Australian Politics Forum - Carbon Tax: Repeal or not repeal

freediver

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Re: Carbon Tax: Repeal or not repeal
Reply #30 - Jun 11^th, 2012 at 6:30pm

progressiveslol wrote on Jun 11^th, 2012 at 6:22pm:

freediver wrote on Jun 11^th, 2012 at 6:22pm:

Maqqa wrote on Jun 11^th, 2012 at 6:16pm:

freediver wrote on Jun 11^th, 2012 at 6:11pm:

The real reason is that our society wants action on climate change, and all the alternatives are worse for our economy.

Why does society want action on climate change when there is no proof this action will lower global temperature

Because most people understand rational risk management.

They understand BS pseudo science too and opportunistic socialists.

You are right. The public is seeing through the transparent anti science BS from the 'business as usual' financial interests.

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Dnarever

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Re: Carbon Tax: Repeal or not repeal
Reply #31 - Jun 11^th, 2012 at 6:48pm

longweekend58 wrote on Jun 11^th, 2012 at 5:47pm:

John Smith wrote on Jun 11^th, 2012 at 5:33pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Jun 11^th, 2012 at 4:19pm:

Dnarever wrote on Jun 11^th, 2012 at 4:12pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Jun 11^th, 2012 at 4:05pm:

Dnarever wrote on Jun 11^th, 2012 at 12:25pm:

There is one major reason that Abbnott will not repeal the Carbon tax - He can't do it.

really? he cant put up legisltaion in the lower house and then submit it to the senate? not really hard at all. if they reject it twice then it goes to a DD and a joint sitting in which case it WILL be passed. Not simple for sure, but a long way short of impossible.

Abbnott does not care about a carbon price after all a Tax is his idea of the best method - all his spluttering in reality is about political opportunism and has nothing to do with what he thinks is best for Australia.

In the most likely time frame for a DD election Tnoy would be well aware that to pull the trigger is going to cost him at least 15 seats and probably over 20.

He will not take that risk over a policy which in reality he agrees with.

thats a bit presumptuous, is it not? you have zero ability to know that and conventional wisdom would actually suggest the opposite. After Whitlams flogging in 1975, Fraser went to an early election in 1977 with zero particular reason and Whitlam was flogged again but virtually the same margin. Abbott would be taking no chance at all. It would be a hated carbon tax that labor senators refuse to remove even with a massive mandate. And you want to think that Abbott woudl suffer in that environment? There is actually a possibility he could gain seats and especially in the senate. Its a small risk to Abbott but a HUGE risk the Labor not to pass the repeal.

But What Id really like you to answer is why you think Labor isnt obligated to support the repeal in line with a massive mandate just as they demanded the coalition support the workchoiecs repeal? This isnt a question of politics or timeing of DD etc. This is an issue about the conventions and principles of parliament. If they breach that convention then they will destroy themselves for a generation.

Do you not yet realise thatr much of the opposition to a CT is not on the tax itself but rather the breathtaking breach of an election promise? She was reneging on it withing days of the election. THAT is what people are really hating. The deceitful manner in which it was brought about. And that is why labor supporters are among the large number of people demanding it be repealed. And you really dont want to antagonise them by encouraging them to vote Liberal in the senate while maintaining their lower house allegiance to Labor.

presumptious is this idea that you have that if Abbott were to win the next election the ALP and the greens would support him in removing the carbon tax .... why would they want to remove something they fought so hard for? ....

its called PRINCIPLE. it is where you do something you dont personally like becuase it is the RIGHT thing to do. it is where you recognise that as REPRESENTATIVES of the people you are honour bound to reflect their opinions.

I personally expect the labor party to support the repeal either officially or via a crossing of the floor. Not everyone in labor is so stupid as to wish upon themselves a generation in opposition all for the price of refusing to repeal hated legisltiaon that will end up being removed in a joint sitting anyhow.

its called PRINCIPLE.

Yes but to the conservatives PRINCIPLES are something that they can take advantage of other people having while having no understanding of the concept themselves.

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longweekend58

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Re: Carbon Tax: Repeal or not repeal
Reply #32 - Jun 11^th, 2012 at 7:12pm

freediver wrote on Jun 11^th, 2012 at 6:22pm:

Maqqa wrote on Jun 11^th, 2012 at 6:16pm:

freediver wrote on Jun 11^th, 2012 at 6:11pm:

The real reason is that our society wants action on climate change, and all the alternatives are worse for our economy.

Why does society want action on climate change when there is no proof this action will lower global temperature

Because most people understand rational risk management.

excuse me....??????

SINCE WHEN??? People are notriously AWFUL at risk management nevermind mitigation.

FD, that is probably the silliest thing Ive heard you say in ages.

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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

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longweekend58

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Re: Carbon Tax: Repeal or not repeal
Reply #33 - Jun 11^th, 2012 at 7:13pm

freediver wrote on Jun 11^th, 2012 at 6:30pm:

progressiveslol wrote on Jun 11^th, 2012 at 6:22pm:

freediver wrote on Jun 11^th, 2012 at 6:22pm:

Maqqa wrote on Jun 11^th, 2012 at 6:16pm:

freediver wrote on Jun 11^th, 2012 at 6:11pm:

The real reason is that our society wants action on climate change, and all the alternatives are worse for our economy.

Why does society want action on climate change when there is no proof this action will lower global temperature

Because most people understand rational risk management.

They understand BS pseudo science too and opportunistic socialists.

You are right. The public is seeing through the transparent anti science BS from the 'business as usual' financial interests.

wow you are living in a place called DENIAL. the support for ACC has dropped and there is a increasing level of scepticism in the community. You can like it or not but you dont get to pretend it isnt true.

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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

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longweekend58

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Re: Carbon Tax: Repeal or not repeal
Reply #34 - Jun 11^th, 2012 at 7:16pm

Dnarever wrote on Jun 11^th, 2012 at 6:48pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Jun 11^th, 2012 at 5:47pm:

John Smith wrote on Jun 11^th, 2012 at 5:33pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Jun 11^th, 2012 at 4:19pm:

Dnarever wrote on Jun 11^th, 2012 at 4:12pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Jun 11^th, 2012 at 4:05pm:

Dnarever wrote on Jun 11^th, 2012 at 12:25pm:

There is one major reason that Abbnott will not repeal the Carbon tax - He can't do it.

really? he cant put up legisltaion in the lower house and then submit it to the senate? not really hard at all. if they reject it twice then it goes to a DD and a joint sitting in which case it WILL be passed. Not simple for sure, but a long way short of impossible.

Abbnott does not care about a carbon price after all a Tax is his idea of the best method - all his spluttering in reality is about political opportunism and has nothing to do with what he thinks is best for Australia.

In the most likely time frame for a DD election Tnoy would be well aware that to pull the trigger is going to cost him at least 15 seats and probably over 20.

He will not take that risk over a policy which in reality he agrees with.

thats a bit presumptuous, is it not? you have zero ability to know that and conventional wisdom would actually suggest the opposite. After Whitlams flogging in 1975, Fraser went to an early election in 1977 with zero particular reason and Whitlam was flogged again but virtually the same margin. Abbott would be taking no chance at all. It would be a hated carbon tax that labor senators refuse to remove even with a massive mandate. And you want to think that Abbott woudl suffer in that environment? There is actually a possibility he could gain seats and especially in the senate. Its a small risk to Abbott but a HUGE risk the Labor not to pass the repeal.

But What Id really like you to answer is why you think Labor isnt obligated to support the repeal in line with a massive mandate just as they demanded the coalition support the workchoiecs repeal? This isnt a question of politics or timeing of DD etc. This is an issue about the conventions and principles of parliament. If they breach that convention then they will destroy themselves for a generation.

Do you not yet realise thatr much of the opposition to a CT is not on the tax itself but rather the breathtaking breach of an election promise? She was reneging on it withing days of the election. THAT is what people are really hating. The deceitful manner in which it was brought about. And that is why labor supporters are among the large number of people demanding it be repealed. And you really dont want to antagonise them by encouraging them to vote Liberal in the senate while maintaining their lower house allegiance to Labor.

presumptious is this idea that you have that if Abbott were to win the next election the ALP and the greens would support him in removing the carbon tax .... why would they want to remove something they fought so hard for? ....

its called PRINCIPLE. it is where you do something you dont personally like becuase it is the RIGHT thing to do. it is where you recognise that as REPRESENTATIVES of the people you are honour bound to reflect their opinions.

I personally expect the labor party to support the repeal either officially or via a crossing of the floor. Not everyone in labor is so stupid as to wish upon themselves a generation in opposition all for the price of refusing to repeal hated legisltiaon that will end up being removed in a joint sitting anyhow.

its called PRINCIPLE.

Yes but to the conservatives PRINCIPLES are something that they can take advantage of other people having while having no understanding of the concept themselves.

You do realise that a PRINCIPLE is something you adhere to no matter whatthe cost or what your opponents do. If you really had a principle, you wouldnt care what the opposition do. You'd stick to yours.

And yet your only response to the question of repealing the CT is a tit-for-tat UNPRINCIPLED position.

Ive said befoer that very few people on here (both sides) would know 'principle' if it fell on them. Apparently you are included in that lot.

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« Last Edit: Jun 11^th, 2012 at 7:26pm by longweekend58 »

AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

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