Australian Politics Forum - student goes to jail for causing gay death

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Re: student goes to jail for causing gay death
Reply #15 - May 23^rd, 2012 at 10:51am

FriYAY wrote on May 23^rd, 2012 at 10:36am:

... wrote on May 23^rd, 2012 at 10:28am:

FriYAY wrote on May 23^rd, 2012 at 10:26am:

Why do so many young gays kill them selves?

Could it be that what used to be a bit of innocent experimentation is now “YOU”RE BORN GAY”

I often wonder how many young men, after curious experimentation, don’t feel gay but are told they must be gay because you are born that way.

What hope would you have, to be told you must be gay, but don’t respond/equate to those feelings at all.

Undecided

There is a "spectrum of gayness" but I think anybody who feels the need to "experiment" is firmly on the gay side.

Really?

You get a couple of young boys, good mates, spend a lot of time together, stay over night, hormones racing, willies going stiff for no reason.

I wonder how many would/wouldn’t admit to innocent experimentation growing up? – now you take that and add – YOU’RE BORN GAY.

No, I see many getting this born gay message and trying to cope with the confusion of not being or felling gay at all. Just being young and curious.

How do you escape?

Can't say I ever felt the need to experiment, but I guess I can see your point. If the zeitgeist is pushing the "born gay - all or nothing" approach, I guess it'd be confusing for someone who's at a low level on the SOG. That is why it is so important that this concept be widely introduced, and taught in schools. I am available for consultancy and speaking arrangements -PM me for booking information.

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muso

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Re: student goes to jail for causing gay death
Reply #16 - May 23^rd, 2012 at 10:54am

... wrote on May 23^rd, 2012 at 10:47am:

With us or agains us? No - that's why I introduced the "spectrum of gayness" (patent pending).

Say for example, you unwittingly stuck it to a ladyboy. That's technically gay, but on the lower end of the spectrum of gayness (SOG). But say you knew it was a ladyboy - that's a step up. At the extreme gay end you have getting knowingly stuck by men.

OK. Let's say that somebody played around in prison but were totally straight outside?

- or at a mining camp, but all are now happily married men? (not hypothetical)

From experience, I agree with you that there is a spectrum or continuum. In my various roles I've had reports of it happening.

I kinda agree with your point about the "born gay" label. I've always thought it was a bit of nurture as well as nature.

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Re: student goes to jail for causing gay death
Reply #17 - May 23^rd, 2012 at 11:16am

muso wrote on May 23^rd, 2012 at 10:54am:

... wrote on May 23^rd, 2012 at 10:47am:

With us or agains us? No - that's why I introduced the "spectrum of gayness" (patent pending).

Say for example, you unwittingly stuck it to a ladyboy. That's technically gay, but on the lower end of the spectrum of gayness (SOG). But say you knew it was a ladyboy - that's a step up. At the extreme gay end you have getting knowingly stuck by men.

OK. Let's say that somebody played around in prison but were totally straight outside?

- or at a mining camp, but all are now happily married men? (not hypothetical)

From experience, I agree with you that there is a spectrum or continuum. In my various roles I've had reports of it happening.

I kinda agree with your point about the "born gay" label. I've always thought it was a bit of nurture as well as nature.

I don't think theres any one cause. We know that exposure to some chemicals can "feminise" males or masculinise females.

Quote:

Curtin University research has established that female marine snails living off the Perth coast are growing male sex organs after exposure to the chemical TBT

http://www.sciencealert.com.au/news/20101309-21316.html

and we know that child abuse victims identify as gay at a much higher rate than non-abused peers. The correlation is too strong too ignore as a possible cause.

Quote:

Gay, lesbian and bisexual youth may be at greater risk because they tend to be socially isolated and are easier targets.14,15 In one study, male sexual abuse survivors self-described as homosexual almost seven times, and as bisexual almost six times, more often than nonabused peers.15

http://www.advocatesforyouth.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=410&I...

The gayness of your examples will be contingent upon a few factors - did they give it or take it? What were they thinking of, or looking at? did they close their eyes and think of a supermodel? did their partner look like a chick or a big hairy stinky male? The SOG is very complex.

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freediver Gold Member Online www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 53252 At my desk.	Re: student goes to jail for causing gay death Reply #18 - May 23^rd, 2012 at 9:08pm Quote: and we know that child abuse victims identify as gay at a much higher rate than non-abused peers. The correlation is too strong too ignore as a possible cause Correlation=causation is a logical fallacy, no matter how convincing the correlation.
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Re: student goes to jail for causing gay death
Reply #19 - May 23^rd, 2012 at 9:51pm

freediver wrote on May 23^rd, 2012 at 9:08pm:

Quote:

and we know that child abuse victims identify as gay at a much higher rate than non-abused peers. The correlation is too strong too ignore as a possible cause

Correlation=causation is a logical fallacy, no matter how convincing the correlation.

How do you rule it out as a cause?

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Sir Spot of Borg

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Re: student goes to jail for causing gay death
Reply #20 - May 24^th, 2012 at 9:31am

What caused this?

http://now.msn.com/now/0522-gay-penguin-egg.aspx

Quote:

After six years of lovingly building a nest together each spring, a pair of male Gentoo penguins named Inca and Rayas finally have an egg to keep in it. According to their keepers at Madrid's Faunia Park, the two are inseparable and have taken to parenting like, well, penguins to water. Inca has adopted the female role of incubating the egg, while partner Rayas watches over his buddy and the little one. Their keepers hope that the donated egg -- and the bub that hatches out of it -- will boost the pair's spirits. In past years, they apparently became rather blue during spring when surrounded by all their friends' newborns.

SOB

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... Gold Member Offline Posts: 23673 WA Gender:	Re: student goes to jail for causing gay death Reply #21 - May 24^th, 2012 at 10:33am I telt ya - the SOG is very complex. How can anyone identify the cause of that particular case with nothing more than a fluffy article to go by? I told you I'm available for consultancy - if you really want to know, my rates are very reasonable.
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Grey

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Re: student goes to jail for causing gay death
Reply #22 - May 24^th, 2012 at 11:29am

muso wrote on May 23^rd, 2012 at 10:48am:

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on May 23^rd, 2012 at 10:33am:

... wrote on May 23^rd, 2012 at 10:28am:

FriYAY wrote on May 23^rd, 2012 at 10:26am:

Why do so many young gays kill them selves?

Could it be that what used to be a bit of innocent experimentation is now “YOU”RE BORN GAY”

I often wonder how many young men, after curious experimentation, don’t feel gay but are told they must be gay because you are born that way.

What hope would you have, to be told you must be gay, but don’t respond/equate to those feelings at all.

Undecided

There is a "spectrum of gayness" but I think anybody who feels the need to "experiment" is firmly on the gay side.

With us or against us huh? Bisexuals do exist you know.

SOB

I think that's what he meant by spectrum. I think that homophobes are somewhere in the middle of that spectrum.

In that case, should it have made any difference if either or both the guys were gay or otherwise? The key issue was invasion of privacy.

Right! I see no evidence of gayness having anything to do with the spying or that the suicide did come to that. Maybe the co-kisser was experimenting and decided the gay thing wasn't right for him and the suicide was about a broken heart. Clementi called Ravi's actions, 'wildly inappropriate' which is right of course. But the words don't conjure up images of distraught. They sound to me a calm and measured response.

As usual we have no way fo knowing what went on or why things happened. If Ravi was offered a plea bargain with no jail time, why would the proseution appeal a thirty day sentence with a ten grande fine? Why didn't Tavi accept the offer? All these and other questions will remain a mystery to us

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