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Australia's problem with racism (Read 36120 times)

Sir Spot of Borg

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Re: Australia's problem with racism
Reply #75 - Jul 8^th, 2012 at 3:27pm

Quote:

Again you are missing the point Spot. Wanting to be here and wanting to overthrow the government are not mutually exclusive. Insisting that we can gloss over a fundamental rejection of freedom and democracy on the grounds that people make tough choices is kind of naive don't you think?

You are assuming that all muslim immigrants are in a huge conspiracy to overthrow australia. There is no massive conspiracy freediver. Whether this is a "free democracy" is debatable though. I havent ever met a muslim that wanted to overthrow the australian way of life. There are plenty of aussie non-muslims that are unhappy with it though.

Quote:

How many worldly, well travelled boat people do you know of?

Not your usual kind of question. Did you make a mistake? They have the american propaganda in the countries they come from sometimes and the ones they travel through. They know that this is supposed to be a democracy. Most choose to go to america according to the stats i have seen but thats prolly because the yanks have more propaganda out there and they are prolly easier to get to.

Anyway - since you have completely derailed the topic from RACISM I will point out that "muslim" is not a race. It is a religion.

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Dooley

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Re: Australia's problem with racism
Reply #76 - Jul 8^th, 2012 at 4:10pm

I'll entertain you're devils advocacy position

The culture I enjoy allows me to not be concerned - or even care about - what you think is important. A form of disengaged mutual respect. Compassionate wisdom. Freedom from the risk of oppression (once ensured by a modicum of distance - but no longer) due to an ambivalence toward authority. A love of outdoor activities. A level of community engagement that is distanced from ties or obligation from political or religious fraternity. Respect for the natural environment. Work to live not live to work.

In short, a culture that only really exists in some regional towns of Oz but was once extant across the whole of Oz.

however it is worthy to note that is in all religious tracts to declare god above all else. even unto death.

So what?

And then?

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Soren

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Re: Australia's problem with racism
Reply #77 - Jul 8^th, 2012 at 4:43pm

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jul 8^th, 2012 at 3:27pm:

Quote:

Again you are missing the point Spot. Wanting to be here and wanting to overthrow the government are not mutually exclusive. Insisting that we can gloss over a fundamental rejection of freedom and democracy on the grounds that people make tough choices is kind of naive don't you think?

You are assuming that all muslim immigrants are in a huge conspiracy to overthrow australia. There is no massive conspiracy freediver. Whether this is a "free democracy" is debatable though. I havent ever met a muslim that wanted to overthrow the australian way of life.

You haven't been reading abu's and falah's posts.

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falah

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Re: Australia's problem with racism
Reply #78 - Jul 8^th, 2012 at 4:52pm

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jul 8^th, 2012 at 3:27pm:

Quote:

Again you are missing the point Spot. Wanting to be here and wanting to overthrow the government are not mutually exclusive. Insisting that we can gloss over a fundamental rejection of freedom and democracy on the grounds that people make tough choices is kind of naive don't you think?

You are assuming that all muslim immigrants are in a huge conspiracy to overthrow australia. There is no massive conspiracy freediver. Whether this is a "free democracy" is debatable though. I havent ever met a muslim that wanted to overthrow the australian way of life. There are plenty of aussie non-muslims that are unhappy with it though.

Good point. In over a decade of living in Australia's Muslim community, and visiting nearly every mosque on the continent, I have never once come across Muslims talking about overthrowing the Australian government.

In fact, the only discourse that I am aware of the notion of supporting law and order, and speaking out against corruption and oppression when it is necessary.

I am sure there are plenty of anarchists and communists etc. who would love to overthrow the Australian government, but nobody seems concerned about them.

When it comes to violent overthrowing of government there are dozens of examples from communists, secularists, Christians and Jews. You would struggle to find in history a violent overthrow of government by Muslims.

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falah

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Re: Australia's problem with racism
Reply #79 - Jul 8^th, 2012 at 4:54pm

Soren wrote on Jul 8^th, 2012 at 4:43pm:

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jul 8^th, 2012 at 3:27pm:

Quote:

Again you are missing the point Spot. Wanting to be here and wanting to overthrow the government are not mutually exclusive. Insisting that we can gloss over a fundamental rejection of freedom and democracy on the grounds that people make tough choices is kind of naive don't you think?

You are assuming that all muslim immigrants are in a huge conspiracy to overthrow australia. There is no massive conspiracy freediver. Whether this is a "free democracy" is debatable though. I havent ever met a muslim that wanted to overthrow the australian way of life.

You haven't been reading abu's and falah's posts.

Sore One/ Freeliar your lies expose you for miserable fear-mongerer that you are.

I challenge you to produce one post where I have called for the overthrow of the Australian government.

Nothing is worthy of worship except God Almighty - our Creator!

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Soren

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Re: Australia's problem with racism
Reply #80 - Jul 8^th, 2012 at 5:07pm

Not all cultures are equal.

Cultures and races go together to a large extent. You can tell most white people's cultural background (European), Blacks - African, Arabs - Arab, Chinese - Chinese, Indians - Indian and so forth. No mystery there. Within each culture there is a further hierarchy. High culture, middle-brow, low-brow, lumpen.

Inferior cultures are very often defended on racial grounds and excuses are made for the whole spectrum of the inferior culture - from the aristocratic to the lumpen - on the basis of race.

SO for example, an Islamist like Abu will attack the entire spectrum of western civilisation on the basis of the lady gaga/ drunken yob (lumpen) demographic and will defend the entire Islamic culture, including the jihadi, illiterate Talibans. Some white people will defend their own lumpen proles against the high culture of China or India or Persia.

'Racism' is made up of culture plus class plus colour, not just colour. The essential point is that culture and class can be overcome, even if colour can't. That is why colour is the least important element of 'racism'. Aboriginese are an excellent example: they can be senators and petrol sniffers.

Immigrants can be stuck-in-the-mud anachronisms (ie stick out like dogs' balls) or they can be successful by adapting and contributing.

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Soren

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Re: Australia's problem with racism
Reply #81 - Jul 8^th, 2012 at 5:08pm

falah wrote on Jul 8^th, 2012 at 4:54pm:

Soren wrote on Jul 8^th, 2012 at 4:43pm:

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jul 8^th, 2012 at 3:27pm:

Quote:

Again you are missing the point Spot. Wanting to be here and wanting to overthrow the government are not mutually exclusive. Insisting that we can gloss over a fundamental rejection of freedom and democracy on the grounds that people make tough choices is kind of naive don't you think?

You are assuming that all muslim immigrants are in a huge conspiracy to overthrow australia. There is no massive conspiracy freediver. Whether this is a "free democracy" is debatable though. I havent ever met a muslim that wanted to overthrow the australian way of life.

You haven't been reading abu's and falah's posts.

Sore One/ Freeliar your lies expose you for miserable fear-mongerer that you are.

I challenge you to produce one post where I have called for the overthrow of the Australian government.

So you support democracy then? You will defend it against any dictatorship of the caliphate?

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falah

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Re: Australia's problem with racism
Reply #82 - Jul 8^th, 2012 at 5:25pm

Soren wrote on Jul 8^th, 2012 at 5:08pm:

falah wrote on Jul 8^th, 2012 at 4:54pm:

Soren wrote on Jul 8^th, 2012 at 4:43pm:

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jul 8^th, 2012 at 3:27pm:

Quote:

Again you are missing the point Spot. Wanting to be here and wanting to overthrow the government are not mutually exclusive. Insisting that we can gloss over a fundamental rejection of freedom and democracy on the grounds that people make tough choices is kind of naive don't you think?

You are assuming that all muslim immigrants are in a huge conspiracy to overthrow australia. There is no massive conspiracy freediver. Whether this is a "free democracy" is debatable though. I havent ever met a muslim that wanted to overthrow the australian way of life.

You haven't been reading abu's and falah's posts.

Sore One/ Freeliar your lies expose you for miserable fear-mongerer that you are.

I challenge you to produce one post where I have called for the overthrow of the Australian government.

So you support democracy then? You will defend it against any dictatorship of the caliphate?

LOL

Do you even see your own hypocrisy.

You are one to talk about democracy?

You would deceive people into thinking that you are some great supporter of democracy on the one hand.

But on the other hand, you support the Israeli apartheid that prevents most Palestinians living from voting in Israeli elections.

Sore One/Freeliar, do you support giving Palestinians the right to vote in Israeli elections or do you support the apartheid system currently in place?

Nothing is worthy of worship except God Almighty - our Creator!

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freediver

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Re: Australia's problem with racism
Reply #83 - Jul 8^th, 2012 at 7:23pm

Quote:

You are assuming that all muslim immigrants are in a huge conspiracy to overthrow australia.

No I'm not Spot. It does not take a huge conspiracy to cause us problems. However, they do share a common ideological goal of destroying democracy and freedom. It is hardly a conspiracy seeing as they openly admit it, but you can call it that if you want.

Quote:

I havent ever met a muslim that wanted to overthrow the australian way of life.

Yes you have Spot. You just have your blinkers on as usual and cannot see what is right in front of you. Or perhaps you cannot tell the difference between wanting to overthrow the government and heading to Canberra with a gun. Both Abu and Falah not only want this to happen, they see it as inevitable.

abu_rashid wrote on Jun 27^th, 2012 at 8:21pm:

What nonsense. I would never degrade the good name of Islam by associating it with these disastrous ideals of freedom and democracy.

Quote:

Anyway - since you have completely derailed the topic from RACISM I will point out that "muslim" is not a race. It is a religion.

I agree Spot. We don't have a problem with racism, merely with people who oppose freedom and democracy on ideological grounds, and with people who refuse to acknowledge the reality of this situation.

Quote:

And then?

Dooley I was trying to encourage you to explain what your point was.

Falah:

Quote:

Good point. In over a decade of living in Australia's Muslim community, and visiting nearly every mosque on the continent, I have never once come across Muslims talking about overthrowing the Australian government.

LOL. Nice way to avoid the point Falah. I'm sure spot will interpret this to mean there is no interest or intent for this to happen in the future.

Quote:

When it comes to violent overthrowing of government there are dozens of examples from communists, secularists, Christians and Jews. You would struggle to find in history a violent overthrow of government by Muslims.

That's because they have been politically impotent for a few centuries. Prior to that of course there is a whole millenia of violence.

Quote:

I challenge you to produce one post where I have called for the overthrow of the Australian government.

That is not what he was actually talking about Falah. But seeing as you have brought it up, can you explain whether you would prefer Australia to have an Islamic system of government rather than a democracy? Or would that undermine your little propaganda story about not talking about these things? I have asked you about the Islamically appropriate mechanism to achieve your desired change plenty of times, but you always go all shy on me. Perhaps that is so you can claim you have never even talked about it.

People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

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Soren

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Re: Australia's problem with racism
Reply #84 - Jul 8^th, 2012 at 10:02pm

falah wrote on Jul 8^th, 2012 at 5:25pm:

Soren wrote on Jul 8^th, 2012 at 5:08pm:

falah wrote on Jul 8^th, 2012 at 4:54pm:

Soren wrote on Jul 8^th, 2012 at 4:43pm:

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jul 8^th, 2012 at 3:27pm:

Quote:

Again you are missing the point Spot. Wanting to be here and wanting to overthrow the government are not mutually exclusive. Insisting that we can gloss over a fundamental rejection of freedom and democracy on the grounds that people make tough choices is kind of naive don't you think?

You are assuming that all muslim immigrants are in a huge conspiracy to overthrow australia. There is no massive conspiracy freediver. Whether this is a "free democracy" is debatable though. I havent ever met a muslim that wanted to overthrow the australian way of life.

You haven't been reading abu's and falah's posts.

Sore One/ Freeliar your lies expose you for miserable fear-mongerer that you are.

I challenge you to produce one post where I have called for the overthrow of the Australian government.

So you support democracy then? You will defend it against any dictatorship of the caliphate?

LOL

Do you even see your own hypocrisy.

You are one to talk about democracy?

You would deceive people into thinking that you are some great supporter of democracy on the one hand.

But on the other hand, you support the Israeli apartheid that prevents most Palestinians living from voting in Israeli elections.

Sore One/Freeliar, do you support giving Palestinians the right to vote in Israeli elections or do you support the apartheid system currently in place?

Sounds like you are supporting democracy, then. Here in Australia. Always. Democracy ahead of caliphate. Yes?

Abu won't like it. Or is it only so long as you can undermine democracy? Are you lying as a Muslim or are you lying in your own time, as a galah?

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Dooley

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Re: Australia's problem with racism
Reply #85 - Jul 9^th, 2012 at 1:42am

it is my opinion that the conundrum (having to swear allegiance to a country and it's people above their faith) plus the added religious obligation to never engage in this form of heresy would go a long way to preventing any type of religious zealot from gaining any sort of traction within our society. I understand is it acknowledged and acceptable for a muslim to lie to heretics and non-believers over trivial matters, I am however of the strong belief that it is never permissible for a muslim to swear an allegiance that demands an observance of something (in this case the law and peoples of Oz) above their story teller or the make believe god.

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Sir Spot of Borg

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Re: Australia's problem with racism
Reply #86 - Jul 9^th, 2012 at 4:53am

Dooley wrote on Jul 9^th, 2012 at 1:42am:

it is my opinion that the conundrum (having to swear allegiance to a country and it's people above their faith) plus the added religious obligation to never engage in this form of heresy would go a long way to preventing any type of religious zealot from gaining any sort of traction within our society. I understand is it acknowledged and acceptable for a muslim to lie to heretics and non-believers over trivial matters, I am however of the strong belief that it is never permissible for a muslim to swear an allegiance that demands an observance of something (in this case the law and peoples of Oz) above their story teller or the make believe god.

Dont we already have an oath of allegiance thing when you become a citizen?

SOB

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Sir Spot of Borg

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Re: Australia's problem with racism
Reply #87 - Jul 9^th, 2012 at 5:05am

Quote:

However, they do share a common ideological goal of destroying democracy and freedom

That is bull. No muslim cares if we vote or not.

Quote:

Both Abu and Falah not only want this to happen, they see it as inevitable.

they represent all muslims do they? How come I havent heard of them on the news? the muslims I know dont want to destroy anything. They want to live in peace.

Quote:

LOL. Nice way to avoid the point Falah. I'm sure spot will interpret this to mean there is no interest or intent for this to happen in the future.

No I saw how that was worded. However it doesnt change the fact that most muslims are not out to get us. They certainly dont have a problem with us voting. they7 come here to this country knowing what it is like here. the immigrants could have left if it wasnt to their liking.

He may also word everything very carefully because he is being stalked by you and your word manipulating ways.

Quote:

That's because they have been politically impotent for a few centuries. Prior to that of course there is a whole millenia of violence.

Bit like EVERY religion dont you think?

Quote:

That is not what he was actually talking about Falah.

Suddenly you can read and comprehend what im saying?

Well anyway @ the end of the day you have shown me no evidence that muslims are going to bring our downfall any more than anyone else or that I should hate them. Hopefully religions are on their way out.

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freediver

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Re: Australia's problem with racism
Reply #88 - Jul 9^th, 2012 at 8:56am

Quote:

Sounds like you are supporting democracy, then.

Falah often makes it sound like he supports freedom and democracy. But he would not actually say that, as that would be deceptive.

Quote:

I am however of the strong belief that it is never permissible for a muslim to swear an allegiance that demands an observance of something (in this case the law and peoples of Oz) above their story teller or the make believe god.

Abu has claimed that Islam actually requires them to obey local laws wherever they live, with obvious exceptions. He has not explained how Islam plans for changing those laws.

Quote:

That is bull. No muslim cares if we vote or not.

Yes they do. How many times do I have to post this quote for you to acknowledge the reality?

abu_rashid wrote on Jun 27^th, 2012 at 8:21pm:

What nonsense. I would never degrade the good name of Islam by associating it with these disastrous ideals of freedom and democracy.

Do you think Muslims have no interest in expanding Islam to get rid of these 'disastrous ideals'? How naive is that?

Quote:

they represent all muslims do they?

They claim to be mainstream Muslims. They obviously don't represent all Muslims. For example they want to kill shites.

Quote:

the muslims I know dont want to destroy anything. They want to live in peace.

Have you asked them? Do you know more about what they think than Abu and Falah? Or do you prefer to know less so you can insert your own opinion into the blanks? Abu and Falah want to live in peace too - until of course they can start imposing Islam on people.

Quote:

No I saw how that was worded.

Well done spot, you are catching on.

Quote:

Bit like EVERY religion dont you think?

I was referring to the people, not the religion.

Quote:

Well anyway @ the end of the day you have shown me no evidence that muslims are going to bring our downfall any more than anyone else

That's because I don't think they will.

Quote:

or that I should hate them

And neither do I.

People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

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Sir Spot of Borg

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Re: Australia's problem with racism
Reply #89 - Jul 9^th, 2012 at 9:04am

Quote:

That is bull. No muslim cares if we vote or not.

Not sure if i said that or not but it looks like something i would say so:

Quote:

Yes they do. How many times do I have to post this quote for you to acknowledge the reality?

1 forum poster does not mean all muslims think that. Some non muslims are exceptions too.

Besides your quote looks like sarcasm to me. Depends though because they way you use the words i am tempted to say the same thing.

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