Australian Politics Forum - Israel and the Palestinians

Adamant

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Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Reply #300 - Jun 17^th, 2012 at 3:32pm

I believe that the Jews should invade all the surrounding muslim countries, killing raping taxing and enslaving the unbelieving kuffers. When they come to pay their tax the Jews must beat spit cut degrade and mark them so we all know who the scum are. The muslim hoard would not be allowed to own land and must stoop and show deference to the Jews or they will loose their heads. The Jews must then expand their rightful presence from Pakistan in the East to Morocco in the West they must slaughter bomb eradicate rape and instill the fear of the one and only TRUE GOD.

Oh sod it the ficking muslim scum have done it already......

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Sir Spot of Borg

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Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Reply #301 - Jun 17^th, 2012 at 3:40pm

gizmo_2655 wrote on Jun 17^th, 2012 at 3:23pm:

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jun 17^th, 2012 at 2:55pm:

gizmo_2655 wrote on Jun 17^th, 2012 at 2:52pm:

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jun 17^th, 2012 at 2:35pm:

freediver wrote on Jun 17^th, 2012 at 12:45pm:

Spot how would you handle Hamas? Don't you think it is naive to expect a viable peace treaty with an organisation whose charter calls for your death?

Obviously - if they are calling for a peace agreement - their charter does not call for "your" death. Talk. Israel could @ least talk. They wont. However its obviously israel doesnt want peace anyway because they wont stop building in west bank and they break ceasefires etc.

Avram: where are the prisoners in the prisons being held without trial from? West bank? Gaza? both?

SOB

Spot, are you even sure that there ARE any prisoners 'held without trial'????

You obviously havent read the thread. There were links and articles back when i first started asking the question. There is also a thread i started about the hunger strikers (you know of them) they are held without trial. Why would you ask such a stupid question anyway?

SOB

To make a point...

All of your information is 2nd hand...and is therefore questionable...

Most media reports on this subject are slanted, one way or the other (although 'mostly' pro-Pally)..

Actually - not all. Avram isnt the only person i have talked to from the area. I have another friend in a chatroom who was radically pro-israel until he went there to take a look @ the situation for himself. He has changed his mind somewhat. Being religious he is still a lil biased but he admits there are some problems that israel is unwilling to address.

I still havent found a palestinian to talk with though.

SOB

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gizmo_2655

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Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Reply #302 - Jun 17^th, 2012 at 3:47pm

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jun 17^th, 2012 at 3:40pm:

gizmo_2655 wrote on Jun 17^th, 2012 at 3:23pm:

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jun 17^th, 2012 at 2:55pm:

gizmo_2655 wrote on Jun 17^th, 2012 at 2:52pm:

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jun 17^th, 2012 at 2:35pm:

freediver wrote on Jun 17^th, 2012 at 12:45pm:

Spot how would you handle Hamas? Don't you think it is naive to expect a viable peace treaty with an organisation whose charter calls for your death?

Obviously - if they are calling for a peace agreement - their charter does not call for "your" death. Talk. Israel could @ least talk. They wont. However its obviously israel doesnt want peace anyway because they wont stop building in west bank and they break ceasefires etc.

Avram: where are the prisoners in the prisons being held without trial from? West bank? Gaza? both?

SOB

Spot, are you even sure that there ARE any prisoners 'held without trial'????

You obviously havent read the thread. There were links and articles back when i first started asking the question. There is also a thread i started about the hunger strikers (you know of them) they are held without trial. Why would you ask such a stupid question anyway?

SOB

To make a point...

All of your information is 2nd hand...and is therefore questionable...

Most media reports on this subject are slanted, one way or the other (although 'mostly' pro-Pally)..

Actually - not all. Avram isnt the only person i have talked to from the area. I have another friend in a chatroom who was radically pro-israel until he went there to take a look @ the situation for himself. He has changed his mind somewhat. Being religious he is still a lil biased but he admits there are some problems that israel is unwilling to address.

I still havent found a palestinian to talk with though.

SOB

Well that's no surprise......every country/culture/government has those...

The point, though, is that both sides are making mistakes, or being too militant....not JUST Israel.

Back to the prisoner thing....I don't know anything about the Israeli legal system, mostly because I haven't bothered to find out, however, there may be police or military courts that do hold trials or tribunals for these prisoners....

I've found that when people say 'without legal representation' what they really mean is...'like I get at home' which ignores the possibility of different laws, in different countries..

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It's similar to a strawman fallacy"
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Sir Spot of Borg

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Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Reply #303 - Jun 17^th, 2012 at 3:59pm

gizmo_2655 wrote on Jun 17^th, 2012 at 3:47pm:

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jun 17^th, 2012 at 3:40pm:

gizmo_2655 wrote on Jun 17^th, 2012 at 3:23pm:

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jun 17^th, 2012 at 2:55pm:

gizmo_2655 wrote on Jun 17^th, 2012 at 2:52pm:

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jun 17^th, 2012 at 2:35pm:

freediver wrote on Jun 17^th, 2012 at 12:45pm:

Spot how would you handle Hamas? Don't you think it is naive to expect a viable peace treaty with an organisation whose charter calls for your death?

Obviously - if they are calling for a peace agreement - their charter does not call for "your" death. Talk. Israel could @ least talk. They wont. However its obviously israel doesnt want peace anyway because they wont stop building in west bank and they break ceasefires etc.

Avram: where are the prisoners in the prisons being held without trial from? West bank? Gaza? both?

SOB

Spot, are you even sure that there ARE any prisoners 'held without trial'????

You obviously havent read the thread. There were links and articles back when i first started asking the question. There is also a thread i started about the hunger strikers (you know of them) they are held without trial. Why would you ask such a stupid question anyway?

SOB

To make a point...

All of your information is 2nd hand...and is therefore questionable...

Most media reports on this subject are slanted, one way or the other (although 'mostly' pro-Pally)..

Actually - not all. Avram isnt the only person i have talked to from the area. I have another friend in a chatroom who was radically pro-israel until he went there to take a look @ the situation for himself. He has changed his mind somewhat. Being religious he is still a lil biased but he admits there are some problems that israel is unwilling to address.

I still havent found a palestinian to talk with though.

SOB

Well that's no surprise......every country/culture/government has those...

The point, though, is that both sides are making mistakes, or being too militant....not JUST Israel.

Back to the prisoner thing....I don't know anything about the Israeli legal system, mostly because I haven't bothered to find out, however, there may be police or military courts that do hold trials or tribunals for these prisoners....

I've found that when people say 'without legal representation' what they really mean is...'like I get at home' which ignores the possibility of different laws, in different countries..

The reason they were on hunger strike was because they wanted actual trials (well that was one of the reasons). I am asking avram about these prisoners because if he served in the military there he should know.

SOB

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Avram Horowitz Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 3153 Australia Gender:	Re: Israel and the Palestinians Reply #304 - Jun 17^th, 2012 at 5:06pm From my knowledge there are not people held without a trial. Gaza is not under control of Israel at all so if people from Gaza is arrested they are charged and try in court. There is no arrests in Gaza as there is no police in Gaza.
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Sir Spot of Borg

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Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Reply #305 - Jun 17^th, 2012 at 5:12pm

Avram Horowitz wrote on Jun 17^th, 2012 at 5:06pm:

From my knowledge there are not people held without a trial.
Gaza is not under control of Israel at all so if people from Gaza is arrested they are charged and try in court.
There is no arrests in Gaza as there is no police in Gaza.

Okay so most are from west bank then. Thanks.

Have a look here though - theres 4000 apparently! I had no idea there were that many!

http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1339915122

SOB

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Yadda

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Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Reply #306 - Jun 17^th, 2012 at 5:28pm

freediver wrote on Jun 17^th, 2012 at 9:30am:

Quote:

the "charter" you are talking about is prolly irrelevant and old

It is not irrelevant to Hamas. It is their charter. Nor is it irrelevant to the Israeli's, because it call's for Israel's destruction. Don't you think it is kind of naive for you to try to sweep something that big under the carpet and hope it will simply go away. Both Abu and Falah share the views expressed in the Hamas charter about Israel's destruction.

If Hamas did actually want peace, and had an outdated charter that forbade them from seeking peace, the first thing they would do is change their charter. Nothing else would make sense.

Can you explain your absurd mental gymnastics and Islamic apologetics?

The more you talk about this, the more you look like a Muslim.

I think most people on OzPol, who have scrutinised SOB's 'arguments', have noticed that.

A clear and unreasoned bias, favouring moslem actions and moslem proclivities.

Clearly SOB demonstrates that she 'thinks', and expresses herself, exactly 'like' a moslem [on the 'Palestinian'/Israeli issue].

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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 50026 At my desk.	Re: Israel and the Palestinians Reply #307 - Jun 17^th, 2012 at 5:54pm I have noticed that about spot and puppet. Both have a clear bias towards Muslims. I haven't asked spot yet, but puppet simply refuses to explain what his political views are - hardly surprising in someone 'defending' Muslims. Spot just seems to have trouble acknowledging the facts if they don't suit his argument.
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Avram Horowitz

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Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Reply #308 - Jun 17^th, 2012 at 5:56pm

Yadda wrote on Jun 17^th, 2012 at 5:28pm:

freediver wrote on Jun 17^th, 2012 at 9:30am:

Quote:

the "charter" you are talking about is prolly irrelevant and old

It is not irrelevant to Hamas. It is their charter. Nor is it irrelevant to the Israeli's, because it call's for Israel's destruction. Don't you think it is kind of naive for you to try to sweep something that big under the carpet and hope it will simply go away. Both Abu and Falah share the views expressed in the Hamas charter about Israel's destruction.

If Hamas did actually want peace, and had an outdated charter that forbade them from seeking peace, the first thing they would do is change their charter. Nothing else would make sense.

Can you explain your absurd mental gymnastics and Islamic apologetics?

The more you talk about this, the more you look like a Muslim.

I think most people on OzPol, who have scrutinised SOB's 'arguments', have noticed that.

A clear and unreasoned bias, favouring moslem actions and moslem proclivities.

Clearly SOB demonstrates that she 'thinks', and expresses herself, exactly 'like' a moslem [on the 'Palestinian'/Israeli issue].

Is spot a woman?
I didn't know this.

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Sir Spot of Borg

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Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Reply #309 - Jun 17^th, 2012 at 6:00pm

Avram Horowitz wrote on Jun 17^th, 2012 at 5:56pm:

Yadda wrote on Jun 17^th, 2012 at 5:28pm:

freediver wrote on Jun 17^th, 2012 at 9:30am:

Quote:

the "charter" you are talking about is prolly irrelevant and old

It is not irrelevant to Hamas. It is their charter. Nor is it irrelevant to the Israeli's, because it call's for Israel's destruction. Don't you think it is kind of naive for you to try to sweep something that big under the carpet and hope it will simply go away. Both Abu and Falah share the views expressed in the Hamas charter about Israel's destruction.

If Hamas did actually want peace, and had an outdated charter that forbade them from seeking peace, the first thing they would do is change their charter. Nothing else would make sense.

Can you explain your absurd mental gymnastics and Islamic apologetics?

The more you talk about this, the more you look like a Muslim.

I think most people on OzPol, who have scrutinised SOB's 'arguments', have noticed that.

A clear and unreasoned bias, favouring moslem actions and moslem proclivities.

Clearly SOB demonstrates that she 'thinks', and expresses herself, exactly 'like' a moslem [on the 'Palestinian'/Israeli issue].

Is spot a woman?
I didn't know this.

No i am a bloke. The DH soren started that poo.

SOB

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I'm a
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Sir Spot of Borg

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Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Reply #310 - Jun 17^th, 2012 at 6:02pm

freediver wrote on Jun 17^th, 2012 at 5:54pm:

I have noticed that about spot and puppet. Both have a clear bias towards Muslims. I haven't asked spot yet, but puppet simply refuses to explain what his political views are - hardly surprising in someone 'defending' Muslims. Spot just seems to have trouble acknowledging the facts if they don't suit his argument.

I am not defending "muslims" i am defending palestinians. The fact that a high percentage of them are muslim isn't the point and doesn't come into it. Israel is treating them badly and needs to be brought into line somehow.

SOB

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I'm a
Moron!

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Avram Horowitz

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Australia
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Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Reply #311 - Jun 17^th, 2012 at 6:05pm

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jun 17^th, 2012 at 6:00pm:

Avram Horowitz wrote on Jun 17^th, 2012 at 5:56pm:

Yadda wrote on Jun 17^th, 2012 at 5:28pm:

freediver wrote on Jun 17^th, 2012 at 9:30am:

Quote:

the "charter" you are talking about is prolly irrelevant and old

It is not irrelevant to Hamas. It is their charter. Nor is it irrelevant to the Israeli's, because it call's for Israel's destruction. Don't you think it is kind of naive for you to try to sweep something that big under the carpet and hope it will simply go away. Both Abu and Falah share the views expressed in the Hamas charter about Israel's destruction.

If Hamas did actually want peace, and had an outdated charter that forbade them from seeking peace, the first thing they would do is change their charter. Nothing else would make sense.

Can you explain your absurd mental gymnastics and Islamic apologetics?

The more you talk about this, the more you look like a Muslim.

I think most people on OzPol, who have scrutinised SOB's 'arguments', have noticed that.

A clear and unreasoned bias, favouring moslem actions and moslem proclivities.

Clearly SOB demonstrates that she 'thinks', and expresses herself, exactly 'like' a moslem [on the 'Palestinian'/Israeli issue].

Is spot a woman?
I didn't know this.

No i am a bloke. The DH soren started that poo.

SOB

"bloke".
Haha I Learned this word in australia.

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Yadda

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Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Reply #312 - Jun 17^th, 2012 at 6:06pm

freediver wrote on Jun 17^th, 2012 at 2:26pm:

Puppet I would not put myself in their position. I would get myself out of their position. Dedicating yourself to the destruction of a neighbouring country that is infinitely stronger than you is just going to bring yourself more grief.

If they were serious about the negotiations, they would abandon their rediculous jihad charter.

Exactly so.

But they can't do that.

ISLAM does not allow that sort of flexibility whenever moslems can see their victory over Allah's enemies [in this case, the Jewish people] being so, so, close to fruition, within their grasp.

They imagine!

Dream about it. Grin

Die for Allah, go to Allah's paradise.

You know, that that is what you really want.
/sarc off

You know that it is all real.
/sarc off

i.e.
ISLAM teaches = = "Go on! Do evil, so that good may come."

Proverbs 15:11
Hell and destruction are before the LORD: how much more then the hearts of the children of men?

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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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Yadda

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Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Reply #313 - Jun 17^th, 2012 at 6:15pm

Adamant wrote on Jun 17^th, 2012 at 3:32pm:

I believe that the Jews should invade all the surrounding muslim countries, killing raping taxing and enslaving the unbelieving kuffers. When they come to pay their tax the Jews must beat spit cut degrade and mark them so we all know who the scum are. The muslim hoard would not be allowed to own land and must stoop and show deference to the Jews or they will loose their heads. The Jews must then expand their rightful presence from Pakistan in the East to Morocco in the West they must slaughter bomb eradicate rape and instill the fear of the one and only TRUE GOD.

Oh sod it the ficking muslim scum have done it already......

LOL adamant.

Nice one.

Turning the tables, on moslems, re 'unbelievers'.

You have been reading the Covenant of Omar.

Recording how moslems may 'respect' dhimmis ['unbelievers' who submit to moslem rule].

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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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Yadda

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Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Reply #314 - Jun 17^th, 2012 at 6:33pm

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jun 17^th, 2012 at 6:00pm:

Avram Horowitz wrote on Jun 17^th, 2012 at 5:56pm:

Is spot a woman?
I didn't know this.

No i am a bloke. The DH soren started that poo.

SOB

Sorry darling, i mean, mate.

To me, you just come across as a woman [i WAS going to say; 'as a dozy bint'. but i restrained myself.]

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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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Poll
Question: What should be done about Israel/Palestinians?
Commit genocide on the Palestinians Give Israel back to the British Stop all support for Israel's atrocities Keep going how we are Let Iran Nuke Israel (and Gaza will go to) Two State Solution « Last Modified by: Sir Spot of Borg on: Jun 12^th, 2012 at 9:37am »