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Representations of jews in Australian Pop Culture (Read 11156 times)
falah
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Re: Representations of jews in Australian Pop Culture
Reply #75 - Jun 13th, 2012 at 2:09pm
 

Disbelievers lie all the time. Muslims who fear God Almighty have been commanded not to lie.


Quote:
What is the importance of being truthful, both in personal and business relationships, in Islam? Is lying ever considered and "acceptable" action?

Praise be to God

Being truthful means speaking the truth and also saying things that reflect reality.

Being truthful is one of the necessities of a human society, one of the virtues of human behaviour, and brings great benefits, whilst lying is one of the major elements of corruption in human society, and the cause of the destruction of social structure and ties, one of the most evil features of bad conduct, and causes widespread harm. Hence Islam commanded truthfulness and forbade lying.

God says (interpretation of the meaning):

“O you who believe! Be afraid of God, and be with those who are true (in word and deeds).” [al-Tawbah 9:119]

Ibn Katheer said (2/414): “It means: be truthful and adhere to truthfulness, and you will be among its people and will be saved from calamity, and this will make a way out for you from your problems.”

God says (interpretation of the meaning):

“… if they had been true to God, it would have been better for them.” [Muhammad 47:21]

Abdullah ibn Mas’ood said: “The Messenger of God (peace and blessings of God be upon him) said: ‘You must be truthful, for truthfulness leads to righteousness and righteousness leads to Paradise. A man will keep speaking the truth and striving to speak the truth until he will be recorded with God as speaker of the truth. Beware of telling lies, for lying leads to immorality and immorality leads to Hellfire. A man will keep telling lies and striving to tell lies until he is recorded with God as a liar.” (Reported by Muslim, 4721)

This hadeeth indicates that truthfulness leads to righteousness, an all-embracing concept that includes all kinds of goodness and different kinds of righteous deeds. Immorality is basically an inclination towards deviation from the truth, and the immoral person is one who is inclined to turn away from the path of guidance. Hence immorality and righteousness are diametrically opposed.

Al-Hasan ibn ‘Ali ibn Abi Taalib said: “I memorized from the Messenger of God: ‘Leave that which makes you doubt for that which does not make you doubt, for truthfulness is certainty and tranquillity, whilst lying is doubt and confusion.” (Reported by al-Tirmidhi, 2520; al-Nisaa'i, 8/327; and Ahmad, 1/200)

In the lengthy hadeeth of Abu Sufyaan describing his meeting with Heraclius, Abu Sufyaan said: “[Heraclius] said, ‘What does he [meaning the Prophet]command you to do?’ I said, ‘He says: worship God alone and do not associate anything in worship with Him, and abandon that which your forefathers did. He commands us to pray, to be truthful, to be chaste and to uphold the ties of kinship.’” (Reported by al-Bukhaari, 1/30 and Muslim, 1773).

Hakeem ibn Hizaam reported that the Prophet said: “Two parties to a deal have the option of changing their minds until they part; if they are open and honest, their deal will be blessed, and if they conceal and tell lies, the blessing of their deal will be diminished.” (Reported by al-Bukhaari, 4/275 and Muslim, 1532.)

Truthfulness includes being truthful towards God by worshipping Him sincerely; being truthful towards one’s own soul by making it adhere to the laws of God; and being truthful with people in one's words and by keeping one's promises, and in dealings such as buying, selling and marriage, so there should be no deceiving, cheating, falsifying or withholding of information. Thus a person should be the same on the inside and the outside.

As regards lying, it is highly forbidden, and is of varying degrees of abhorrence and sin. The most obnoxious form of lying is falsely attributing things to God and His Messenger, because this involves fabrication about the religion and is an act of outrage against God. Hence one of the characteristics of the Prophet is that he truthfully conveyed that which God commanded him to convey. So Godsaid (interpretation of the meanings):

“… who does more wrong than one who invents a lie against God, to lead mankind astray without knowledge. Certainly God guides not the people who are oppressive wrongdoers (against themselves)” [al-An’am 6:144]

“And who does more wrong than he who invents a lie against God? Such will be brought before their Lord, and the witnesses will say, ‘These are the ones who lied against their Lord!’ No doubt! The curse of God is on the oppressive wrongdoers.” [Hood 11:18]

Equally bad is lying about the Prophet, as he is reported to have said in the mutawaatir hadeeth: “Whoever lies about me deliberately, let him take his place in Hell.” (Agreed upon by Bukahri and Muslim).

The basic rule with regard to lying is that it is not permitted, but there are certain circumstances in which Islam permits lying to serve a greater purpose or to prevent harm.

One of these situations is when a person mediates between two disputing parties in order to reconcile between them, if reconciliation cannot be achieved in any other way. Um Kalthoom  reported that the Prophet said: “He is not a liar who reconciles between people and conveys something good or says something good.” (Reported by al-Bukhaari, 2495).

Another example is a man’s speaking to his wife, or a woman speaking to her husband, with regard to matters that will strengthen the ties of love between them, even if that is accompanied by exaggeration. Asma’ bint Yazeed said: “The Messenger of God said: ‘Lying is not permitted except in three cases: a man’s speaking to his wife to make her happy; lying at times of war; and lying in order to reconcile between people.’” (Reported by al-Tirmidhi, 1862; he said: it is a good hadeeth. See also Saheeh Muslim, 4717).

One of the most important forms of both being truthful and lying is in the area of promises and covenants. Being truthful in promises and covenants is one of the characteristics by which the believers are known. Both promises and covenants involve saying something about an issue to confirm that you will do it, especially with regard to one's duties towards God. God says, praising some of His slaves (interpretation of the meanings):

“Those who are faithfully true to their trusts/obligations and to their covenants.” [al-Mu’minoon 23:8]

“… and who fulfil their covenant when they make it…” [al-Baqarah 2:177]

“Among the believers are men who have been true to their covenant with God [i.e., they have gone out for jihad (holy fighting), and showed not their backs to the disbelievers], of them some have fulfilled their obligations (i.e., have been martyred), and some of them are still waiting, but they have never changed [i.e., they never proved treacherous to their covenant which they concluded with God] in the least.” [al-Ahzaab 33:23]

We ask God to make us sincere and truthful in word and deed. And God knows best.


[from Saudi Islamic scholar Sheikh Muhammed Salih al-Munajjid]


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« Last Edit: Jun 13th, 2012 at 2:14pm by falah »  

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Baronvonrort
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Re: Representations of jews in Australian Pop Culture
Reply #76 - Jun 13th, 2012 at 2:19pm
 
falah wrote on Jun 13th, 2012 at 2:09pm:
Baronvonrort wrote on Jun 13th, 2012 at 12:53pm:
The sunni are only allowed to lie in 3 circumstances-
To your wife
In times of war - The west is considered Dar al harb or land of war so allah allows you to tell lies.
To reconcile 2 or more parties.

You are a hypocrite falah




Disbelievers lie all the time. Muslims who fear God Almighty have been commanded not to lie.


Quote:
What is the importance of being truthful, both in personal and business relationships, in Islam? Is lying ever considered and "acceptable" action?

Praise be to God

Being truthful means speaking the truth and also saying things that reflect reality.

Being truthful is one of the necessities of a human society, one of the virtues of human behaviour, and brings great benefits, whilst lying is one of the major elements of corruption in human society, and the cause of the destruction of social structure and ties, one of the most evil features of bad conduct, and causes widespread harm. Hence Islam commanded truthfulness and forbade lying.

God says (interpretation of the meaning):

“O you who believe! Be afraid of God, and be with those who are true (in word and deeds).” [al-Tawbah 9:119]

Ibn Katheer said (2/414): “It means: be truthful and adhere to truthfulness, and you will be among its people and will be saved from calamity, and this will make a way out for you from your problems.”

God says (interpretation of the meaning):

“… if they had been true to God, it would have been better for them.” [Muhammad 47:21]

Abdullah ibn Mas’ood said: “The Messenger of God (peace and blessings of God be upon him) said: ‘You must be truthful, for truthfulness leads to righteousness and righteousness leads to Paradise. A man will keep speaking the truth and striving to speak the truth until he will be recorded with God as speaker of the truth. Beware of telling lies, for lying leads to immorality and immorality leads to Hellfire. A man will keep telling lies and striving to tell lies until he is recorded with God as a liar.” (Reported by Muslim, 4721)

This hadeeth indicates that truthfulness leads to righteousness, an all-embracing concept that includes all kinds of goodness and different kinds of righteous deeds. Immorality is basically an inclination towards deviation from the truth, and the immoral person is one who is inclined to turn away from the path of guidance. Hence immorality and righteousness are diametrically opposed.

Al-Hasan ibn ‘Ali ibn Abi Taalib said: “I memorized from the Messenger of God: ‘Leave that which makes you doubt for that which does not make you doubt, for truthfulness is certainty and tranquillity, whilst lying is doubt and confusion[/highlight].” (Reported by al-Tirmidhi, 2520; al-Nisaa'i, 8/327; and Ahmad, 1/200)

In the lengthy hadeeth of Abu Sufyaan describing his meeting with Heraclius, Abu Sufyaan said: “[Heraclius] said, ‘What does he [meaning the Prophet]command you to do?’ I said, ‘He says: worship God alone and do not associate anything in worship with Him, and abandon that which your forefathers did. He commands us to pray, to be truthful[/highlight], to be chaste and to uphold the ties of kinship.’” (Reported by al-Bukhaari, 1/30 and Muslim, 1773).

Hakeem ibn Hizaam reported that the Prophet said: “Two parties to a deal have the option of changing their minds until they part; if they are open and honest, their deal will be blessed, and if they conceal and tell lies, the blessing of their deal will be diminished.” (Reported by al-Bukhaari, 4/275 and Muslim, 1532.)

Truthfulness includes being truthful towards God by worshipping Him sincerely; being truthful towards one’s own soul by making it adhere to the laws of God; and being truthful with people in one's words and by keeping one's promises, and in dealings such as buying, selling and marriage, so there should be no deceiving, cheating, falsifying or withholding of information. Thus a person should be the same on the inside and the outside.

As regards lying, it is highly forbidden, and is of varying degrees of abhorrence and sin. The most obnoxious form of lying is falsely attributing things to God and His Messenger, because this involves fabrication about the religion and is an act of outrage against God. Hence one of the characteristics of the Prophet is that he truthfully conveyed that which God commanded him to convey. So Godsaid (interpretation of the meanings):

“… who does more wrong than one who invents a lie against God, to lead mankind astray without knowledge. Certainly God guides not the people who are oppressive wrongdoers (against themselves)” [al-An’am 6:144]

“And who does more wrong than he who invents a lie against God? Such will be brought before their Lord, and the witnesses will say, ‘These are the ones who lied against their Lord!’ No doubt! The curse of God is on the oppressive wrongdoers.” [Hood 11:18]

Equally bad is lying about the Prophet, as he is reported to have said in the mutawaatir hadeeth: “Whoever lies about me deliberately, let him take his place in Hell.” (Agreed upon by Bukahri and Muslim).

The basic rule with regard to lying is that it is not permitted, but there are certain circumstances in which Islam permits lying to serve a greater purpose or to prevent harm.

One of these situations is when a person mediates between two disputing parties in order to reconcile between them, if reconciliation cannot be achieved in any other way. Um Kalthoom  reported that the Prophet said: “He is not a liar who reconciles between people and conveys something good or says something good.” (Reported by al-Bukhaari, 2495).

Another example is a man’s speaking to his wife, or a woman speaking to her husband, with regard to matters that will strengthen the ties of love between them, even if that is accompanied by exaggeration. Asma’ bint Yazeed said: “The Messenger of God said: ‘Lying is not permitted except in three cases: a man’s speaking to his wife to make her happy; lying at times of war; and lying in order to reconcile between people.’” (Reported by al-Tirmidhi, 1862; he said: it is a good hadeeth. See also Saheeh Muslim, 4717)


One of the most important forms of both being truthful and lying is in the area of promises and covenants. Being truthful in promises and covenants is one of the characteristics by which the believers are known. Both promises and covenants involve saying something about an issue to confirm that you will do it, especially with regard to one's duties towards God. God says, praising some of His slaves (interpretation of the meanings):

“Those who are faithfully true to their trusts/obligations and to their covenants.” [al-Mu’minoon 23:8]

“… and who fulfil their covenant when they make it…” [al-Baqarah 2:177]

“Among the believers are men who have been true to their covenant with God [i.e., they have gone out for jihad (holy fighting), and showed not their backs to the disbelievers], of them some have fulfilled their obligations (i.e., have been martyred), and some of them are still waiting, but they have never changed [i.e., they never proved treacherous to their covenant which they concluded with God] in the least.” [al-Ahzaab 33:23]

We ask God to make us sincere and truthful in word and deed. And God knows best.


[from Saudi Islamic scholar Sheikh Muhammed Salih al-Munajjid]




So what is this greater purpose that allows muslims to tell lies falah, is it to spread Islam?
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falah
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Re: Representations of jews in Australian Pop Culture
Reply #77 - Jun 13th, 2012 at 2:29pm
 
Baronvonrort wrote on Jun 13th, 2012 at 12:53pm:
The sunni are only allowed to lie in 3 circumstances-
To your wife
In times of war...


Unlike the disbelievers, Muslims are commanded by God Almighty not to lie.

There is a concession in war. This mean using deceit to win because war is deception. All parties in war use deception to win wars, they use surprise attacks, and intelligence gathering and protection of secrets is considered necessary to win wars.


Baronvonrort wrote on Jun 13th, 2012 at 12:53pm:
The west is considered Dar al harb or land of war so allah allows you to tell lies.


Who is it considered darulharb for the citizen of the Islamic state or the citizn of the non-Islamic state?

I am not a citizen of an Islamic state at war with the West, so such a designation would have no relevance to me.

The sort of lying you pretend is allowed in Islam is not allowed. Deception is only allowed in regard to matters directly related to fighting. Even then there are restrictions and Muslims are not allowed to break promises and treaties.


Quote:
Deception in war

Praise be to God.

God has forbidden treachery and has condemned those who do it. God says (interpretation of the meaning):

Verily, The worst of moving (living) creatures before God are those who disbelieve , - so they shall not believe. They are those with whom you made a covenant, but they break their covenant every time and they do not fear God.

[The Quran, al-Anfaal  v. 55-6]

And the Prophet (peace and blessings of God be upon him) said: “Every betrayer will have a banner on the Day of Resurrection, by which he will be known.” (Narrated by al-Bukhaari, 6966; Muslim, 1736)

Al-Bukhaari narrated that Ibn ‘Umar said: ‘The Messenger of God said: ‘There are four characteristics, whoever has them all is a pure hypocrite: when he speaks, he lies; when he makes a promise he breaks it; when he is entrusted with something he betrays that trust; and when he argues, he speaks in an obscene manner. Whoever has one of these traits has a trait of hypocrisy until he gives it up.” (Narrated by al-Bukhaari, 3878; Muslim, 58)

And it was narrated that Maalik said: “I heard that Abdullah ibn Abbaas said: ‘There is no people who betrays their covenant but God gives their enemies power over them.” [al-Muwatta’, Baab ma jaa’a fi’l-wafa’ bi’l-‘ahd]

Yet despite this condemnation of betrayal, Islam allows deception in war in order to attain victory. Al-Nawawi said: “The scholars are agreed that it is permissible to deceive the disbelievers in war in any way possible, except if that would mean breaking the terms of a treaty or trust, in which case it is not permitted.

The Prophet said: “War is deceit.” (Narrated by al-Bukhaari, 3029; Muslim, 58).  One of the most dangerous elements of deceit is taking the enemy by surprise and catching them unawares before they can get ready to fight. When the Messenger wanted to head for Makkah in order to conquer it, he ordered the Muslims to get ready without telling anyone of his intention until after they had set out for Makkah, and after taking all precautions to prevent news of that reaching the mushrikeen.

And the Prophet used to send out many raiding parties, and he would tell them to travel by night and conceal themselves by day so that they could catch the enemy unawares.

Although it is permissible to use deception in war, we say that Islam has attained a high standard of ethics with regard to the use of these tricks in war. Among the most prominent examples of that are the following:

Umar ibn al-Khattaab wrote to the commander of an army that he had sent out: “I have heard that some men among you look for disbelievers, then when they run to hide in difficult mountainous terrain they say, ‘Do not be afraid,’ then when they catch up with them they kill them. By the one in whose hand is my soul, if I hear that anyone has done that I will chop off his head.”

It was narrated that Abu Muslimah said: “ ‘Umar ibn al-Khattaab said: ‘By the One in Whose hand is my soul, if any one of you were to point to the sky [i.e., a gesture to imply that he will not harm him] to make a polytheist come down to him and then kill him, I would execute him for that.’”

Islam has forbidden treachery, and treachery is not one of the kinds of tricks and deception that are permitted in war.

Islamic law makes a distinction between the kinds of deceit that are permitted and that which involves treachery and breaks treaties.

See al-‘Allaaqaat al-Khaarijiyyah fi Dawlat al-Khilaafah, 197.


from Saudi scholar of Islam, Sheikh Muhammed Salih al-Munajjid

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« Last Edit: Jun 13th, 2012 at 2:44pm by falah »  

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falah
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Re: Representations of jews in Australian Pop Culture
Reply #78 - Jun 13th, 2012 at 2:36pm
 
Now let's compare Islam's prohibitions on lying to Judaism.

The Talmud says:

Baba Kamma 113a. Jews may use lies ("subterfuges") to circumvent a Gentile.


Yebamoth 98a. All gentile children are animals.


Abodah Zarah 22a-22b . Gentiles prefer sex with cows.





Gloats over Christ Dying Young

A passage from Sanhedrin 106 gloats over the early age at which Jesus died: "Hast thou heard how old Balaam (Jesus) was?--He replied: It is not actually stated but since it is written, Bloody and deceitful men shall not live out half their days it follows that he was thirty-three or thirty-four years old."


There are many other Talmudic lies about Jesus and Mary which are too heinous to reproduce




Sanhedrin 57a . A Jew need not pay a gentile ("Cuthean") the wages owed him for work.

Baba Mezia 24a . If a Jew finds an object lost by a gentile ("heathen") it does not have to be returned. (Affirmed also in Baba Kamma 113b). Sanhedrin 76a. God will not spare a Jew who "marries his daughter to an old man or takes a wife for his infant son or returns a lost article to a Cuthean..."

Sanhedrin 57a . When a Jew murders a gentile ("Cuthean"), there will be no death penalty. What a Jew steals from a gentile he may keep.

Baba Kamma 37b. The gentiles are outside the protection of the law and God has "exposed their money to Israel."


Gittin 69a . To heal his flesh a Jew should take dust that lies within the shadow of an outdoor toilet, mix with honey and eat it.

Yebamoth 63a. States that Adam had sexual intercourse with all the animals in the Garden of Eden.

Sanhedrin 55b. A Jew may marry a three year old girl (specifically, three years "and a day" old).

Sanhedrin 54b. A Jew may have sex with a child as long as the child is less than nine years old.

Kethuboth 11b. "When a grown-up man has intercourse with a little girl it is nothing."

Shabbath 116a. Jews must destroy the books of the Christians, i.e. the New Testament.




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Re: Representations of jews in Australian Pop Culture
Reply #79 - Jun 13th, 2012 at 3:15pm
 
Out of curiosity, what does any of that bullshit have to do with the thread's topic of representations of Jews in Australian culture?  We get it, some of you hate Jews and some of  you hate Islam. News flash, no one cares, you bigoted dickheads.

Now can we get back to laughing at ethnic stereotypes, please?  Here, I'll get us started...

Q. What's the difference between a Jew and a canoe?

A. Canoes tip.
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Re: Representations of jews in Australian Pop Culture
Reply #80 - Jun 13th, 2012 at 7:17pm
 
Abu once explained to me that lying is only permitted in times of war, and that the west has been at war with the Muslim world for over a century. I never could get him to explain what this meant exactly. He did however explain that Shites lie all the time. Shitism allows Shites to lie to Sunnis whenever Sunnis are trying to kill them for being Shites.

I find this one particularly ironic coming from Falah. I am surprised he did not "ellipse" this inconvenient bit out:

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Being truthful means speaking the truth and also saying things that reflect reality.
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Chard
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Re: Representations of jews in Australian Pop Culture
Reply #81 - Jun 14th, 2012 at 3:00am
 
There's a much simpler way to put it, Freediver.

Just because your holybook says you're not supposed to do something doesn't mean that all adherents to that religion follow all the rules all the time.  The obvious response to that always boils down to "then they aren't a true believer of (insert faith in specific Magical Sky Pixie here)!" That would be a classic Not-A-True-Scotsman fallacy, and fallacy is a fancy way of saying bullshit, ergo religion is bullshit. QED.
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Re: Representations of jews in Australian Pop Culture
Reply #82 - Jun 14th, 2012 at 10:36am
 
Chard wrote on Jun 14th, 2012 at 3:00am:
and fallacy is a fancy way of saying bullshit, ergo religion is bullshit. QED.



That's a good 'no true Scotsman' argument.

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