Australian Politics Forum - Don't Mention "WORKCHOICES"

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Re: Don't Mention "WORKCHOICES"
Reply #15 - Jun 2^nd, 2012 at 11:37am

angeleyes wrote on Jun 2^nd, 2012 at 11:29am:

skippy. wrote on Jun 2^nd, 2012 at 11:17am:

Quote:

"In fact, my preference would be that he doesn't stake a strong position before an election so he can deal with it after an election."

Yep ,slide in and then hit the workers, sooooooooooooooooooo Liberal, bloody ass holes.

Exactly what labor did dippy.

Juliar. "There will be no carbon tax under a government I lead"

Swan. "No it's not possible that we're bringing in the carbon tax, that is a hysterically inaccurate claim being made by the Coalition."

So Labor, useless lying ass holes.

Then you can not criticise Labor ,while your lot is planning to con the punters with the same approach.

If neo cons are planning to attack worker's conditions and wages during a major world turndown and pressures with cost of living ... they should front up and explain why profit for the clive palmers of the world is more important than the financial security of the majority of Australian voters.

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Dnarever

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Re: Don't Mention "WORKCHOICES"
Reply #16 - Jun 2^nd, 2012 at 11:45am

The conservatives will in reality never take workchoices off the table - maybe a different name or no name but to think differently if you are a worker is naive in the extreme.

Employers don't want unfair dismissal penalty rates for week ends, Public holidays or night work and they are determined to have the ability to drive wages and conditions down.

Australia gave John Howard unfetted control and it took hin about five minutes to go directly to that position with workchoices even with his election commitment of no significant change to IR for the term in place.

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longweekend58

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Re: Don't Mention "WORKCHOICES"
Reply #17 - Jun 2^nd, 2012 at 11:48am

Its rather ironic - if not hypocritical - to accuse the Libs of MAYBE/PERHAPS?POSSIBLY doing exactly what they did after the last election.

"There will be no workchoices under any government I lead"

Frankly, the union movement deserves what they get. The difference is that Abbott is a man of his word while Gillard's word is literally worthless. She lies without compunction to retain or obtain power.

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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

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Re: Don't Mention "WORKCHOICES"
Reply #18 - Jun 2^nd, 2012 at 11:54am

longweekend58 wrote on Jun 2^nd, 2012 at 11:48am:

Its rather ironic - if not hypocritical - to accuse the Libs of MAYBE/PERHAPS?POSSIBLY doing exactly what they did after the last election.

"There will be no workchoices under any government I lead"

Frankly, the union movement deserves what they get. The difference is that Abbott is a man of his word while Gillard's word is literally worthless. She lies without compunction to retain or obtain power.

What about when it isn't written down?

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Dnarever

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Re: Don't Mention "WORKCHOICES"
Reply #19 - Jun 2^nd, 2012 at 11:57am

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Jun 2^nd, 2012 at 11:32am:

Dnarever wrote on Jun 2^nd, 2012 at 11:28am:

Andrei
Quote:

There is far too much red tape in removing a poorly performing worker.

One of the problems I have had with this is that I have found management to be atrocious at identifying poor performance.

They tend to label someone they do not like as a poor performer and will more likely promote an awful performer that they like.

Most staff reductions have no relationship to performance and in fact I find that the biggest driver of poor performance is very often management them self. When overall performance drops it is mostly due to managemant interference or changes.

There's obviously cases of that I have no doubt but on the whole companies and management look to remove an employee based purely on poor performance.

I took over 3 months trying to remove an employee and in the end we had to re-structure and pay him out for retrenchment.
Handing that clown 2 weeks pay for every year service grates with me to this day.

So what happens in Australia is the way around it is to re-structure and re-hire in a different* role.
So you end up effectively rewarding poor performance.
See how it becomes a nonsense?

I would think that the odds are reasonably high that the guy you went to such an effort to get rid of was not really a poor performer.

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Andrei.Hicks

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Re: Don't Mention "WORKCHOICES"
Reply #20 - Jun 2^nd, 2012 at 12:04pm

Dnarever wrote on Jun 2^nd, 2012 at 11:57am:

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Jun 2^nd, 2012 at 11:32am:

Dnarever wrote on Jun 2^nd, 2012 at 11:28am:

Andrei
Quote:

There is far too much red tape in removing a poorly performing worker.

One of the problems I have had with this is that I have found management to be atrocious at identifying poor performance.

They tend to label someone they do not like as a poor performer and will more likely promote an awful performer that they like.

Most staff reductions have no relationship to performance and in fact I find that the biggest driver of poor performance is very often management them self. When overall performance drops it is mostly due to managemant interference or changes.

There's obviously cases of that I have no doubt but on the whole companies and management look to remove an employee based purely on poor performance.

I took over 3 months trying to remove an employee and in the end we had to re-structure and pay him out for retrenchment.
Handing that clown 2 weeks pay for every year service grates with me to this day.

So what happens in Australia is the way around it is to re-structure and re-hire in a different* role.
So you end up effectively rewarding poor performance.
See how it becomes a nonsense?

I would think that the odds are reasonably high that the guy you went to such an effort to get rid of was not really a poor performer.

Incredibly insight there from someone not even in the company, let alone in our area?

And yeah the guy was utter sh*thouse.
Lazy bloke who would do the bare minimum and no more.

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Anyone who lives within their means suffers from a lack of imagination - Oscar Wilde

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Andrei.Hicks

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Re: Don't Mention "WORKCHOICES"
Reply #21 - Jun 2^nd, 2012 at 12:07pm

Dnarever wrote on Jun 2^nd, 2012 at 11:36am:

angeleyes wrote on Jun 2^nd, 2012 at 11:31am:

They tend to label someone they do not like as a poor performer and will more likely promote an awful performer that they like.

Oh, you poor possum.

No the other way - I may have done it myself, we all think that the people we like are doing a good job - its just human nature.

I think people who are doing a good job - are usually doing a good job.

The girl who last week worked back to 10pm to ensure we got our month report out to the execs on time is a good performer.

The guy who would p*ss off at 5 "because he doesn't get paid to stay back" that I had in Melbourne was not a good performer.

I didn't like him because of his work - I like her because of her work.
It's the old horse following cart scenario.

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Anyone who lives within their means suffers from a lack of imagination - Oscar Wilde

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Sir Spot of Borg Gold Member Offline WE ARE BORG Posts: 26589 Australia	Re: Don't Mention "WORKCHOICES" Reply #22 - Jun 2^nd, 2012 at 12:10pm Work choices is best forgotten. In fact it should be illegal to mention it in case another govt get the idea to try to do it. SOBi For the absolute idiots that will point out some free speech BS i was joking
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longweekend58

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Re: Don't Mention "WORKCHOICES"
Reply #23 - Jun 2^nd, 2012 at 12:13pm

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jun 2^nd, 2012 at 12:10pm:

Work choices is best forgotten. In fact it should be illegal to mention it in case another govt get the idea to try to do it.

SOBi

For the absolute idiots that will point out some free speech BS i was joking

Well Abbott has said there will be no workchoices. The only people who trouble with believeing him are the suckers who fell for Gillard 'no carbon tax' promise. bad luck, losers!

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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

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Sir Spot of Borg

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Re: Don't Mention "WORKCHOICES"
Reply #24 - Jun 2^nd, 2012 at 12:20pm

longweekend58 wrote on Jun 2^nd, 2012 at 12:13pm:

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jun 2^nd, 2012 at 12:10pm:

Work choices is best forgotten. In fact it should be illegal to mention it in case another govt get the idea to try to do it.

SOB

Well Abbott has said there will be no workchoices. The only people who trouble with believeing him are the suckers who fell for Gillard 'no carbon tax' promise. bad luck, losers!

Abbott is lying too. they are ALL liars. Its what they do.

SOB

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Dnarever

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Re: Don't Mention "WORKCHOICES"
Reply #25 - Jun 2^nd, 2012 at 12:34pm

longweekend58 wrote on Jun 2^nd, 2012 at 12:13pm:

Well Abbott has said there will be no workchoices. The only people who trouble with believeing him are the suckers who fell for Gillard 'no carbon tax' promise. bad luck, losers!

And since he said that he and other government ministers and the business community have been pushing discussion on unfair dismisal, W/E rates, PH rates shift penalties etc. We won't have workchoices just all the conditions which came under it?

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Andrei.Hicks

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Re: Don't Mention "WORKCHOICES"
Reply #26 - Jun 2^nd, 2012 at 12:36pm

Dnarever wrote on Jun 2^nd, 2012 at 12:34pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Jun 2^nd, 2012 at 12:13pm:

Well Abbott has said there will be no workchoices. The only people who trouble with believeing him are the suckers who fell for Gillard 'no carbon tax' promise. bad luck, losers!

And since he said that he and other government ministers and the business community have been pushing discussion on unfair dismisal, W/E rates, PH rates shift penalties etc. We won't have workchoices just all the conditions which came under it?

All of which I support btw.

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Dnarever

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Re: Don't Mention "WORKCHOICES"
Reply #27 - Jun 2^nd, 2012 at 12:37pm

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Jun 2^nd, 2012 at 12:07pm:

Dnarever wrote on Jun 2^nd, 2012 at 11:36am:

angeleyes wrote on Jun 2^nd, 2012 at 11:31am:

They tend to label someone they do not like as a poor performer and will more likely promote an awful performer that they like.

Oh, you poor possum.

No the other way - I may have done it myself, we all think that the people we like are doing a good job - its just human nature.

I think people who are doing a good job - are usually doing a good job.

The girl who last week worked back to 10pm to ensure we got our month report out to the execs on time is a good performer.

The guy who would p*ss off at 5 "because he doesn't get paid to stay back" that I had in Melbourne was not a good performer.

I didn't like him because of his work - I like her because of her work.
It's the old horse following cart scenario.

Expecting unpaid work is not an indication of performance.

People going home at the end of their paid work day is not an indication of poor performance.

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Dnarever

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Re: Don't Mention "WORKCHOICES"
Reply #28 - Jun 2^nd, 2012 at 12:39pm

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Jun 2^nd, 2012 at 12:36pm:

Dnarever wrote on Jun 2^nd, 2012 at 12:34pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Jun 2^nd, 2012 at 12:13pm:

Well Abbott has said there will be no workchoices. The only people who trouble with believeing him are the suckers who fell for Gillard 'no carbon tax' promise. bad luck, losers!

And since he said that he and other government ministers and the business community have been pushing discussion on unfair dismisal, W/E rates, PH rates shift penalties etc. We won't have workchoices just all the conditions which came under it?

All of which I support btw.

As long as you would be happy to have Abbnott stand up prior to the next election and commit to the re introduction of workchoices I have no problem with your position.

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Sir Spot of Borg

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Re: Don't Mention "WORKCHOICES"
Reply #29 - Jun 2^nd, 2012 at 12:40pm

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Jun 2^nd, 2012 at 12:36pm:

Dnarever wrote on Jun 2^nd, 2012 at 12:34pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Jun 2^nd, 2012 at 12:13pm:

Well Abbott has said there will be no workchoices. The only people who trouble with believeing him are the suckers who fell for Gillard 'no carbon tax' promise. bad luck, losers!

And since he said that he and other government ministers and the business community have been pushing discussion on unfair dismisal, W/E rates, PH rates shift penalties etc. We won't have workchoices just all the conditions which came under it?

All of which I support btw.

Who cares - you arent even in australia. Yank attitudes are not aussie attitudes (mostly). oi oi oi!

SOB

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