John Smith wrote on Jun 22
nd, 2012 at 3:05pm:
tonegunman1 wrote on Jun 22
nd, 2012 at 12:37pm:
John Smith wrote on Jun 22
nd, 2012 at 10:14am:
tonegunman1 wrote on Jun 22
nd, 2012 at 9:58am:
John Smith wrote on Jun 22
nd, 2012 at 9:29am:
tonegunman1 wrote on Jun 22
nd, 2012 at 8:50am:
John Smith wrote on Jun 21
st, 2012 at 6:56pm:
it's only the top (approx) 300 polluters that pay the tax ... your local baker most likely wont be using them, or if he is he'll look for a cheaper alternative (whatyaknow, the tax works), petrol is exempt .... the guy that butters the bread certainly doesn't fall into the top 300 ....
Unless those 300 are prevented from passing on the cost then the cost is not confined to those 300.
The cheaper alternative will end up being an import that does not have this cost as a component of it's price.
So thank you for advocating the relocation of Australian jobs overseas.Petrol already has excise/tax on it and there is GST on this as well so you have a tax on a tax.
the whole point of the tax is to force companies to change their methods .... if the top 300 start loosing market share to smaller companies because of the carbon tax, they are more likely to invest the millions required in updating or researching their production methods .... if we don't do anything, there is NIL incentive for them to do so ... if the larger company decreses it's workforce because of a downturn in market share, the smaller company will more than likely increase its workforce because of the extra demand for its services ...
Power generators fall into that list of top 300. Which is rather ironic since until recently were all government owned. These government owners are not only are responsible for the considerable rundown of infrastucture but of loading these companies with debt by demanding dividends not connected to any profits but to funding budget wishlists in a manner that would have done any pirate proud. These generators are all in the same boat so there is little alternative other than to pay the increase. A major flaw in your argument is confining the impact to only those 300 companies. Other companies will be unable to avoid these increased costs that accumulate across the production chain. This is not the case with imports.
Another flaw is that you assume that the only alternative for companies is to change their methods. This ignores an already growing readiness to move production offshore where labour and compliance costs are also much less and where there is no penalty to put those products back into our market.
The whole point of this is to address a global problem it makes no difference if those same activities are carried out elsewhere.
Considering most of your argument has been about electricity generation and the flow on effect, I have to say it will be a good trick if they can move electricity generation overseas ...I'd like to see that ... how will they import it? Duracell?
I'm type real slow.
Electricity is a very good example.
Goods and services use electricity from electricity generators that have to pay the carbon tax.
This cost to business
is passed on to consumers including businesses that make stuff for consumers or other businesses and so on. These are the subsequent tiers of businesses that can relocate and will have to compete with imported products that do not pay higher production cost attributable to the carbon tax being paid by others supplying them with power and products that have power as a component of the price.
Of course the generators can't relocate and so is unavailable without the passed on carbon tax component to everybody else who uses it.
But your right, imported batteries will not have this cost so will be cheaper than those produced here...if there are any.
Unless your argument is that those who pay the carbon tax cannot legally pass it on?
Because if it is your wrong.
so you think everyone will move overseas because they don't want to pay for Australian electricity ... thats about as likely to hapen as me moving to Pluto ...if all electricity is going up (your claim), that puts all end users in the same position and doesn't disadvantage anyone... and guess what, imported batteries have been cheaper than Australian made batteries for a long time now... the facts are that you have no idea on the end result of the carbon tax... stop pretending you do
No it will be an incentive to shift by those who can because of the greater cost of doing business and producing products including the cost of electricity and the other costs of the carbon tax to be absorbed by the economy.
those that are going to shift will do so anyway ... considering we;ve lost 80%of manufacturing already to overseas scab labour, its highly unlikely the carbon tax is the reason companies move ... think about it ...save $5000 in electricity ... save $5 000 000 in wages ... i wonder what the real reason is
Your already on Pluto having a quiet little tug.
you'd love to watch wouldn't you?
Are you mentally challenged, I wrote Australian electricity is going up
based on what?
but I would be delighted if contrary to what has been announced (not by me) electricity prices do not rise come the 1st of July. So you are disputing a price rise...is that it?...what a relief to everybody.
I think any rise in the cost of electricity will be so negligiable that it won't affect anyboy ... except for maybe some of the smelter operators
Yes all end users
here, a proportion of which (manufacturing) are useful to the economy and make products and provide employment these business have to compete with products that as you already helpfully point out are already cheaper.
so your worried about something thats already on the way dieing? a bit late, why didn't you complain BEFORE howard signed the free trade agreements
So if we both are unsure of the impacts of the carbon tax I take it you will send any money meant to compensate you back because there is nothing to compensate.
I'm going to use it to buy another laptop to annoy you stupid liberal monkies with ...
Your a dimwitted steaming pile aren't ya?.
and yet compared to you I'm a shining light ....
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