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The two party system no longer works (Read 3893 times)
borntorule
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Re: The two party system no longer works
Reply #30 - May 3rd, 2012 at 3:49pm
 
Sir Spot of Borg wrote on May 3rd, 2012 at 1:15pm:
borntorule wrote on May 3rd, 2012 at 12:56pm:
Sir Spot of Borg wrote on May 3rd, 2012 at 12:38pm:
borntorule wrote on May 3rd, 2012 at 10:56am:
Sir Spot of Borg wrote on May 3rd, 2012 at 10:34am:
borntorule wrote on May 3rd, 2012 at 10:20am:
Sir Spot of Borg wrote on May 2nd, 2012 at 7:01pm:
The problem is THEY dont want a 3rd party so it wont ever be an option. Didnt howard bring in some law about no more new parties starting up?

SOB


Seriously? you want to make a claim like that which breaks about a hundred laws and several sections of the constitution?


Have a look. Its not a claim its a question. I remember him trying to bring in some legislation to stop new parties starting up. I dont know if he managed it or not but I expect he might have since I dont see any new parties.

Besides @ what time did Howard care about the constitution?

SOB


I dont and nor does anyone else. And it doesnt matter if anyone cares about the constitution or not. Teh High Court is there to ensure that it is upheld.


Maybe. Maybe someone else does. Hence my question. Thats the way it is though isnt it. Short memories and ppl make the same mistakes over and over. You would think we learned from the howard era. Nooo we let gillard do the same things. And then we will allow abbott to do even worse things.

SOB


NOBODY is proposing a limit on the number of political parties nor has anyone ever done so. So what exactly is your point? The closest we got was a proposed ban on the Communist Party under Menzies which was rejected.


If you are going to tell me my memory is @ fault then you need to back it up somehow. Just because you dont remember it doesnt mean it didnt happen. I remember him proposing something to stop new parties starting up. You dont.

SOB


Find a link or some reference other than your flawed memory. It is both illegal and unconstitutional so he most certinaly did NOT try to do so.
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borntorule
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Re: The two party system no longer works
Reply #31 - May 3rd, 2012 at 3:51pm
 
Sir Spot of Borg wrote on May 3rd, 2012 at 1:17pm:
borntorule wrote on May 3rd, 2012 at 1:00pm:
Sir Spot of Borg wrote on May 3rd, 2012 at 12:41pm:
Quote:
Quoting Pilger is one of the better ways to getting ignored. The other books dont exactly build your credibility either.


So someone reads a book you disagree with (and prolly havent even read yourself) and that invalidates anything they say? Quoting something someone else says is usually because they said it better than you think you can yourself.

SOB


John PIlger has quite the reputation. And on that basis I dont take much notice of people quoting him as do a lot of others. They are outdated rants from the discredited socialism experiements. And it was just the same quotes brought out yet again, from the same person no matter whatthe actual topic is. This thread is about voting systems. Why does  rant on employment have anything to do with it?

Posting ON TOPIC does wonders for credibility.


Well complain about the off topic comments then. Why use the excuse that he quoted someone you have judged on heresay?

SOB


Because Pilger IS an idiot. And while I think you meant 'hearsay', 'heresy' also works.
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Sir Spot of Borg
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Re: The two party system no longer works
Reply #32 - May 3rd, 2012 at 4:10pm
 
borntorule wrote on May 3rd, 2012 at 3:49pm:
Sir Spot of Borg wrote on May 3rd, 2012 at 1:15pm:
borntorule wrote on May 3rd, 2012 at 12:56pm:
Sir Spot of Borg wrote on May 3rd, 2012 at 12:38pm:
borntorule wrote on May 3rd, 2012 at 10:56am:
Sir Spot of Borg wrote on May 3rd, 2012 at 10:34am:
borntorule wrote on May 3rd, 2012 at 10:20am:
Sir Spot of Borg wrote on May 2nd, 2012 at 7:01pm:
The problem is THEY dont want a 3rd party so it wont ever be an option. Didnt howard bring in some law about no more new parties starting up?

SOB


Seriously? you want to make a claim like that which breaks about a hundred laws and several sections of the constitution?


Have a look. Its not a claim its a question. I remember him trying to bring in some legislation to stop new parties starting up. I dont know if he managed it or not but I expect he might have since I dont see any new parties.

Besides @ what time did Howard care about the constitution?

SOB


I dont and nor does anyone else. And it doesnt matter if anyone cares about the constitution or not. Teh High Court is there to ensure that it is upheld.


Maybe. Maybe someone else does. Hence my question. Thats the way it is though isnt it. Short memories and ppl make the same mistakes over and over. You would think we learned from the howard era. Nooo we let gillard do the same things. And then we will allow abbott to do even worse things.

SOB


NOBODY is proposing a limit on the number of political parties nor has anyone ever done so. So what exactly is your point? The closest we got was a proposed ban on the Communist Party under Menzies which was rejected.


If you are going to tell me my memory is @ fault then you need to back it up somehow. Just because you dont remember it doesnt mean it didnt happen. I remember him proposing something to stop new parties starting up. You dont.

SOB


Find a link or some reference other than your flawed memory. It is both illegal and unconstitutional so he most certinaly did NOT try to do so.


This is the only reference i can find right now but ill look later when i have more time:

Quote:
Neither can a heretic be considered as a candidate for preselection by a political party. But just in case new political parties emerged, former PM John Howard had all unsuccessful small parties deregistered; disingenuously aware that all new parties are at first unsuccessful.


Not sure about the heretic thing since I dont remember but the deregistered thing sounds like it. They may have re-registered later I dont remember if he got his thing through.

link

As for pilger I have heard he has some interesting stuff to say. I dont know though because I havent read him. What are you basing your judgement on?

SOB
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borntorule
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Re: The two party system no longer works
Reply #33 - May 3rd, 2012 at 5:03pm
 
Quote:
This is the only reference i can find right now but ill look later when i have more time:

Quote:

Neither can a heretic be considered as a candidate for preselection by a political party. But just in case new political parties emerged, former PM John Howard had all unsuccessful small parties deregistered; disingenuously aware that all new parties are at first unsuccessful.


Not sure about the heretic thing since I dont remember but the deregistered thing sounds like it. They may have re-registered later I dont remember if he got his thing through.


If I question your intelligence it is because I am not yet ready to fully question your sanity. Did the word 'heretic' not clue you into this unattributed quote being drivel?
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bobbythefap1
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Re: The two party system no longer works
Reply #34 - May 3rd, 2012 at 5:05pm
 
borntorule wrote on May 3rd, 2012 at 5:03pm:
Quote:
This is the only reference i can find right now but ill look later when i have more time:

Quote:

Neither can a heretic be considered as a candidate for preselection by a political party. But just in case new political parties emerged, former PM John Howard had all unsuccessful small parties deregistered; disingenuously aware that all new parties are at first unsuccessful.


Not sure about the heretic thing since I dont remember but the deregistered thing sounds like it. They may have re-registered later I dont remember if he got his thing through.


If I question your intelligence it is because I am not yet ready to fully question your sanity. Did the word 'heretic' not clue you into this unattributed quote being drivel?

Here puss puss
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hawil
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Re: The two party system no longer works
Reply #35 - May 3rd, 2012 at 5:55pm
 
borntorule wrote on May 3rd, 2012 at 12:22pm:
hawil wrote on May 3rd, 2012 at 12:16pm:
freediver wrote on May 2nd, 2012 at 9:41pm:
The introduction of compulsory-optional preferential voting in some states will make it harder for third parties to compete.

Quote:
To have a true Democracy, it should be compulsory for every politician to answer any correspondence from any citizen.


Is that a joke? Or are you trying to institutionalise the form letter?


Why do you think that my last comment is a joke?
when the elections are held, there may be no candidate that a citizen wants to vote for, because most, if not all politicians are in politics for their own benefit and the politicians have sufficient resources and staff to answer citizens letters or e-mails.

In the book “Unemployment forever or a Support Income System and Work For All”, by Allan McDonald, on page 142 (h) it is stated: Any means tested welfare system requires extensive and complex state control and regulation. Australia is slowly but surely moving towards the ultimate outcome of a means tested social welfare system-state control over finances, the savings, and the labours of the poorest in the community.

Have the politicians of Australia the know-how and will to change the tax and social system to be more egalitarian, or was the late Professor A.J.Marshall right when he wrote, as quoted in the book “Equality and Authority” by S Encel on page212: “Most Australian politicians, he wrote, aspire to parliamentary seats ‘to better their salary, to inflate their egos and feather their nests’.

John Pilger in his book “The new rulers of the world” wrote on page 175: Like Britain and the US, Australia is a single ideology state with two competing factions, discernible largely by the personalities of their politicians. The difference between Howard’s conservative coalition and the opposition Labor Party is that Howards policies are not veiled. The Labor governments of the 1980s and early 1990s oversaw the greatest distribution of wealth in the country’s history: from bottom to top. They were Thatcherite and Reganite in all but name. Indeed, Tony Blair described then Prime Minister Paul Keating as his
‘inspiration’.


Quoting Pilger is one of the better ways to getting ignored. The other books dont exactly build your credibility either.

Should I quote Murdoch; and he has a lot of influence on politics, not the best.
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Sir Spot of Borg
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Re: The two party system no longer works
Reply #36 - May 3rd, 2012 at 6:04pm
 
borntorule wrote on May 3rd, 2012 at 5:03pm:
Quote:
This is the only reference i can find right now but ill look later when i have more time:

Quote:

Neither can a heretic be considered as a candidate for preselection by a political party. But just in case new political parties emerged, former PM John Howard had all unsuccessful small parties deregistered; disingenuously aware that all new parties are at first unsuccessful.


Not sure about the heretic thing since I dont remember but the deregistered thing sounds like it. They may have re-registered later I dont remember if he got his thing through.


If I question your intelligence it is because I am not yet ready to fully question your sanity. Did the word 'heretic' not clue you into this unattributed quote being drivel?


I still dont have much time and will have to search more thoroughly tomorrow but here is mention of it from a party that was deregistered. They supply a link it seems to the actual act itself.

Link

Look I dont know what it was i dont remember but it was something to do with stopping all those little parties starting up. Obviously he wouldnt like this one.

Doesnt anyone else remember this crap? Comon it was in the news and everything! He may not have got it through but he tried.

SOB
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Sir Spot of Borg
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Re: The two party system no longer works
Reply #37 - May 4th, 2012 at 10:20am
 
I will leave it @ that. It shows that something happened and thats all I said.

SOB
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hawil
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Re: The two party system no longer works
Reply #38 - May 4th, 2012 at 5:11pm
 
borntorule wrote on May 3rd, 2012 at 3:51pm:
Sir Spot of Borg wrote on May 3rd, 2012 at 1:17pm:
borntorule wrote on May 3rd, 2012 at 1:00pm:
Sir Spot of Borg wrote on May 3rd, 2012 at 12:41pm:
Quote:
Quoting Pilger is one of the better ways to getting ignored. The other books dont exactly build your credibility either.


So someone reads a book you disagree with (and prolly havent even read yourself) and that invalidates anything they say? Quoting something someone else says is usually because they said it better than you think you can yourself.

SOB


John PIlger has quite the reputation. And on that basis I dont take much notice of people quoting him as do a lot of others. They are outdated rants from the discredited socialism experiements. And it was just the same quotes brought out yet again, from the same person no matter whatthe actual topic is. This thread is about voting systems. Why does  rant on employment have anything to do with it?

Posting ON TOPIC does wonders for credibility.


Well complain about the off topic comments then. Why use the excuse that he quoted someone you have judged on heresay?

SOB


Because Pilger IS an idiot. And while I think you meant 'hearsay', 'heresy' also works.

John Pilger has managed to write some books, which you or many others may not agree with, but to call him an idiot, is a bit rich.
You call yourself "borntorule".
Can you please tell me and others of some of your achievements, or what you have written; I,am always prepared to read other people s views.
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longweekend58
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Re: The two party system no longer works
Reply #39 - May 4th, 2012 at 5:31pm
 
Sir Spot of Borg wrote on May 3rd, 2012 at 6:04pm:
borntorule wrote on May 3rd, 2012 at 5:03pm:
Quote:
This is the only reference i can find right now but ill look later when i have more time:

Quote:

Neither can a heretic be considered as a candidate for preselection by a political party. But just in case new political parties emerged, former PM John Howard had all unsuccessful small parties deregistered; disingenuously aware that all new parties are at first unsuccessful.


Not sure about the heretic thing since I dont remember but the deregistered thing sounds like it. They may have re-registered later I dont remember if he got his thing through.


If I question your intelligence it is because I am not yet ready to fully question your sanity. Did the word 'heretic' not clue you into this unattributed quote being drivel?


I still dont have much time and will have to search more thoroughly tomorrow but here is mention of it from a party that was deregistered. They supply a link it seems to the actual act itself.

Link

Look I dont know what it was i dont remember but it was something to do with stopping all those little parties starting up. Obviously he wouldnt like this one.

Doesnt anyone else remember this crap? Comon it was in the news and everything! He may not have got it through but he tried.

SOB


that link said almost nothing on the topic. I am guessing (because the story doesnt say) that to be a political party that is registered by the Electoral Commission you ahve to have 500 financial members. Been that way for some time. That is all.
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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."
 
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Gist
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Re: The two party system no longer works
Reply #40 - May 4th, 2012 at 5:32pm
 
hawil wrote on May 4th, 2012 at 5:11pm:
You call yourself "borntorule".
Can you please tell me and others of some of your achievements, or what you have written; I,am always prepared to read other people s views.


He's a "published author". He is! Just ask him!!

I think that means he wrote a letter to the editor at the SMH and it got published.
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longweekend58
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Re: The two party system no longer works
Reply #41 - May 4th, 2012 at 5:40pm
 
Gist wrote on May 4th, 2012 at 5:32pm:
hawil wrote on May 4th, 2012 at 5:11pm:
You call yourself "borntorule".
Can you please tell me and others of some of your achievements, or what you have written; I,am always prepared to read other people s views.


He's a "published author". He is! Just ask him!!

I think that means he wrote a letter to the editor at the SMH and it got published.


Its on amazon and sold world-wide. and no, Im not telling you what it is.
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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."
 
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Gist
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Re: The two party system no longer works
Reply #42 - May 4th, 2012 at 5:51pm
 
longweekend58 wrote on May 4th, 2012 at 5:40pm:
Its on amazon and sold world-wide. and no, Im not telling you what it is.


Well! Have to admit that that came as a surprise. I'll have to regard you in a new light from now on Veronica:

http://www.amazon.com/The-Long-Weekend-ebook/dp/B007PR36BG/ref=sr_1_23?ie=UTF8&q...
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"When our military goes to war it should be for purposes and objectives clearly in Australia’s interests, not merely because the Americans want some company" - Malcolm Fraser (2012 Whitlam Oration)
 
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longweekend58
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Re: The two party system no longer works
Reply #43 - May 4th, 2012 at 5:56pm
 
Gist wrote on May 4th, 2012 at 5:51pm:
longweekend58 wrote on May 4th, 2012 at 5:40pm:
Its on amazon and sold world-wide. and no, Im not telling you what it is.


Well! Have to admit that that came as a surprise. I'll have to regard you in a new light from now on Veronica:

http://www.amazon.com/The-Long-Weekend-ebook/dp/B007PR36BG/ref=sr_1_23?ie=UTF8&q...


Good try and an entertaining book but by the look of her rank, my kindle version is selling 5 times as many copies. the paperback version is not selling as well.
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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."
 
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Sir Spot of Borg
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Re: The two party system no longer works
Reply #44 - May 4th, 2012 at 6:16pm
 
Quote:
that link said almost nothing on the topic. I am guessing (because the story doesnt say) that to be a political party that is registered by the Electoral Commission you ahve to have 500 financial members. Been that way for some time. That is all.


That may be it - since howard. I dunno i wasnt the one making the big deal about it.

SOB
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