Australian Politics Forum - Conservatives want Third World Australia

corporate_whitey Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 8896 Archivist	Re: Conservatives want Third World Australia Reply #30 - May 18^th, 2012 at 9:10am Working class suburbs need to start placing restrictions on the Vice Trading in their communities and fight back hard.
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Sir Spot of Borg

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Re: Conservatives want Third World Australia
Reply #31 - May 18^th, 2012 at 9:16am

BlOoDy RiPpEr wrote on May 18^th, 2012 at 9:08am:

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on May 18^th, 2012 at 8:55am:

Thing is BOTH parties want to make us a 3rd world nation.

SOB

Its a shame Nationalism is always left out of the equation.
Less immigration would drive up the wages to entice workers into positions.
And unions will never make that happen as it makes them redundant.

Not sure what that means since unions are there to make sure ppl get a fair go in the workplace.

SOB

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BlOoDy RiPpEr

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Re: Conservatives want Third World Australia
Reply #32 - May 18^th, 2012 at 9:35am

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on May 18^th, 2012 at 9:16am:

BlOoDy RiPpEr wrote on May 18^th, 2012 at 9:08am:

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on May 18^th, 2012 at 8:55am:

Thing is BOTH parties want to make us a 3rd world nation.

SOB

Its a shame Nationalism is always left out of the equation.
Less immigration would drive up the wages to entice workers into positions.
And unions will never make that happen as it makes them redundant.

Not sure what that means since unions are there to make sure ppl get a fair go in the workplace.

SOB

well if wages increased due to competition for workers people would have no need to join a union to fight for higher wages. And unions don't like that because there is no money to be made by them, this is why unions always fund advertisements for political parties who support high immigration as it drives down the cost of workers so more workers will join the union and the more money unions stand to make. and on the flip side of the coin, big business also supports high immigration as they don't have to compete for workers allowing them to pay lower wages and creates higher profits.

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Sir Spot of Borg

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Re: Conservatives want Third World Australia
Reply #33 - May 18^th, 2012 at 10:00am

BlOoDy RiPpEr wrote on May 18^th, 2012 at 9:35am:

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on May 18^th, 2012 at 9:16am:

BlOoDy RiPpEr wrote on May 18^th, 2012 at 9:08am:

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on May 18^th, 2012 at 8:55am:

Thing is BOTH parties want to make us a 3rd world nation.

SOB

Its a shame Nationalism is always left out of the equation.
Less immigration would drive up the wages to entice workers into positions.
And unions will never make that happen as it makes them redundant.

Not sure what that means since unions are there to make sure ppl get a fair go in the workplace.

SOB

well if wages increased due to competition for workers people would have no need to join a union to fight for higher wages. And unions don't like that because there is no money to be made by them, this is why unions always fund advertisements for political parties who support high immigration as it drives down the cost of workers so more workers will join the union and the more money unions stand to make. and on the flip side of the coin, big business also supports high immigration as they don't have to compete for workers allowing them to pay lower wages and creates higher profits.

Unions arent just about higher wages. They are about working conditions and equal opportunity.

SOB

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BlOoDy RiPpEr

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Re: Conservatives want Third World Australia
Reply #34 - May 18^th, 2012 at 10:14am

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on May 18^th, 2012 at 10:00am:

BlOoDy RiPpEr wrote on May 18^th, 2012 at 9:35am:

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on May 18^th, 2012 at 9:16am:

BlOoDy RiPpEr wrote on May 18^th, 2012 at 9:08am:

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on May 18^th, 2012 at 8:55am:

Thing is BOTH parties want to make us a 3rd world nation.

SOB

Its a shame Nationalism is always left out of the equation.
Less immigration would drive up the wages to entice workers into positions.
And unions will never make that happen as it makes them redundant.

Not sure what that means since unions are there to make sure ppl get a fair go in the workplace.

SOB

well if wages increased due to competition for workers people would have no need to join a union to fight for higher wages. And unions don't like that because there is no money to be made by them, this is why unions always fund advertisements for political parties who support high immigration as it drives down the cost of workers so more workers will join the union and the more money unions stand to make. and on the flip side of the coin, big business also supports high immigration as they don't have to compete for workers allowing them to pay lower wages and creates higher profits.

Unions arent just about higher wages. They are about working conditions and equal opportunity.

SOB

Unions are about profits, nothing more. They put on a good show for workers creating the illusion they are there for workers. But they fund the very system that works against the worker. If there is a safety issue in the work place, one only has to put a complaint to work-cover. A worker don't need a union if concerned about safety issues. The only relevance unions have now days are wages. But with unions continued funding of political parties that support high immigration, they are working against the Australian worker striving for less competition for workers and lower pay.

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Sir Spot of Borg

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Re: Conservatives want Third World Australia
Reply #35 - May 18^th, 2012 at 10:38am

BlOoDy RiPpEr wrote on May 18^th, 2012 at 10:14am:

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on May 18^th, 2012 at 10:00am:

BlOoDy RiPpEr wrote on May 18^th, 2012 at 9:35am:

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on May 18^th, 2012 at 9:16am:

BlOoDy RiPpEr wrote on May 18^th, 2012 at 9:08am:

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on May 18^th, 2012 at 8:55am:

Thing is BOTH parties want to make us a 3rd world nation.

SOB

Its a shame Nationalism is always left out of the equation.
Less immigration would drive up the wages to entice workers into positions.
And unions will never make that happen as it makes them redundant.

Not sure what that means since unions are there to make sure ppl get a fair go in the workplace.

SOB

well if wages increased due to competition for workers people would have no need to join a union to fight for higher wages. And unions don't like that because there is no money to be made by them, this is why unions always fund advertisements for political parties who support high immigration as it drives down the cost of workers so more workers will join the union and the more money unions stand to make. and on the flip side of the coin, big business also supports high immigration as they don't have to compete for workers allowing them to pay lower wages and creates higher profits.

Unions arent just about higher wages. They are about working conditions and equal opportunity.

SOB

Unions are about profits, nothing more. They put on a good show for workers creating the illusion they are there for workers. But they fund the very system that works against the worker. If there is a safety issue in the work place, one only has to put a complaint to work-cover. A worker don't need a union if concerned about safety issues. The only relevance unions have now days are wages. But with unions continued funding of political parties that support high immigration, they are working against the Australian worker striving for less competition for workers and lower pay.

Are you saying we dont need unions? That we should go back to the old days when corporations were trusted to handle this stuff themselves and child labour was rampant?

SOB

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falah

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Re: Conservatives want Third World Australia
Reply #36 - May 18^th, 2012 at 10:58am

BlOoDy RiPpEr wrote on May 18^th, 2012 at 9:08am:

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on May 18^th, 2012 at 8:55am:

Thing is BOTH parties want to make us a 3rd world nation.

SOB

Its a shame Nationalism is always left out of the equation.
Less immigration would drive up the wages to entice workers into positions.
And unions will never make that happen as it makes them redundant.

That is garbage. It is the rich corporates who encourage the government to increase immigration. Immigration suits the rich corporates in two ways; lowering wages, and providing an engine for economic growth by stimulating demand in areas such as housing.

If we look historically, it has been the working classes that have been against immigration precisely because of the impact of cheap labour on Australian wages.

It was a Labor government that introduced the White Australia Policy (Immigration Restriction Act) in 1901 in order to keep cheap (mainly Chinese) labor out of Australia.

Anyway, to cut off immigration now would mean a huge slump in house prices and huge rises in inflation with flow-on effects = a huge hit to the Australian economy.

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BlOoDy RiPpEr

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Re: Conservatives want Third World Australia
Reply #37 - May 18^th, 2012 at 11:54am

falah wrote on May 18^th, 2012 at 10:58am:

BlOoDy RiPpEr wrote on May 18^th, 2012 at 9:08am:

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on May 18^th, 2012 at 8:55am:

Thing is BOTH parties want to make us a 3rd world nation.

SOB

Its a shame Nationalism is always left out of the equation.
Less immigration would drive up the wages to entice workers into positions.
And unions will never make that happen as it makes them redundant.

That is garbage. It is the rich corporates who encourage the government to increase immigration. Immigration suits the rich corporates in two ways; lowering wages, and providing an engine for economic growth by stimulating demand in areas such as housing.

If we look historically, it has been the working classes that have been against immigration precisely because of the impact of cheap labour on Australian wages.

It was a Labor government that introduced the White Australia Policy (Immigration Restriction Act) in 1901 in order to keep cheap (mainly Chinese) labor out of Australia.

Anyway, to cut off immigration now would mean a huge slump in house prices and huge rises in inflation with flow-on effects = a huge hit to the Australian economy.

Maybe you should learn a bit more about our history, it was the Protectionist party not the Labor party that introduce the policies known as the 'White Australia Policy' and it was people from the Protectionist Party that campaigned for Federation of the colonies so it could introduce such laws.

I dont disagree with your comment Quote:

It is the rich corporates who encourage the government to increase immigration. Immigration suits the rich corporates in two ways; lowering wages, and providing an engine for economic growth by stimulating demand in areas such as housing.

Rich corporates donate money to both Liberal and Labor Parties Its on record.
But you can not deny Unions also benifit from high immigration as lower wages gives the unions a higher membership. This is why unions support high immigration.

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falah

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Re: Conservatives want Third World Australia
Reply #38 - May 18^th, 2012 at 9:46pm

BlOoDy RiPpEr wrote on May 18^th, 2012 at 11:54am:

Maybe you should learn a bit more about our history, it was the Protectionist party not the Labor party that introduce the policies known as the 'White Australia Policy' and it was people from the Protectionist Party that campaigned for Federation of the colonies so it could introduce such laws.

Quote:

The Barton Government which won the first elections following Federation in 1901 was formed by the Protectionist Party with the support of the Australian Labour Party. The support of the Labour Party was contingent upon restricting non-white immigration, reflecting the attitudes of the Australian Worker's Union and other labour organisations at the time, upon whose support the Labour Party was founded.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_Australia_policy

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Soren Gold Member Offline Posts: 25654 Gender:	Re: Conservatives want Third World Australia Reply #39 - May 18^th, 2012 at 10:08pm I am for the 19th century American model of immigration: let them all come but no welfare. We want people who can make their way and I don't care what colour they are.
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BlOoDy RiPpEr

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Re: Conservatives want Third World Australia
Reply #40 - May 18^th, 2012 at 10:26pm

falah wrote on May 18^th, 2012 at 9:46pm:

BlOoDy RiPpEr wrote on May 18^th, 2012 at 11:54am:

Maybe you should learn a bit more about our history, it was the Protectionist party not the Labor party that introduce the policies known as the 'White Australia Policy' and it was people from the Protectionist Party that campaigned for Federation of the colonies so it could introduce such laws.

Quote:

The Barton Government which won the first elections following Federation in 1901 was formed by the Protectionist Party with the support of the Australian Labour Party. The support of the Labour Party was contingent upon restricting non-white immigration, reflecting the attitudes of the Australian Worker's Union and other labour organisations at the time, upon whose support the Labour Party was founded.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_Australia_policy

You can put all the spin on it you like, It was the protectionist party not labor that won the election that introduced the policies that made 'The White Australia Policy'.
If not for Edmund Barton and Alfred Deakin it would never of happened. Sure Labor use to support Australian workers but since the end of World War 2 the Labor Movement was infiltrated by Marxism. And has done everything it can to work against the Australian Worker ever since.

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Peter Freedman

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Re: Conservatives want Third World Australia
Reply #41 - May 18^th, 2012 at 10:27pm

Andrei.Hicks wrote on May 17^th, 2012 at 2:23pm:

Doctor Jolly wrote on May 17^th, 2012 at 2:17pm:

None of the liberals or those funding the liberals (BHP,etc) have actually said what they want changed ?

Be specific, or are they scared to mention work-choices ?

Workchoices had so much mud slung at it by the Unions in a deliberate smear campaign (read To the Bitter End) and it worked.

The actual concept of Workchoices is a good one.
To remove the third party influence, get Australians working to a more modern set of rules and regulations - give employers flexibility to respond to changed global market conditions etc.

I have worked my whole life on individual contracts with billion dollar multi-nationals.
Workchoices was about moving away from the rigid, stuck in the past 1970s style agreements and onto a more modern set of employment agreements as the norm.

It was a good thing.
But the Unions saw it as a threat to their power and chucked the kitchen sink at besmirching its name,

This is pure employer speak. I heard so much of it in NZ during the dark days of the Employment Contracts Act.

"Flexibility" means no overtime rates. no weekend penal payments, lower wages and lesser working conditions. It means the right to fire without reason and no right of appeal.

"Rigidity" means having legally enforceable collective employment contracts instead of vaguely worded individidual documents which have little legal force.

"Third party influence" of course means trade unions.

Organisations formed by working people to represent them and argue their case are NOT third parties. They are as much a part of the workplace as any employer.

Andrei is welcome to labour relations US style. Fortunately Australians and New Zealanders knew better and forced the dumping of both Work Choices and the ECA.

But now the Key government in NZ is trying again. So will Abbott if the Liberals gain power.

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Soren

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Re: Conservatives want Third World Australia
Reply #42 - May 18^th, 2012 at 10:41pm

At it's most simple, nobody owes anyone a job. Nobody is obliged to have you work for him.

All the progs (unionist prominent among them) want no fault divorce, for example, yet they want divorce between the employer and employee to be made all but impossible, if initiated by the employer. They want freedom for everyone except the employer. The employer must maintain the progs in a job, whether he wants to or not. The unionists can start a strike and NOT work, of course, whenever they decide.
It's all very hysterical and bitchy and gay.

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Sir Spot of Borg

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Re: Conservatives want Third World Australia
Reply #43 - May 19^th, 2012 at 8:46am

Soren wrote on May 18^th, 2012 at 10:41pm:

At it's most simple, nobody owes anyone a job. Nobody is obliged to have you work for him.

All the progs (unionist prominent among them) want no fault divorce, for example, yet they want divorce between the employer and employee to be made all but impossible, if initiated by the employer. They want freedom for everyone except the employer. The employer must maintain the progs in a job, whether he wants to or not. The unionists can start a strike and NOT work, of course, whenever they decide.
It's all very hysterical and bitchy and gay.

How is it gay?

SOB

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Avram Horowitz Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 3153 Australia Gender:	Re: Conservatives want Third World Australia Reply #44 - May 19^th, 2012 at 12:29pm Your signature is offensive and not true.
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Question: Should Australia adopt Chinese labour policies?
Yes 2 (22.2%) No 7 (77.8%) Total votes: 9 « Last Modified by: falah on: May 17^th, 2012 at 1:19pm »