Australian Politics Forum - 2 easy to answer CT questions

Sir Spot of Borg Gold Member Offline WE ARE BORG Posts: 26589 Australia	Re: 2 easy to answer CT questions Reply #30 - Jun 22^nd, 2012 at 7:43am Dont you ppl remember the GST? When it came in every greedy bastard and his dog took advantage of the excuse and put their prices up by more than they had to. Its what ppl do. And this one is worse because its not on your docket so you cant call them to account for it. SOB
Back to top	Whaaaaaah! I'm a Moron! - edited by some unethical admin - you think its funny? - its a slippery slope IP Logged

tonegunman1

Senior Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 427

Re: 2 easy to answer CT questions
Reply #31 - Jun 22^nd, 2012 at 8:50am

John Smith wrote on Jun 21^st, 2012 at 6:56pm:

it's only the top (approx) 300 polluters that pay the tax ... your local baker most likely wont be using them, or if he is he'll look for a cheaper alternative (whatyaknow, the tax works), petrol is exempt .... the guy that butters the bread certainly doesn't fall into the top 300 ....

Unless those 300 are prevented from passing on the cost then the cost is not confined to those 300.
The cheaper alternative will end up being an import that does not have this cost as a component of it's price. So thank you for advocating the relocation of Australian jobs overseas.
Petrol already has excise/tax on it and there is GST on this as well so you have a tax on a tax.

Back to top

IP Logged

Gist

Gold Member

Offline

I am not a sock, I am
a human being!

Posts: 5476

Re: 2 easy to answer CT questions
Reply #32 - Jun 22^nd, 2012 at 9:00am

Armchair_Politician wrote on Jun 21^st, 2012 at 9:48pm:

Gist wrote on Jun 21^st, 2012 at 8:19pm:

woof woof wrote on Jun 21^st, 2012 at 6:20pm:

1. How much will the carbon tax increase the cost of a hamburger with the lot?

Hey moronic poster bitch ... out of your $5 for a hamburger, how much of that do you reckon goes to pay for electricity? Given that it costs mebbee 10c per kilowatt hour ... and it takes them 10 minutes to cook it ... and their cooker is probably 1200 watts ... that's 1/6 of 12c ...

Wow! 2 whole CENTS! They can DOUBLE the cost of electricity and it still isn't going to make you blink an eye...

You really are a moronic poster.

Consider someone like a dairy farmer, whose annual electricity bill is easily $20,000-$30,000 and will increase by as much as $5,000 once the carbon tax comes into effect. Can you see milk prices rising by only a couple of cents given this? I wouldn't go around calling people morons when you're not exactly a bright spark yourself!

Really? $20-30K electricity bill? And how much money are they making from this dairy farm? What's the turnover? $20-30K? I don't think so. $100K? Millions? Are you suggesting that a major cost component of your milk for your morning wheaties is the electricity to run the milking machines? The labour costs, fuel costs to deliver it, lease or interest on the farm costs, profits, yadda, yadda, all these other costs are as nothing compared to the electricity to run the MILKING MACHINE???

Ladies and gents we have another moronic poster!

Back to top

"When our military goes to war it should be for purposes and objectives clearly in Australia’s interests, not merely because the Americans want some company" - Malcolm Fraser (2012 Whitlam Oration)

IP Logged

Gist

Gold Member

Offline

I am not a sock, I am
a human being!

Posts: 5476

Re: 2 easy to answer CT questions
Reply #33 - Jun 22^nd, 2012 at 9:03am

tonegunman1 wrote on Jun 22^nd, 2012 at 8:50am:

John Smith wrote on Jun 21^st, 2012 at 6:56pm:

it's only the top (approx) 300 polluters that pay the tax ... your local baker most likely wont be using them, or if he is he'll look for a cheaper alternative (whatyaknow, the tax works), petrol is exempt .... the guy that butters the bread certainly doesn't fall into the top 300 ....

Unless those 300 are prevented from passing on the cost then the cost is not confined to those 300.
The cheaper alternative will end up being an import that does not have this cost as a component of it's price. So thank you for advocating the relocation of Australian jobs overseas.
Petrol already has excise/tax on it and there is GST on this as well so you have a tax on a tax.

But for some reason petrol excise and GST don't send jobs overseas? Care to explain why?

Back to top

"When our military goes to war it should be for purposes and objectives clearly in Australia’s interests, not merely because the Americans want some company" - Malcolm Fraser (2012 Whitlam Oration)

IP Logged

Armchair_Politician

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 29057
Gender: male

Re: 2 easy to answer CT questions
Reply #34 - Jun 22^nd, 2012 at 9:04am

Gist wrote on Jun 22^nd, 2012 at 9:00am:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Jun 21^st, 2012 at 9:48pm:

Gist wrote on Jun 21^st, 2012 at 8:19pm:

woof woof wrote on Jun 21^st, 2012 at 6:20pm:

1. How much will the carbon tax increase the cost of a hamburger with the lot?

Hey moronic poster bitch ... out of your $5 for a hamburger, how much of that do you reckon goes to pay for electricity? Given that it costs mebbee 10c per kilowatt hour ... and it takes them 10 minutes to cook it ... and their cooker is probably 1200 watts ... that's 1/6 of 12c ...

Wow! 2 whole CENTS! They can DOUBLE the cost of electricity and it still isn't going to make you blink an eye...

You really are a moronic poster.

Consider someone like a dairy farmer, whose annual electricity bill is easily $20,000-$30,000 and will increase by as much as $5,000 once the carbon tax comes into effect. Can you see milk prices rising by only a couple of cents given this? I wouldn't go around calling people morons when you're not exactly a bright spark yourself!

Really? $20-30K electricity bill? And how much money are they making from this dairy farm? What's the turnover? $20-30K? I don't think so. $100K? Millions? Are you suggesting that a major cost component of your milk for your morning wheaties is the electricity to run the milking machines? The labour costs, fuel costs to deliver it, lease or interest on the farm costs, profits, yadda, yadda, all these other costs are as nothing compared to the electricity to run the MILKING MACHINE???

Ladies and gents we have another moronic poster!

You have never been to a dairy farm, have you? I have about 100 of them within ten minutes of my house. You have no idea how much the electricity costs to run the milking machines, or the lights that must be on when they start at 4-5am every morning, do you? How about doing some research before making a complete dumba$$ of yourself?

Back to top

IP Logged

Gist

Gold Member

Offline

I am not a sock, I am
a human being!

Posts: 5476

Re: 2 easy to answer CT questions
Reply #35 - Jun 22^nd, 2012 at 9:13am

Armchair_Politician wrote on Jun 22^nd, 2012 at 9:04am:

You have never been to a dairy farm, have you? I have about 100 of them within ten minutes of my house. You have no idea how much the electricity costs to run the milking machines, or the lights that must be on when they start at 4-5am every morning, do you? How about doing some research before making a complete dumba$$ of yourself?

So if you know, how about you educate us? If you KNOW how much it costs, tell us. It's a fairly simple question -

In percentage terms, what component of the price of milk does the electricity cost make up?

80%? 30%? 1%? Next to bugger all?

Back to top

"When our military goes to war it should be for purposes and objectives clearly in Australia’s interests, not merely because the Americans want some company" - Malcolm Fraser (2012 Whitlam Oration)

IP Logged

John Smith

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 78311
Gender: male

Re: 2 easy to answer CT questions
Reply #36 - Jun 22^nd, 2012 at 9:29am

tonegunman1 wrote on Jun 22^nd, 2012 at 8:50am:

John Smith wrote on Jun 21^st, 2012 at 6:56pm:

it's only the top (approx) 300 polluters that pay the tax ... your local baker most likely wont be using them, or if he is he'll look for a cheaper alternative (whatyaknow, the tax works), petrol is exempt .... the guy that butters the bread certainly doesn't fall into the top 300 ....

Unless those 300 are prevented from passing on the cost then the cost is not confined to those 300.
The cheaper alternative will end up being an import that does not have this cost as a component of it's price. So thank you for advocating the relocation of Australian jobs overseas.Petrol already has excise/tax on it and there is GST on this as well so you have a tax on a tax.

the whole point of the tax is to force companies to change their methods .... if the top 300 start loosing market share to smaller companies because of the carbon tax, they are more likely to invest the millions required in updating or researching their production methods .... if we don't do anything, there is NIL incentive for them to do so ... if the larger company decreses it's workforce because of a downturn in market share, the smaller company will more than likely increase its workforce because of the extra demand for its services ...

Back to top

Our esteemed leader:
I hope that bitch who was running their brothels for them gets raped with a cactus.

IP Logged

John Smith

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 78311
Gender: male

Re: 2 easy to answer CT questions
Reply #37 - Jun 22^nd, 2012 at 9:31am

Armchair_Politician wrote on Jun 22^nd, 2012 at 9:04am:

Gist wrote on Jun 22^nd, 2012 at 9:00am:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Jun 21^st, 2012 at 9:48pm:

Gist wrote on Jun 21^st, 2012 at 8:19pm:

woof woof wrote on Jun 21^st, 2012 at 6:20pm:

1. How much will the carbon tax increase the cost of a hamburger with the lot?

Hey moronic poster bitch ... out of your $5 for a hamburger, how much of that do you reckon goes to pay for electricity? Given that it costs mebbee 10c per kilowatt hour ... and it takes them 10 minutes to cook it ... and their cooker is probably 1200 watts ... that's 1/6 of 12c ...

Wow! 2 whole CENTS! They can DOUBLE the cost of electricity and it still isn't going to make you blink an eye...

You really are a moronic poster.

Consider someone like a dairy farmer, whose annual electricity bill is easily $20,000-$30,000 and will increase by as much as $5,000 once the carbon tax comes into effect. Can you see milk prices rising by only a couple of cents given this? I wouldn't go around calling people morons when you're not exactly a bright spark yourself!

Really? $20-30K electricity bill? And how much money are they making from this dairy farm? What's the turnover? $20-30K? I don't think so. $100K? Millions? Are you suggesting that a major cost component of your milk for your morning wheaties is the electricity to run the milking machines? The labour costs, fuel costs to deliver it, lease or interest on the farm costs, profits, yadda, yadda, all these other costs are as nothing compared to the electricity to run the MILKING MACHINE???

Ladies and gents we have another moronic poster!

You have never been to a dairy farm, have you? I have about 100 of them within ten minutes of my house. You have no idea how much the electricity costs to run the milking machines, or the lights that must be on when they start at 4-5am every morning, do you? How about doing some research before making a complete dumba$$ of yourself?

maybe the dairy industry can look at ways of converting all that mehtane from the cows to clean energy instead of whining .. lower their costs and reduce pollution .... isn't that the whole point of the tax?

Back to top

Our esteemed leader:
I hope that bitch who was running their brothels for them gets raped with a cactus.

IP Logged

tonegunman1

Senior Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 427

Re: 2 easy to answer CT questions
Reply #38 - Jun 22^nd, 2012 at 9:34am

Gist wrote on Jun 22^nd, 2012 at 9:03am:

tonegunman1 wrote on Jun 22^nd, 2012 at 8:50am:

John Smith wrote on Jun 21^st, 2012 at 6:56pm:

it's only the top (approx) 300 polluters that pay the tax ... your local baker most likely wont be using them, or if he is he'll look for a cheaper alternative (whatyaknow, the tax works), petrol is exempt .... the guy that butters the bread certainly doesn't fall into the top 300 ....

Unless those 300 are prevented from passing on the cost then the cost is not confined to those 300.
The cheaper alternative will end up being an import that does not have this cost as a component of it's price. So thank you for advocating the relocation of Australian jobs overseas.
Petrol already has excise/tax on it and there is GST on this as well so you have a tax on a tax.

But for some reason petrol excise and GST don't send jobs overseas? Care to explain why?

Petrol excise has similar imposts in the vast majority of countries. So imports have this as a factor in their cost.
The GST applies at the point of purchase by the consumer and this applies equally whether the goods were made here or overseas when bought here. So there is no differentiation with the major exception of online sales and this is impacting significantly and increasingly in offshoring jobs.
The carbon tax impacts only on domestic production and it is apparently of no significance that imported products do not have this cost or the same standards of production, working conditions and environmental protections.
Rudd said something along the lines of he did not want to see an Australia that did not make things anymore. It seems evident that not only does Gillard not share this view but she is intent on this as an outcome.

Back to top

IP Logged

Maqqa

Gold Member

Offline

14% - that low?!

Posts: 16000

Re: 2 easy to answer CT questions
Reply #39 - Jun 22^nd, 2012 at 9:40am

Maqqa wrote on Jun 21^st, 2012 at 9:09pm:

woof woof wrote on Jun 21^st, 2012 at 6:20pm:

1. How much will the carbon tax increase the cost of a hamburger with the lot?
All costs from the farm gate to the plate will increase - petrol, electricity

2. How will the world benefit in real terms from Australias proposed CO2 reductions?
CO2 makes up about
0.0314%
of the atmosphere

Everything that emits CO2 on earth is included in this figure - including humans

There are current NO evidence of how much this 0.0314% represents in terms of tonnage and there are no evidence how much humans contribute to total carbon emission

Lets assume humans contribute 1% of the 0.0314%

Then Australia contributes 1.2% of the 1%

Do the sums:

1.2% of 1% of 0.0314% = F#(K ALL!!!

http://chemistry.about.com/od/chemistryfaqs/f/aircomposition.htm

Where are the carbon Zealots to take on my post!!!!!!

Back to top

Bill 14% is not the alcohol content of that wine. It's your poll number

IP Logged

John Smith

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 78311
Gender: male

Re: 2 easy to answer CT questions
Reply #40 - Jun 22^nd, 2012 at 9:41am

tonegunman1 wrote on Jun 22^nd, 2012 at 9:34am:

Gist wrote on Jun 22^nd, 2012 at 9:03am:

tonegunman1 wrote on Jun 22^nd, 2012 at 8:50am:

John Smith wrote on Jun 21^st, 2012 at 6:56pm:

it's only the top (approx) 300 polluters that pay the tax ... your local baker most likely wont be using them, or if he is he'll look for a cheaper alternative (whatyaknow, the tax works), petrol is exempt .... the guy that butters the bread certainly doesn't fall into the top 300 ....

Unless those 300 are prevented from passing on the cost then the cost is not confined to those 300.
The cheaper alternative will end up being an import that does not have this cost as a component of it's price. So thank you for advocating the relocation of Australian jobs overseas.
Petrol already has excise/tax on it and there is GST on this as well so you have a tax on a tax.

But for some reason petrol excise and GST don't send jobs overseas? Care to explain why?

Petrol excise has similar imposts in the vast majority of countries. So imports have this as a factor in their cost.
The GST applies at the point of purchase by the consumer and this applies equally whether the goods were made here or overseas when bought here. So there is no differentiation with the major exception of online sales and this is impacting significantly and increasingly in offshoring jobs.
The carbon tax impacts only on domestic production and it is apparently of no significance that imported products do not have this cost or the same standards of production, working conditions and environmental protections.
Rudd said something along the lines of he did not want to see an Australia that did not make things anymore. It seems evident that not only does Gillard not share this view but she is intent on this as an outcome.

Not sure how you came to that conclusion .... PETROL IS EXEMPT

Back to top

Our esteemed leader:
I hope that bitch who was running their brothels for them gets raped with a cactus.

IP Logged

Armchair_Politician

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 29057
Gender: male

Re: 2 easy to answer CT questions
Reply #41 - Jun 22^nd, 2012 at 9:44am

Gist wrote on Jun 22^nd, 2012 at 9:13am:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Jun 22^nd, 2012 at 9:04am:

You have never been to a dairy farm, have you? I have about 100 of them within ten minutes of my house. You have no idea how much the electricity costs to run the milking machines, or the lights that must be on when they start at 4-5am every morning, do you? How about doing some research before making a complete dumba$$ of yourself?

So if you know, how about you educate us? If you KNOW how much it costs, tell us. It's a fairly simple question -

In percentage terms, what component of the price of milk does the electricity cost make up?

80%? 30%? 1%? Next to bugger all?

I have no idea, but it is common sense (yes, I know - not a phrase you're familiar with) that if electricity prices rise for dairy farmers, they will seek to recover that cost through selling milk at a higher price. Obviously only they would know by how much it would effect milk prices.

Back to top

IP Logged

John Smith

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 78311
Gender: male

Re: 2 easy to answer CT questions
Reply #42 - Jun 22^nd, 2012 at 9:47am

Armchair_Politician wrote on Jun 22^nd, 2012 at 9:44am:

Gist wrote on Jun 22^nd, 2012 at 9:13am:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Jun 22^nd, 2012 at 9:04am:

You have never been to a dairy farm, have you? I have about 100 of them within ten minutes of my house. You have no idea how much the electricity costs to run the milking machines, or the lights that must be on when they start at 4-5am every morning, do you? How about doing some research before making a complete dumba$$ of yourself?

So if you know, how about you educate us? If you KNOW how much it costs, tell us. It's a fairly simple question -

In percentage terms, what component of the price of milk does the electricity cost make up?

80%? 30%? 1%? Next to bugger all?

I have no idea, but it is common sense (yes, I know - not a phrase you're familiar with) that if electricity prices rise for dairy farmers, they will seek to recover that cost through selling milk at a higher price. Obviously only they would know by how much it would effect milk prices.

that will never happen ... with COles and Woolies dictating prices to dairy farmers, the farmers will just have to wear the extra cost

Back to top

Our esteemed leader:
I hope that bitch who was running their brothels for them gets raped with a cactus.

IP Logged

tonegunman1

Senior Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 427

Re: 2 easy to answer CT questions
Reply #43 - Jun 22^nd, 2012 at 9:58am

John Smith wrote on Jun 22^nd, 2012 at 9:29am:

tonegunman1 wrote on Jun 22^nd, 2012 at 8:50am:

John Smith wrote on Jun 21^st, 2012 at 6:56pm:

it's only the top (approx) 300 polluters that pay the tax ... your local baker most likely wont be using them, or if he is he'll look for a cheaper alternative (whatyaknow, the tax works), petrol is exempt .... the guy that butters the bread certainly doesn't fall into the top 300 ....

Unless those 300 are prevented from passing on the cost then the cost is not confined to those 300.
The cheaper alternative will end up being an import that does not have this cost as a component of it's price. So thank you for advocating the relocation of Australian jobs overseas.Petrol already has excise/tax on it and there is GST on this as well so you have a tax on a tax.

the whole point of the tax is to force companies to change their methods .... if the top 300 start loosing market share to smaller companies because of the carbon tax, they are more likely to invest the millions required in updating or researching their production methods .... if we don't do anything, there is NIL incentive for them to do so ... if the larger company decreses it's workforce because of a downturn in market share, the smaller company will more than likely increase its workforce because of the extra demand for its services ...

Power generators fall into that list of top 300. Which is rather ironic since until recently were all government owned. These government owners are not only are responsible for the considerable rundown of infrastucture but of loading these companies with debt by demanding dividends not connected to any profits but to funding budget wishlists in a manner that would have done any pirate proud. These generators are all in the same boat so there is little alternative other than to pay the increase. A major flaw in your argument is confining the impact to only those 300 companies. Other companies will be unable to avoid these increased costs that accumulate across the production chain. This is not the case with imports.
Another flaw is that you assume that the only alternative for companies is to change their methods. This ignores an already growing readiness to move production offshore where labour and compliance costs are also much less and where there is no penalty to put those products back into our market.
The whole point of this is to address a global problem it makes no difference if those same activities are carried out elsewhere.

Back to top

IP Logged

tonegunman1

Senior Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 427

Re: 2 easy to answer CT questions
Reply #44 - Jun 22^nd, 2012 at 10:03am

John Smith wrote on Jun 22^nd, 2012 at 9:41am:

tonegunman1 wrote on Jun 22^nd, 2012 at 9:34am:

Gist wrote on Jun 22^nd, 2012 at 9:03am:

tonegunman1 wrote on Jun 22^nd, 2012 at 8:50am:

John Smith wrote on Jun 21^st, 2012 at 6:56pm:

it's only the top (approx) 300 polluters that pay the tax ... your local baker most likely wont be using them, or if he is he'll look for a cheaper alternative (whatyaknow, the tax works), petrol is exempt .... the guy that butters the bread certainly doesn't fall into the top 300 ....

Unless those 300 are prevented from passing on the cost then the cost is not confined to those 300.
The cheaper alternative will end up being an import that does not have this cost as a component of it's price. So thank you for advocating the relocation of Australian jobs overseas.
Petrol already has excise/tax on it and there is GST on this as well so you have a tax on a tax.

But for some reason petrol excise and GST don't send jobs overseas? Care to explain why?

Petrol excise has similar imposts in the vast majority of countries. So imports have this as a factor in their cost.
The GST applies at the point of purchase by the consumer and this applies equally whether the goods were made here or overseas when bought here. So there is no differentiation with the major exception of online sales and this is impacting significantly and increasingly in offshoring jobs.
The carbon tax impacts only on domestic production and it is apparently of no significance that imported products do not have this cost or the same standards of production, working conditions and environmental protections.
Rudd said something along the lines of he did not want to see an Australia that did not make things anymore. It seems evident that not only does Gillard not share this view but she is intent on this as an outcome.

Not sure how you came to that conclusion .... PETROL IS EXEMPT

Not from excise or GST it isn't, which was the aspect I was addressing from Gist's question. It is exempt from the carbon tax though which makes the whole outcome based reasoning shambolic.

Back to top

IP Logged