Australian Politics Forum - Muslim unemployment rates in Australia

...

Gold Member

Offline

Posts: 23673
WA
Gender: male

Re: Muslim unemployment rates in Australia
Reply #30 - Oct 17^th, 2012 at 10:57am

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Oct 17^th, 2012 at 10:50am:

... wrote on Oct 17^th, 2012 at 10:05am:

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Oct 17^th, 2012 at 5:41am:

... wrote on Oct 16^th, 2012 at 7:41pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Oct 16^th, 2012 at 7:32pm:

That is sadly partly true - if we were honest about it. However it also can't be denied that real prejudice against muslims exists.

Absolutely, but if were honest about it, it can't be denied that real prejudice exists against everyone, and by everyone.

Muslims, christians, jews, white people, black people, yellow people, redheads, blondes, brunettes, men, women, long haired, short haired, thong wearers, sandal wearers, high heel wearers - we're even prejudiced by where we see them, the context of it as well as what we see. Preconceptions about people, objects, animals, situations cannot be avoided - for the most part it's not even under the control of the conscious mind.

So what's the problem?

Its always the most judgemental and prejudiced ppl that say this because they cant imagine anyone else NOT being like they are. Prejudice is learned. Children are not prejudiced until they are taught to be by their parents etc. Some arent taught and so arent prejudice and they dont understand the kind of ppl that think everyone is because they are.

SOB

Of course prejudices are learned. It's impossible - not just difficult - IMPOSSIBLE not to learn it. It's not so much taught, it is a 'shortcut' that enables the human brain to assess situations faster than any supercomputer. Maybe that's where I'm going wrong - I assumed you had one. Working to "stamp out prejudice" is as stupid and futile as working to stamp out heartbeats, or respiration.

I think your assessment that "Its always the most judgemental and prejudiced ppl that say this" has some merit, but is a little off base. It's always the people who actually think - not groupthink - who appear the most judgemental and prejudiced. Understanding biology and related fields doesn't make someone any more "prejudiced and judgemental" anymore than a lack of understanding of thes fields makes someon "compassionate" or "tolerant". It just makes them more able to understand the inherent qualities and limitataions of human beings, and therefore embraces the truth, rather than regurgiatating vapid, untruthful slogans to ingratiate themself to the herd.

Yeah that makes sense. Thing is that different ppl judge on different attributes. Theres the ppl that judge on dress (which gets outdated fast) and theres the ppl that judge on color (we know those ones) and theres the ones that judge on what those ppl do or say.

SOB

I think you'll find everyone judges by a million different criteria, including the ones you mentioned. The weighting they give to each will vary depending on the individuals own knowledge and experience.

But imploring people to disregard that knowledge and experience by "stamping out prejudice" is doomed to failure, and all you get is a bunch of lies. People can say all the right things - but their body language betrays their true feelings every time.

Back to top

In the fullness of time...

IP Logged

Sir Spot of Borg

Gold Member

Offline

WE ARE BORG

Posts: 26576
Australia

Re: Muslim unemployment rates in Australia
Reply #31 - Oct 17^th, 2012 at 11:14am

Soren wrote on Oct 17^th, 2012 at 11:00am:

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Oct 17^th, 2012 at 10:54am:

abu_rashid wrote on Oct 17^th, 2012 at 10:40am:

Prejudices are inevitable, discriminating against people based on them is not.

Yeah that is a point too. IMO it depends what you are basing those prejudices on. If its from their past (resume) or how they look or what you think they believe . . . .

I used to hire about 60 ppl a day in Darwin for labouring jobs. I mostly took the aboriginals first because I knew they would work the entire day and not complain. The tourists were last because they were the ones that didnt really want to work and were always whining. Usually german tourists came looking for work because the beer costs more than they thought it would and they just wanted a few more dollars and they invariably used to disappear into the pub @ lunchtime.

i have no idea whatsoever whether i ever hired a muslim. I never asked anyone their religion and nobody ever told me their religion.

SOB

So you were prejudiced and discriminatory against Germans!

Well german TOURISTS . .. . not germans altogether.

SOB

Back to top

Whaaaaaah!
I'm a
Moron!

- edited by some unethical admin - you think its funny? - its a slippery slope

IP Logged

...

Gold Member

Offline

Posts: 23673
WA
Gender: male

Re: Muslim unemployment rates in Australia
Reply #32 - Oct 17^th, 2012 at 11:14am

Soren wrote on Oct 17^th, 2012 at 11:00am:

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Oct 17^th, 2012 at 10:54am:

abu_rashid wrote on Oct 17^th, 2012 at 10:40am:

Prejudices are inevitable, discriminating against people based on them is not.

Yeah that is a point too. IMO it depends what you are basing those prejudices on. If its from their past (resume) or how they look or what you think they believe . . . .

I used to hire about 60 ppl a day in Darwin for labouring jobs. I mostly took the aboriginals first because I knew they would work the entire day and not complain. The tourists were last because they were the ones that didnt really want to work and were always whining. Usually german tourists came looking for work because the beer costs more than they thought it would and they just wanted a few more dollars and they invariably used to disappear into the pub @ lunchtime.

i have no idea whatsoever whether i ever hired a muslim. I never asked anyone their religion and nobody ever told me their religion.

SOB

So you were prejudiced and discriminatory against Germans!

Not only that, he's prejudiced and discrimnatory in favour of aboriginals. Thats fine if that's what his experiences told him - but you can't expect everyone to have the same experiences. I also had the 'pleasure' of hiring an abo - he made it till smoko on his first day when we sent him to the shop with our money - he took the money and never came back. Can't blame me that this, and other experiences colour my view.

Back to top

In the fullness of time...

IP Logged

Sir Spot of Borg

Gold Member

Offline

WE ARE BORG

Posts: 26576
Australia

Re: Muslim unemployment rates in Australia
Reply #33 - Oct 17^th, 2012 at 11:36am

... wrote on Oct 17^th, 2012 at 11:14am:

Soren wrote on Oct 17^th, 2012 at 11:00am:

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Oct 17^th, 2012 at 10:54am:

abu_rashid wrote on Oct 17^th, 2012 at 10:40am:

Prejudices are inevitable, discriminating against people based on them is not.

Yeah that is a point too. IMO it depends what you are basing those prejudices on. If its from their past (resume) or how they look or what you think they believe . . . .

I used to hire about 60 ppl a day in Darwin for labouring jobs. I mostly took the aboriginals first because I knew they would work the entire day and not complain. The tourists were last because they were the ones that didnt really want to work and were always whining. Usually german tourists came looking for work because the beer costs more than they thought it would and they just wanted a few more dollars and they invariably used to disappear into the pub @ lunchtime.

i have no idea whatsoever whether i ever hired a muslim. I never asked anyone their religion and nobody ever told me their religion.

SOB

So you were prejudiced and discriminatory against Germans!

Not only that, he's prejudiced and discrimnatory in favour of aboriginals. Thats fine if that's what his experiences told him - but you can't expect everyone to have the same experiences. I also had the 'pleasure' of hiring an abo - he made it till smoko on his first day when we sent him to the shop with our money - he took the money and never came back. Can't blame me that this, and other experiences colour my view.

Well that was my point. I still hired the tourists sometimes. Nearly always got burned though. 60 labourers a day isnt easy to get in a place like darwin in the 80s so I had to take what I could get mostly.

SOB

Back to top

Whaaaaaah!
I'm a
Moron!

- edited by some unethical admin - you think its funny? - its a slippery slope

IP Logged

Big Dave

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 2164
Gender: male

Re: Muslim unemployment rates in Australia
Reply #34 - Oct 17^th, 2012 at 12:53pm

Big Dave wrote on Oct 17^th, 2012 at 8:40am:

There's 2 reasons why people are unemployed in australia- 1 you don't wanna OR 2- you are unemployable.

Muslim women are mostly not allowed to work. Her sole duties include having kids and serving her family. That explains their high unemployment rate.

Muslim men on the other hand have such issues as not being about to speak english and poor education. Plus the bad attitudes towards being part of Australian society.

The religion must get in the way of working also. When you have religious meetings that fall during the week it must affect their ability to hold a 9 to 5 job. There's a tonne of issues.
The prejudice argument is just rubbish.

I'll post this again because the whole thread got derailed. How about we talk about some of the issues I mentioned like how muslim women aren't allowed to work. How about the issue of poor english skills and poor educational qualifications. But the same do-gooders on here will blame australian society as usual.

Back to top

IP Logged

abu_rashid

Gold Member

Offline

Aussie Muslim

Posts: 8353

Re: Muslim unemployment rates in Australia
Reply #35 - Oct 17^th, 2012 at 1:10pm

Big Dave wrote on Oct 17^th, 2012 at 12:53pm:

Big Dave wrote on Oct 17^th, 2012 at 8:40am:

There's 2 reasons why people are unemployed in australia- 1 you don't wanna OR 2- you are unemployable.

Muslim women are mostly not allowed to work. Her sole duties include having kids and serving her family. That explains their high unemployment rate.

Muslim men on the other hand have such issues as not being about to speak english and poor education. Plus the bad attitudes towards being part of Australian society.

The religion must get in the way of working also. When you have religious meetings that fall during the week it must affect their ability to hold a 9 to 5 job. There's a tonne of issues.
The prejudice argument is just rubbish.

I'll post this again because the whole thread got derailed. How about we talk about some of the issues I mentioned like how muslim women aren't allowed to work. How about the issue of poor english skills and poor educational qualifications. But the same do-gooders on here will blame australian society as usual.

And it's just as full of bovine faeces now as it was when you first posted it.

If a mother/wife wishes to stay at home and look after her family, what's your problem with that? It's none of your business.

I'm a Muslim man and have no problem speaking English nor a poor education nor a bad attitude towards Australian society.

I also attend Friday prayer each week, and work 9-5... no problem for me, and never has been. Are there actually jobs that don't permit a lunch hour?

Back to top

IP Logged

Postmodern Trendoid III

Gold Member

Offline

Posts: 10300
Gender: male

Re: Muslim unemployment rates in Australia
Reply #36 - Oct 17^th, 2012 at 1:12pm

abu_rashid wrote on Oct 17^th, 2012 at 1:10pm:

Big Dave wrote on Oct 17^th, 2012 at 12:53pm:

Big Dave wrote on Oct 17^th, 2012 at 8:40am:

There's 2 reasons why people are unemployed in australia- 1 you don't wanna OR 2- you are unemployable.

Muslim women are mostly not allowed to work. Her sole duties include having kids and serving her family. That explains their high unemployment rate.

Muslim men on the other hand have such issues as not being about to speak english and poor education. Plus the bad attitudes towards being part of Australian society.

The religion must get in the way of working also. When you have religious meetings that fall during the week it must affect their ability to hold a 9 to 5 job. There's a tonne of issues.
The prejudice argument is just rubbish.

I'll post this again because the whole thread got derailed. How about we talk about some of the issues I mentioned like how muslim women aren't allowed to work. How about the issue of poor english skills and poor educational qualifications. But the same do-gooders on here will blame australian society as usual.

And it's just as full of bovine faeces now as it was when you first posted it.

If a mother/wife wishes to stay at home and look after her family, what's your problem with that? It's none of your business.

I'm a Muslim man and have no problem speaking English nor a poor education nor a bad attitude towards Australian society.

I also attend Friday prayer each week, and work 9-5... no problem for me, and never has been. Are there actually jobs that don't permit a lunch hour?

Abu's comedy routine continues.

Back to top

IP Logged

Sir Spot of Borg

Gold Member

Offline

WE ARE BORG

Posts: 26576
Australia

Re: Muslim unemployment rates in Australia
Reply #37 - Oct 17^th, 2012 at 1:23pm

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Oct 17^th, 2012 at 1:12pm:

abu_rashid wrote on Oct 17^th, 2012 at 1:10pm:

Big Dave wrote on Oct 17^th, 2012 at 12:53pm:

Big Dave wrote on Oct 17^th, 2012 at 8:40am:

There's 2 reasons why people are unemployed in australia- 1 you don't wanna OR 2- you are unemployable.

Muslim women are mostly not allowed to work. Her sole duties include having kids and serving her family. That explains their high unemployment rate.

Muslim men on the other hand have such issues as not being about to speak english and poor education. Plus the bad attitudes towards being part of Australian society.

The religion must get in the way of working also. When you have religious meetings that fall during the week it must affect their ability to hold a 9 to 5 job. There's a tonne of issues.
The prejudice argument is just rubbish.

I'll post this again because the whole thread got derailed. How about we talk about some of the issues I mentioned like how muslim women aren't allowed to work. How about the issue of poor english skills and poor educational qualifications. But the same do-gooders on here will blame australian society as usual.

And it's just as full of bovine faeces now as it was when you first posted it.

If a mother/wife wishes to stay at home and look after her family, what's your problem with that? It's none of your business.

I'm a Muslim man and have no problem speaking English nor a poor education nor a bad attitude towards Australian society.

I also attend Friday prayer each week, and work 9-5... no problem for me, and never has been. Are there actually jobs that don't permit a lunch hour?

Abu's comedy routine continues.

How is it a comedy routine? Looks legit to me . . . .

SOB

Back to top

Whaaaaaah!
I'm a
Moron!

- edited by some unethical admin - you think its funny? - its a slippery slope

IP Logged

Big Dave

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 2164
Gender: male

Re: Muslim unemployment rates in Australia
Reply #38 - Oct 17^th, 2012 at 2:14pm

abu_rashid wrote on Oct 17^th, 2012 at 1:10pm:

Big Dave wrote on Oct 17^th, 2012 at 12:53pm:

Big Dave wrote on Oct 17^th, 2012 at 8:40am:

There's 2 reasons why people are unemployed in australia- 1 you don't wanna OR 2- you are unemployable.

Muslim women are mostly not allowed to work. Her sole duties include having kids and serving her family. That explains their high unemployment rate.

Muslim men on the other hand have such issues as not being about to speak english and poor education. Plus the bad attitudes towards being part of Australian society.

The religion must get in the way of working also. When you have religious meetings that fall during the week it must affect their ability to hold a 9 to 5 job. There's a tonne of issues.
The prejudice argument is just rubbish.

I'll post this again because the whole thread got derailed. How about we talk about some of the issues I mentioned like how muslim women aren't allowed to work. How about the issue of poor english skills and poor educational qualifications. But the same do-gooders on here will blame australian society as usual.

And it's just as full of bovine faeces now as it was when you first posted it.

If a mother/wife wishes to stay at home and look after her family, what's your problem with that? It's none of your business.

I'm a Muslim man and have no problem speaking English nor a poor education nor a bad attitude towards Australian society.

I also attend Friday prayer each week, and work 9-5... no problem for me, and never has been. Are there actually jobs that don't permit a lunch hour?

Why the high unemployment rates then?

Back to top

IP Logged

abu_rashid

Gold Member

Offline

Aussie Muslim

Posts: 8353

Re: Muslim unemployment rates in Australia
Reply #39 - Oct 18^th, 2012 at 8:57am

Big Dave wrote on Oct 17^th, 2012 at 2:14pm:

Why the high unemployment rates then?

I've already highlighted above what I think the statistics are a result of.

I think it's refugees who have a high unemployment rate (not surprisingly), not Muslims. Just so happens quite a few Muslims are refugees.

I personally don't know of any adult Muslim male in my circles who is unemployed, and I know very few without a university education. Then again, I don't know a lot of refugees, most Muslims I know were born here or at least raised for a significant portion of their lives here, or were recent arrivals for professional reasons (ie. came specifically for a certain job).

And regardless of all this, it's still completely irrelevant to me. All that's important to me is my own employment, I am no more responsible for the employment of people I never met, nor control, than I am for your employment. Only a very simple but twisted mind would think otherwise.

Back to top

IP Logged

Big Dave

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 2164
Gender: male

Re: Muslim unemployment rates in Australia
Reply #40 - Oct 18^th, 2012 at 1:57pm

I'll tell you something about me Abu, your blue blood australian like Allan Jones have never did anything for me. I don't feel any connection to them at all and I'm a blonde haired australian male. In the time of my youth they had this idea that some people would run the show while everybody else filled the factories. Many naturally intelligent people fell through the cracks because of education inequity. Even the dummies from good schools ended up in power. It's changing now luckily.The people that have migrated to australia don't follow any of that . Many speak to you on their level and their manners are amazing. Those people be it aboriginal, muslim or whatever are strong and worthy of respect. But followers are all the same no matter the religon or race.

Back to top

IP Logged

abu_rashid

Gold Member

Offline

Aussie Muslim

Posts: 8353

Re: Muslim unemployment rates in Australia
Reply #41 - Oct 18^th, 2012 at 2:23pm

Dave,

That's all good and well, but what does it have to do with you quizzing me about unemployed Muslims?

And in response to your points there, the simple fact is there's always going to be followers and leaders, that's the way society works. I don't understand your gripe with that. Yes sometimes people make it into positions of leadership based on criteria other than their intelligence or suitability for leadership, that's life.

Now back to the actual topic..

Do you recognise that when refugees come here, they usually know little/no English, usually have no education and usually have been through very traumatic experiences? Therefore finding work is not as simple for them as it is for you or I. Now I'm sure it's really important that our society does something to get them working and integrated into the workforce, but sitting around blaming it on their particular religious background, and by extension attempting to relate that to all people of the same religious beliefs, really ain't what needs to be done. No matter how much you think it helps, it does not.

Back to top

« Last Edit: Oct 18^th, 2012 at 2:33pm by abu_rashid »

IP Logged

Big Dave

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 2164
Gender: male

Re: Muslim unemployment rates in Australia
Reply #42 - Oct 18^th, 2012 at 4:03pm

Fact is Abu certain groups in Australia have high unemployment rates. Muslim migrant groups feature highly while other migrant groups have low rates. It's not only refugees either. Crime rates are alarming too. Instead of arguing about it with me how about offering some reasons. That's what the thread is about. I've got to say, after reading Aussiemuslim I'm not surprised. I think many just don't want to. Blind followers like I alluded to in my last rant.

Back to top

IP Logged

abu_rashid

Gold Member

Offline

Aussie Muslim

Posts: 8353

Re: Muslim unemployment rates in Australia
Reply #43 - Oct 18^th, 2012 at 4:54pm

Can you show some statistics to prove it is not mostly refugees?

Why would I need to offer reasons? Again this simple and twisted mentality, that as a Muslim, I'm somehow responsible for someone elses unemployment. I'm employed, not my problem, sorry.

So from reading Aussiemuslims, you think you can determine the employment status of people? You're a simpleton, seriously.

Back to top

IP Logged

Big Dave Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 2164 Gender:	Re: Muslim unemployment rates in Australia Reply #44 - Oct 18^th, 2012 at 5:55pm You're twisting it all up again. You just can't give a straight answer can you. This thread is about high muslim unemployment. If you can't offer something then kafur off somewhere else! I can't help it if lebbo's don't like working.
Back to top	IP Logged