and a drop in co2 would make it colder, but an increase wont make it warmer ?

Thats denier logic there boy.

No, Co2 helps retain the world's temperature....insulation should never be confused with a heat source....

Do the pink batts in your roof contribute to the internal temperature by generating heat???

lol, talk about regurgitation of the basics!

And the completely brain damaged, total embarrassment to the whole AGW idea..speaks..LOL.....Al Gore would prefer you to go away, you're making it worse...

i DON'T THINK SO MATEY,.... AND THAT BEING ALL THAT MATTERS WHY DON'T YOU JUST GO AHEAD AND GET THE LAWYERS ON THE LINE AND SUE ME!!

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*Sure....they're anti competitive as any subsidised job is. It wouldn't be there without the tax payer. Very damned difficult for a brainwashed collectivist to understand that I know.... (swaggy) *

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gizmo_2655

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Re: Will Huricane Sandy force the world to act on co2?
Reply #43 - Nov 5^th, 2012 at 6:31pm

BatteriesNotIncluded wrote on Nov 5^th, 2012 at 6:29pm:

gizmo_2655 wrote on Nov 5^th, 2012 at 6:20pm:

BatteriesNotIncluded wrote on Nov 5^th, 2012 at 5:58pm:

gizmo_2655 wrote on Nov 5^th, 2012 at 5:02pm:

Doctor Jolly wrote on Nov 5^th, 2012 at 4:27pm:

gizmo_2655 wrote on Nov 5^th, 2012 at 4:24pm:

Quote:

Thats just silly. Co2 being a green house gas, and its thermo properties keeping the earth warmer than it would be without co2 in the atmosphere has been known since the 1950's.... probably earlier.

Yes...all very true. It's due to the green house effect that we don't ski across the pacific ocean on holidays.......however, that doesn't necessarily mean we will melt into puddles because of it either...any more than putting hot water into a thermos flask will cause the water to increase in temperature until it boils...

So you are saying that co2 does make the world warmer, and a drop in co2 would make it colder, but an increase wont make it warmer ?

Thats denier logic there boy.

No, Co2 helps retain the world's temperature....insulation should never be confused with a heat source....

Do the pink batts in your roof contribute to the internal temperature by generating heat???

lol, talk about regurgitation of the basics!

And the completely brain damaged, total embarrassment to the whole AGW idea..speaks..LOL.....Al Gore would prefer you to go away, you're making it worse...

i DON'T THINK SO MATEY,.... AND THAT BEING ALL THAT MATTERS WHY DON'T YOU JUST GO AHEAD AND GET THE LAWYERS ON THE LINE AND SUE ME!!

That's ok...everyone else does...(even Tim Flannery is laughing at your posts)

You're loud, ignorant and so stupid that you shouldn't be allowed out without a 'keeper'...Sorry, just expressing the commonly held opinion of YOU...

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« Last Edit: Nov 5^th, 2012 at 6:49pm by gizmo_2655 »

"I just get sick of people who place a label on someone else with their own definition.

It's similar to a strawman fallacy"
Bobbythebat

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progressiveslol Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 17029	Re: Will Huricane Sandy force the world to act on co2? Reply #44 - Nov 6^th, 2012 at 7:01am Try and guess who the AGW loon is. The one that sounds like a spoilt prat who hold the AGW daily soundbytes and no science. Dam, what an idiot. recent talk about sandy
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