Australian Politics Forum - Compulsory Voting

Ex Dame Pansi

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Re: Compulsory Voting
Reply #30 - Apr 20^th, 2012 at 2:38pm

Uncle Meat wrote on Apr 20^th, 2012 at 2:25pm:

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Apr 20^th, 2012 at 1:56pm:

No. Its not "having responsibilities". Its being forced to do something by a govt. If it were a responsibility it wouldn't be mandatory.

Yep, governments do that.

They shouldn't call themselves democratic then.

A list of countries that have compulsory voting. It's a short list. Five countries that enforce their citizens to vote.

Australia
Belgium
Italy-not enforced
Luxembourg
Greece-not enforced
Argentina
Brazil

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voter_turnout

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corporate_whitey

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Re: Compulsory Voting
Reply #31 - Apr 20^th, 2012 at 2:47pm

You havew to view with suspicion the motives of those constantly looking for ways to disenfranchise the poorer in the community from the economy and from the decision making process and that is what the proposal to cut compulsory voting is. It is a cynical and dishonest pitch to take a small voice away from the voiceless on election day. It is mean spirited and in my view a subversive agenda by those seeking personal corrupt financial and political advantage at a time when this kind of immoral behavior must be placed under the closest of scrutiny. We must be closely on the watch for the Perverse, there is just too many lives at stake to allow the selfish and the ruthless to have their way.

I view Pansi's agenda here with the utmost of cynicism and suspicion. Huh

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JasonPK

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Re: Compulsory Voting
Reply #32 - Apr 20^th, 2012 at 2:47pm

You really have to be a bit of a fascist if you prefer threats of fines enforceable with violence over peaceful means of encouraging voting.

Only 10 nations in the world enforce compulsory voting and none of them are great bastions of democratic freedom - far from it! It's better if our decision to vote is democratic. We might even get higher voter turnouts that way.

Currently our turnouts are only 81%. They'd be a lot lower if you count all the donkey votes, informal votes and blind guesses.

In Sweden, Denmark, Iceland and Malta they have higher turnouts than we do under voluntary voting. Here, over 10% of eligible voters aren't even registered to vote.

In countries with voluntary voting (almost all democracies) 100% of the people who vote do so because they want to, because they're informed. Here some people only file into the polling booth like a donkey to avoid a fine.

Our decision to vote should be democratic. It's the only fair way to maintain a perfect electoral sample free from government interference and bias. Each person should have the same equal free choice to vote - it should be their choice. Not yours. Not mine. And certainly not the government's say as to who attends the polling booth.

Again, you're a bit of a fascist if you choose violence instead of peaceful means of encouraging people to exercise their democratic freedom.

Under voluntary voting the leaders who can't educate, inform, inspire, motivate and empower the electorate will be replaced by leaders who can. True democratic leaders.

Join us at Free Our Right To Vote on Facebook.

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corporate_whitey

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Re: Compulsory Voting
Reply #33 - Apr 20^th, 2012 at 2:52pm

Australia was the country is was because it led the way with democratic compulsory voting - the idea of cutting the voice of the poor and disenfranchised out of the political participatory role it now enjoys is repugnant and offensive to any civilized person and those pushing this agenda should be viewed as perverts and subversives and watched closely. Cool

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darkhall67

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Re: Compulsory Voting
Reply #34 - Apr 20^th, 2012 at 2:54pm

Ex Dame Pansi wrote on Apr 20^th, 2012 at 2:38pm:

Uncle Meat wrote on Apr 20^th, 2012 at 2:25pm:

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Apr 20^th, 2012 at 1:56pm:

No. Its not "having responsibilities". Its being forced to do something by a govt. If it were a responsibility it wouldn't be mandatory.

Yep, governments do that.

They shouldn't call themselves democratic then.

A list of countries that have compulsory voting. It's a short list. Five countries that enforce their citizens to vote.

Australia
Belgium
Italy-not enforced
Luxembourg
Greece-not enforced
Argentina
Brazil

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voter_turnout

And not a dictatorial totalitarian repressive regime among them.

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Dnarever Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 61977 Here Gender:	Re: Compulsory Voting Reply #35 - Apr 20^th, 2012 at 2:54pm Part of being Australian is having the responsibility to vote. The majority of people against (not all) are only against compulsory voting because they think that a low vote is to their advantage.
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Uncle Meat

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Re: Compulsory Voting
Reply #36 - Apr 20^th, 2012 at 2:56pm

Ex Dame Pansi wrote on Apr 20^th, 2012 at 2:38pm:

They shouldn't call themselves democratic then.

Yep, that's one of the arguments.

•It is undemocratic to force people to vote – an infringement of liberty
•The ill informed and those with little interest in politics are forced to the polls
•It may increase the number of "donkey votes"
•It may increase the number of informal votes
•It increases the number of safe, single-member electorates – political parties then concentrate on the more marginal electorates
•Resources must be allocated to determine whether those who failed to vote have "valid and sufficient" reasons.

This is the one that concerns me the most:

"The ill informed and those with little interest in politics are forced to the polls".

The amount of ignorance one encounters in the line on polling day is staggering. Some of the things I've heard people say are just crazy. Some of those people really shouldn't be voting.

However, the arguments used in favour of compulsory voting are:

•Voting is a civic duty comparable to other duties citizens perform e.g. taxation, compulsory education, jury duty
•Teaches the benefits of political participation
•Parliament reflects more accurately the "will of the electorate"
•Governments must consider the total electorate in policy formulation and management
•Candidates can concentrate their campaigning energies on issues rather than encouraging voters to attend the poll
•The voter isn't actually compelled to vote for anyone because voting is by secret ballot.

It doesn't really bother me one way or the other. I'd still vote if it wasn't compulsory.

Maybe we should have a vote on it.

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darkhall67

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Re: Compulsory Voting
Reply #37 - Apr 20^th, 2012 at 2:57pm

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Apr 20^th, 2012 at 1:56pm:

darkhall67 wrote on Apr 20^th, 2012 at 1:51pm:

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Apr 20^th, 2012 at 1:13pm:

Its still stupid. Why go to all that trouble? Why not be civilised and make it non-compulsory?

SOB

It's to do with having responsibilities.

Responsibilities arent meant to be fun or easy.

No. Its not "having responsibilities". Its being forced to do something by a govt. If it were a responsibility it wouldn't be mandatory.

SOB

Just like speed limits .

Just like paying taxes.

Just like providing your kids with an education.

Again , a democracy is not being able to do whatever you want.

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darkhall67

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Re: Compulsory Voting
Reply #38 - Apr 20^th, 2012 at 3:00pm

JasonPK wrote on Apr 20^th, 2012 at 2:47pm:

You really have to be a bit of a fascist if you prefer threats of fines enforceable with violence over peaceful means of encouraging voting.

But I dont.

I just support compulsory voting (compulsory going into the ballot box and writing whatever you want on the slip).

No fines need apply.

No threats of violence.

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corporate_whitey Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 8896 Archivist	Re: Compulsory Voting Reply #39 - Apr 20^th, 2012 at 3:03pm The ill informed need to vote most of all so that the self appointed wise do not silence their voice completely...
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skippy. Gold Member Offline Posts: 20882 Gender:	Re: Compulsory Voting Reply #40 - Apr 20^th, 2012 at 3:04pm I don't have a problem with voting. It's not like we have to do it every week.
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Swagman Gold Member Offline Beware of cheap imitations...... Posts: 15095 Illawarra NSW Gender:	Re: Compulsory Voting Reply #41 - Apr 20^th, 2012 at 3:16pm If they want to make it compulsory they should pay us for our time.... Saturdays would be 1.5X
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BigOl64

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Re: Compulsory Voting
Reply #42 - Apr 20^th, 2012 at 3:18pm

darkhall67 wrote on Apr 20^th, 2012 at 2:54pm:

Ex Dame Pansi wrote on Apr 20^th, 2012 at 2:38pm:

They shouldn't call themselves democratic then.

A list of countries that have compulsory voting. It's a short list. Five countries that enforce their citizens to vote.

Australia
Belgium
Italy-not enforced
Luxembourg
Greece-not enforced
Argentina
Brazil

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voter_turnout

And not a dictatorial totalitarian repressive regime among them.

How about

singapore
zimbawe
libya
honduras
boliva
mexico
egypt

Yeah forcing people to vote in elections is a true sign of a thriving democracy, isn't it?

The UN charter for Human Rights Article 21 thinks that it should be a right, and most first world countries do to.

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corporate_whitey Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 8896 Archivist	Re: Compulsory Voting Reply #43 - Apr 20^th, 2012 at 3:18pm A vote for non compulsory voting is basically a vote for a Carbon Tax and everything else political radicals want to do without fear of restraint or opposition.
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darkhall67

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Re: Compulsory Voting
Reply #44 - Apr 20^th, 2012 at 3:23pm

BigOl64 wrote on Apr 20^th, 2012 at 3:18pm:

darkhall67 wrote on Apr 20^th, 2012 at 2:54pm:

Ex Dame Pansi wrote on Apr 20^th, 2012 at 2:38pm:

They shouldn't call themselves democratic then.

A list of countries that have compulsory voting. It's a short list. Five countries that enforce their citizens to vote.

Australia
Belgium
Italy-not enforced
Luxembourg
Greece-not enforced
Argentina
Brazil

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voter_turnout

And not a dictatorial totalitarian repressive regime among them.

How about

singapore
zimbawe
libya
honduras
boliva
mexico
egypt

Yeah forcing people to vote in elections is a true sign of a thriving democracy, isn't it?

The UN charter for Human Rights Article 21 thinks that it should be a right, and most first world countries do to.

Isnt australia a thriving democracy?

And yet we have compulsory voting.

So there is no causative link between having compulsory voting and being undemocratic or repressive.

The fact that we have compulsory voting, a thriving economy , enormous freedoms and are governed extraordinarily well means that we are obviously doing something right.

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Poll
Question: Should Voting be Compulsory in Australia?
Yes 7 (43.8%) No 9 (56.2%) Total votes: 16 « Created by: Sir Spot of Borg on: Apr 20^th, 2012 at 8:35am »