Soren wrote on Jul 8^th, 2012 at 11:29am:


How do you know they arent members? There have always been street gangs. The gangs in certain areas now (as always) are populated by the ppl that live in that area.

SOB

... and boot them out if they break their word of allegiance.



once convicted of the offence and they only residents... without delay - if they wanted to appeal the decision they can do that from where they originally come from.

If they were born here, then all privileges of citizenship is revoked ie pensions, welfare benefits, medicare, housing, 50% taxation on all earnings accrued while here oh the list could go on and on and on.......

nationalist, perhaps.  exclusionist, only toward religious zealots and those who oppose freedom.  fascist, i wouldn't think so. My idea of Oz is multicultural by extension not by foundation.

As well it is worth noting that a lot of the Italian and Greeks who came here post WWII were not in held esteem by our forefathers as they Were fascists or fascist sympathizers or nazi or nazi sympathizers. If you ever had the chance to speak to old diggers everyday over a sherbet or two you would remember them having recount to you ( like I have) the stories of what happened when the allied troops walked into the country towns of Italy and Greece as the germans nazis left. It is also worth noting the level of fascist and nazi activity in these european countries now that they are having trouble with their economies. To deny the predisposition of the fractious xenophobic nature of the european nations as something that is incapable of occurring here is foolhardy and naive in the extreme - especially as most of the population of some of our larger cities now are made up of european nationalities.  You only have to observe what happens during soccer competitions in our own backyard to understand how fragile europe is and how thin the civility is here toward ethnic groups of differing RELIGIOUS backgrounds.

And this brings me to my point I previously elaborated upon. However I do not for one moment suggest outlawing religion, only to clarify through declaration of allegiance that no Other belief a citizen has (religious or secular) is above the constitution and laws and Constitution of Oz (further it should be noted I am firmly of the opinion that it should be written into an Oz constitution that we have freedom to undertake any religious belief) to ensure that religious observances can't be outlawed.

It is however counter to every religious adherents belief system as ALL (including christianity) religions believe that the make believe entity (god) is superior in every context and all governments should bend to the will of their religion. Muslims go further than most in supporting the idea that (like Iran and soon to be Egypt and Tunisia and Morocco and Syria) religion and politics is the one and same thing and so therefore it should be administered by misogynistic preachers and other sycophants who can bribe and pander to those in power. Like happens in Saudi Arabia and all other muslim run countries.

But fascist, me? I don't thinks so. What I would like to see however is a much clearer set of Constitutional Laws that outline what a citizens rights and responsibilities are. I would also like a Bill of Rights enshrined into the Constitution. And I would like to see the total and complete separation of church and state - right down to the last penny and sheckle - so ordinary Oz citizens, who quite rightly are sick to death of the encroachment of "rights of religious minorities" overiding the rights of the existing populace can see the arse-end of it.

If that means sending a few hundred malcontents back to were they feel happier - then so be it......

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jul 8^th, 2012 at 11:04am:


Are you trying to be funny SOB? Or have you yet again forgotten the topic at hand? Or are you just trying to avoid another inconvenient question?

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We already have SOB. You responded by getting confused about the topic.

Dooley:

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What about just rejecting people who are fundamentally opposed to freedom and democracy? That is the policy of the sustainability party of Australia. Your is a pretty meaningless declaration. A Muslim could overthrow our government, replace it with an oppressive Islamist regime, and claim to be putting the people of Australia above all else.

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What makes you think they don't want to come here? Plenty do want to come here because their homeland is a political basketcase - because of all the other people like them who reject freedom and democracy, but have a slightly different vision of what sort of oppression to replace it with. For example there are plenty of Sunnis and Shites killing each other, and fleeing from each other. Just because they are fleeing Islamic oppression does not mean they oppose Islamic oppression.

freediver wrote on Jul 8^th, 2012 at 1:58pm:


point taken.

however it is worthy to note that is in all religious tracts to declare god above all else. even unto death. I also believe it is against the Koran to lie about this one thing. That is to publicly declare allegiance to anything above god. It is not just a lie, it is a refutation of the idea that god is above all other things. Additionally no worthy religious adherent would allow their children to live in a society that demands the pledging of allegiance (at school daily while the Oz flag is raised, public ceremonies and occasions) regularly that (in their eyes) would disrespect theri story tellers or their make believe gods.

Muslims take the idea of indoctrination most seriously. To the extent that as soon as a child is born the calling to the prayer is meant to be the first words uttered to it by whispering directly into the ear....... Brainwashing from birth. No mullah would contenance the daily refutation of the superiority of god or a story teller over alegiance to a nation and it's people. And neither would a christian preacher or a sikh.

I could be astoundingly wrong here but I believe One of the most serious differences between the muslim and the hindi people of colonial India that caused the splitting of pakistan from india was the refusal to incorporate an references to god in the Indian declaration of allegiance. No reference to god - no wanna live there. 

So far as taking over the country, that wouldn't happen if we asserted OUR culture by LAW, by explicitly outlining in a Bill of Rights the principle of community above religious doctrine, which I feel would make this country less amenable to the sort of religious zealot (from any faith) currently finding succor here in our country. You keep down the ratio you have less trouble.