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Poll Poll
Question: Should taxpayers money pay for private education ?

Yes    
  11 (35.5%)
No    
  20 (64.5%)




Total votes: 31
« Created by: Sir lastnail on: May 7th, 2012 at 11:47am »

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Should taxpayer pay for private education? (Read 21977 times)
Annie Anthrax
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Re: Should taxpayer pay for private education?
Reply #195 - May 11th, 2012 at 4:17pm  
Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on May 11th, 2012 at 3:01pm:
In my experience as a tutor




Do you mean at uni?
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Postmodern Trendoid III
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Re: Should taxpayer pay for private education?
Reply #196 - May 11th, 2012 at 4:33pm  
Annie Anthrax wrote on May 11th, 2012 at 4:17pm:
Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on May 11th, 2012 at 3:01pm:
In my experience as a tutor




Do you mean at uni?



Yes.
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Annie Anthrax
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Re: Should taxpayer pay for private education?
Reply #197 - May 11th, 2012 at 4:38pm  
Soren wrote on May 11th, 2012 at 3:08pm:
Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on May 11th, 2012 at 3:01pm:
there are always a handful who will do the least amount as possible.


And now they have been successfully re-labelled as 'disadvantaged' or having 'learnin difficulties' or coming from 'disadvantaged or immigrant' families. Or some other excuse. Everything is covered except the fact that most of these kids are bone lazy and stupid. Their parents should pay an extra levy and do community service.





Bolshie was talking about tutoring university students.

They must be bone lazy and stupid. Off with their parents' heads.
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Sir Spot of Borg
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Re: Should taxpayer pay for private education?
Reply #198 - May 11th, 2012 at 5:00pm  
longweekend58 wrote on May 11th, 2012 at 3:58pm:
Sir Spot of Borg wrote on May 11th, 2012 at 3:38pm:
the tolerator would not make a good teacher because he doesnt back up his so-called "facts" with evidence.

SOB


pot calling the kettle black!


I never made any grandiose claims. I said all along it is my opinion.

SOB
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Sir Spot of Borg
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Re: Should taxpayer pay for private education?
Reply #199 - May 11th, 2012 at 5:03pm  
longweekend58 wrote on May 11th, 2012 at 3:50pm:
Sir Spot of Borg wrote on May 11th, 2012 at 2:25pm:
Swagman wrote on May 11th, 2012 at 1:38pm:
longweekend58 wrote on May 11th, 2012 at 11:11am:
(4) to cover this increased enrollment the govt would have to pay $11,000 pers student simply to keep pace with current funding levels.

the simply an obvious answer is that for every private school student who leaves and goes to the public sector, the govt is $3500 WORSE OFF.

Please tell me you either understand this or wish to question it. and before you questino it keep in mind that almost all education professionals accept that this is correct.


Quote:
In 2011 there were 3,541,809 students attending schools in Australia, an increase of 30,934 (0.9%) compared with 2010.

In that time primary students rose by 1.3%, from 2,015,017 to 2,042,081, while secondary students rose by 0.3%, from 1,495,858 to 1,499,728.

In 2011, there were almost twice as many students attending government schools (2,315,253) as there were attending non-government schools (1,226,556), however the non-government sector continued its trend of stronger growth from 2010 to 2011.

In 2011 the split of students between government and non-government schools was 65.4% and 34.6% respectively and these figures reinforce the long-term drift of students from government schools to non-government schools. For 2001 the split was 69.0% and 31.0% respectively.
Source

An extra $13.5 Billion per year.......what would that do to Swan's surplus? Shocked Shocked Shocked

Private schooling is SAVING the taxpayer $13.5 Billion a year........ Shocked Shocked Shocked

If the Govt stopped funding private education they'd have to stop paying the dole to pay for it... Grin Grin Grin


Heh thanks soren but trolerator should have done that if he wanted to prove his point. I still say that it doesnt matter what the cost is the govt should invest more in public schools to make education better.

SOB


you assume that the problem is not enough money. no proof of course.

You might find a better way of getting better outcomes is giving MORE money to privte schools so they can greatly reduce fees and make them more accessible. And they already have much better educational outcomes.


I assume what? you have the wrong person there.

I disagree I think we should not fund private schools @ all but put the money (and prolly more) into public schools to make education better for EVERYONE instead of just the ppl that can afford it.

SOB
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longweekend58
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Re: Should taxpayer pay for private education?
Reply #200 - May 11th, 2012 at 5:15pm  
Sir Spot of Borg wrote on May 11th, 2012 at 5:00pm:
longweekend58 wrote on May 11th, 2012 at 3:58pm:
Sir Spot of Borg wrote on May 11th, 2012 at 3:38pm:
the tolerator would not make a good teacher because he doesnt back up his so-called "facts" with evidence.

SOB


pot calling the kettle black!


I never made any grandiose claims. I said all along it is my opinion.

SOB


and steadfastly refusing to let a single fact infect your opinion.  That is after all, one of the classic definitions of 'stupid'.
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longweekend58
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Re: Should taxpayer pay for private education?
Reply #201 - May 11th, 2012 at 5:17pm  
Sir Spot of Borg wrote on May 11th, 2012 at 5:03pm:
longweekend58 wrote on May 11th, 2012 at 3:50pm:
Sir Spot of Borg wrote on May 11th, 2012 at 2:25pm:
Swagman wrote on May 11th, 2012 at 1:38pm:
longweekend58 wrote on May 11th, 2012 at 11:11am:
(4) to cover this increased enrollment the govt would have to pay $11,000 pers student simply to keep pace with current funding levels.

the simply an obvious answer is that for every private school student who leaves and goes to the public sector, the govt is $3500 WORSE OFF.

Please tell me you either understand this or wish to question it. and before you questino it keep in mind that almost all education professionals accept that this is correct.


Quote:
In 2011 there were 3,541,809 students attending schools in Australia, an increase of 30,934 (0.9%) compared with 2010.

In that time primary students rose by 1.3%, from 2,015,017 to 2,042,081, while secondary students rose by 0.3%, from 1,495,858 to 1,499,728.

In 2011, there were almost twice as many students attending government schools (2,315,253) as there were attending non-government schools (1,226,556), however the non-government sector continued its trend of stronger growth from 2010 to 2011.

In 2011 the split of students between government and non-government schools was 65.4% and 34.6% respectively and these figures reinforce the long-term drift of students from government schools to non-government schools. For 2001 the split was 69.0% and 31.0% respectively.
Source

An extra $13.5 Billion per year.......what would that do to Swan's surplus? Shocked Shocked Shocked

Private schooling is SAVING the taxpayer $13.5 Billion a year........ Shocked Shocked Shocked

If the Govt stopped funding private education they'd have to stop paying the dole to pay for it... Grin Grin Grin


Heh thanks soren but trolerator should have done that if he wanted to prove his point. I still say that it doesnt matter what the cost is the govt should invest more in public schools to make education better.

SOB


you assume that the problem is not enough money. no proof of course.

You might find a better way of getting better outcomes is giving MORE money to privte schools so they can greatly reduce fees and make them more accessible. And they already have much better educational outcomes.


I assume what? you have the wrong person there.

I disagree I think we should not fund private schools @ all but put the money (and prolly more) into public schools to make education better for EVERYONE instead of just the ppl that can afford it.

SOB


all you do is repeat that abject stupid statement as if it is gospel. in your world 1+1=3. And yes, that is your opinion and you are entitled to it. We are however just as entitled to laugh at you and call you stupid if you cannot count.
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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."
 
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Sir Spot of Borg
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Re: Should taxpayer pay for private education?
Reply #202 - May 11th, 2012 at 5:22pm  
longweekend58 wrote on May 11th, 2012 at 5:15pm:
Sir Spot of Borg wrote on May 11th, 2012 at 5:00pm:
longweekend58 wrote on May 11th, 2012 at 3:58pm:
Sir Spot of Borg wrote on May 11th, 2012 at 3:38pm:
the tolerator would not make a good teacher because he doesnt back up his so-called "facts" with evidence.

SOB


pot calling the kettle black!


I never made any grandiose claims. I said all along it is my opinion.

SOB


and steadfastly refusing to let a single fact infect your opinion.  That is after all, one of the classic definitions of 'stupid'.


You are wrong. Stupid.

SOB
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Sir Spot of Borg
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Re: Should taxpayer pay for private education?
Reply #203 - May 11th, 2012 at 5:23pm  
longweekend58 wrote on May 11th, 2012 at 5:17pm:
Sir Spot of Borg wrote on May 11th, 2012 at 5:03pm:
longweekend58 wrote on May 11th, 2012 at 3:50pm:
Sir Spot of Borg wrote on May 11th, 2012 at 2:25pm:
Swagman wrote on May 11th, 2012 at 1:38pm:
longweekend58 wrote on May 11th, 2012 at 11:11am:
(4) to cover this increased enrollment the govt would have to pay $11,000 pers student simply to keep pace with current funding levels.

the simply an obvious answer is that for every private school student who leaves and goes to the public sector, the govt is $3500 WORSE OFF.

Please tell me you either understand this or wish to question it. and before you questino it keep in mind that almost all education professionals accept that this is correct.


Quote:
In 2011 there were 3,541,809 students attending schools in Australia, an increase of 30,934 (0.9%) compared with 2010.

In that time primary students rose by 1.3%, from 2,015,017 to 2,042,081, while secondary students rose by 0.3%, from 1,495,858 to 1,499,728.

In 2011, there were almost twice as many students attending government schools (2,315,253) as there were attending non-government schools (1,226,556), however the non-government sector continued its trend of stronger growth from 2010 to 2011.

In 2011 the split of students between government and non-government schools was 65.4% and 34.6% respectively and these figures reinforce the long-term drift of students from government schools to non-government schools. For 2001 the split was 69.0% and 31.0% respectively.
Source

An extra $13.5 Billion per year.......what would that do to Swan's surplus? Shocked Shocked Shocked

Private schooling is SAVING the taxpayer $13.5 Billion a year........ Shocked Shocked Shocked

If the Govt stopped funding private education they'd have to stop paying the dole to pay for it... Grin Grin Grin


Heh thanks soren but trolerator should have done that if he wanted to prove his point. I still say that it doesnt matter what the cost is the govt should invest more in public schools to make education better.

SOB


you assume that the problem is not enough money. no proof of course.

You might find a better way of getting better outcomes is giving MORE money to privte schools so they can greatly reduce fees and make them more accessible. And they already have much better educational outcomes.


I assume what? you have the wrong person there.

I disagree I think we should not fund private schools @ all but put the money (and prolly more) into public schools to make education better for EVERYONE instead of just the ppl that can afford it.

SOB


all you do is repeat that abject stupid statement as if it is gospel. in your world 1+1=3. And yes, that is your opinion and you are entitled to it. We are however just as entitled to laugh at you and call you stupid if you cannot count.


And all you do is throw insults @ me because i dont accept your words as gospel.

SOB
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longweekend58
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Re: Should taxpayer pay for private education?
Reply #204 - May 11th, 2012 at 6:25pm  
Sir Spot of Borg wrote on May 11th, 2012 at 5:23pm:
longweekend58 wrote on May 11th, 2012 at 5:17pm:
Sir Spot of Borg wrote on May 11th, 2012 at 5:03pm:
longweekend58 wrote on May 11th, 2012 at 3:50pm:
Sir Spot of Borg wrote on May 11th, 2012 at 2:25pm:
Swagman wrote on May 11th, 2012 at 1:38pm:
longweekend58 wrote on May 11th, 2012 at 11:11am:
(4) to cover this increased enrollment the govt would have to pay $11,000 pers student simply to keep pace with current funding levels.

the simply an obvious answer is that for every private school student who leaves and goes to the public sector, the govt is $3500 WORSE OFF.

Please tell me you either understand this or wish to question it. and before you questino it keep in mind that almost all education professionals accept that this is correct.


Quote:
In 2011 there were 3,541,809 students attending schools in Australia, an increase of 30,934 (0.9%) compared with 2010.

In that time primary students rose by 1.3%, from 2,015,017 to 2,042,081, while secondary students rose by 0.3%, from 1,495,858 to 1,499,728.

In 2011, there were almost twice as many students attending government schools (2,315,253) as there were attending non-government schools (1,226,556), however the non-government sector continued its trend of stronger growth from 2010 to 2011.

In 2011 the split of students between government and non-government schools was 65.4% and 34.6% respectively and these figures reinforce the long-term drift of students from government schools to non-government schools. For 2001 the split was 69.0% and 31.0% respectively.
Source

An extra $13.5 Billion per year.......what would that do to Swan's surplus? Shocked Shocked Shocked

Private schooling is SAVING the taxpayer $13.5 Billion a year........ Shocked Shocked Shocked

If the Govt stopped funding private education they'd have to stop paying the dole to pay for it... Grin Grin Grin


Heh thanks soren but trolerator should have done that if he wanted to prove his point. I still say that it doesnt matter what the cost is the govt should invest more in public schools to make education better.

SOB


you assume that the problem is not enough money. no proof of course.

You might find a better way of getting better outcomes is giving MORE money to privte schools so they can greatly reduce fees and make them more accessible. And they already have much better educational outcomes.


I assume what? you have the wrong person there.

I disagree I think we should not fund private schools @ all but put the money (and prolly more) into public schools to make education better for EVERYONE instead of just the ppl that can afford it.

SOB


all you do is repeat that abject stupid statement as if it is gospel. in your world 1+1=3. And yes, that is your opinion and you are entitled to it. We are however just as entitled to laugh at you and call you stupid if you cannot count.


And all you do is throw insults @ me because i dont accept your words as gospel.

SOB


you dont accept ANYONE's words. thats the problem. you seem incapable of accepting any information other than your own.
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Sir Spot of Borg
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Re: Should taxpayer pay for private education?
Reply #205 - May 11th, 2012 at 6:34pm  
longweekend58 wrote on May 11th, 2012 at 6:25pm:
Sir Spot of Borg wrote on May 11th, 2012 at 5:23pm:
longweekend58 wrote on May 11th, 2012 at 5:17pm:
Sir Spot of Borg wrote on May 11th, 2012 at 5:03pm:
longweekend58 wrote on May 11th, 2012 at 3:50pm:
Sir Spot of Borg wrote on May 11th, 2012 at 2:25pm:
Swagman wrote on May 11th, 2012 at 1:38pm:
longweekend58 wrote on May 11th, 2012 at 11:11am:
(4) to cover this increased enrollment the govt would have to pay $11,000 pers student simply to keep pace with current funding levels.

the simply an obvious answer is that for every private school student who leaves and goes to the public sector, the govt is $3500 WORSE OFF.

Please tell me you either understand this or wish to question it. and before you questino it keep in mind that almost all education professionals accept that this is correct.


Quote:
In 2011 there were 3,541,809 students attending schools in Australia, an increase of 30,934 (0.9%) compared with 2010.

In that time primary students rose by 1.3%, from 2,015,017 to 2,042,081, while secondary students rose by 0.3%, from 1,495,858 to 1,499,728.

In 2011, there were almost twice as many students attending government schools (2,315,253) as there were attending non-government schools (1,226,556), however the non-government sector continued its trend of stronger growth from 2010 to 2011.

In 2011 the split of students between government and non-government schools was 65.4% and 34.6% respectively and these figures reinforce the long-term drift of students from government schools to non-government schools. For 2001 the split was 69.0% and 31.0% respectively.
Source

An extra $13.5 Billion per year.......what would that do to Swan's surplus? Shocked Shocked Shocked

Private schooling is SAVING the taxpayer $13.5 Billion a year........ Shocked Shocked Shocked

If the Govt stopped funding private education they'd have to stop paying the dole to pay for it... Grin Grin Grin


Heh thanks soren but trolerator should have done that if he wanted to prove his point. I still say that it doesnt matter what the cost is the govt should invest more in public schools to make education better.

SOB


you assume that the problem is not enough money. no proof of course.

You might find a better way of getting better outcomes is giving MORE money to privte schools so they can greatly reduce fees and make them more accessible. And they already have much better educational outcomes.


I assume what? you have the wrong person there.

I disagree I think we should not fund private schools @ all but put the money (and prolly more) into public schools to make education better for EVERYONE instead of just the ppl that can afford it.

SOB


all you do is repeat that abject stupid statement as if it is gospel. in your world 1+1=3. And yes, that is your opinion and you are entitled to it. We are however just as entitled to laugh at you and call you stupid if you cannot count.


And all you do is throw insults @ me because i dont accept your words as gospel.

SOB


you dont accept ANYONE's words. thats the problem. you seem incapable of accepting any information other than your own.


Haha sure i do. When have I not accepted any words? I just dont agree. You dont agree with me. Have I called you stupid for not agreeing with me? No I have called you stupid for calling me stupid.

SOB
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freediver
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Re: Should taxpayer pay for private education?
Reply #206 - May 11th, 2012 at 6:44pm  
Quote:
Stop calling me stupid. You know i get your "point" i just disagree.


I did not call you stupid. If you disagree, why don't you attempt to come up with a rational counterargument rather than repeating silly mantras? How do you know you get my point? Nothing you have said indicates you do.

Quote:
you have not provided any evidence to support your opinion either so mine is just as valid.


I have put together an argument that makes sense, which puts me well ahead of you. What's the point of getting evidence for you if you don't even understand the argument it is supporting? I have already wasted 15 pages trying to get something sensible out of you.

Quote:
I am saying it doesnt matter whether its cheaper or not since its supposedly the childrens education we are investing in. Spend what we have to to make public schools decent.


SOB, I have pointed out to you that the argument over the total amount spent is completely separable from the argument about private school subsidies. The negative impact of removing the private option will still be a negative impact no matter how much money you throw at the problem. I realise this might being pushing it by talking about two different concepts in the one post, but surely you can stop sprouting your 'its just an opinion' BS long enough to try to understand what people are telling you?

Am I right that your entire argument can be summed up as "money grows on trees so it doesn't matter if my idea makes things worse because we should just keep throwing more money at the problem until it offsets all the stupid decisions"?

Quote:
I have been saying that ALL ALONG but you obviously cant read or comprehend.


I don't think you have previously been so clear about not caring about the consequences.

Quote:
No why should i take your word for it?


SO now you do care about the cost? How are we supposed to make sense of your posts SOB?

Quote:
You expect me to believe you because you say so?


No SOB. It is not about belief. It is about a rational argument. You should not take it on faith. You should attempt to understand for yourself.

Quote:
I stated my opinion and you stated yours. Its all opinion unless you show me some evidence that what you are saying is true  freediver/tolerator/sock.


Wrong again SOB. Between empty headed opinion and evidence is a thing called rational argument. Evidence is no use at all if you can't make sense of it. The only evidence you need for an opinion is the fact that you think it.

Quote:
Oh really. A fact huh? Why should i believe you? Because you said so?


If you think a different amount is spent the first thing you should do is provide that amount, not merely insist you don't 'believe it'. You asked for the evidence, it was given to you.



Quote:
And Montessori doesn't mean no physical activity. You seem to be obsessed with the sports mentality which means squat


No Nail. There is far more to preschool education than sport. Thing of play and socialising. Kids learn a lot just from trying to play with each other.

Nail do you think we use play based learning with ten year old kids?
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Sir Spot of Borg
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Re: Should taxpayer pay for private education?
Reply #207 - May 11th, 2012 at 7:05pm  
Quote:
I did not call you stupid. If you disagree, why don't you attempt to come up with a rational counterargument rather than repeating silly mantras? How do you know you get my point? Nothing you have said indicates you do.


So you are admitting that you are tolerator and/or longweekend then? So is this forum just me and you?

Quote:
I have put together an argument that makes sense, which puts me well ahead of you. What's the point of getting evidence for you if you don't even understand the argument it is supporting? I have already wasted 15 pages trying to get something sensible out of you.


It makes sense to you maybe. And you keep repeating it like a mantra. I have acknowledged it several times but you refuse to acknowledge my acknowledgment. I am prolly never going to agree.

Quote:
Am I right that your entire argument can be summed up as "money grows on trees so it doesn't matter if my idea makes things worse because we should just keep throwing more money at the problem until it offsets all the stupid decisions"?


So you dont care about the children's education? Its just the money to you?

Quote:
No SOB. It is not about belief. It is about a rational argument. You should not take it on faith. You should attempt to understand for yourself.


How about you practice what you preach? Do you accept my argument? You should @ least attempt to understand it instead of purposely misinterpreting it so you can insult me.

Quote:
The only evidence you need for an opinion is the fact that you think it.


I will leave that one alone.

Quote:
If you think a different amount is spent the first thing you should do is provide that amount, not merely insist you don't 'believe it'. You asked for the evidence, it was given to you.


Not by you. Unless you are swagman as well?? WTF? Is it just me and you on this forum?

In case you missed it I thanked swagman for the link (acknowledgment) and said that I think the money would be better spent on making public schools better.

SOB
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Re: Should taxpayer pay for private education?
Reply #208 - May 11th, 2012 at 7:14pm  
...
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In the fullness of time...
 
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longweekend58
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Re: Should taxpayer pay for private education?
Reply #209 - May 11th, 2012 at 7:14pm  
Sir Spot of Borg wrote on May 11th, 2012 at 7:05pm:
Quote:
I did not call you stupid. If you disagree, why don't you attempt to come up with a rational counterargument rather than repeating silly mantras? How do you know you get my point? Nothing you have said indicates you do.


So you are admitting that you are tolerator and/or longweekend then? So is this forum just me and you?

Quote:
I have put together an argument that makes sense, which puts me well ahead of you. What's the point of getting evidence for you if you don't even understand the argument it is supporting? I have already wasted 15 pages trying to get something sensible out of you.


It makes sense to you maybe. And you keep repeating it like a mantra. I have acknowledged it several times but you refuse to acknowledge my acknowledgment. I am prolly never going to agree.

Quote:
Am I right that your entire argument can be summed up as "money grows on trees so it doesn't matter if my idea makes things worse because we should just keep throwing more money at the problem until it offsets all the stupid decisions"?


So you dont care about the children's education? Its just the money to you?

Quote:
No SOB. It is not about belief. It is about a rational argument. You should not take it on faith. You should attempt to understand for yourself.


How about you practice what you preach? Do you accept my argument? You should @ least attempt to understand it instead of purposely misinterpreting it so you can insult me.

Quote:
The only evidence you need for an opinion is the fact that you think it.


I will leave that one alone.

Quote:
If you think a different amount is spent the first thing you should do is provide that amount, not merely insist you don't 'believe it'. You asked for the evidence, it was given to you.


Not by you. Unless you are swagman as well?? WTF? Is it just me and you on this forum?

In case you missed it I thanked swagman for the link (acknowledgment) and said that I think the money would be better spent on making public schools better.

SOB


new standards for obstinate stupidty being set with every new SOB post....
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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."
 
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