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http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl Member Run Boards >> Extremism Exposed >> Israel and the Palestinians http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1334533098 Message started by Spot of Borg on Apr 16^th, 2012 at 9:38am

Title: Israel and the Palestinians
Post by Spot of Borg on Apr 16^th, 2012 at 9:38am

Comon. Its been going forever. Heres what I have gathered about the "conflict".

The israelis threw the palestinians out of the city in a fit of hitler-like pique and caused them to settle outside the city. Then they tried to take even that land and build on it. Obviously the palestinians dont have the arsenal of israel but they do what they can. Israel responds with overwhelming force that is uncalled for and the world supports them because of some religious book saying they better or else.

That about it?

SOB

Title: Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Post by NorthOfNorth on Apr 16^th, 2012 at 9:52am

What about the "Two State Solution" as an option?

Title: Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Post by Spot of Borg on Apr 16^th, 2012 at 9:56am

Added. I knew I forgot something.

SOB

Title: Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Post by Avram Horowitz on Apr 16^th, 2012 at 10:21am

NorthOfNorth wrote on Apr 16^th, 2012 at 9:52am:

What about the "Two State Solution" as an option?

They dont want it.
It has been offered to them.

Title: Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Post by NorthOfNorth on Apr 16^th, 2012 at 10:25am

Avram Horowitz wrote on Apr 16^th, 2012 at 10:21am:

NorthOfNorth wrote on Apr 16^th, 2012 at 9:52am:

What about the "Two State Solution" as an option?

They dont want it.
It has been offered to them.

I guess both sides need to try harder.

Title: Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Post by Avram Horowitz on Apr 16^th, 2012 at 10:30am

NorthOfNorth wrote on Apr 16^th, 2012 at 10:25am:

Avram Horowitz wrote on Apr 16^th, 2012 at 10:21am:

NorthOfNorth wrote on Apr 16^th, 2012 at 9:52am:

What about the "Two State Solution" as an option?

They dont want it.
It has been offered to them.

I guess both sides need to try harder.

Giving them Gaza and the West Bank - totally for free and not under any military pressure - is not enough?
What is their response to be given back Gaza?
Fire over 3,000 missiles in to South Israel.

Hamas still call for destruction of all Israel.

What more can we do?

Title: Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Post by Spot of Borg on Apr 16^th, 2012 at 10:33am

Totally for free? Where else were they going to go?

SOB

Title: Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Post by PoliticalPuppet on Apr 16^th, 2012 at 10:37am

BorgCatMan,
It’s not even worth talking about with Avram because he has too much bias on the situation.

I would say let Iran nuke them all because nothing is ever going to change unless the Israelis kill all the Palestinians themselves,
but then Iran doesn’t even have a nuke and has stated that it wants the regime to go not the people of Israel.

Title: Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Post by Spot of Borg on Apr 16^th, 2012 at 10:53am

bobbythefap1 wrote on Apr 16^th, 2012 at 10:37am:

Lol. Yeah. We could always give them one. . . .

SOB

Title: Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Post by Avram Horowitz on Apr 16^th, 2012 at 10:54am

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Apr 16^th, 2012 at 10:33am:

Totally for free? Where else were they going to go?

SOB

Who say we had to give it to them?
Jordan did not before 1967, nor did Egypt.

Yet we do. We could keep it and have them live under Israeli rule.

But no we give to them. How do they reply?
Fire rockets into our country.

Title: Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Post by Spot of Borg on Apr 16^th, 2012 at 10:56am

Avram Horowitz wrote on Apr 16^th, 2012 at 10:54am:

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Apr 16^th, 2012 at 10:33am:

Totally for free? Where else were they going to go?

SOB

You kicked them out in the cold.

SOB

Title: Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Post by Avram Horowitz on Apr 16^th, 2012 at 11:01am

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Apr 16^th, 2012 at 10:56am:

Avram Horowitz wrote on Apr 16^th, 2012 at 10:54am:

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Apr 16^th, 2012 at 10:33am:

Totally for free? Where else were they going to go?

SOB

You kicked them out in the cold.

SOB

Gaza - before 1967 was control by Egypt.
West Bank - before 167 was control by Jordan.

We give them their own country for first time.

We did not have to.

Title: Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Post by Spot of Borg on Apr 16^th, 2012 at 11:07am

Avram Horowitz wrote on Apr 16^th, 2012 at 11:01am:

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Apr 16^th, 2012 at 10:56am:

Avram Horowitz wrote on Apr 16^th, 2012 at 10:54am:

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Apr 16^th, 2012 at 10:33am:

Totally for free? Where else were they going to go?

SOB

You kicked them out in the cold.

SOB

Gaza - before 1967 was control by Egypt.
West Bank - before 167 was control by Jordan.

We give them their own country for first time.

We did not have to.

No. You are right. You could have left them where they were. Wouldnt that have been better?

SOB

Title: Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Post by Avram Horowitz on Apr 16^th, 2012 at 11:19am

They are there.

West Bank and Gaza.

Title: Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Post by Tsfen on Apr 16^th, 2012 at 9:21pm

1. 2/3 of the original 'Palestine' (i.e. after the British left) is now modern day Jordan, look at the trans Jordan part of Palestine on a map of 1947 borders.
2. 'Palestinians' are effectively Jordanian seperatist anti-monarchists who unsuccessfully tried to assassinate the Jordanian king and were expelled as a result.
3. They settled west bank+gaza as a result of their expulsion.
4. After the 67' war Israel decided to offer Jordanians living in those territories passports to stay in Israel, offer them hospitals, roads, education etc. in order to integrate them into Israeli society. The reason for this is because that generation remembered the holocaust and understood what it means to expel people (which is precisely what the Jordanians did). They did not plan for letting Palestinians live in peace to not be enough (as it would have been for jews in Nazi Germany).
5. The 'Palestinians' (i.e. anti-monarchist Jordanians) are demanding land from Israel. Funnily enough, 2/3 of PALESTINE was Jordanian.

I find it amazing how the Palestinians are not demanding land from Jordan.

The correct response from Israel (and unfortunately it is not one of the options in the poll) is to send in the tanks, take the land back, create a bunch of refugees and propose a two state solution with Jordan contributing 2/3 of the new state from its own territory. Either that or tell the Jordanian anti-monarchists to go back to Jordan...

This is of course not practicable because all the humanists (along with the UN) will jump up and down. So instead we keep the status quo. Israel's hands are tied by the US and the media.

The Palestinians are not a nation or a people. They have little if any connection to the west bank or gaza. They should not have a flag or a state (in any capacity). And just an interesting observation, look at the Palestinian flag and compare to the Jordanian flag...copy much?

Arabs support them because of the philosophy 'the enemy of my enemy is my friend'. Nobody likes Israel in that region. So anyone who makes trouble for them is welcome.

Pity that there are so many people out there who think 'Palestinians' are entitled to a state made of entirely Israeli land.

And before you start to tell me that Israel unjustly acquired the land, keep in mind that ALL land was acquired unjustly (but this is a completely separate issue).

Title: Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Post by MOTR on Apr 16^th, 2012 at 9:28pm

Avram Horowitz wrote on Apr 16^th, 2012 at 10:21am:

NorthOfNorth wrote on Apr 16^th, 2012 at 9:52am:

What about the "Two State Solution" as an option?

They dont want it.
It has been offered to them.

Have you ever seen a map of what was offered, Avram?

Title: Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Post by Spot of Borg on Apr 17^th, 2012 at 11:17am

bump

Title: Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Post by Avram Horowitz on Apr 17^th, 2012 at 6:36pm

MOTR wrote on Apr 16^th, 2012 at 9:28pm:

Avram Horowitz wrote on Apr 16^th, 2012 at 10:21am:

NorthOfNorth wrote on Apr 16^th, 2012 at 9:52am:

What about the "Two State Solution" as an option?

They dont want it.
It has been offered to them.

Have you ever seen a map of what was offered, Avram?

yes

Title: Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Post by falah on Apr 18^th, 2012 at 4:39am

Avram Horowitz wrote on Apr 16^th, 2012 at 10:21am:

NorthOfNorth wrote on Apr 16^th, 2012 at 9:52am:

What about the "Two State Solution" as an option?

They dont want it.
It has been offered to them.

Title: Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Post by Spot of Borg on Apr 18^th, 2012 at 8:27am

And yet america still supports them. What is australias stance? I suppose we go along with the americans since they are our overlords.

SOB

Title: Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Post by falah on Apr 18^th, 2012 at 11:11am

Israel on verge of ~~disaster~~ (a very bad prognosis): Ex-Mossad chief Meir Dagan

Former Mossad chief Meir Dagan says Israel is on the brink of “disaster” and that the Tel Aviv regime faces a “very bad” forecast of its future.

“We are on the edge of -- I would not say a disaster because that is a bit exaggerated -- but we are facing a very bad prognosis of what will happen in the future,” Dagan said in a recent interview with the Jerusalem Post.

The former Mossad chief also censured the regime of Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu.

Dagan said the Israeli “system is reaching a point where” the regime is “incapable of running” Israel.

Dagan has formed an organization that supports changing the Israeli system.

The former Mossad chief is also considered a controversial character by the Tel Aviv regime as he has described an attack on Iran as the “dumbest idea.”

In November 2010, Dagan was replaced by Tamir Pardo as the new Mossad chief.

http://www.presstv.com/detail/236717.html

Title: Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Post by Spot of Borg on Apr 18^th, 2012 at 11:51am

Dont you just love the sensationalism in the media? He said he wouldn't say it was a "disaster" and the headline says DISASTER! hahahahha

SOB

Title: Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Post by MOTR on Apr 18^th, 2012 at 12:10pm

Avram Horowitz wrote on Apr 17^th, 2012 at 6:36pm:

MOTR wrote on Apr 16^th, 2012 at 9:28pm:

Avram Horowitz wrote on Apr 16^th, 2012 at 10:21am:

NorthOfNorth wrote on Apr 16^th, 2012 at 9:52am:

What about the "Two State Solution" as an option?

They dont want it.
It has been offered to them.

Have you ever seen a map of what was offered, Avram?

yes

So you know it was a superficial offer that never had a chance of being accepted.

Title: Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Post by Avram Horowitz on Apr 18^th, 2012 at 1:33pm

MOTR wrote on Apr 18^th, 2012 at 12:10pm:

Avram Horowitz wrote on Apr 17^th, 2012 at 6:36pm:

MOTR wrote on Apr 16^th, 2012 at 9:28pm:

Avram Horowitz wrote on Apr 16^th, 2012 at 10:21am:

NorthOfNorth wrote on Apr 16^th, 2012 at 9:52am:

What about the "Two State Solution" as an option?

They dont want it.
It has been offered to them.

Have you ever seen a map of what was offered, Avram?

yes

So you know it was a superficial offer that never had a chance of being accepted.

It could be accepted.
Remember the West Bank and Gaza is captured by us after the war - we do not have to give any land back if we do not want.

Nobody is forcing us to do this.
We can keep all the land and ignore the UN Resolutions if we wish because the recent comments on the illegal of the land has showed to be false and the UN does not sanction action as it is vetoed by Security Council.

It is up to they to accept what we offer.

Title: Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Post by Avram Horowitz on Apr 18^th, 2012 at 3:44pm

If they want more land then let them come and take it.

They are not so brave any more are they?

Do they want more fire, more F16's, more lessons from we Jews?

No. So they accept it or no. We do not care.

Title: Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Post by Spot of Borg on Apr 19^th, 2012 at 1:14pm

Avram Horowitz wrote on Apr 18^th, 2012 at 3:44pm:

Obviously they havent the weaponry to fight you full on. They do what they can against a bully.

SOB

Title: Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Post by Avram Horowitz on Apr 19^th, 2012 at 1:18pm

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Apr 19^th, 2012 at 1:14pm:

Avram Horowitz wrote on Apr 18^th, 2012 at 3:44pm:

Obviously they havent the weaponry to fight you full on. They do what they can against a bully.

SOB

Blow up children?

Title: Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Post by Spot of Borg on Apr 19^th, 2012 at 1:21pm

Avram Horowitz wrote on Apr 19^th, 2012 at 1:18pm:

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Apr 19^th, 2012 at 1:14pm:

Avram Horowitz wrote on Apr 18^th, 2012 at 3:44pm:

Obviously they havent the weaponry to fight you full on. They do what they can against a bully.

SOB

Blow up children?

Israelis dont blow up children? Palestinians do?

SOB

Title: Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Post by Avram Horowitz on Apr 19^th, 2012 at 7:30pm

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Apr 19^th, 2012 at 1:21pm:

Avram Horowitz wrote on Apr 19^th, 2012 at 1:18pm:

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Apr 19^th, 2012 at 1:14pm:

Avram Horowitz wrote on Apr 18^th, 2012 at 3:44pm:

Obviously they havent the weaponry to fight you full on. They do what they can against a bully.

SOB

Blow up children?

Israelis dont blow up children? Palestinians do?

SOB

Hamas took responsibility for deliberately walking on to a bus of civilians and blowing it up.
Pregnant women, children aged 9 months, 3 years old, 12 years old - all purposely killed by Hamas.

You wonder why we fight them hard back in the IDF.

Because they are terror backers and child killers and we will kill them for it.

Title: Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Post by falah on Apr 19^th, 2012 at 8:01pm

Avram Horowitz wrote on Apr 19^th, 2012 at 7:30pm:

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Apr 19^th, 2012 at 1:21pm:

Avram Horowitz wrote on Apr 19^th, 2012 at 1:18pm:

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Apr 19^th, 2012 at 1:14pm:

Avram Horowitz wrote on Apr 18^th, 2012 at 3:44pm:

Obviously they havent the weaponry to fight you full on. They do what they can against a bully.

SOB

Blow up children?

Israelis dont blow up children? Palestinians do?

SOB

Israel took responsibility for deliberately bombing Gaza nd kiling 300 children.

UNICEF: 300 Children Killed in Gaza

The head of the United Nations children's agency says 300 children have been killed during Israel's campaign in the Gaza Strip.

UNICEF director, Ann Venemen, says more than 1,500 other children have been wounded, casualties she calls "tragic" and "unacceptable."

Separately, Palestinian medics say more than 1,000 people have been killed during the 19-day offensive.

Israel has tightly controlled access to the Palestinian territory, so the numbers cannot be independently verified.

http://www.voanews.com/english/news/a-13-2009-01-14-voa28-68626237.html

Palestinian children murdered by Zionist Israeli Jews.

Because Israel is a terrorist state, every decent human being should oppose it.

Title: Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Post by Avram Horowitz on Apr 19^th, 2012 at 8:14pm

I was in Operation Cast Lead.

Title: Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Post by falah on Apr 19^th, 2012 at 8:37pm

Avram Horowitz wrote on Apr 19^th, 2012 at 8:14pm:

I was in Operation Cast Lead.

So you admit to being a murdering terrorist then?

You should be arrested for your involvement in war crimes.

Title: Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Post by Soren on Apr 19^th, 2012 at 9:31pm

falah wrote on Apr 19^th, 2012 at 8:37pm:

Avram Horowitz wrote on Apr 19^th, 2012 at 8:14pm:

I was in Operation Cast Lead.

So you admit to being a murdering terrorist then?

You should be arrested for your involvement in war crimes.

None of it would have happened if Hamas hadn't fired hundreds of crude rockets into Israel.
Everyone know that, even you.
But for you bearded monsters the story always only begins with Israel hitting back, and focuses on the hysteria it causes in the Muslim mind: Jews fighting back. You bvggers haven't had that for 1400 years and now it makes you completely crazy with indignation. You used to have a free hand over your dhimmis, but no longer. You can't process that.

Title: Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Post by Avram Horowitz on Apr 19^th, 2012 at 9:32pm

falah wrote on Apr 19^th, 2012 at 8:37pm:

Avram Horowitz wrote on Apr 19^th, 2012 at 8:14pm:

I was in Operation Cast Lead.

So you admit to being a murdering terrorist then?

You should be arrested for your involvement in war crimes.

There is no war crime.
I was part of infantry units which go in to Gaza to stop the missile fire.

We did not have much resistance as we had forward F-16 air support for days before this.

So if there is war crimes? Tell me? How much success did the resoution has in the UN?

Title: Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Post by falah on Apr 19^th, 2012 at 9:48pm

Avram Horowitz wrote on Apr 19^th, 2012 at 9:32pm:

falah wrote on Apr 19^th, 2012 at 8:37pm:

Avram Horowitz wrote on Apr 19^th, 2012 at 8:14pm:

I was in Operation Cast Lead.

So you admit to being a murdering terrorist then?

You should be arrested for your involvement in war crimes.

Of course terrorists believe that killing women and children is all kosher.

300 children and 76 women killed by Israeli terrorist war criminals in Gaza in 2009.

Palestinian brothers: Israel used us as human shields in Gaza war

Three teenage boys say they were made to kneel in front of tanks to deter Hamas attacks

Israel has been accused of using Palestinian human shields during its invasion of Gaza, a breach of the Geneva conventions that prohibit intentionally putting civilian lives at risk.The Guardian has interviewed three Gazan brothers who described how they were taken from their home at gunpoint, made to kneel in front of tanks to deter Hamas fighters from firing and sent by Israeli soldiers into Palestinian houses to clear them.

"They would make us go first, so if any fighters shot at them the bullets would hit us, not them," said 14-year-old Al'a al-Attar.

His brothers, Ali, 15, and Nafiz, 16, described how when the three of them were being led through built-up areas in their home town of Attartra, the soldiers would order them to suddenly stop ‑ then fire their rifles over the brothers' shoulders and between their legs.

The use of "human shields" is prohibited under article 28 of the fourth Geneva convention, which states: "The presence of a protected person may not be used to render certain points or areas immune from military operations." Israel has ratified the convention and is therefore bound by it.

An Israeli internal army magazine left behind by the troops shows Nafiz at the beginning of his ordeal being led bound and blindfolded in a line of men before he was stripped of his clothes.

Another article in the magazine's online edition details a separate incident, titled: "For a week and a half they [Israeli soldiers]lived with a family of Palestinians whose home became their stronghold." In it an officer talks openly of using the house as a base for operations while keeping the family in a downstairs room.

"At the top floor of the house we have established an improvised operational room and soldiers' bedroom, we have opened firing positions and observation points in the three additional rooms," the officer was quoted as saying. "In addition, we have established another guarding position on the entrance door of the family home."

Though the officer claims the family stayed in the house out of choice, using their house as a base while civilians were on the premises could still be a violation of international law.

The Attar brothers' ordeal began on 5 January when Israeli troops entered the town of Attartra, 1.2 miles (2km) from the border with Israel, and began firing into their house. They were led away blindfolded and at gunpoint in single file as the gunfire carried on around them. At one point the boys were forced to march in front of and alongside Israeli tanks.

They were then forced to kneel in a makeshift Israeli encampment for three days and three nights as tanks fired off shells around them. Human rights groups believe they were held there to deter Palestinian fighters from attacking.

"After being here for a day and a half, they put barbed wire around us, then empty tank shells kept landing on us, a rock or shrapnel came flying toward us. We spent a further three days here, right here," said Nafiz.

After five days Ali and Al'a were untied, had their blindfolds removed and were released straight into a firefight. They came under attack from Israeli tanks and helicopters as they tried to find their way home through the ruins of their neighbourhood, the boys said.

Nafiz was not so lucky. He was taken to Israel where he was interrogated for three days and says he was beaten. Finally he was taken back into Gaza and released.

The boys' parents, who are ardent supporters of Fatah ‑ Hamas' political rivals ‑ cannot understand why they were taken.

The use of human shields was outlawed by Israel's supreme court in 2005 following several clearly identified incidents, but human rights groups insist the Israeli military continues to use civilians in this way, albeit less often.

In February 2007, Associated Press Television News released footage showing 24-year-old Palestinian Sameh Amira being used as a human shield by a group of Israeli soldiers in Nablus.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/mar/23/gaza-human-shields-claim

Title: Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Post by Avram Horowitz on Apr 19^th, 2012 at 9:51pm

How much success did the UN Resolution receive at the United Nations?

:)

(Reuters) - Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert said a telephone call he made to U.S. President George W. Bush last week forced Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice to abstain in a U.N. vote on the Gaza war, leaving her "shamed."

Pouring on political bravado in a speech late Monday, Olmert said he demanded to talk to Bush with only 10 minutes to spare before a U.N. Security Council vote Thursday on a resolution opposed by Israel calling for an immediate ceasefire.

"When we saw that the secretary of state, for reasons we did not really understand, wanted to vote in favor of the U.N. resolution ... I looked for President Bush and they told me he was in Philadelphia making a speech," Olmert said.

"I said, 'I don't care. I have to talk to him now,'" Olmert said, describing Bush, who leaves office on January 20, as "an unparalleled friend" of Israel.

"They got him off the podium, brought him to another room and I spoke to him. I told him, 'You can't vote in favor of this resolution.' He said, 'Listen, I don't know about it, I didn't see it, I'm not familiar with the phrasing.'"

Olmert said he then told Bush: "'I'm familiar with it. You can't vote in favor.'

"He gave an order to the secretary of state and she did not vote in favor of it -- a resolution she cooked up, phrased, organized and maneuvered for. She was left pretty shamed and abstained on a resolution she arranged," Olmert said.

Fourteen of the Security Council's 15 members supported the resolution, which has failed to halt Israel's offensive in the Gaza Strip and Hamas's cross-border rocket fire.

Title: Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Post by Avram Horowitz on Apr 20^th, 2012 at 9:29am

When some one fires a rocket from an apartment block with women and children - they know as soon as it is fired it is picked up by IDF control and F-16's are sent to respond.

Who is to blame?

The terrorist who deliberately places in line of women and children and press fire?
Or the IAF who responds to remove the rocket launch site?

Title: Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Post by Spot of Borg on Apr 20^th, 2012 at 9:30am

This thing is ridiculous. Why does any other country support israel in this endeavour? Now its gone on so long that the refugees (sorry the palestinians) are going to remain angry for a long long time after its resolved if its ever resolved. Theres generations involved here now.

I used to say "both sides have their grievances" and "they should work it out themselves" but now I realise its entirely Israels fault and they should just leave the Palestinians the heck alone.

SOB

Title: Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Post by Soren on Apr 20^th, 2012 at 9:40am

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Apr 20^th, 2012 at 9:30am:

This thing is ridiculous. Why does any other country support israel in this endeavour?

Why shouldn't the countries that recognise Israel as a legitimate member of the UN also support it in its endeavour of self-defence - because that's all what the arab-israeli conflict is.

If the Arabs recognised Israel and accepted its right to peaceful existence with its borders, like the rest of the world, there would be no Arab Israeli conflict.

Title: Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Post by Avram Horowitz on Apr 20^th, 2012 at 10:07am

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Apr 20^th, 2012 at 9:30am:

Thisbut now I realise its entirely Israels fault and they should just leave the Palestinians the heck alone.

SOB

Silly stupid comment.

Title: Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Post by Spot of Borg on Apr 22^nd, 2012 at 11:07am

Soren wrote on Apr 20^th, 2012 at 9:40am:

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Apr 20^th, 2012 at 9:30am:

This thing is ridiculous. Why does any other country support israel in this endeavour?

Because its not self-defense.

SOB

Title: Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Post by Spot of Borg on Apr 22^nd, 2012 at 11:08am

Avram Horowitz wrote on Apr 20^th, 2012 at 10:07am:

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Apr 20^th, 2012 at 9:30am:

Thisbut now I realise its entirely Israels fault and they should just leave the Palestinians the heck alone.

SOB

Silly stupid comment.

Wow. Your argument is brilliant. You have convinced me.

SOB

Title: Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Post by Soren on Apr 22^nd, 2012 at 11:09am

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Apr 22^nd, 2012 at 11:07am:

Soren wrote on Apr 20^th, 2012 at 9:40am:

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Apr 20^th, 2012 at 9:30am:

This thing is ridiculous. Why does any other country support israel in this endeavour?

Because its not self-defense.

SOB

What is it then?

Title: Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Post by PoliticalPuppet on Apr 22^nd, 2012 at 11:10am

Soren wrote on Apr 20^th, 2012 at 9:40am:

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Apr 20^th, 2012 at 9:30am:

This thing is ridiculous. Why does any other country support israel in this endeavour?

Because we are trying to live in a civilized world and when you steal something from someone it is not self defence when they try and take it back and or defend their property and sovereignty, its assault. Or in this situation, war crimes and crimes against humanity.

Title: Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Post by falah on Apr 22^nd, 2012 at 2:09pm

Avram Horowitz wrote on Apr 20^th, 2012 at 9:29am:

So your logic is "It is OK to kill women and children, if someone from the other side tries to do it first"

On that basis, the Palestinians would be entitled to lob missiles into Israel every time Israel attacks them.

If Israeli civilians get killed it would be the IDF's fault for attacking palestinians in the first place? Correct?

Title: Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Post by Soren on Apr 22^nd, 2012 at 2:49pm

bobbythefap1 wrote on Apr 22^nd, 2012 at 11:10am:

Soren wrote on Apr 20^th, 2012 at 9:40am:

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Apr 20^th, 2012 at 9:30am:

This thing is ridiculous. Why does any other country support israel in this endeavour?

The British gave the place to the Jews. It was for the British to give or not. Remember, it was under British control between the end of the Ottoman Empire and the declartion of Israel.
The non-Muslim countries of the world recognised Israel (ie the countries for whom the existence of a Jewish state is not a repudition of their deepst beliefs) and aceptd it as a member of the UN. Attacks on a UN member state are againt all international convention. So when israel hoots bck, it is in self defence by a recognised, sovereign member state of the UN.
Hamas and Fatah are not sovereign states, they are gangsters without a country. They are shooting at Israel because building a functioning country for thmselves is a much, much harder task. Shooting rockets from schools and mosques is a lot easier for them than to set up a functioning society, the millions of dollars in European aid notwithstanding.

The Muslim Arabs can't make a functioning society even when the DO have a country.

Title: Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Post by Annie Anthrax on Apr 22^nd, 2012 at 2:54pm

Quote:

Hamas and Fatah are not sovereign states, they are gangsters without a country. They are shooting at Israel because building a functioning country for thmselves is a much, much harder task.

How would you suggest they 'build' a country?

Title: Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Post by Soren on Apr 22^nd, 2012 at 2:56pm

falah wrote on Apr 22^nd, 2012 at 2:09pm:

Avram Horowitz wrote on Apr 20^th, 2012 at 9:29am:

Israeli soldiers are not hinding among civilians. They wear an identifiable uniform and move in military formation.
The Palestinians wear civilian clothes, move among the civilian population, fire from behind women and children, from civilian buildings.

Why don't these heroic Muslims make themsleves a uniform, get their kalashnikovs and fight the IDF like soldiers? Because they would have no chance. So they are using guerilla tactics. Which means that THEY consider the non-combatant Palestinian causalties aceptable. If thyese cowards came out into the open, they would be al killed and nobody would cry for them. So, insead, they hide behind their own women and children and use their deaths and injuries for propaganda.

Title: Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Post by Soren on Apr 22^nd, 2012 at 2:58pm

Annie Anthrax wrote on Apr 22^nd, 2012 at 2:54pm:

Quote:

Hamas and Fatah are not sovereign states, they are gangsters without a country. They are shooting at Israel because building a functioning country for thmselves is a much, much harder task.

How would you suggest they 'build' a country?

Er... by .... (ahem).... working....??

Title: Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Post by Annie Anthrax on Apr 22^nd, 2012 at 3:02pm

It was a serious question. Trust you to be your usual dickish self.

Title: Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Post by Soren on Apr 22^nd, 2012 at 3:09pm

Annie Anthrax wrote on Apr 22^nd, 2012 at 3:02pm:

It was a serious question. Trust you to be your usual dickish self.

I somehow knew you'd think 'working Palestinians' is an islamophobic idea.

Working together is the only way of making a functioning society. So if it's off the menu for the Pallos - what's left???

Title: Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Post by falah on Apr 22^nd, 2012 at 4:17pm

Soren wrote on Apr 22^nd, 2012 at 2:56pm:

falah wrote on Apr 22^nd, 2012 at 2:09pm:

Avram Horowitz wrote on Apr 20^th, 2012 at 9:29am:

It is a bit like saying why were the Jews hiding in ghettoes behind women and children? Why didn't they come out and fight the Nazis in the open?

If they had any weapons they might just do that.

Nazis wore uniforms. Soviets wore uniforms. Didn't make them very good though.

I bet you hate Robin hood too Soren. he used to travel around in disguise fighting the evil uniform-wearing heavily-armed oppressive government.

Title: Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Post by Spot of Borg on Apr 22^nd, 2012 at 6:35pm

I hate to say this but israel and the jews in israel remind me of the nazis and hitlers regime. They cry out about "holocaust" all the time to justify doing exactly the same thing. How many palestinians in the jails in israel? hmmm?

And dont go invoking that godwins law thing on me either this is a VALID reference.

SOB

Title: Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Post by PoliticalPuppet on Apr 22^nd, 2012 at 6:36pm

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Apr 22^nd, 2012 at 6:35pm:

They are worse, at least hitler admitted what he was doing.
And hitler used humane methods of genocide

Title: Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Post by Avram Horowitz on Apr 22^nd, 2012 at 6:38pm

You need to be banned again for your anti semetism.

Title: Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Post by PoliticalPuppet on Apr 22^nd, 2012 at 6:44pm

Avram Horowitz wrote on Apr 22^nd, 2012 at 6:38pm:

You need to be banned again for your anti semetism.

Remember the definition of semitic?
Please debunk what I said rather then throw around labels and slurs

Title: Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Post by Avram Horowitz on Apr 22^nd, 2012 at 6:46pm

bobbythefap1 wrote on Apr 22^nd, 2012 at 6:44pm:

Avram Horowitz wrote on Apr 22^nd, 2012 at 6:38pm:

You need to be banned again for your anti semetism.

Remember the definition of semitic?
Please debunk what I said rather then throw around labels and slurs

Read what anti semetic means.

Hatred of Jews.

Title: Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Post by Spot of Borg on Apr 22^nd, 2012 at 6:51pm

Avram Horowitz wrote on Apr 22^nd, 2012 at 6:46pm:

bobbythefap1 wrote on Apr 22^nd, 2012 at 6:44pm:

Avram Horowitz wrote on Apr 22^nd, 2012 at 6:38pm:

You need to be banned again for your anti semetism.

Remember the definition of semitic?
Please debunk what I said rather then throw around labels and slurs

Read what anti semetic means.

Hatred of Jews.

I dont think anyone here hates jews. Well maybe that muslim fellow but who can blame him? We just hate what you are doing and think you should stop and stop being so hypocritical. If you dont stop the world *should* punish you in some way to stop you. Not you personally but you the "jews".

SOB

Title: Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Post by Soren on Apr 22^nd, 2012 at 7:36pm

falah wrote on Apr 22^nd, 2012 at 4:17pm:

I bet you hate Robin hood too Soren. he used to travel around in disguise fighting the evil uniform-wearing heavily-armed oppressive government.

;D ;D ;D

What an infantile cretin you are. I am now a Robin Hood-o-phobe??? :D

Everybody - ululate!!!! Insh'allah!! Rightly guided!! Arab Golden Age of learning!! Invented everything!
YAY!!!

Title: Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Post by PoliticalPuppet on Apr 22^nd, 2012 at 7:37pm

Avram Horowitz wrote on Apr 22^nd, 2012 at 6:46pm:

bobbythefap1 wrote on Apr 22^nd, 2012 at 6:44pm:

Avram Horowitz wrote on Apr 22^nd, 2012 at 6:38pm:

You need to be banned again for your anti semetism.

Remember the definition of semitic?
Please debunk what I said rather then throw around labels and slurs

Read what anti semetic means.

Hatred of Jews.

This is incorrect

Title: Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Post by Spot of Borg on Apr 23^rd, 2012 at 9:31am

Avram Horowitz wrote on Apr 22^nd, 2012 at 6:38pm:

You need to be banned again for your anti semetism.

You call for censorship of ppl that disagree with you?

SOB

Title: Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Post by Spot of Borg on May 11^th, 2012 at 8:34am

I knew this was all about religion. It just didnt really click. The israelis are bulldozing families because "god" supposedly gave them that land? Do they really think "god" approves of this practice? It is not their land! Some fictional book says it is so they kill ppl and oppress ppl and use it as an excuse for atrocities. Israel never should have been put there in the first place but it certainly shouldn't be trying to expand its borders because of a fairy king. Its absolutely rediculus.

SOB

Title: Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Post by Avram Horowitz on May 11^th, 2012 at 11:44am

Horse sh*t

Title: Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Post by Spot of Borg on May 11^th, 2012 at 12:06pm

Avram Horowitz wrote on May 11^th, 2012 at 11:44am:

Horse sh*t

Okay then. Why do they bulldoze houses and try to build on land that isnt theirs?

SOB

Title: Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Post by Avram Horowitz on May 11^th, 2012 at 6:50pm

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on May 11^th, 2012 at 12:06pm:

Avram Horowitz wrote on May 11^th, 2012 at 11:44am:

Horse sh*t

Okay then. Why do they bulldoze houses and try to build on land that isnt theirs?

SOB

The situations are all different.
The bulldozers can not act without order from the court.

Title: Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Post by Spot of Borg on May 11^th, 2012 at 7:11pm

Avram Horowitz wrote on May 11^th, 2012 at 6:50pm:

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on May 11^th, 2012 at 12:06pm:

Avram Horowitz wrote on May 11^th, 2012 at 11:44am:

Horse sh*t

Okay then. Why do they bulldoze houses and try to build on land that isnt theirs?

SOB

The situations are all different.
The bulldozers can not act without order from the court.

What situations? With or without an order from the court why do houses get bulldozed and families displaced or killed? And why build on land that isnt theirs?

SOB

Title: Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Post by Spot of Borg on May 13^th, 2012 at 9:14am

bump

Title: Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Post by Spot of Borg on May 15^th, 2012 at 8:55am

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on May 11^th, 2012 at 7:11pm:

Avram Horowitz wrote on May 11^th, 2012 at 6:50pm:

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on May 11^th, 2012 at 12:06pm:

Avram Horowitz wrote on May 11^th, 2012 at 11:44am:

Horse sh*t

Okay then. Why do they bulldoze houses and try to build on land that isnt theirs?

SOB

The situations are all different.
The bulldozers can not act without order from the court.

What situations? With or without an order from the court why do houses get bulldozed and families displaced or killed? And why build on land that isnt theirs?

SOB

What are these "orders from the court" with which they bulldoze houses? How do you get an order from the court to do something illegal?

SOB

Title: Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Post by Spot of Borg on May 17^th, 2012 at 8:21am

When are you going to answer?

SOB

Title: Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Post by Soren on May 19^th, 2012 at 6:04pm

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on May 11^th, 2012 at 8:34am:

They are not bulldozing them because god told them, you silly woman. They bulldoze them because of a court order in each case.

Title: Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Post by Spot of Borg on May 19^th, 2012 at 6:11pm

Soren wrote on May 19^th, 2012 at 6:04pm:

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on May 11^th, 2012 at 8:34am:

They are not bulldozing them because god told them, you silly woman. They bulldoze them because of a court order in each case.

And how do they get a court order to bulldoze someones family home you stupid woman?

SOB

Title: Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Post by Avram Horowitz on May 19^th, 2012 at 8:16pm

The court order is obtained by the state and allows for removal of premises which may need to be removed for security or other reasons.

Title: Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Post by Spot of Borg on May 20^th, 2012 at 9:15am

Avram Horowitz wrote on May 19^th, 2012 at 8:16pm:

The court order is obtained by the state and allows for removal of premises which may need to be removed for security or other reasons.

The state of israel you mean? They give a court order to bulldoze homes that are occupied and are not on your land? What "other reasons"?

SOB

Title: Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Post by Avram Horowitz on May 20^th, 2012 at 9:37am

The land where court orders are given for removal of houses or other propertys is under the jurisidiction of the state of Israel.

The West Bank territory is technically under Israeli military control and is subject to emergency court powers to allow this.

The reasons can be many.

If the house is inside what we say in IDF a security circle -which is the circle surround a Jewish settlement where we decide only Jewish ID holders can enter- then the house must be moved.

The court makes sure that correct notice period is given to occupiers of the house and the correct reason of why - they also can appeal and hear the case be held in Jerusalem.

Other reasons is pure security. For example inside of Gaza when we do Cast Lead there is a property where there is consistent gunfire to us from this point. I was part of unit which when we have overrun this position asks for bulldozer to come in and remove this house to stop future problems.
This also needs approval from military command to do this. This override court because it is situation of emergency.

It can depend.

Bulldozers do not just come and take away what home they like on that day you know.
The media dont tell you this.

Title: Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Post by Avram Horowitz on May 20^th, 2012 at 3:04pm

I hope this makes clear and answers your question!

Title: Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Post by Spot of Borg on May 20^th, 2012 at 3:37pm

Avram Horowitz wrote on May 20^th, 2012 at 9:37am:

I wasnt asking about homes in the jurisdiction of israel. I was asking about the homes that there are palestinian families living in gaza or west bank.

What would be an "emergency home demolition"?

If the house is inside what we say in IDF a security circle -which is the circle surround a Jewish settlement where we decide only Jewish ID holders can enter- then the house must be moved.

Where we decide. Where we decide. Where we decide. On what authority? Your own? Gods? Santa Clauses? Certainly not on the authority of the families in the dwellings. And yeah so they are allowed to appeal but are they even allowed into jerusalem to talk about it? Or is it more likely they would be shot on trying to approach the city?

The media dont tell me much that is true. I have to really dig around to find information.

Do you realise avram why the palestinians are angry with you? Do you even get it or is it all "self defense holocaust blahblah"? Or is it because of religion and god said you could have that land but you dont have it cause they are on it?

SOB

Title: Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Post by Yadda on May 20^th, 2012 at 4:15pm

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on May 20^th, 2012 at 3:37pm:

Do you realise avram why the palestinians are angry with you? Do you even get it or is it all "self defense holocaust blahblah"? Or is it because of religion and god said you could have that land but you dont have it cause they are on it?

SOB

Israel are not 'oppressing', or in conflict against 'Palestinians'.

Moslems and ISLAM, are fighting Israel, ....so as to destroy Israel.

The nation of Israel is being assailed BY MOSLEMS, because Israel, and because the Jewish people, are not moslems.

Period.

There is no room for the Jewish people, in the middle east - ACCORDING TO MOSLEMS.

+++

One day, this conflict [between moslems and the Jewish people] will come to a dramatic conclusion.

Foolishness will be rewarded.

Psalms 28:4
Give them according to their deeds, and according to the wickedness of their endeavours: give them after the work of their hands; render to them their desert.

Psalms 83:4
They have said, Come, and let us cut them off from being a nation; that the name of Israel may be no more in remembrance.

Title: Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Post by Spot of Borg on May 22^nd, 2012 at 12:17pm

Quote:

If that is the case then why go onto their land and bulldoze their homes?

SOB

Title: Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Post by Spot of Borg on May 24^th, 2012 at 12:37pm

What do you think of the 2 state solution avram?

SOB

Title: Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Post by Avram Horowitz on May 24^th, 2012 at 1:59pm

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on May 24^th, 2012 at 12:37pm:

What do you think of the 2 state solution avram?

SOB

Will not work with current Palestinian views on subject.
They need to remove Hamas and also understand the settlers must stay in West Bank.
This is not a discussion. They are staying as we said so.

Title: Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Post by Spot of Borg on May 24^th, 2012 at 2:40pm

Avram Horowitz wrote on May 24^th, 2012 at 1:59pm:

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on May 24^th, 2012 at 12:37pm:

What do you think of the 2 state solution avram?

SOB

Will not work with current Palestinian views on subject.
They need to remove Hamas and also understand the settlers must stay in West Bank.
This is not a discussion. They are staying as we said so.

Why should settlers stay in west bank? You mean jewish settlers do you? Why should they stay? Its not their land.

SOB

Title: Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Post by Spot of Borg on Jun 6^th, 2012 at 8:39am

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/06/05/us-palestinians-abbas-idUSBRE8540YN20120605

Palestinian Abbas urges Israel to accept 2-state deal

Quote:

(Reuters) - Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas urged Israel on Tuesday to accept a two-state solution based on 1967 borders, warning that the opportunity "may not stay on the table for a long time" given the political upheavals caused by the Arab Spring.

Abbas set out the Palestinian case for statehood and full U.N. membership at a World Economic Forum conference in Istanbul, stressing that membership of the United Nations should not prejudice negotiations with Israel.

"I would like to address our Israeli neighbors and say we are seekers of peace and freedom and our people made a major sacrifice when they accepted establishing their state on less than a quarter of the area of historical Palestine," Abbas said.

"So do not turn your backs on this opportunity ... this opportunity may not stay on the table for a long time because the region is witnessing rapid developments," he said.

During the past year popular revolts have ousted Arab autocrats and dictators across North Africa and the Middle East, upset the U.S. foreign policy equation in the region and further isolated Israel.

Turkish Prime Minister Tayyip Erdogan told the conference the Palestinian issue remained the "the most important problem threatening peace and stability in the region", and said there was mounting anger with Israel over its policies.

Erdogan became a hero for many Arabs for publicly upbraiding Israeli President Shimon Peres at the World Economic Forum in Davos in 2009 over the killing of civilians in an offensive on the Palestinian Gaza enclave, and he again highlighted the plight of Palestinians living there under an Israeli blockade.

"People are being held captive in the world's largest open air prison and at the same time on the other side a large-scale rage is being pumped across the whole region," Erdogan said.

The Palestinian Authority wants its state firmly in the context of territory seized by Israel in the 1967 Six Day War as this would provide clear terms of reference and would mean Israel could no longer call the land "disputed."

In a dramatic move last September, Abbas submitted a U.N. membership application for a Palestinian state in the West Bank and Gaza Strip, with East Jerusalem as its capital, despite strong opposition from Israel and the United States, which say Middle East peace can come only through Israeli-Palestinian negotiations.

The application was held up at the committee stage, and the Palestinians have not so far requested a formal vote in the Security Council.

One of the biggest stumbling blocks to Palestinian-Israeli negotiations has been the issue of Israeli settlements in the West Bank, and Abbas called on U.N. Security Council members to exert pressure on Israel to stop building settlements.

(Editing by Tim Pearce)

SOB

Title: Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Post by Soren on Jun 6^th, 2012 at 10:17am

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on May 24^th, 2012 at 2:40pm:

Avram Horowitz wrote on May 24^th, 2012 at 1:59pm:

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on May 24^th, 2012 at 12:37pm:

What do you think of the 2 state solution avram?

SOB

Will not work with current Palestinian views on subject.
They need to remove Hamas and also understand the settlers must stay in West Bank.
This is not a discussion. They are staying as we said so.

Why should settlers stay in west bank? You mean jewish settlers do you? Why should they stay? Its not their land.

SOB

Whose is it?

Title: Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Post by Spot of Borg on Jun 6^th, 2012 at 10:31am

Well if israel accept the friggin 2 state thing it will be settled.

SOB

Title: Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Post by gizmo_2655 on Jun 6^th, 2012 at 6:15pm

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jun 6^th, 2012 at 10:31am:

Well if israel accept the friggin 2 state thing it will be settled.

SOB

And if the Arab League had accepted the UN Partition thing back in 1948, it would never have started, and the Palestinians would already HAVE a(nother) state...

Title: Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Post by Spot of Borg on Jun 6^th, 2012 at 6:28pm

gizmo_2655 wrote on Jun 6^th, 2012 at 6:15pm:

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jun 6^th, 2012 at 10:31am:

Well if israel accept the friggin 2 state thing it will be settled.

SOB

And if the Arab League had accepted the UN Partition thing back in 1948, it would never have started, and the Palestinians would already HAVE a(nother) state...

What the deal where israel keeps the west bank settlements there and a contingent of the military? Would you accept that if you were palestinian?

SOB

Title: Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Post by gizmo_2655 on Jun 6^th, 2012 at 8:15pm

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jun 6^th, 2012 at 6:28pm:

gizmo_2655 wrote on Jun 6^th, 2012 at 6:15pm:

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jun 6^th, 2012 at 10:31am:

Well if israel accept the friggin 2 state thing it will be settled.

SOB

And if the Arab League had accepted the UN Partition thing back in 1948, it would never have started, and the Palestinians would already HAVE a(nother) state...

What the deal where israel keeps the west bank settlements there and a contingent of the military? Would you accept that if you were palestinian?

SOB

No THIS one,
http://www.mfa.gov.il/MFA/Facts+About+Israel/Israel+in+Maps/1947+UN+Partition+Plan.htm

Title: Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Post by Spot of Borg on Jun 7^th, 2012 at 7:58am

That link doesnt load. I tried "allowing" the site but too many 3rd party scripts - not safe.

Just tell me. Was it fair? Did it say that israel would cease hostilities? Release the prisoners? Stop the killing and bulldozing?

SOB

Title: Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Post by Avram Horowitz on Jun 7^th, 2012 at 8:30am

Why don't you criticise Hamas suicide bombers?

Title: Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Post by Spot of Borg on Jun 7^th, 2012 at 8:38am

Avram Horowitz wrote on Jun 7^th, 2012 at 8:30am:

Why don't you criticise Hamas suicide bombers?

They are giving their lives to free their ppl. And how do you know they are "hamas" anyway? Did they tell you before they died? Or were they just freedom fighters from Gaza doing it on their own accord? You dont know. you think you do but you dont know for sure.

SOB

Title: Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Post by gizmo_2655 on Jun 7^th, 2012 at 10:46am

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jun 7^th, 2012 at 7:58am:

Ok, try this one...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Partition_Plan_for_Palestine

Title: Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Post by Spot of Borg on Jun 7^th, 2012 at 11:02am

gizmo_2655 wrote on Jun 7^th, 2012 at 10:46am:

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jun 7^th, 2012 at 7:58am:

Ok, try this one...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Partition_Plan_for_Palestine

It doesnt tell me any of those questions. What is your point? That the un voted against it? That the un voted for it? It doesnt seem to address anything thats happening now. Tell me what your point with bringing it up was.

SOB

Title: Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Post by Andrei.Hicks on Jun 7^th, 2012 at 11:11am

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jun 7^th, 2012 at 8:38am:

Avram Horowitz wrote on Jun 7^th, 2012 at 8:30am:

Why don't you criticise Hamas suicide bombers?

Including the guy who stepped onto a bus of women and children in downtown Jerusalem and set off a bomb loaded with ball bearings and nails to cause maximum casualties?

Amongst the dead were 15 aged under 12 years of age, a pregnant woman and a 2 year old.

This attack was claimed by Hamas and hailed the man who did it as a martyr.

You believe this was an action to be applauded and they are doing it to save his people?

If you do, then you are sick.

Do not reply about "the Jews do this or that", I am asking you about this incident that occurred in Jerusalem.

Title: Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Post by gizmo_2655 on Jun 7^th, 2012 at 11:13am

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jun 7^th, 2012 at 11:02am:

gizmo_2655 wrote on Jun 7^th, 2012 at 10:46am:

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jun 7^th, 2012 at 7:58am:

Ok, try this one...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Partition_Plan_for_Palestine

My point was, IF the Arab League hadn't rejected the UN Partition Plan in 1947, then there would have been 2 states of roughly equal size in the area, one Jewish and one Arab, and the various wars would not have happened....

Title: Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Post by Spot of Borg on Jun 7^th, 2012 at 11:28am

gizmo_2655 wrote on Jun 7^th, 2012 at 11:13am:

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jun 7^th, 2012 at 11:02am:

gizmo_2655 wrote on Jun 7^th, 2012 at 10:46am:

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jun 7^th, 2012 at 7:58am:

Ok, try this one...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Partition_Plan_for_Palestine

Yeah but the actual plan isnt outlined there. There was prolly something unfair in it but even if there wasnt it was 1947. a lot has changed since then and you would think they would have worked it out @ the time.

SOB

Title: Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Post by gizmo_2655 on Jun 7^th, 2012 at 11:31am

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jun 7^th, 2012 at 11:28am:

gizmo_2655 wrote on Jun 7^th, 2012 at 11:13am:

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jun 7^th, 2012 at 11:02am:

gizmo_2655 wrote on Jun 7^th, 2012 at 10:46am:

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jun 7^th, 2012 at 7:58am:

Ok, try this one...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Partition_Plan_for_Palestine

It was unfair.....to the Jewish people....the Arabs would have ended up with something like 77% of land

Title: Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Post by Spot of Borg on Jun 7^th, 2012 at 11:32am

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Jun 7^th, 2012 at 11:11am:

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jun 7^th, 2012 at 8:38am:

Avram Horowitz wrote on Jun 7^th, 2012 at 8:30am:

Why don't you criticise Hamas suicide bombers?

Well aside from the fact that this is completely off topic and I dont know anything about it because it is a specific incident . . . .

I dont know. I dont know the details. Why did hamas think this was necessary? What did the jews in israel do to them that caused them to need to resort to this? you arent going to tell me. You only see 1 side. I doubt anyone would do this for no reason though as you want me to believe.

Of course its bad that children died. However how many children have the israelis killed? How about those 2 apartment blocks? How about rachel corrie? Seems to me a lot more of the refugee children are killed than israeli ones.

SOB

Title: Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Post by Andrei.Hicks on Jun 7^th, 2012 at 12:13pm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shmuel_HaNavi_bus_bombing

knock yourself out.

Women and children deliberately killed by suicide bomber.

Disgusting isn't it?

"Both Hamas and Islamic Jihad claimed responsibility for the attack."

Title: Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Post by dsmithy70 on Jun 7^th, 2012 at 12:23pm

Nuke'm both & be done with it.

Title: Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Post by Spot of Borg on Jun 7^th, 2012 at 12:32pm

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Jun 7^th, 2012 at 12:13pm:

you dont even have the decency to make it a link huh.

Well it doesnt say in that article why they did it. This is the thing they always have a reason but we arent told. Israel knows why though I expect. "Terrorists" and "freedom fighters" always let their demands be known but the recipients like to deny it and say they are doing it for no reason. Remember Bush tried to say the 11/9 things were for no reason @ all but it came out later that there was a reason. We will never know the whole story though.

SOB

Title: Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Post by Andrei.Hicks on Jun 7^th, 2012 at 1:07pm

You are not concerned that a guy deliberately gets on a bus carrying pregnant women and little children and blows it up?

You don't think this is a despicable act?

Title: Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Post by Spot of Borg on Jun 7^th, 2012 at 1:12pm

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Jun 7^th, 2012 at 1:07pm:

You are not concerned that a guy deliberately gets on a bus carrying pregnant women and little children and blows it up?

You don't think this is a despicable act?

Do you ever read back in a thread before launching your attack?

It has nothing to do with the topic though since it is a single incident with not enough information.

SOB

Title: Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Post by Spot of Borg on Jun 8^th, 2012 at 10:15am

Here we go again

Yeah israel really wants peace huh. So much so that they are planning on building more settlements on west bank.

http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/israel-build-850-apartments-west-bank-16514327

Its too long to paste just click on the link and read it. I chose the ABC for the story but there were lots of other choices. ABC seemed the least objectionable.

Heres a couple more sources for those who want to be a dick

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2012/06/08/palestinians-mull-non-member-state-status-at-un/

http://www.haaretz.com/news/national/israeli-government-officials-rightists-holding-negotiations-on-relocation-of-ulpana-homes-1.435116

http://www.jpost.com/Opinion/Op-EdContributors/Article.aspx?id=273120

SOB

Title: Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Post by Spot of Borg on Jun 9^th, 2012 at 7:40am

So nobody wants to address this? Instead you prefer to quote me out of context and distract from the topics?

SOB

Title: Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Post by Avram Horowitz on Jun 9^th, 2012 at 11:16am

When you take just an anti-Israel view then your view is not unbias and you do not sound credit worthy.

You also have admitted so many times, you dont know the situation very well.
You ignore the history of Arabs consistently attacking Israel and setting off suicide bombs.

When you show some sense of unbias and stop criticise just Israel then maybe people will also believe you are more sense worthy.

Title: Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Post by Spot of Borg on Jun 9^th, 2012 at 11:29am

Avram Horowitz wrote on Jun 9^th, 2012 at 11:16am:

No I dont ignore it. I try to explain why they are doing it. You are the one ignoring the facts. Israel is oppressing these ppl. Look! they are planning to build more settlements! They obviously dont want peace.

SOB

Title: Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Post by Avram Horowitz on Jun 9^th, 2012 at 12:36pm

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jun 9^th, 2012 at 11:29am:

Avram Horowitz wrote on Jun 9^th, 2012 at 11:16am:

But you do not condemn when they murder Israeli women and children with suicide bombs on bus.

Title: Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Post by Spot of Borg on Jun 9^th, 2012 at 12:52pm

That is a lie. I just refused to discuss it for pages and pages because it was off topic.

Why does israel not want peace?

SOB

Title: Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Post by Avram Horowitz on Jun 9^th, 2012 at 12:53pm

You refuse to condemn it.

It takes one post, one line. Not pages and pages but you did not.

Instead (as always) you want to concentrate your criticism to Israel.

Title: Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Post by Spot of Borg on Jun 9^th, 2012 at 12:59pm

Avram Horowitz wrote on Jun 9^th, 2012 at 12:53pm:

You refuse to condemn it.

It takes one post, one line. Not pages and pages but you did not.

Instead (as always) you want to concentrate your criticism to Israel.

You obviously dont read my posts. I did the 1 line and thats enough. I am not repeating it over and over for your amusement.

This thread is about israel. What do you expect? Discussion about bolivia?

Why does israel not want peace?

SOB

Title: Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Post by Avram Horowitz on Jun 9^th, 2012 at 1:01pm

I expect you to be even.

You are not.

You always criticise Israel and you have called us terrorists and murderers.

You do not like Israel. You have showed this.

Title: Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Post by freediver on Jun 9^th, 2012 at 1:08pm

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jun 9^th, 2012 at 11:29am:

Avram Horowitz wrote on Jun 9^th, 2012 at 11:16am:

Can you explain why puppet, someone you claim to mostly agree with and who has no direct connect with the conflict, wants to have 90% of Israel's adult population killed and the children taken away to be 're-educated' by Palestinians? Can you explain why Abu and Falah want another mass forced migration of Jews? Can you rationally do any of this without criticising Islam?

Title: Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Post by Spot of Borg on Jun 9^th, 2012 at 1:17pm

Avram Horowitz wrote on Jun 9^th, 2012 at 1:01pm:

I expect you to be even.

You are not.

You always criticise Israel and you have called us terrorists and murderers.

You do not like Israel. You have showed this.

You are right there. I do not like israel. I do not like israels treatment of other ppl especially palestinians. I do not like their attitude that "might is right" and i do not like the way jews (referring to the religion here) think they are better than everyone else because they are gods chosen. you never did answer my question about what you would do if somebody @ uni threw a pencil @ you.

I cannot be "even" about this because the situation is not "even". Israel is oppressing those ppl. Israel is the aggressor. Israel is in the wrong. They need to stop.

Before you go trying to put words in my mouth I am NOT saying israel shouldn't exist.

This thread is about israel so in this thread there will be discussion about israel.

SOB

Title: Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Post by falah on Jun 9^th, 2012 at 1:20pm

freediver wrote on Jun 9^th, 2012 at 1:08pm:

You are a liar Freeliar. I say that Jews are welcome to live in a palestinian state, and you say that somehow means killing 90% of them.

Don't you see how pathetic your lies are?

It is good that people see how Islam-haters like you are only pathetic liars.

Title: Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Post by freediver on Jun 9^th, 2012 at 1:23pm

falah wrote on Jun 9^th, 2012 at 1:20pm:

freediver wrote on Jun 9^th, 2012 at 1:08pm:

Puppet you are posting with Falah's account again.

Title: Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Post by Avram Horowitz on Jun 9^th, 2012 at 1:27pm

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jun 9^th, 2012 at 1:17pm:

Avram Horowitz wrote on Jun 9^th, 2012 at 1:01pm:

I expect you to be even.

You are not.

You always criticise Israel and you have called us terrorists and murderers.

You do not like Israel. You have showed this.

The thread is also says 'and the Palestinians' but you ignore their suicide bombings and killing of innocent people because 'they have reasons'.

Title: Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Post by Avram Horowitz on Jun 9^th, 2012 at 1:28pm

We have given them all of Gaza - there is not a single Israeli soldier or citizen in Gaza.

But still they fire rockets.

So tell me why are Hamas firing rockets at us when we are not in Gaza?

Title: Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Post by Spot of Borg on Jun 9^th, 2012 at 1:32pm

Avram Horowitz wrote on Jun 9^th, 2012 at 1:28pm:

We have given them all of Gaza - there is not a single Israeli soldier or citizen in Gaza.

But still they fire rockets.

So tell me why are Hamas firing rockets at us when we are not in Gaza?

Perhaps because you have 100s of palestinians in jail without trial? Perhaps because you are still building settlements on west bank? Perhaps theres other stuff israelis are doing to them I dont know about? Just 1 of those things is too much though.

SOB

Title: Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Post by Avram Horowitz on Jun 9^th, 2012 at 1:37pm

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jun 9^th, 2012 at 1:32pm:

Avram Horowitz wrote on Jun 9^th, 2012 at 1:28pm:

We have given them all of Gaza - there is not a single Israeli soldier or citizen in Gaza.

But still they fire rockets.

So tell me why are Hamas firing rockets at us when we are not in Gaza?

Hamas is in Gaza.
The settlements are in the West Bank.

Fatah is West Bank - Hamas has nothing to do with the West Bank.

See?
Your knowledge of the region is very poor and still you comment.

Title: Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Post by Spot of Borg on Jun 9^th, 2012 at 2:25pm

Hmmmm seems you ignored my answer

Perhaps because you have 100s of palestinians in jail without trial? Perhaps because you are still building settlements on west bank? Perhaps theres other stuff israelis are doing to them I dont know about? Just 1 of those things is too much though.

SOB

Title: Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Post by Avram Horowitz on Jun 9^th, 2012 at 2:42pm

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jun 9^th, 2012 at 2:25pm:

Your answer made no sense.

Hamas is rulers of Gaza.

Settlements are on the West Bank.

Understand? hamas has nothing to do with west bank.

Title: Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Post by Spot of Borg on Jun 9^th, 2012 at 3:00pm

Avram Horowitz wrote on Jun 9^th, 2012 at 2:42pm:

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jun 9^th, 2012 at 2:25pm:

Your answer made no sense.

Hamas is rulers of Gaza.

Settlements are on the West Bank.

Understand? hamas has nothing to do with west bank.

So what? You asked why rockets? You go to gaza to blow up apartment buildings you must know who is there? West bank is still part of palestinian land. Its all part of the same thing and you know it. Why are you trying to separate it? Ohhhhh because of the other question you never answered. Why are they building again . . . . well why? Why does israel not want peace?

SOB

Title: Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Post by freediver on Jun 9^th, 2012 at 3:19pm

Quote:

So what? You asked why rockets? You go to gaza to blow up apartment buildings you must know who is there?

Spot, they blow them up because rockets are being launched from them. They are hardly going to go in and do a census first. Then you would complain even louder.

The Palestinians could of course choose not to launch rockets from residential buildings.

Title: Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Post by Yadda on Jun 9^th, 2012 at 3:34pm

Incessant rockets from Gaza, being fired at Israeli civilian targets ?

Regular declarations from Hamas that they intend to slaughter the Jewish people in Israel ?

Personally i would like to see the Israelis raze every building in Gaza city to the ground.

And then, push Hamas [i.e. all of the 'Palestinians' in Gaza], into the sea.

That day is coming.

The sooner the better, imo.

Title: Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Post by Spot of Borg on Jun 9^th, 2012 at 3:38pm

freediver wrote on Jun 9^th, 2012 at 3:19pm:

Quote:

So what? You asked why rockets? You go to gaza to blow up apartment buildings you must know who is there?

Pretty sure avram said earlier that the rockets were launched form
mobile launchers" (meaning utes) which then would drive off.

So now they are coming from apartment buildings? Was avram lying? I tend to believe him over you freeliar. He has @ least been mostly honest about it.

Even if they were launched form the apartment buildings that doesnt excuse killing all those innocent ppl in the rest of the buildings.

SOB

Title: Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Post by Soren on Jun 9^th, 2012 at 4:07pm

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jun 9^th, 2012 at 3:38pm:

freediver wrote on Jun 9^th, 2012 at 3:19pm:

Quote:

So what? You asked why rockets? You go to gaza to blow up apartment buildings you must know who is there?

SOME are from utes, SOME from buildings, SOME from the bushes, Sherlock.

I have never come across anyone who is so thick but noice as you. You can spell, you know grammar, you are civil - but gawd, you are really stupid.
Stupid is actually too strong. You are an innocent abroad with no ideas. It would be charming if you weren't so tendentiously, insistently ignorant.
I think you are working on being so thick. You seem to be putting a lot of effort into being stupid without any self-awareness. Tut tut. Wrong example for the kiddies.

Title: Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Post by Spot of Borg on Jun 9^th, 2012 at 4:17pm

Quote:

Personally i would like to see the Israelis raze every building in Gaza city to the ground.

And then, push Hamas [i.e. all of the 'Palestinians' in Gaza], into the sea.

That day is coming.

The sooner the better, imo.

So. Is yadda going to be banned like PP? Or is it only 1 side of the argument that gets banned for saying that kind of thing?

SOB

Title: Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Post by Avram Horowitz on Jun 9^th, 2012 at 4:21pm

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jun 9^th, 2012 at 4:17pm:

Quote:

So. Is yadda going to be banned like PP? Or is it only 1 side of the argument that gets banned for saying that kind of thing?

SOB

Is PP banned?

he should be - he made threats to kill people and that Jews should be gassed.

Title: Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Post by Spot of Borg on Jun 9^th, 2012 at 4:34pm

Avram Horowitz wrote on Jun 9^th, 2012 at 4:21pm:

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jun 9^th, 2012 at 4:17pm:

Quote:

So. Is yadda going to be banned like PP? Or is it only 1 side of the argument that gets banned for saying that kind of thing?

SOB

Is PP banned?

he should be - he made threats to kill people and that Jews should be gassed.

Well he isnt here is he. I am only guessing that he was banned though since the mods dont tell us.

Yadda just said that genocide should be committed on all the palestinians though. Will he be banned? I am betting not.

Avram when will; you answer me? Why doesnt israel want peace? Why are they building settlements again? Are they refusing to talk again?

SOB

Title: Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Post by Soren on Jun 9^th, 2012 at 10:40pm

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jun 9^th, 2012 at 4:34pm:

Avram when will; you answer me? Why doesnt israel want peace?

SOB

When will you answer me? Are you working on being such a numpty? What's your method (yours is not a natural state of stupidity, you must be doing or taking something). When will you answer?

Title: Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Post by Spot of Borg on Jun 10^th, 2012 at 4:33am

Quote:

he should be - he made threats to kill people and that Jews should be gassed.

didnt he pay the price for that already? Why do you want to continue punishing him for the same crime over and over? Is this what you do to the palestinians? All 5million of them have to continually pay for something that happened a long time ago (in another generation)?

SOB

Title: Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Post by freediver on Jun 10^th, 2012 at 9:04am

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jun 9^th, 2012 at 3:38pm:

freediver wrote on Jun 9^th, 2012 at 3:19pm:

Quote:

So what? You asked why rockets? You go to gaza to blow up apartment buildings you must know who is there?

The utes would probably be an adaptation to Israel's very sophisticated responses these days. They can land their return fire right on the Jihadi's head in less than a minute. Check out the videos on youtube.

What has no excuse is using civilians as shields for military action and blaming the people you are shooting at when the civilians die..

Title: Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Post by Spot of Borg on Jun 10^th, 2012 at 9:09am

freediver wrote on Jun 10^th, 2012 at 9:04am:

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jun 9^th, 2012 at 3:38pm:

freediver wrote on Jun 9^th, 2012 at 3:19pm:

Quote:

So what? You asked why rockets? You go to gaza to blow up apartment buildings you must know who is there?

Avram said they couldn't respond very fast. Somewhere there is a thread where someone suggested they use helicopters or something. Need avram to explain.

SOB

Title: Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Post by Gist on Jun 10^th, 2012 at 10:06am

freediver wrote on Jun 10^th, 2012 at 9:04am:

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jun 9^th, 2012 at 3:38pm:

freediver wrote on Jun 9^th, 2012 at 3:19pm:

Quote:

So what? You asked why rockets? You go to gaza to blow up apartment buildings you must know who is there?

What has no excuse is shooting civilians that you know are being used as shields. You're condoning blowing up apartment buildings knowing that the rockets were launched from utes long gone? That's known as genocide.

Title: Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Post by freediver on Jun 10^th, 2012 at 10:29am

Gist wrote on Jun 10^th, 2012 at 10:06am:

freediver wrote on Jun 10^th, 2012 at 9:04am:

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jun 9^th, 2012 at 3:38pm:

freediver wrote on Jun 9^th, 2012 at 3:19pm:

Quote:

So what? You asked why rockets? You go to gaza to blow up apartment buildings you must know who is there?

No Gist, try sticking to what I actually say. I realise this is not as convenient as making it up as you go along, but it is much simpler in the long run.

Title: Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Post by Spot of Borg on Jun 10^th, 2012 at 10:34am

Quote:

What has no excuse is shooting civilians that you know are being used as shields.

I agree

SOB

Title: Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Post by Gist on Jun 10^th, 2012 at 11:20am

freediver wrote on Jun 10^th, 2012 at 10:29am:

Gist wrote on Jun 10^th, 2012 at 10:06am:

freediver wrote on Jun 10^th, 2012 at 9:04am:

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jun 9^th, 2012 at 3:38pm:

freediver wrote on Jun 9^th, 2012 at 3:19pm:

Quote:

So what? You asked why rockets? You go to gaza to blow up apartment buildings you must know who is there?

No Gist, try sticking to what I actually say. I realise this is not as convenient as making it up as you go along, but it is much simpler in the long run.

Fine. Rockets are launched from apartment buildings so you blow up the buildings knowing that there are innocent civilians in there. Why stop there? >:(

It's still completely unacceptable.

Title: Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Post by freediver on Jun 10^th, 2012 at 11:49am

So what is your alternative? Let them fire rockets into Israeli cities? What about the Israeli civilians in those buildings?

Title: Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Post by Spot of Borg on Jun 10^th, 2012 at 11:57am

freediver wrote on Jun 10^th, 2012 at 11:49am:

So what is your alternative? Let them fire rockets into Israeli cities? What about the Israeli civilians in those buildings?

cooperate in the peace process.

SOB

Title: Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Post by Spot of Borg on Jun 10^th, 2012 at 12:05pm

Yadda wrote on Jun 9^th, 2012 at 3:34pm:

Along with the jews? Perhaps iran will get a nuke and blow the whole area to smithereens. Wouldn't that be better? No more palestinians and no more jews. Yes this is what should happen.

We have gillard as a prime minster. Do you think you are responsible for her being in office if you didnt vote for her? So all palestinians voted for hamas? I certainly didnt vote for howard and yet there he was committing war crimes.

SOB

Title: Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Post by Gist on Jun 10^th, 2012 at 12:10pm

freediver wrote on Jun 10^th, 2012 at 11:49am:

So what is your alternative? Let them fire rockets into Israeli cities? What about the Israeli civilians in those buildings?

I don't see how you can propose that the best way to stop murderers is to murder someone else. All that does is turn you into what you are trying to overcome. If the Jews really want to do that, why don't they go the whole hog (so to speak), get someone with a funny moustache to lead them and they can set up extermination camps for the Palestinians. They may as well become completely what it is they hate.

The first step to an answer is to admit that there is no defense from murderers using civilians as shields.

Then engage them around a table. TALK! While they're talking - really talking - they won't be firing rockets. Which is what you want.

Title: Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Post by Avram Horowitz on Jun 10^th, 2012 at 12:27pm

Gist wrote on Jun 10^th, 2012 at 11:20am:

freediver wrote on Jun 10^th, 2012 at 10:29am:

Gist wrote on Jun 10^th, 2012 at 10:06am:

freediver wrote on Jun 10^th, 2012 at 9:04am:

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jun 9^th, 2012 at 3:38pm:

freediver wrote on Jun 9^th, 2012 at 3:19pm:

Quote:

So what? You asked why rockets? You go to gaza to blow up apartment buildings you must know who is there?

No Gist, try sticking to what I actually say. I realise this is not as convenient as making it up as you go along, but it is much simpler in the long run.

Fine. Rockets are launched from apartment buildings so you blow up the buildings knowing that there are innocent civilians in there. Why stop there? >:(

It's still completely unacceptable.

How do we know there are civilians in there?
Unless we conduct door to door investigation we do not know.

This is in Gaza - we have pulled out of Gaza, we do not have door knock capability.

What we do know is co-ordinates of the launch, which landed in Ashdod - sometimes on schools, sometimes in market places.
The response is to raise F-16 responses to the fire and return strike to the position exactly where launched.

If there are civilians there - who is to blame?
Us for response or the people hire people from there?

Title: Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Post by Spot of Borg on Jun 10^th, 2012 at 12:39pm

Quote:

How do we know there are civilians in there?
Unless we conduct door to door investigation we do not know.

EXACTLY! And yet you blow them up. It is reasonable to expect there are families and children in there because they are apartment buildings and thats where families and children live. However you dont check you just blast away not caring.

SOB

Title: Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Post by Soren on Jun 10^th, 2012 at 1:18pm

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jun 10^th, 2012 at 12:39pm:

Quote:

How do we know there are civilians in there?
Unless we conduct door to door investigation we do not know.

They are firing from those civilian building. Why is that? Because they know that the IDF will shoot back and the useful idiots like you will say just what you have said.

You never once ask - why do the pallos shoot from behind their women and children? Why don't you ask that? Because it has never crossed your mind to notice: the IDF is not shooting from civilian buildings, the IDF is not hiding behind women and children. The Pallos do. That's why they are called terrorists.

But you are, of course, too bloody thick to notice any of that. This is why I believe that you actually actively work on being such a god-awful idiot. No reasonable grown up could be as stupid as you, Git and the rest of the international useful idiot brigade without all the extra effort you all put into being idiots.

Title: Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Post by Spot of Borg on Jun 10^th, 2012 at 1:31pm

And still nobody answers the question. Why is israel trying to build more settlements? Why dont they want peace?

SOB

Title: Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Post by Soren on Jun 10^th, 2012 at 1:49pm

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jun 10^th, 2012 at 1:31pm:

And still nobody answers the question. Why is israel trying to build more settlements? Why dont they want peace?

SOB

Why shouldn't they build settlements? There are over a million Arabs in Israel. Don't they build houses? They do. Nobody bats an eyelid.

The West Bank settlements are not in anyone else's country, the West Bank has been occupied territory since demise of the ottoman Empire. Arabs can build there, Jews can build there.

The Arabs had lots of opportunities to make peace and start a country. They have rejected every single one.
Israel accepted the first offer that was made. Because they want peace.

But I know you don't understand any of this and want to go on asking the same thing as if you haven't had an answer.

Title: Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Post by Yadda on Jun 10^th, 2012 at 1:58pm

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jun 9^th, 2012 at 4:17pm:

Quote:

So. Is yadda going to be banned like PP? Or is it only 1 side of the argument that gets banned for saying that kind of thing?

SOB

1st....

Quote:

Incessant rockets from Gaza, being fired at Israeli civilian targets ?

Regular declarations from Hamas that they intend to slaughter the Jewish people in Israel ?

2nd....

Quote:

SOB,

The 2nd, is a consequence of the 1st.

97%-99% of the 'Palestinians' in Gaza are moslems.

And 100% of the persons resident in Gaza are moslems, or, their sympathizers.

And EVERY SINGLE PERSON who says "I am a moslem.", is a person who has chosen to embrace ISLAM and its tenets.

And ISLAM's tenets and laws call for the slaughter of all Jewish people.

I say again, ISLAM's tenets and laws call for the slaughter of all Jewish people.

Google;
muslims, slaughter the jews!

To me, that is provocation enough, ALONG WITH THE INCESSANT ROCKETS FROM GAZA, AND THE REGULAR THREATS OF SLAUGHTER MADE BY 'PALESTINIANS' IN GAZA, AGAINST THE JEWISH PEOPLE OF ISRAEL........to warrant the total destruction of Gaza, and its people.

If the moslems in Gaza want mercy, THEN,.....

Stop the rocketing, and stop the threats of genocide against the people of Israel, OR, 'on your own head be it', bear the consequences of YOUR attacks and of YOUR threats, being made against Israel and the Jewish people.

Do the moslems in Gaza want mercy, OR, do the moslems in Gaza want blood, and slaughter ???

It is a simple choice.

AND I PROMISE YOU, THAT THE MOSLEMS IN GAZA, WILL GET, EXACTLY, WHAT THEIR HEARTS DESIRE.

;) ;) ;)

Ezekiel 35:5
Because thou hast had a perpetual hatred, and hast shed the blood of the children of Israel by the force of the sword in the time of their calamity, in the time that their iniquity had an end:
6 Therefore, as I live, saith the Lord GOD, I will prepare thee unto blood, and blood shall pursue thee: sith thou hast not hated blood, even blood shall pursue thee.

".....in the time that their iniquity had an end:"

.....refers to, and signifies that 'the time of the gentiles' [having control of Jerusalem] is ended.

'The time of the gentiles' ended in 1967, when the Jewish people took back control of Jerusalem.

Title: Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Post by Spot of Borg on Jun 10^th, 2012 at 2:14pm

Why did the palestinians reject the peace agreement? Could it be because it was unfair? And how long ago was that? Wasnt recently was it. Recently israel has rejected a peace deal because they didnt like it. Israel is not looking for peace or they would abide by ceasefires. They would stop the settling and the bulldozing. They would let the prisoners go.

Killing innocents is not right. Even if they are shields. In any other country the innocent would not be fired upon if they were used as a shield. Can you imagine the police in australia shooting a bikie that was holding a person in front of them? Wouldn't happen. Yet the israelis dont care they kill children and whole families.

SOB

Title: Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Post by muso on Jun 10^th, 2012 at 2:15pm

Fortunately I don't have to make a call on that one. Probably the two state solution if it can somehow be made to work.

Title: Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Post by Yadda on Jun 10^th, 2012 at 2:20pm

Gist wrote on Jun 10^th, 2012 at 11:20am:

Fine. Rockets are launched from apartment buildings so you blow up the buildings knowing that there are innocent civilians in there.

Why stop there? >:(

It's still completely unacceptable.

Exactly so.

I say; Raze Gaza city to the ground, if it will stop the rockets emanating from Gaza.

If Hamas [which claims to be the governing authority in Gaza], can not stop the rockets, emanating from Gaza [rockets that target and kill Israeli civilians], then imo, it is completely acceptable that the Israelis should do the job for them.

Completely acceptable.

And we all know how efficient the Israelis can be, at permanently 'solving' a problem, when they put their minds to a problem.

Title: Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Post by Spot of Borg on Jun 10^th, 2012 at 2:23pm

Quote:

I say; Raze Gaza city to the ground, if it will stop the rockets emanating from Gaza

I say it would be easier to just nuke israel.

SOB

Title: Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Post by Yadda on Jun 10^th, 2012 at 2:28pm

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jun 10^th, 2012 at 11:57am:

freediver wrote on Jun 10^th, 2012 at 11:49am:

So what is your alternative? Let them fire rockets into Israeli cities? What about the Israeli civilians in those buildings?

cooperate in the peace process.

SOB

There is no sincere 'peace process'.

There is only a desire, on the part of Israel's enemies, to use the machinations of 'a peace process' to weaken Israel to the point were ISLAMISTS can then destroy Israel.

That is not going to happen.

Many moslems are going to die, again.

Because that is the desire, of their 'god', Allah.

"Allah hath purchased of the believers their persons and their goods; for theirs (in return) is the garden (of Paradise): they fight in His cause, and slay and are slain:...."
Koran 9.111

"Allah's Apostle was asked, "What is the best deed?" He replied, "To believe in Allah and His Apostle (Muhammad). The questioner then asked, "What is the next (in goodness)? He replied, "To participate in Jihad (religious fighting) in Allah's Cause." "
hadithsunnah/bukhari/ #001.002.026

"A man came to the Prophet and asked, "A man fights for war booty; another fights for fame and a third fights for showing off; which of them fights in Allah's Cause?" The Prophet said, "He who fights that Allah's Word (i.e. Islam) should be superior, fights in Allah's Cause." "
hadithsunnah/bukhari/ #004.052.065
hadithsunnah/bukhari/ #004.052.080i

Title: Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Post by Yadda on Jun 10^th, 2012 at 2:31pm

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jun 10^th, 2012 at 2:23pm:

Quote:

I say; Raze Gaza city to the ground, if it will stop the rockets emanating from Gaza

I say it would be easier to just nuke israel.

SOB

Yes, that would kill a lot of worthless, evil Jews, wouldn't it SOB ???
/sarc off

The 'problem' of the State of Israel and the Jewish people ?

Problem solved.
/sarc off

SOB,

Are you sure that you are not a moslem ???

"....the death of those who are killed for the cause of God gives more impetus to the cause, which continues to thrive on their blood."
ISLAMIC scholar, Sayyid Qutb, .......A moslem, promoting, justifying, ISLAM's murder of those who do not believe, as they believe.

Title: Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Post by Spot of Borg on Jun 10^th, 2012 at 2:35pm

Quote:

There would be a sincere peace process if israel would be sincere about it. Israel breaks the ceasefires every time not the palestinians. They (and you obviously) are so blinded by racism that you assign motives to ppl and refuse to even try. Also israel wont be reasonable. That last "agreement" wasnt acceptable.

SOB

Title: Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Post by Avram Horowitz on Jun 10^th, 2012 at 2:36pm

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jun 10^th, 2012 at 12:39pm:

Quote:

How do we know there are civilians in there?
Unless we conduct door to door investigation we do not know.

Why do you not understand the obvious?

There is no Israeli in Gaza. But they fire rockets at us.

If they did not fire rockets then there would be no retaliation. Hard to understand?

Title: Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Post by Avram Horowitz on Jun 10^th, 2012 at 2:37pm

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jun 10^th, 2012 at 2:35pm:

Quote:

Israel left Gaza.
Israel drew back from the security buffer of northern Israeli border.

Never forced by Palestinians.
Done because we said we would.

They stop firing rockets, there will be no more retaliation.

Why do you not understand that point?

Title: Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Post by Spot of Borg on Jun 10^th, 2012 at 2:40pm

Avram Horowitz wrote on Jun 10^th, 2012 at 2:36pm:

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jun 10^th, 2012 at 12:39pm:

Quote:

How do we know there are civilians in there?
Unless we conduct door to door investigation we do not know.

Why do you not understand the obvious?

There is no Israeli in Gaza. But they fire rockets at us.

If they did not fire rockets then there would be no retaliation. Hard to understand?

They fire rockets because you bulldoze in west bank most prolly. Because you have 100s of their ppl locked up in jails without trial. Because you go to gaza and blow up apartment buildings. Because israel wont commit to peace or ceasefires. Because israel is still building settlements (yeah you said they werent).

SOB

Title: Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Post by Avram Horowitz on Jun 10^th, 2012 at 2:41pm

Hamas has nothing to do with West Bank.

How much do you actually know about my region?

You seem to get a lot wrong.

Title: Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Post by Spot of Borg on Jun 10^th, 2012 at 2:46pm

Avram Horowitz wrote on Jun 10^th, 2012 at 2:41pm:

Hamas has nothing to do with West Bank.

How much do you actually know about my region?

You seem to get a lot wrong.

Its all palestinians. Whatever the politics the ppl are all palestinians. If there is a 2 state solution it will be all palestine.

I dont read all the articles that come up in my google news., They just make me angry. They are always either some israelis killing some palestinai9ns or some palestinians trying to kill some israelis. This all needs to stop. Israel wont be reasonable though.

SOB

Title: Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Post by Avram Horowitz on Jun 10^th, 2012 at 2:56pm

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jun 10^th, 2012 at 2:46pm:

Avram Horowitz wrote on Jun 10^th, 2012 at 2:41pm:

Hamas has nothing to do with West Bank.

How much do you actually know about my region?

You seem to get a lot wrong.

Yes but you see the problem they want a state but the two Gaza and West Bank hate each other.

Fatah and Hamas have killed each other.
It is no problem to me, I have seen Palestinian gun battle on West Bank between the two sides and we sit back and watch it from the checkpoint.

Title: Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Post by Spot of Borg on Jun 10^th, 2012 at 3:00pm

Quote:

Okay. I did not know about that. Can you tell me more about it? the prisoners in the jail are they from west bank gaza or both?

How can they have 1 state if they are fighting between themselves? Would it be 1 country with 2 states? And why does israel keep building on west bank and bulldozing ppls homes?

SOB

Title: Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Post by Avram Horowitz on Jun 10^th, 2012 at 3:02pm

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jun 10^th, 2012 at 3:00pm:

Quote:

Okay. I did not know about that. Can you tell me more about it?

SOB

Fatah and Hamas hate each other with passion.
Hamas has kicked out all of Fatah members from gaza and torched the HQ in Gaza City of Fatah.

In response Fatah members have beaten Hamas members on the West Bank and banished them to Gaza.

The clashes then happen over last 2 years where they are found in each other territory.

They both hate each other.
You do not know this?

Title: Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Post by freediver on Jun 10^th, 2012 at 3:05pm

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jun 10^th, 2012 at 2:35pm:

Quote:

That is kind of naive don't you think Spot? All they have to do is stop firing rockets, and peace would be pretty much inevitable. The truth is that too many muslims (including Abu and Falah) cannot tolerate the existence of Israel and think the ongoing deaths of Palestinian people is a small price to pay to keep open the chance of a glorious victory in which the surviving Israeli's are sent to some other country.

When it comes to who breaks the ceasefires, you are yet again talking about something of which you know nothing at all. You have previously attempted to justify the inability of the Palestinian authority to prevent Palestinians from firing rockets into Israel (because they are upset), but at the same time argue that they are the more restrained ones.

You can't have it both ways. Either they are a reasonable group of people who are capable of pacticing self control and are worth negotiating with, or they are petulant reactionaries who are not responsible for their own actions.

Title: Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Post by Yadda on Jun 10^th, 2012 at 3:07pm

Gist wrote on Jun 10^th, 2012 at 12:10pm:

freediver wrote on Jun 10^th, 2012 at 11:49am:

So what is your alternative? Let them fire rockets into Israeli cities? What about the Israeli civilians in those buildings?

I don't see how you can propose that the best way to stop murderers is to murder someone else.......

The first step to an answer is to admit that there is no defense from murderers using civilians as shields.

Then engage them around a table.

TALK!

While they're talking - really talking - they won't be firing rockets. Which is what you want.

So, your solution, if i try to murder you, is to let me murder you ???

That will put an end to violence ???

You propose that when a bully threatens us, we should give the bully, everything he wants ???

You can do that.

Here are my list of demands;

I want your car keys.

I want all of the money in your bank account.

And, i want the title to your house.

And i want your wife, as a servant and sexual play thing.

No?, you won't submit to my demands ?

Then you should let me kill you, so as to avoid any violence that >> I << may suffer.

What is so unreasonable with my demands, YOU BIGOT! ???

You do want >> ME << to avoid suffering violence, don't you ???
/sarc off

Gist,

YOU CAN GO TO HELL, TOO!

Title: Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Post by Spot of Borg on Jun 10^th, 2012 at 3:24pm

Quote:

You do not know this?

Well now you mention it I do remember hearing about it and thinking it was just internal politics.I didnt remember. Its just because they are constantly in a state of oppressions and readiness for attack they are way more violent. 2 different political parties like here but they have violence.

*note to others. This is why i prefer to talk to avram. He doesnt insult me as much and actually tells me what it is he thinks i dont know. He got me that time because i forgot about those 2 factions.

Of course avram you didnt answer my questions there. Is there a peace process going on between the 2? From what I remember it was west bank that is trying to start the peace process? Am I right? Yet if I am right they are the very ones you are imposing upon with the bulldozing and building.

Quote:

All they have to do is stop firing rockets, and peace would be pretty much inevitable.

They have stopped many times and israel always does something that causes them to start up again.

The rest of your crap is misrepresenting me again so im ignoring it

Quote:

So, your solution, if i try to murder you, is to let me murder you ???

This seems to be the attitude of israel. Someone sends a rocket that doesnt kill anyone so they blow up 2 apartment buildings full of families and children. Disproportionate and not a good way to make peace. Perhaps if israel stops provoking them they will stop. Wow! what a novel idea!

Quote:

YOU CAN GO TO HELL, TOO!

What a fine argument you put forth there! you sure told him!

SOB

Title: Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Post by Yadda on Jun 10^th, 2012 at 3:40pm

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jun 10^th, 2012 at 3:24pm:

Quote:

So, your solution, if i try to murder you, is to let me murder you ???

This seems to be the attitude of israel.

Someone sends a rocket that doesnt kill anyone so they blow up 2 apartment buildings full of families and children.

Disproportionate and not a good way to make peace. Perhaps if israel stops provoking them they will stop. Wow! what a novel idea!

What ?

The INTENT, of moslems ['Palestinians'] firing rockets into civilian areas in Israel, is NOT to harm anyone ???

I don't think so.

IMO, Israel should either surrender eretz Israel to the 'Palestinians', OR, Israel should remove her enemies, those who repeatedly make military attacks upon her, and her citizens.

'Bugger' world opinion.

Israel should defend Israel, and its citizens, from attacks, being made by its enemies.

Israel should severely punish those who repeatedly make military attacks upon her, and her citizens.

Otherwise, the attacks, and the rockets, will continue.

It takes two people to make a peace, between them.

It only takes one, of two people, to engage in warfare.

Where it clearly can, Israel should punish those who make war upon it.i

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jun 10^th, 2012 at 3:24pm:

Quote:

YOU CAN GO TO HELL, TOO!

What a fine argument you put forth there! you sure told him!

SOB

Yes, i thought so too.
/sarc off

Title: Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Post by Avram Horowitz on Jun 10^th, 2012 at 3:49pm

I have witnessed a gun battle between Fatah and Hamas in Hebron.

We kept out of the way and just monitored as it was beyond Israel security and took place in palestinian control zone.

I dont know if deaths but red crescent ambulances were called because we monitored the radio traffic.

This was 2009.

Title: Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Post by Spot of Borg on Jun 10^th, 2012 at 3:50pm

Quote:

Yes, i thought so too.
/sarc off

So you really didnt think so huh - why do it then?

Quote:

It takes two people to make a peace, between them.

Yes

Quote:

It only takes one, of two people, to engage in warfare.

Where it clearly can, Israel should punish those who make war upon it.

So there is no peace because israel wont stick with an agreement.

SOB

Title: Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Post by Soren on Jun 10^th, 2012 at 3:52pm

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jun 10^th, 2012 at 3:50pm:

[quote]

So there is no peace because israel wont stick with an agreement.

SOB

What agreement was that, numpty?

Title: Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Post by Avram Horowitz on Jun 10^th, 2012 at 3:53pm

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jun 10^th, 2012 at 3:24pm:

Quote:

You do not know this?

They have stopped many times and israel always does something that causes them to start up again.

The rest of your crap is misrepresenting me again so im ignoring it

Quote:

So, your solution, if i try to murder you, is to let me murder you ???

YOU CAN GO TO HELL, TOO!

What a fine argument you put forth there! you sure told him!

SOB[/quote]

The peace process is mainly from West Bank yes because it is with Fatah that we deal.
They are a better representative for the Palestinians.

Fatah talk to Israel, Abbas has his histories yes but he has been a good successor to Arafat.

Arafat was difficult. He has before too much history and blood on his hands for a lot of us Israelis but we could work with him in the end.

Hamas - no. Their behavior to Israel is aggressive, they are not moderate in their views and they have end destruction of Israel as their goal.

It is much more hard to deal with them. This is why we deal with Fatah. If Fatah controls the Gaza too, then it would be better I think. But in some ways they are long way from peace with themselves.

You will not have a united Palestinians Gaza and West Bank with the two of them in control - they have killed each other, they have threaten each other - there is too much past between them for trust.

Title: Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Post by Avram Horowitz on Jun 10^th, 2012 at 3:54pm

What is the 2 apartment buildings incident you are speaking of?

Title: Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Post by Yadda on Jun 10^th, 2012 at 3:57pm

Avram Horowitz wrote on Jun 10^th, 2012 at 3:49pm:

I have witnessed a gun battle between Fatah and Hamas in Hebron.

We kept out of the way and just monitored as it was beyond Israel security and took place in palestinian control zone.

I dont know if deaths but red crescent ambulances were called because we monitored the radio traffic.

This was 2009.

Avram,

One side was probably running short on ammunition.

Yes ? ;)

[Avram, as an Israeli, you are probably aware that your enemies will use ambulances [which are menat to be kept neutral], for military purposes??? For carrying munitions, and such, yes ???

AND THEN, YOUR ENEMIES WILL ALWAYS SCREAM TO THE WORLD MEDIA, WHEN ISRAEL DESTROYS THOSE MIS-USED NEUTRAL FACILITIES, BEING USED TO FACILITATE THEIR FIGHTING CAPABILITY ? ]

Title: Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Post by Spot of Borg on Jun 10^th, 2012 at 4:00pm

Avram Horowitz wrote on Jun 10^th, 2012 at 3:54pm:

What is the 2 apartment buildings incident you are speaking of?

It was prolly an example. I would have been referring to the ones you told me about. I will answer you tomorrow if I dont get it done today. Sorry running out of time here.

SOB

Title: Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Post by Avram Horowitz on Jun 10^th, 2012 at 4:02pm

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jun 10^th, 2012 at 4:00pm:

Avram Horowitz wrote on Jun 10^th, 2012 at 3:54pm:

What is the 2 apartment buildings incident you are speaking of?

It was prolly an example. I would have been referring to the ones you told me about. I will answer you tomorrow if I dont get it done today. Sorry running out of time here.

SOB

I thought it may be the ones I said.

Those apartments buildings were not response to normal rocket fire - but direct attack on my unit and we called in air response in Cast Lead.

It is not same situations.
Very different.

Title: Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Post by Soren on Jun 10^th, 2012 at 4:09pm

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jun 10^th, 2012 at 2:14pm:

Or mebbe because it was unfair - unconditional right of return for all Arabs with the slightest kinship with those who left in 1948.

But I know you don't understand.

Title: Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Post by Spot of Borg on Jun 10^th, 2012 at 4:27pm

Okay I didnt have to go out afterall.

Quote:

The peace process is mainly from West Bank yes because it is with Fatah that we deal.
They are a better representative for the Palestinians.

And yet you keep a military presence and build settlements there.

Are the prisoners in yur jail from west bank gaza or both?

Quote:

Hamas - no. Their behavior to Israel is aggressive, they are not moderate in their views and they have end destruction of Israel as their goal.

I am going to look this up again tomorrow but I want your opinions. Why do you say this? What have they said to israel? When did they say it? Long ago or just last week? I cant imagine that 5million ppl are stupid. They know you have much more might than them. They cant hope to take israel. I expect israel is provoking them. Perhaps by refusing to discuss peace or to let the prisoners go.

Quote:

You will not have a united Palestinians Gaza and West Bank with the two of them in control - they have killed each other, they have threaten each other - there is too much past between them for trust.

you just never know if israel plays fairly anything could happen. What do you think will happen?

Quote:

Or mebbe because it was unfair - unconditional right of return for all Arabs with the slightest kinship with those who left in 1948.

We have not addressed that here so far. Its pretty off topic i think but anyway if you are going to make an effort to be civil I will play. Cant we compare that to the displaced aboriginals? Now we are giving them 17% of australia to make up for past injustices. Is israel prepared to make up for past injustices?

Quote:

But I know you don't understand.

Oops. Silly me. Thought you were being civil. Guess you are just too ~~stupid~~ brilliant to be capable.

SOB

Title: Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Post by freediver on Jun 10^th, 2012 at 6:19pm

Quote:

They have stopped many times and israel always does something that causes them to start up again.

You got it backwards again Spot.

Quote:

This seems to be the attitude of israel. Someone sends a rocket that doesnt kill anyone

Spot, the impotence of the Muslims is not the same thing as being benign. If they don't kill anyone the first time, who is to say they will keep missing? Only an idiot would give them a second chance at it. If someone started shooting at you, would you respond with "It's OK, you missed, no harm no foul"?

Quote:

Disproportionate and not a good way to make peace.

Again Spot, whether it is proportionate depends on the facts, not you making stuff up.

Quote:

What is the 2 apartment buildings incident you are speaking of?

Spot likes to just make it up as he goes along. You are not allowed to ask him about the details or he gets angry with you for tricking him and pestering him over trivial details.

Quote:

It was prolly an example.

You mean, you made it up Spot?

Quote:

I cant imagine that 5million ppl are stupid

.

;D

Quote:

They know you have much more might than them. They cant hope to take israel.

Abu and Falah don't seem to know this, and they should be able to see things fairly objectively from this distance.

Title: Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Post by Gist on Jun 10^th, 2012 at 6:39pm

Yadda wrote on Jun 10^th, 2012 at 2:20pm:

Gist wrote on Jun 10^th, 2012 at 11:20am:

Fine. Rockets are launched from apartment buildings so you blow up the buildings knowing that there are innocent civilians in there.

Why stop there? >:(

It's still completely unacceptable.

So wiping out a population is acceptable? Men, women, children, everyone?

You've become what you hate. You are arguing that Hitler was quite justified in exterminating Jews. That his death camps were necessary. Do you also wear the swaztika? You may as well.

Title: Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Post by Soren on Jun 10^th, 2012 at 7:06pm

Gist wrote on Jun 10^th, 2012 at 6:39pm:

Yadda wrote on Jun 10^th, 2012 at 2:20pm:

Gist wrote on Jun 10^th, 2012 at 11:20am:

Fine. Rockets are launched from apartment buildings so you blow up the buildings knowing that there are innocent civilians in there.

Why stop there? >:(

It's still completely unacceptable.

So wiping out a population is acceptable? Men, women, children, everyone?

That's the Muslimo-fascist objective for Israel. Israel is an actual, real, functioning country. It is a UN member state.

Yet the fascists want it to be obliterated. And you, on the sidelines, are encouraging and facilitating that goal. You fvckers should be ashamed. You are baying for the destruction on a member of the UN.

But you aren't ashamed. If shame smacked you in the forehead you would bloody know what it was.i

Title: Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Post by Gist on Jun 10^th, 2012 at 8:47pm

Soren wrote on Jun 10^th, 2012 at 7:06pm:

No... actually if you care to read what I wrote I think you'd find I was calling for Israelis NOT to become that which they hate. NOT to become terrorists and murderers. NOT to become genocidal maniacs.

But you're so amazingly fookin' thick that of course you fail to understand.

Title: Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Post by Spot of Borg on Jun 11^th, 2012 at 7:33am

Gist wrote on Jun 10^th, 2012 at 8:47pm:

Soren wrote on Jun 10^th, 2012 at 7:06pm:

Watch out they will start calling you a muslim next and quote you out of context.

SOB

Title: Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Post by freediver on Jun 11^th, 2012 at 9:23am

Spot did you make up that story about the apartment buildings?

Title: Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Post by Spot of Borg on Jun 11^th, 2012 at 9:35am

freediver wrote on Jun 11^th, 2012 at 9:23am:

Spot did you make up that story about the apartment buildings?

Yes freediver. I made it up and avram believed me! He now thinks he called down an airstrike on 2 large apartment buildings in gaza because there was a sniper firing on him. Yup. Sorry. My fault. I told him that.

SOB

Title: Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Post by Soren on Jun 11^th, 2012 at 12:06pm

Gist wrote on Jun 10^th, 2012 at 6:39pm:

Yadda wrote on Jun 10^th, 2012 at 2:20pm:

Gist wrote on Jun 10^th, 2012 at 11:20am:

Fine. Rockets are launched from apartment buildings so you blow up the buildings knowing that there are innocent civilians in there.

Why stop there? >:(

It's still completely unacceptable.

So wiping out a population is acceptable? Men, women, children, everyone?

They are not doing any of that.

You emotionlly incontinent hysterics start out with a completely over the top premise and then of course can take two easy steps to Hitler and genocide and all that baloney.

Israel left Gaza. Hamas is shooting at Israeli civilians from Gaza. From apartment buildings, from behind schools and kindies. What would you do? Just let them keep shooting? What Israeli response to the rockets would please you?

Title: Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Post by Spot of Borg on Jun 11^th, 2012 at 12:09pm

Quote:

What Israeli response to the rockets would please you?

an attempt @ peace negotiations. a proper serious attempt

SOB

Title: Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Post by freediver on Jun 11^th, 2012 at 3:01pm

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jun 11^th, 2012 at 9:35am:

freediver wrote on Jun 11^th, 2012 at 9:23am:

Spot did you make up that story about the apartment buildings?

Spot, this is what you said:

Quote:

Fortunately for you Avram knew what the real story was. That doesn't mean you didn't just make it up as you went along.

Title: Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Post by Spot of Borg on Jun 11^th, 2012 at 3:08pm

You obviously have never come across sarcasm before. Well it doesnt matter since i wasnt talking to you and avram knew what i meant.

SOB

Title: Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Post by freediver on Jun 11^th, 2012 at 3:12pm

So you were just pretending to be ignorant? I admit it is hard for me to tell.

Title: Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Post by Spot of Borg on Jun 11^th, 2012 at 3:15pm

Quote:

I admit it is hard for me to tell.

Not very perceptive are you

SOB

Title: Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Post by freediver on Jun 11^th, 2012 at 3:32pm

Was this bit sarcasm? You seemed to believe it at the time:

Quote:

Is it made up stories like this on which you base your perception of the Israel/palestine conflict?

Title: Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Post by falah on Jun 12^th, 2012 at 7:24am

Most Germans consider Israel aggressive: Poll

Germans have become markedly more critical of Israel over the past three years, with 59 percent describing it as aggressive, a new survey says.

A similar survey in 2009 found 49 percent of Germans considered Israel aggressive.

The German Forsa institute conducted the 2012 poll by telephone from May 15 to 18 among a sample of 1,000 adults.

The survey found that 70 percent of Germans also agree with the statement that Israel pursues its interests without consideration for other nations. Three years ago, 59 percent agreed.

On April 4, German Nobel laureate in literature Gunter Grass published a poem calling Israel a threat to world peace and criticizing Western hypocrisy over Israel’s nuclear arsenal.

In the poem, entitled "What Must Be Said," which was published in Germany's Suddeutsche Zeitung, Grass expressed concern over the consequences of Israel’s threats to attack Iran.

Israel is the sole possessor of the nuclear weapons in the Middle East and it has never allowed inspections of its nuclear facilities nor has it joined the Non-Proliferation Treaty (NPT) based on its policy of nuclear ambiguity.

According to a survey conducted in 2011 by the Berlin-based Friedrich Ebert Foundation, more than 50 percent of Europeans believe Israel is the most serious threat to global security.

http://www.presstv.com/detail/2012/06/11/245695/most-germans-think-israel-aggressiv/

Title: Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Post by Avram Horowitz on Jun 12^th, 2012 at 8:30am

When my family receives a Letter apology from the German people for my grandparents treatment in camps by them, then can they comment on the affairs of my country.

Title: Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Post by falah on Jun 12^th, 2012 at 8:37am

Avram Horowitz wrote on Jun 12^th, 2012 at 8:30am:

When my family receives a Letter apology from the German people for my grandparents treatment in camps by them, then can they comment on the affairs of my country.

The Government of the Federal Republic of Germany (West Germany until 1990) offered official apologies for Germany's role in the Holocaust. Additionally, German leaders have continuously expressed repentance, most notably when former Chancellor Willy Brandt fell on his knees in front of a Holocaust memorial in the Warsaw Ghetto, also known as the Warschauer Kniefall in 1970. Germany has also paid extensive reparations, including nearly $70 billion to the state of Israel. It has given $15 billion to Holocaust survivors and will continue to compensate them until 2015. Additionally, the government of Germany coordinated an effort to reach a settlement with German companies that had used slave labor during the war; the companies will pay $1.7 billion to victims. Germany also established a National Holocaust Memorial Museum in Berlin for looted property.

Title: Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Post by adamant on Jun 12^th, 2012 at 9:03am

falah wrote on Jun 12^th, 2012 at 8:37am:

Avram Horowitz wrote on Jun 12^th, 2012 at 8:30am:

When my family receives a Letter apology from the German people for my grandparents treatment in camps by them, then can they comment on the affairs of my country.

Do you think the Muslims should pay compensation for the Hundreds of Millions of people they killed during their bloody history. Will they pay for all the booty they stole. Wada ya reckon, two chances?

Title: Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Post by falah on Jun 12^th, 2012 at 9:33am

It is odd how Avram, Freeliar, and Adamant all start their first posts of the day within a few minutes of each other.

Freeliar, will you admit to owning the Zionist sock puppets?

Title: Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Post by Spot of Borg on Jun 12^th, 2012 at 9:38am

falah wrote on Jun 12^th, 2012 at 9:33am:

It is odd how Avram, Freeliar, and Adamant all start their first posts of the day within a few minutes of each other.

Freeliar, will you admit to owning the Zionist sock puppets?

I havent spoken to adamant but i really dont think avram is freediver. He has a lot of socks though.

SOB

Title: Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Post by Avram Horowitz on Jun 12^th, 2012 at 9:54am

My grandparents were in Camps and never receive a apology from Germany.

Germany have lost the right to comment on my country.
We have suffered enough from them.

Title: Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Post by Gist on Jun 12^th, 2012 at 12:13pm

Soren wrote on Jun 11^th, 2012 at 12:06pm:

I already answered that Soren in a post to FD. I put it that Israel needs to acknowledge that there is no acceptable defense against those who would use civilians as shields. So talk to them. Engage them in discussion. While they are talking, they are not firing rockets which, after all, is the point isn't it?

Title: Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Post by Spot of Borg on Jun 12^th, 2012 at 12:17pm

Avram Horowitz wrote on Jun 12^th, 2012 at 9:54am:

My grandparents were in Camps and never receive a apology from Germany.

Germany have lost the right to comment on my country.
We have suffered enough from them.

so forever after the germans are scum? you dont talk to them because some of their ancestors persecuted some of your ppl? Anyone in the world has a right to comment on injustices and atrocities.

SOB

Title: Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Post by freediver on Jun 12^th, 2012 at 12:23pm

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jun 12^th, 2012 at 9:38am:

falah wrote on Jun 12^th, 2012 at 9:33am:

It is odd how Avram, Freeliar, and Adamant all start their first posts of the day within a few minutes of each other.

Freeliar, will you admit to owning the Zionist sock puppets?

I havent spoken to adamant but i really dont think avram is freediver. He has a lot of socks though.

SOB

Aye. You can't trust those sneaky Jews can you Spot?

Title: Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Post by freediver on Jun 12^th, 2012 at 12:26pm

Gist wrote on Jun 12^th, 2012 at 12:13pm:

Soren wrote on Jun 11^th, 2012 at 12:06pm:

Actually, I have seen a a video of a Palestinian man talking to God and firing rockets at the same time. It was rather short. They may be silly, but I doubt that talking to someone who is shooting at you would confuse them long enough to resolve the situation.

falah wrote on Jun 12^th, 2012 at 9:33am:

It is odd how Avram, Freeliar, and Adamant all start their first posts of the day within a few minutes of each other.

Freeliar, will you admit to owning the Zionist sock puppets?

Don't be silly Falah. Why would I admit to owning Zionist sock puppets?

Title: Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Post by Gist on Jun 12^th, 2012 at 12:33pm

freediver wrote on Jun 12^th, 2012 at 12:26pm:

Agreed. There's no talking to madmen.

But the madman got his rocket from someone and that person would likely be more rational. They're not all loonies! Not only that, he supplies the rockets.

Title: Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Post by Baronvonrort on Jun 12^th, 2012 at 12:59pm

Gist wrote on Jun 12^th, 2012 at 12:13pm:

I put it that Israel needs to acknowledge that there is no acceptable defense against those who would use civilians as shields. So talk to them. Engage them in discussion. While they are talking, they are not firing rockets which, after all, is the point isn't it?

Is the use of human shields considered a war crime?
Is firing rockets from civilian apartment buildings a war crime?
Are you saying that Israel should not respoind when the other side does the occasional war crime?

Why do the leftards ignore the war crimes done by Israel's enemies?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FMIi7L1fbUU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gyHQFyO_fu4

Title: Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Post by Spot of Borg on Jun 12^th, 2012 at 1:06pm

Why does israel not want peace?

SOB

Title: Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Post by Baronvonrort on Jun 12^th, 2012 at 1:16pm

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jun 12^th, 2012 at 1:06pm:

Why does israel not want peace?

SOB

It is the muslims who dont want peace you ignorant retard.

Here is an Egyptian cleric telling you why the jews are hated, there are subtitles for dole bludgers like you who cannot afford a $15 set of speakers.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_X8dhrzQCHY

Title: Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Post by Gist on Jun 12^th, 2012 at 1:48pm

Baronvonrort wrote on Jun 12^th, 2012 at 12:59pm:

How does becoming a war criminal yourself justify your position? Become a war criminal and you just make the other side's position equal to your own and therefore just as acceptable.

An eye for an eye is a stupid code to follow. By following it you eventually get to the point where nazi extermination camps are quite acceptable and even reasonable. Is that what Israel wants? I'd hope not.

Title: Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Post by gizmo_2655 on Jun 12^th, 2012 at 1:53pm

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jun 12^th, 2012 at 1:06pm:

Why does israel not want peace?

SOB

They DO...they just won't commit national suicide to get it...

Title: Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Post by Soren on Jun 12^th, 2012 at 1:56pm

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jun 12^th, 2012 at 1:06pm:

Why does israel not want peace?

SOB

I think it's for the same reasons half of your cat's face is missing.

Title: Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Post by Gist on Jun 12^th, 2012 at 2:01pm

Soren wrote on Jun 12^th, 2012 at 1:56pm:

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jun 12^th, 2012 at 1:06pm:

Why does israel not want peace?

SOB

I think it's for the same reasons half of your cat's face is missing.

And your nose.

Title: Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Post by falah on Jun 12^th, 2012 at 2:07pm

gizmo_2655 wrote on Jun 12^th, 2012 at 1:53pm:

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jun 12^th, 2012 at 1:06pm:

Why does israel not want peace?

SOB

They DO...they just won't commit national suicide to get it...

Do they? Is that why Israel has rejected every peace deal? Only one Israeli pm came close to making peace, and he was assassinated for crazy Jews for his effort.

Title: Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Post by Soren on Jun 12^th, 2012 at 2:11pm

Gist wrote on Jun 12^th, 2012 at 2:01pm:

Soren wrote on Jun 12^th, 2012 at 1:56pm:

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jun 12^th, 2012 at 1:06pm:

Why does israel not want peace?

SOB

I think it's for the same reasons half of your cat's face is missing.

And your nose.

SOB,
the answer to your question - Why does israel not want peace? - is: NOSEPIECE!!
It's that little peice of metal (It's always something simple, innit, SOB). Phew!! Now we know, thanks to Git. Thanks, Git!

Title: Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Post by gizmo_2655 on Jun 12^th, 2012 at 2:11pm

falah wrote on Jun 12^th, 2012 at 2:07pm:

gizmo_2655 wrote on Jun 12^th, 2012 at 1:53pm:

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jun 12^th, 2012 at 1:06pm:

Why does israel not want peace?

SOB

They DO...they just won't commit national suicide to get it...

Do they? Is that why Israel has rejected every peace deal? Only one Israeli pm came close to making peace, and he was assassinated for crazy Jews for his effort.

Yep, that's why

Title: Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Post by Spot of Borg on Jun 12^th, 2012 at 2:46pm

Baronvonrort wrote on Jun 12^th, 2012 at 1:16pm:

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jun 12^th, 2012 at 1:06pm:

Why does israel not want peace?

SOB

We are talking about israel and palestinians. Did you type in the wrong thread?

SOB

Title: Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Post by Spot of Borg on Jun 12^th, 2012 at 2:47pm

Soren wrote on Jun 12^th, 2012 at 1:56pm:

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jun 12^th, 2012 at 1:06pm:

Why does israel not want peace?

SOB

I think it's for the same reasons half of your cat's face is missing.

Ahhh the brilliant voice of intelligence. . . . .

SOB

Title: Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Post by Soren on Jun 12^th, 2012 at 3:55pm

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jun 12^th, 2012 at 2:47pm:

Soren wrote on Jun 12^th, 2012 at 1:56pm:

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jun 12^th, 2012 at 1:06pm:

Why does israel not want peace?

SOB

I think it's for the same reasons half of your cat's face is missing.

Ahhh the brilliant voice of intelligence. . . . .

SOB

Well, it's a damn sight more intelligent than your stupid question. ANy answer to your stupid questions is bound to be more intelligent than the question, by definition.

I have a question like "Why does israel not want peace?" for you:

" SOB, why don't you stop beating your ~~wife~~ meat?"

Be honest now.

Title: Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Post by Spot of Borg on Jun 12^th, 2012 at 4:03pm

So. Have we settled why israel doesnt want peace yet?

imo its because they want to carry on with their atrocities.

SOB

Title: Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Post by Gist on Jun 12^th, 2012 at 4:03pm

Soren wrote on Jun 12^th, 2012 at 3:55pm:

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jun 12^th, 2012 at 2:47pm:

Soren wrote on Jun 12^th, 2012 at 1:56pm:

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jun 12^th, 2012 at 1:06pm:

Why does israel not want peace?

SOB

I think it's for the same reasons half of your cat's face is missing.

Ahhh the brilliant voice of intelligence. . . . .

SOB

Soren you fooking idiot, you are amazingly thick.

Title: Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Post by gizmo_2655 on Jun 12^th, 2012 at 5:50pm

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jun 12^th, 2012 at 4:03pm:

So. Have we settled why israel doesnt want peace yet?

imo its because they want to carry on with their atrocities.

SOB

And you're 'imo' would be 100% wrong...Israel DOES want peace...it's the Pally's' that don't...

Title: Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Post by freediver on Jun 12^th, 2012 at 5:57pm

Lets look at our Muslim and Jew members as a guide. On the one hand we have Avram who has experienced the conflict first hand and who has expressed a desire for peace, for a two state solution, and who has actually demonstrated a willingness to not respond to violence from the other side in an effort to achieve peace. On the other hand we have Falah and Abu, who are busy predicting the total destruction of Israel, who use it's imminent demise as a reason for Palestinians not to surrender in a war they lost decades ago, and who call for the mass forced migration of Israeli Jews out of the area.

Despite the obvious differences in standards, we have people like Spot and puppet who think it is people like Avram who are to blame and who cannot even acknowledge the reality of how the two different sides are approaching the conflict, even when it is right in front of them in black and white.

If they are anything to go by, it is the Muslims that are the problem. Given that the palestinian authorities could not even control their own people if they wanted to, it is hard to see peace in the near future.

Title: Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Post by Spot of Borg on Jun 12^th, 2012 at 5:58pm

gizmo_2655 wrote on Jun 12^th, 2012 at 5:50pm:

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jun 12^th, 2012 at 4:03pm:

So. Have we settled why israel doesnt want peace yet?

imo its because they want to carry on with their atrocities.

SOB

And you're 'imo' would be 100% wrong...Israel DOES want peace...it's the Pally's' that don't...

Title: Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Post by freediver on Jun 12^th, 2012 at 6:25pm

Gist wrote on Jun 12^th, 2012 at 1:48pm:

Baronvonrort wrote on Jun 12^th, 2012 at 12:59pm:

You think the Nazis were merely taking an eye for an eye? Hitler was much closer to Muhammed. Muhammed had to slaughter a lot of Jews before they finally learnt to welcome him with open arms.

Title: Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Post by gizmo_2655 on Jun 12^th, 2012 at 6:51pm

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jun 12^th, 2012 at 5:58pm:

gizmo_2655 wrote on Jun 12^th, 2012 at 5:50pm:

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jun 12^th, 2012 at 4:03pm:

So. Have we settled why israel doesnt want peace yet?

imo its because they want to carry on with their atrocities.

SOB

And you're 'imo' would be 100% wrong...Israel DOES want peace...it's the Pally's' that don't...

Hmm, and??

Title: Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Post by Spot of Borg on Jun 12^th, 2012 at 6:53pm

gizmo_2655 wrote on Jun 12^th, 2012 at 6:51pm:

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jun 12^th, 2012 at 5:58pm:

gizmo_2655 wrote on Jun 12^th, 2012 at 5:50pm:

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jun 12^th, 2012 at 4:03pm:

So. Have we settled why israel doesnt want peace yet?

imo its because they want to carry on with their atrocities.

SOB

And you're 'imo' would be 100% wrong...Israel DOES want peace...it's the Pally's' that don't...

Hmm, and??

Think they will accept that? Why are they trying to build 800 more settlements in west bank?

SOB

Title: Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Post by Avram Horowitz on Jun 12^th, 2012 at 7:10pm

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jun 12^th, 2012 at 1:06pm:

Why does israel not want peace?

SOB

We withdraw all forces from Gaza because we were tired of waiting for Palestinians to agree among themselves.
You think we would do that if we did not want peace?

Title: Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Post by gizmo_2655 on Jun 12^th, 2012 at 9:11pm

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jun 12^th, 2012 at 5:58pm:

gizmo_2655 wrote on Jun 12^th, 2012 at 5:50pm:

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jun 12^th, 2012 at 4:03pm:

So. Have we settled why israel doesnt want peace yet?

imo its because they want to carry on with their atrocities.

SOB

And you're 'imo' would be 100% wrong...Israel DOES want peace...it's the Pally's' that don't...

Round and round we go.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/06/05/us-palestinians-abbas-idUSBRE8540YN20120605

Think they will accept that? Why are they trying to build 800 more settlements in west bank?

SOB

[quote](Reuters) - Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas urged Israel on Tuesday to accept a two-state solution based on 1967 borders, warning that the opportunity "may not stay on the table for a long time" given the political upheavals caused by the Arab Spring.

"■The Palestinian leadership is fixated on attempting to press foreign governments and the UN to recognize a unilaterally declared Palestinian state within the “1967 borders.” Indeed, this campaign appeared to have some initial successes in December 2010 when both Argentina and Brazil decided to recognize a Palestinian state within what they described as the “1967 borders.”
■But such borders do not exist and have no basis in history, law, or fact. The only line that ever existed was the 1949 armistice demarcation line, based on the ceasefire lines of the Israeli and Arab armies pending agreement on permanent peace."

Title: Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Post by Soren on Jun 12^th, 2012 at 10:15pm

freediver wrote on Jun 12^th, 2012 at 5:57pm:

Rabbi Goldberg and Mullah Jee have the following conversation:

Rabbi: I don't like Muslims.

Mullah: Why not?

Rabbi: You brought down the twin towers, that's why!

Mullah: Every single Muslim can't be blamed.

Rabbi: Syrian, Libyan, Palestinian, Tunisian, Moroccan,Pakistanis doesn't matter, you're all the same.

Mullah: Well I don't like Jews!

Rabbi: Why not?

Mullah: Jews sank the Titanic that's why!

Rabbi: Jews didn't sink the Titanic you idiot, it was an iceberg!

Mullah: Iceberg, Goldberg, Greenberg, Rosenberg, doesn't matter, you're all the same.

Title: Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Post by Spot of Borg on Jun 13^th, 2012 at 7:14am

Avram Horowitz wrote on Jun 12^th, 2012 at 7:10pm:

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jun 12^th, 2012 at 1:06pm:

Why does israel not want peace?

SOB

We withdraw all forces from Gaza because we were tired of waiting for Palestinians to agree among themselves.
You think we would do that if we did not want peace?

Have you stopped the building? Have you released the prisoners? Are you participating in the peace talks?

SOB

Title: Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Post by Spot of Borg on Jun 13^th, 2012 at 7:17am

Quote:

■But such borders do not exist and have no basis in history, law, or fact. The only line that ever existed was the 1949 armistice demarcation line, based on the ceasefire lines of the Israeli and Arab armies pending agreement on permanent peace."

Obviously they do exist and somebody is trying to ignore them. Israel knows fulkl well what is meant but 1967 borders.

SOB

Title: Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Post by Spot of Borg on Jun 13^th, 2012 at 7:18am

Quote:

Mullah: Iceberg, Goldberg, Greenberg, Rosenberg, doesn't matter, you're all the same.

That was actually funny.

SOB

Title: Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Post by Soren on Jun 13^th, 2012 at 9:31am

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jun 13^th, 2012 at 7:14am:

Avram Horowitz wrote on Jun 12^th, 2012 at 7:10pm:

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jun 12^th, 2012 at 1:06pm:

Why does israel not want peace?

SOB

We withdraw all forces from Gaza because we were tired of waiting for Palestinians to agree among themselves.
You think we would do that if we did not want peace?

Have you stopped the building? Have you released the prisoners? Are you participating in the peace talks?

SOB

They are not building anything in Gaza.
A thousand prisoners were released for Gilal.
Peace talks would be meaningful with people who accepted Israel's right to exist. Hamas doesn't.

Title: Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Post by Spot of Borg on Jun 13^th, 2012 at 9:35am

Soren wrote on Jun 13^th, 2012 at 9:31am:

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jun 13^th, 2012 at 7:14am:

Avram Horowitz wrote on Jun 12^th, 2012 at 7:10pm:

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jun 12^th, 2012 at 1:06pm:

Why does israel not want peace?

SOB

We withdraw all forces from Gaza because we were tired of waiting for Palestinians to agree among themselves.
You think we would do that if we did not want peace?

Have you stopped the building? Have you released the prisoners? Are you participating in the peace talks?

SOB

They are not building anything in Gaza.
A thousand prisoners were released for Gilal.
Peace talks would be meaningful with people who accepted Israel's right to exist. Hamas doesn't.

Settlements are being built in west bank though.

When is someone going to answer my question about the prisoners? Where are they from? Gaza? West bank? Both? Avram you should know.

SOB

Title: Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Post by Baronvonrort on Jun 13^th, 2012 at 12:36pm

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jun 13^th, 2012 at 7:17am:

Quote:

Obviously they do exist and somebody is trying to ignore them. Israel knows fulkl well what is meant but 1967 borders.

SOB

The 1967 borders-

Gaza was controlled by Egypt who lost Gaza to Israel in the 1967 6 day war.

The west bank was controlled by Jordan who lost the West Bank to Israel in the 1967 6 day war.

If they go back to 1967 borders then they have to give the west bank back to Jordan and return Gaza to Egypt.

The black september massacre shows it is ok for muslims to kill Palestinians yet if a jew kills a muslim then the muslims squeal like stuck pigs.

Title: Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Post by Baronvonrort on Jun 13^th, 2012 at 12:46pm

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jun 12^th, 2012 at 2:46pm:

Baronvonrort wrote on Jun 12^th, 2012 at 1:16pm:

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jun 12^th, 2012 at 1:06pm:

Why does israel not want peace?

SOB

We are talking about israel and palestinians. Did you type in the wrong thread?

SOB

Israel did take Gaza from Egypt in the 1967 six day war, Gaza was a part of Egypt before Israel took it from them.

Anwar Sadat tried to have peace with Israel after getting defeated in the 1973 war yet he was killed by muslims-
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anwar_Sadat

Title: Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Post by Gist on Jun 13^th, 2012 at 5:02pm

freediver wrote on Jun 12^th, 2012 at 6:25pm:

Gist wrote on Jun 12^th, 2012 at 1:48pm:

Baronvonrort wrote on Jun 12^th, 2012 at 12:59pm:

You think the Nazis were merely taking an eye for an eye? Hitler was much closer to Muhammed. Muhammed had to slaughter a lot of Jews before they finally learnt to welcome him with open arms.

I would have taken you for someone who could read what I actually wrote instead of what they wanted to see. I guess not because I didn't say anywhere about the Nazis taking an eye for an eye.

Quite the opposite. If you go along with taking an eye for an eye then very soon you become a Nazi. If the Israelis don't want to become as Nazis themselves then they need to stop bombing innocent civilians. It's a pretty simple argument.

Title: Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Post by Spot of Borg on Jun 14^th, 2012 at 6:58am

Where are the 100s of prisoners that are being held without trial from? Gaza? West bank?

SOB

Title: Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Post by Spot of Borg on Jun 15^th, 2012 at 1:15pm

Where are the 100s of prisoners that are being held without trial from? Gaza? West bank?

Also Avram - you say you arent in gaza but you are still blockading them

http://www.newsday.com/news/world/aid-groups-ask-israel-lift-gaza-blockade-1.3783510

Quote:

GAZA CITY -- Fifty international aid groups and UN agencies urged Israel Thursday to open Gaza's borders, saying its border blockade violates international law and indiscriminately harms Gaza's 1.6 million people.

The appeal was issued on the fifth anniversary of the imposition of the blockade, triggered by the violent takeover of Gaza by the Islamic militant Hamas in June 2007.

Two years ago, Israel started allowing imports of most consumer goods, but continues to ban virtually all Gaza exports and travel through Israeli crossings.

Israel has said the blockade is meant to prevent Hamas from building up its military arsenal and Gaza militants from carrying out attacks on Israel. The Hamas founding charter calls for the destruction of Israel and over its 25-year history the group has killed hundreds of Israelis in shootings and bombings.

International aid agencies say, however, that the blockade mainly punishes ordinary Gazans by crippling the territory's economy, forcing foreign donors to spend money on humanitarian relief instead of investing in the economy.

"What Gaza needs is real development, but because of the blockade we are obliged to concentrate on humanitarian work," Filippo Grandi, head of the UN Relief and Works Agency, told reporters in Gaza yesterday. Grandi's group is Gaza's biggest foreign agency, supporting some 1.2 million refugees and their descendants in the territory.

Spending on emergency needs, such as food and medicine, does not address fundamental problems, Grandi said. "In fact, it's a waste of money, but a waste we are obliged to make because of the blockade," he added.

He said his agency is running low on funds and, among other things, had to cancel its popular summer camps for tens of thousands of Gaza children.

In its six-decade history in Gaza, the agency's main roles have been supplying refugees with basic food products and operating schools.

One-third of Gaza's labor force is unemployed, and exports are at only 5 percent of what they were in 2007, he said.

The easing of import restrictions spurred some growth, but mainly because Gaza started from a very low baseline, Grandi said, noting that the per capita GDP in 2011 remained at 10 percent below the 2005 level.

About 60 percent of Gazans are under 18 and youth unemployment stands at 51 percent, according to UN figures.

SOB

Title: Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Post by freediver on Jun 15^th, 2012 at 1:35pm

Spot how would you suggest that Israel handle Hamas?

Title: Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Post by PoliticalPuppet on Jun 15^th, 2012 at 1:37pm

freediver wrote on Jun 15^th, 2012 at 1:35pm:

Spot how would you suggest that Israel handle Hamas?

Recoginise them as a legitimate armed force.

Title: Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Post by Baronvonrort on Jun 15^th, 2012 at 1:40pm

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jun 15^th, 2012 at 1:15pm:

Also Avram - you say you arent in gaza but you are still blockading them

http://www.newsday.com/news/world/aid-groups-ask-israel-lift-gaza-blockade-1.3783510

Quote:

SOB

Egypt has a border with the Gaza strip so why are the Egyptians contributing to this blockade of Gaza?

Why do you single Israel out when Egypt is also contributing to the blockade of Gaza?

Are you a muslim SOB or do you just parrot Islamic propaganda, why is it ok for muslim Egypt to blockade Gaza without criticism?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blockade_of_the_Gaza_Strip

Title: Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Post by Yadda on Jun 15^th, 2012 at 2:15pm

Gist wrote on Jun 10^th, 2012 at 6:39pm:

Yadda wrote on Jun 10^th, 2012 at 2:20pm:

Gist wrote on Jun 10^th, 2012 at 11:20am:

Fine. Rockets are launched from apartment buildings so you blow up the buildings knowing that there are innocent civilians in there.

Why stop there? >:(

It's still completely unacceptable.

Hey gist,

We [moslems and non-moslems] cannot live together peacefully, because of the nature of ISLAM.

Personally, i would choose to FORCEFULLY segregate moslems and non-moslems.

That would be my choice.

But that would >> NOT << not be the choice of rightly guided moslems.

Their intent is to invade all non-moslem lands and to enslave or to 'righteously' kill, all 'unbelievers'.

+++

gist......

Quote:

So wiping out a population is acceptable? Men, women, children, everyone?

Sure it is.

Moslems know that genocide is acceptable.

ISLAMIC doctrine >> DECLARES << that it is acceptable.

"....the death of those who are killed for the cause of God gives more impetus to the cause, which continues to thrive on their blood."
ISLAMIC scholar, Sayyid Qutb, .......A moslem, promoting, justifying, ISLAM's murder of those who do not believe, as they believe.

gist,
If the death of a whole people served ISLAM's cause, moslems would commit genocide upon a whole people [and, moslems >> DO << intend to commit genocide upon a whole people].

And moslems know that they, moslems, are righteous, in seeking to commit genocide upon a whole people.

>> MAINSTREAM << ISLAMIC DOCTRINE ---->
Google;
day of judgement will not come until muslims fight, and kill, ALL jews

+++

In the Koran, Allah has declared, that >> ALL << properly guided moslems are righteous people - BECAUSE THEY ARE MOSLEMS.

"Ye [moslems] are the best of peoples, evolved for mankind, enjoining what is right, forbidding what is wrong, and believing in Allah.......[and it is the 'unbelievers' who] are perverted transgressors."
Koran 3.110

'Moslems] are the best of peoples,' especially when they are killing 'unbelievers' for Allah.

"Allah hath purchased of the believers their persons and their goods; for theirs (in return) is the garden (of Paradise): they fight in His cause, and slay and are slain:...."
Koran 9.111

"Allah's Apostle was asked, "What is the best deed?" He replied, "To believe in Allah and His Apostle (Muhammad). The questioner then asked, "What is the next (in goodness)? He replied, "To participate in Jihad (religious fighting) in Allah's Cause." "
hadithsunnah/bukhari/ #001.002.026

"A man came to the Prophet and asked, "A man fights for war booty; another fights for fame and a third fights for showing off; which of them fights in Allah's Cause?" The Prophet said, "He who fights that Allah's Word (i.e. Islam) should be superior, fights in Allah's Cause." "
hadithsunnah/bukhari/ #004.052.065
hadithsunnah/bukhari/ #004.052.080ii

Title: Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Post by Yadda on Jun 15^th, 2012 at 2:25pm

Baronvonrort wrote on Jun 15^th, 2012 at 1:40pm:

Are you a muslim SOB or do you just parrot Islamic propaganda.... ???

That is a worthy question Baron.

But no straight answer is forthcoming, so far.

Q.
Is SOB a gay moslem ???

A person who is trying desperately to 'maintain' a relationship with her [moslem] community ?

A person who's [moslem] sympathies remain with the 'Palestinians' ?

Title: Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Post by Yadda on Jun 15^th, 2012 at 2:53pm

Yadda wrote on Jun 15^th, 2012 at 2:15pm:

We [moslems and non-moslems] cannot live together peacefully, because of the nature of ISLAM.

Personally, i would choose to FORCEFULLY segregate moslems and non-moslems.

That would be my choice.

But that would >> NOT << not be the choice of rightly guided moslems.

Their intent is to invade all non-moslem lands and to enslave or to 'righteously' kill, all 'unbelievers'.

We [non-moslems] cannot change the intent of moslems towards us, unless we can change the meaning of the Koran.

And we [non-moslems] cannot do that.

Because moslems consider the Koran to be an immutable and inerrant document, authored by their god, Allah.

+++

"......the curse of Allah is on those without Faith."
Koran 2.089

"....Lo! Allah is an enemy to those who reject Faith."
Koran 2.98

"....those who reject Allah have no protector."
Koran 47.008
v. 8-11

"Muhammad is the messenger of Allah. And those with him are hard against the disbelievers and merciful among themselves....."
Koran 48.29

"O ye who believe! Fight those of the disbelievers who are near to you, and let them find harshness in you, and know that Allah is with those who keep their duty (unto Him)."
Koran 9.123

"Allah hath purchased of the believers their persons and their goods; for theirs (in return) is the garden (of Paradise): they fight in His cause, and slay and are slain:...."
Koran 9.111

"Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued. "
Koran 9.29

"O ye who believe! what is the matter with you, that, when ye are asked to go forth in the cause of Allah, ye cling heavily to the earth? Do ye prefer the life of this world to the Hereafter? But little is the comfort of this life, as compared with the Hereafter.
Unless ye go forth, He will punish you with a grievous penalty, and put others in your place; but Him ye would not harm in the least. For Allah hath power over all things."
Koran 9.38, 39

And non, and on, and on it goes.......

ISLAM mandates a never ending enmity and hatred, from moslems, towards those who choose not to accept ISLAM [to towards those are not moslems].

WE [non-moslems] WILL NEVER, EVER, CHANGE THAT ASPECT OF ISLAM.

All that we non-moslems can do, is to FORCEFULLY segregate moslems and non-moslems.

We can allow moslems to live among themselves.

But for our own safety, we cannot allow moslems to live among us [non-moslems].

Title: Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Post by Spot of Borg on Jun 15^th, 2012 at 2:57pm

Baronvonrort wrote on Jun 15^th, 2012 at 1:40pm:

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jun 15^th, 2012 at 1:15pm:

Also Avram - you say you arent in gaza but you are still blockading them

http://www.newsday.com/news/world/aid-groups-ask-israel-lift-gaza-blockade-1.3783510

Quote:

SOB

Well the article didnt mention egypt. Egypt blockading them isnt any goods either but it doesnt excuse israel.

Meanwhile I see nobody wants to address the topic. All distracting with attempted insults again. Lol so predictable.

Avram will answer me.

SOB

Title: Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Post by Baronvonrort on Jun 15^th, 2012 at 3:10pm

Yadda wrote on Jun 15^th, 2012 at 2:25pm:

Baronvonrort wrote on Jun 15^th, 2012 at 1:40pm:

Are you a muslim SOB or do you just parrot Islamic propaganda.... ???

That is a worthy question Baron.

But no straight answer is forthcoming, so far.

He is unemployed maybe he is just stupid.

Title: Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Post by Baronvonrort on Jun 15^th, 2012 at 3:13pm

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jun 15^th, 2012 at 2:57pm:

Baronvonrort wrote on Jun 15^th, 2012 at 1:40pm:

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jun 15^th, 2012 at 1:15pm:

Also Avram - you say you arent in gaza but you are still blockading them

http://www.newsday.com/news/world/aid-groups-ask-israel-lift-gaza-blockade-1.3783510

Quote:

SOB

Well the article didnt mention egypt. Egypt blockading them isnt any goods either but it doesnt excuse israel.

SOB

So why are you excusing Egypt for blockading Gaza?

It would not be possible to impose a blockade on Gaza without the help of Egypt.

Title: Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Post by Spot of Borg on Jun 15^th, 2012 at 3:17pm

Baronvonrort wrote on Jun 15^th, 2012 at 3:13pm:

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jun 15^th, 2012 at 2:57pm:

Baronvonrort wrote on Jun 15^th, 2012 at 1:40pm:

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jun 15^th, 2012 at 1:15pm:

Also Avram - you say you arent in gaza but you are still blockading them

http://www.newsday.com/news/world/aid-groups-ask-israel-lift-gaza-blockade-1.3783510

Quote:

SOB

Well the article didnt mention egypt. Egypt blockading them isnt any goods either but it doesnt excuse israel.

SOB

So why are you excusing Egypt for blockading Gaza?

It would not be possible to impose a blockade on Gaza without the help of Egypt.

Why are you illiterate? Where did i excuse egypt? Oh i made a typo i meant "good" not "goods". Guess you didnt understand something so simple as a typo. Well now you know. Egypt blockading gaza isnt any good either. It doesnt excuse israel.

SOB

Title: Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Post by freediver on Jun 15^th, 2012 at 10:08pm

Spot can you answer the question? It is easy to criticise Israel, but unless you can suggest a realistic alternative for them it is empty.

bobbythefap1 wrote on Jun 15^th, 2012 at 1:37pm:

freediver wrote on Jun 15^th, 2012 at 1:35pm:

Spot how would you suggest that Israel handle Hamas?

Recoginise them as a legitimate armed force.

Which would mean what? I don't see how official recognition would change their behaviour or change Israel's behaviour towards Hamas.

Title: Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Post by Bertram on Jun 15^th, 2012 at 10:16pm

egypt should have gaza. they are all arabs so its no biggie. then israel can have the west bank. thats fair

Title: Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Post by Spot of Borg on Jun 16^th, 2012 at 5:59am

freediver wrote on Jun 15^th, 2012 at 10:08pm:

Spot can you answer the question? It is easy to criticise Israel, but unless you can suggest a realistic alternative for them it is empty.

bobbythefap1 wrote on Jun 15^th, 2012 at 1:37pm:

freediver wrote on Jun 15^th, 2012 at 1:35pm:

Spot how would you suggest that Israel handle Hamas?

Recoginise them as a legitimate armed force.

Which would mean what? I don't see how official recognition would change their behaviour or change Israel's behaviour towards Hamas.

Sign a peace agreement. Actually stick to a ceasefire. Stop building on westbank. Let the prisoners go.

When is someone going to answer my question?

SOB

Title: Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Post by Andrei.Hicks on Jun 16^th, 2012 at 7:57am

I think people are growing tired of your inability to understand ANYTHING.

You are either pretending or as thick as a brick.

Title: Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Post by Spot of Borg on Jun 16^th, 2012 at 8:27am

Heh well yeah israel considers hamas "terrorists" and so wont deal with them. That is not conducive to peace.

When is someone going to answer my question about the prisoners? Where are they from? Gaza? West bank? Both? Avram you should know.

SOB

Title: Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Post by Andrei.Hicks on Jun 16^th, 2012 at 8:53am

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jun 16^th, 2012 at 8:27am:

You don't exactly 'deal' with terrorists whose stated aim is your destruction.

Title: Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Post by freediver on Jun 16^th, 2012 at 9:44am

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jun 16^th, 2012 at 5:59am:

freediver wrote on Jun 15^th, 2012 at 10:08pm:

Spot can you answer the question? It is easy to criticise Israel, but unless you can suggest a realistic alternative for them it is empty.

bobbythefap1 wrote on Jun 15^th, 2012 at 1:37pm:

freediver wrote on Jun 15^th, 2012 at 1:35pm:

Spot how would you suggest that Israel handle Hamas?

Recoginise them as a legitimate armed force.

Which would mean what? I don't see how official recognition would change their behaviour or change Israel's behaviour towards Hamas.

Sign a peace agreement. Actually stick to a ceasefire. Stop building on westbank. Let the prisoners go.

When is someone going to answer my question?

SOB

That's kind of naive don't you think? What is the point of a peace agreement with an organisation that only exists to destroy you, and that only sees a peace agreement as a chance to organise the next attack? Do you think Hamas would start being nice then?

Title: Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Post by Spot of Borg on Jun 16^th, 2012 at 10:20am

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Jun 16^th, 2012 at 8:53am:

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jun 16^th, 2012 at 8:27am:

You don't exactly 'deal' with terrorists whose stated aim is your destruction.

If hamas is trying to have peace talks israel should talk to them. They are angry (rightly) but how long ago did they last state their aim was to destroy israel? Hmmm? And why did they say it? What did israel do to them to cause them to say it?

SOB

Title: Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Post by falah on Jun 16^th, 2012 at 10:20am

freediver wrote on Jun 16^th, 2012 at 9:44am:

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jun 16^th, 2012 at 5:59am:

freediver wrote on Jun 15^th, 2012 at 10:08pm:

Spot can you answer the question? It is easy to criticise Israel, but unless you can suggest a realistic alternative for them it is empty.

bobbythefap1 wrote on Jun 15^th, 2012 at 1:37pm:

freediver wrote on Jun 15^th, 2012 at 1:35pm:

Spot how would you suggest that Israel handle Hamas?

Recoginise them as a legitimate armed force.

Which would mean what? I don't see how official recognition would change their behaviour or change Israel's behaviour towards Hamas.

Sign a peace agreement. Actually stick to a ceasefire. Stop building on westbank. Let the prisoners go.

When is someone going to answer my question?

SOB

More lies from Freeliar?

Quote:

Hamas Foreign Minister: We Accept Two-State Solution With '67 Borders

Hamas' Deputy Foreign Minister Ghazi Hamad told NPR's Robert Siegel that the Islamic political party has accepted a two-state solution that respects the 1967 borders.

Robert asked Hamad in a very straight forward way: "If Israel were to accept a two-state solution in which Palestine would be in Gaza and the West Bank and have its capital in Jerusalem, is that an acceptable aim that Hamas is striving for or is that in and of itself insufficient because there would still be a state of Israel?"

"Look, we said, frankly, we accept the state and '67 borders. This was mentioned many times and we repeated many times," said Hamad...

http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2011/05/24/136403918/hamas-foreign-minister-we-accept-two-state-solution-with-67-borders

Title: Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Post by freediver on Jun 16^th, 2012 at 10:43am

Does Hamas still have a charter calling for the destruction of Israel?

Title: Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Post by falah on Jun 16^th, 2012 at 11:13am

freediver wrote on Jun 16^th, 2012 at 10:43am:

Does Hamas still have a charter calling for the destruction of Israel?

You make the overthrow of the Israeli regime sound sinister.

I would liken it to the Allies overthrowing the Nazi regime in WWII.

Title: Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Post by freediver on Jun 16^th, 2012 at 11:22am

Quote:

You make the overthrow of the Israeli regime sound sinister.

It is sinister, especially if at the same time you are demanding the Israeli regime sign a peace treaty you concocted.

Perhaps stupid is a better word than sinister. But at least you fooled spot. Well done.

Title: Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Post by Yadda on Jun 16^th, 2012 at 12:52pm

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Jun 16^th, 2012 at 8:53am:

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jun 16^th, 2012 at 8:27am:

Heh well yeah israel considers hamas "terrorists" and so wont deal with them.

That is not conducive to peace.

SOB

You don't exactly 'deal' with terrorists whose stated aim is your destruction.

An Israeli delegation and the Hamas delegation meet, for 'peace' talks.

Israeli delegation; Hello.

Hamas delegation; [silence]

Israeli delegation; We would like to have a cessation of hostilities with Hamas. How can that be a acheived ?

Hamas delegation; Simple. Put down your Zionist weapons. And let Hamas enter Palestine.

Israeli delegation; And then we [the Israeli people] will have peace with Hamas ?

Hamas delegation; Sure.

Israeli delegation; But Hamas will still have its own weapons ?

Hamas delegation; Yes.

Israeli delegation; So how will such a circumstance secure a peace between Hamas the Israeli people ?

Hamas delegation; Sorry, who ?

Israeli delegation; How can we secure a peace between Hamas the Israeli people ?

Hamas delegation; No, sorry. You have it all wrong. You have misunderstood. Hamas will take possession of Palestine. And, after that happens, there will no longer be any conflict with the Israeli people.

Israeli delegation; Then, how will this peace be achieved between Hamas the Israeli people ?

Hamas delegation; Oh that. That is easy. There won't be any conflict between Hamas and the Israeli people, because there will no longer be any Israeli people living, errr, in Palestine. ...Now, when exactly can we both begin to impliment this peace plan ? When are you Jews going to lay down your weapons ? Errr, you do want peace with Hamas, don't you ?

+++

Google;
palestinians, the destruction of israel is our

+++

"If the Arabs (Muslims) put down their weapons today there would be no more violence.
If the Israelis put down their weapons today there would be no more Israel."
Shira Sorko-Ram Maoz Israel newsletter May 2004
cited
http://www.wildolive.co.uk/quotes.htm

IMAGE...

"Why won't those wicked, greedy, Zionists let the Palestinians have just a little more of Palestine ?
Don't the Zionists want peace ???"
/sarc off

Title: Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Post by Spot of Borg on Jun 16^th, 2012 at 12:59pm

freediver wrote on Jun 16^th, 2012 at 11:22am:

Quote:

You make the overthrow of the Israeli regime sound sinister.

you really are stupid if you think israel wants peace @ all. Where exactly did someone "fool" me btw? Hmmmm?

SOB

Title: Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Post by Spot of Borg on Jun 16^th, 2012 at 1:01pm

They want the "1967" borders whatever those are. My guess is they include gaza and west bank.

SOB

Title: Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Post by freediver on Jun 16^th, 2012 at 1:04pm

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jun 16^th, 2012 at 1:01pm:

They want the "1967" borders whatever those are. My guess is they include gaza and west bank.

SOB

Their charter calls for the complete destruction of Israel. What do you think they really want Spot? How is it anything less than naive to think they would settle with small concessions? Do you really think the Israeli-Palestine conflict can be resolved by guessing what people want? How is that any different to simply making stuff up?

Title: Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Post by falah on Jun 16^th, 2012 at 4:02pm

Yadda wrote on Jun 16^th, 2012 at 12:52pm:

Yadda, if I know that the bank holds millions of dollars, and I only steal a couple of grand from it, do you think they will let me off because I didn't steal much?

Title: Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Post by Yadda on Jun 16^th, 2012 at 4:35pm

falah wrote on Jun 16^th, 2012 at 4:02pm:

Yadda, if I know that the bank holds millions of dollars, and I only steal a couple of grand from it, do you think they will let me off because I didn't steal much?

falah,

If someone steals my wallet with $200 in it, and if the police arrest the thief, and they find my wallet [with my name inside], will the police let the thief keep my wallet and money, OR, will the police return my wallet and money, to its proper owner ?i
The land of Israel IS the ancient homeland of the Jewish people.

Everyone knows that.

The Jewish people were dispossessed of their ancient homeland, by moslems, and otehrs.

Everyone knows that.

The Turkish caliphate took possession of and administered what we know as land of Israel [and other lands in the region].

Everyone knows that.

Turkey lost possession of its territories, including the land of Israel, post WWI.

Everyone knows that.

falah,

Q.
Why can't moslems accept that the Jewish people now have their ancient homeland back ?

Q.
Why do moslems insist in persecuting the Jewish people, and denying the Jewish people the right to merely live in what >> is << their own ancient homeland ?

A.
Coz moslems are tight, miserable, mendacious, grouches who have hearts of stone.

e.g.
The moslems won't even take in their own poor people, but make poor moslems live in refugee camps.

<--- AND THAT, IS HOW MEAN MOSLEMS ARE!!!

Title: Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Post by freediver on Jun 16^th, 2012 at 5:46pm

falah wrote on Jun 16^th, 2012 at 4:02pm:

Yadda wrote on Jun 16^th, 2012 at 12:52pm:

Yadda, if I know that the bank holds millions of dollars, and I only steal a couple of grand from it, do you think they will let me off because I didn't steal much?

Falah you are completely missing the point, again. Islam does not actually own any of the land. It is this whole mindset that the graphic is making fun of. Without the whole "how dare Jews have their own country in a Muslim area" issue the problem would have been resolved decades ago. It would have never even started.

Title: Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Post by PoliticalPuppet on Jun 16^th, 2012 at 5:48pm

freediver wrote on Jun 16^th, 2012 at 5:46pm:

falah wrote on Jun 16^th, 2012 at 4:02pm:

Yadda wrote on Jun 16^th, 2012 at 12:52pm:

Yadda, if I know that the bank holds millions of dollars, and I only steal a couple of grand from it, do you think they will let me off because I didn't steal much?

Falah you are completely missing the point, again. Islam does not actually own any of the land. It is this whole mindset that the graphic is making fun of.

Under our corrupt system they do not but what validity does that hold?

Title: Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Post by falah on Jun 16^th, 2012 at 5:53pm

Yadda wrote on Jun 16^th, 2012 at 4:35pm:

The Jewish people were dispossessed of their ancient homeland, by moslems, and otehrs.

Everyone knows that...

Yadda, you have a very poor understanding of Middle East history.

The Jews were expelled from Palestine by the pagan Roman Empire 2000 years ago.

Jews were allowed to return centuries later after Arab Muslims liberated Palestine from the Romans who had become Christian but still hated the Jews.

Christians, Jews and muslims lived together in Palestine under Islamic rule, and their property rights were respected for centuries.

There was no land-stealing done apart from the Christian crusaders who stole land in Palestine for a while.

When the Crusaders were expelled, once again, Muslim, Jews and Christians lived together peacefuly under Islamic rule, and their property rights were respected.

Then, in the 20th century, Zionist Jews invaded Palestine and began stealing land and forcing Christians and Muslims to flee.

Like the Christian crusaders, the Zionist Jews often killed innocent civilians which caused many Christians and Muslims to leave their homes in terror.

The Jews stole land, houses and farms and bulldozed mosques, churches and graveyards to make way for their land stealing.

Yadda, why do Jews have to steal people's homes in order to return to Palestine?

Quote:

The Israeli government adopted in 1950 the Law of Return to facilitate Jewish immigration to Israel and the absorption of Jewish refugees. Israel's Absentees' Property Law of March 1950 transferred the property rights of absentee owners to a government-appointed Custodian of Absentee Property, effectively legalizing the confiscation of lands belonging to the Palestinian refugees who fled or were expelled from the area that became Israel in 1948. It was also used to confiscate the lands of Arab citizens of Israel who "are present inside the state, yet classified in law as 'absent'."[10] The number of "present-absentees" or internally displaced Palestinians from among the 1.2 million Arab citizens of Israel is estimated (in 2001) to be 200,000, or some 20% of the total Palestinian Arab population in Israel.[10] Salman Abu-Sitta estimates that between 1948 and 2003 more than 1,000 square kilometers (390 sq mi) of land was expropriated from Arab citizens of Israel....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Land_Day

Yadda, why did the Zionist Jews need to wipe out 400 Christian and Muslim towns and villages?

Why did Zionist Jews need to force 711,000 out of around 900,000 Christians and Muslims out of occupied Palestine in 1948?

Could it be because the Zionist Jews are greedy grubby land thieves?

Title: Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Post by freediver on Jun 16^th, 2012 at 6:06pm

Quote:

between 1948 and 2003 more than 1,000 square kilometers (390 sq mi) of land was expropriated from Arab citizens of Israel....

Falah didn't you try to tell me recently about a farm that was "only" 5000 square kilometers?

Title: Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Post by falah on Jun 16^th, 2012 at 6:29pm

freediver wrote on Jun 16^th, 2012 at 6:06pm:

Quote:

between 1948 and 2003 more than 1,000 square kilometers (390 sq mi) of land was expropriated from Arab citizens of Israel....

Falah didn't you try to tell me recently about a farm that was "only" 5000 square kilometers?

That is land stolen from Christians and Muslims who hold Israeli citizenship! The amount stolen from Christians and Muslims who were not given Israeli citizenship is far greater.

Title: Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Post by Spot of Borg on Jun 16^th, 2012 at 6:48pm

freediver wrote on Jun 16^th, 2012 at 1:04pm:

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jun 16^th, 2012 at 1:01pm:

They want the "1967" borders whatever those are. My guess is they include gaza and west bank.

SOB

Thats what you are doing. They say they want 1967 borders. You say they dont. Who is right? Seems to me the ones that are refusing to talk are the ones in the wrong.

SOB

Title: Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Post by freediver on Jun 16^th, 2012 at 6:59pm

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jun 16^th, 2012 at 6:48pm:

They say they want 1967 borders. You say they dont. Who is right?

I am not making it up Spot. It is in their charter - destroy Israel.

Title: Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Post by gizmo_2655 on Jun 16^th, 2012 at 7:29pm

"Hamas Principles
The principles of the Hamas are stated in their Covenant or Charter, given in full below. Following are highlights.

"Israel will exist and will continue to exist until Islam will obliterate it, just as it obliterated others before it." (The Martyr, Imam Hassan al-Banna, of blessed memory).

"The Islamic Resistance Movement believes that the land of Palestine is an Islamic Waqf consecrated for future Muslim generations until Judgement Day. It, or any part of it, should not be squandered: it, or any part of it, should not be given up. "

"There is no solution for the Palestinian question except through Jihad. Initiatives, proposals and international conferences are all a waste of time and vain endeavors."

"After Palestine, the Zionists aspire to expand from the Nile to the Euphrates. When they will have digested the region they overtook, they will aspire to further expansion, and so on. Their plan is embodied in the "Protocols of the Elders of Zion", and their present conduct is the best proof of what we are saying."

http://www.mideastweb.org/hamas.htm

Title: Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Post by Spot of Borg on Jun 17^th, 2012 at 6:18am

Freediver didnt even attempt to back what he said up and your link doesnt work.

SOB

Title: Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Post by freediver on Jun 17^th, 2012 at 8:41am

Spot were you unaware that Hamas calls for the destruction of Israel in it's charter? This is not some little by-line. The charter is jihad from start to finish. Accepting land from Israel is not the same as tossing out their charter.

Take your pick:

https://www.google.com.au/search?q=hamas+charter&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official

Title: Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Post by Spot of Borg on Jun 17^th, 2012 at 9:22am

freediver wrote on Jun 17^th, 2012 at 8:41am:

They are asking for 1967 borders. the "charter" you are talking about is prolly irrelevant and old. You google it you made the claim.

SOB

Title: Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Post by freediver on Jun 17^th, 2012 at 9:30am

Quote:

the "charter" you are talking about is prolly irrelevant and old

It is not irrelevant to Hamas. It is their charter. Nor is it irrelevant to the Israeli's, because it call's for Israel's destruction. Don't you think it is kind of naive for you to try to sweep something that big under the carpet and hope it will simply go away. Both Abu and Falah share the views expressed in the Hamas charter about Israel's destruction.

If Hamas did actually want peace, and had an outdated charter that forbade them from seeking peace, the first thing they would do is change their charter. Nothing else would make sense.

Can you explain your absurd mental gymnastics and Islamic apologetics? The more you talk about this, the more you look like a Muslim.

Title: Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Post by Spot of Borg on Jun 17^th, 2012 at 9:34am

freediver wrote on Jun 17^th, 2012 at 9:30am:

Quote:

the "charter" you are talking about is prolly irrelevant and old

Are abu and falah palestinians?

Im not sweeping anything under the carpet.You havent given me anything to sweep under the carpet. your word. ha!

Its prolly old. Really old. Currently they are asking for 1967 borders.

SOB

Title: Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Post by freediver on Jun 17^th, 2012 at 10:08am

Quote:

Are abu and falah palestinians?

Im not sweeping anything under the carpet.You havent given me anything to sweep under the carpet. your word. ha!

I gave you a link Spot. It is in their charter. For some reason you expected me to follow my own link. Is that so you didn't have to face the reality?

It is not an old charter. It is their current charter. Hamas' current reason for existence is the destruction of Israel.

How would you handle that? Ignore it and hope they don't kill you? Why are you so desperate to avoid acknowledging what these Muslims stand for?

Title: Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Post by Spot of Borg on Jun 17^th, 2012 at 10:40am

freediver wrote on Jun 17^th, 2012 at 10:08am:

Quote:

Are abu and falah palestinians?

No. The reason I included that is because as Australians, they should be able to be a bit more objective about it. But as Muslims, they feel compelled to also call for Israel's destruction, even if it would mean more suffering for Muslims and Jews.

[quote]Im not sweeping anything under the carpet.You havent given me anything to sweep under the carpet. your word. ha!

Title: Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Post by freediver on Jun 17^th, 2012 at 12:00pm

Are you a Muslim?

Title: Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Post by PoliticalPuppet on Jun 17^th, 2012 at 12:08pm

freediver wrote on Jun 17^th, 2012 at 12:00pm:

Are you a Muslim?

Why would this create bias?
Using your own logic why then should we accept your opinions as legitimate given you are anglo and attacking Muslims/defending anglos?

Title: Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Post by Avram Horowitz on Jun 17^th, 2012 at 12:19pm

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jun 17^th, 2012 at 10:40am:

freediver wrote on Jun 17^th, 2012 at 10:08am:

Quote:

Are abu and falah palestinians?

you are useless. you gave me a link to google.

Abuy and Falah are not palestinians they cant speak for palestinians.

SOb[/quote]

They have never lived there and know very little of the region.
So maybe they are good speakers - the Palestinians are liars and like to make the world think they are poor and all refugees.

People like these believe them.

Title: Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Post by Spot of Borg on Jun 17^th, 2012 at 12:35pm

Avram Horowitz wrote on Jun 17^th, 2012 at 12:19pm:

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jun 17^th, 2012 at 10:40am:

freediver wrote on Jun 17^th, 2012 at 10:08am:

Quote:

Are abu and falah palestinians?

you are useless. you gave me a link to google.

Abuy and Falah are not palestinians they cant speak for palestinians.

SOb

They have never lived there and know very little of the region.
So maybe they are good speakers - the Palestinians are liars and like to make the world think they are poor and all refugees.

People like these believe them.
[/quote]

They are refugees. Israel kicked them out. Israel is blockading them so they are poor.

Can you answer a question please? The prisoners in israel that are being held without charge - where are they from? West Bank Gaza or both?

SOB

Title: Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Post by freediver on Jun 17^th, 2012 at 12:45pm

Spot how would you handle Hamas? Don't you think it is naive to expect a viable peace treaty with an organisation whose charter calls for your death?

Title: Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Post by falah on Jun 17^th, 2012 at 1:17pm

freediver wrote on Jun 17^th, 2012 at 12:45pm:

Spot how would you handle Hamas? Don't you think it is naive to expect a viable peace treaty with an organisation whose charter calls for your death?

Freeliar? Why do you lie about Muslims and Islam so much? Are you Jewish? What is your agenda here?

Hamas has never called for the death of the Israeli people. They only want to overthrow the oppressive Israeli government.

Hamas has even said that they are willing to negotiate a treaty based on 1967 borders.

Your lies expose you for the fake that you are.

Title: Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Post by PoliticalPuppet on Jun 17^th, 2012 at 2:04pm

freediver wrote on Jun 17^th, 2012 at 12:45pm:

Spot how would you handle Hamas? Don't you think it is naive to expect a viable peace treaty with an organisation whose charter calls for your death?

Give them planes and bombs then you would accept them?

Title: Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Post by freediver on Jun 17^th, 2012 at 2:17pm

bobbythefap1 wrote on Jun 17^th, 2012 at 2:04pm:

freediver wrote on Jun 17^th, 2012 at 12:45pm:

Spot how would you handle Hamas? Don't you think it is naive to expect a viable peace treaty with an organisation whose charter calls for your death?

Give them planes and bombs then you would accept them?

I would accept that they are a threat to peace.

Quote:

Hamas has never called for the death of the Israeli people. They only want to overthrow the oppressive Israeli government.

Without killing anyone? How naive do you expect people to be Falah?

Quote:

Hamas has even said that they are willing to negotiate a treaty based on 1967 borders.

Falah, it is the 'honouring' part of the treaty that matters.

Title: Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Post by PoliticalPuppet on Jun 17^th, 2012 at 2:19pm

freediver wrote on Jun 17^th, 2012 at 2:17pm:

bobbythefap1 wrote on Jun 17^th, 2012 at 2:04pm:

freediver wrote on Jun 17^th, 2012 at 12:45pm:

Spot how would you handle Hamas? Don't you think it is naive to expect a viable peace treaty with an organisation whose charter calls for your death?

Give them planes and bombs then you would accept them?

I would accept that they are a threat to peace.

Quote:

Hamas has never called for the death of the Israeli people. They only want to overthrow the oppressive Israeli government.

Without killing anyone? How naive do you expect people to be Falah?

[quote]Hamas has even said that they are willing to negotiate a treaty based on 1967 borders.

Falah, it is the 'honouring' part of the treaty that matters.[/quote]
Please peace has already been raped to death by Israel.
Once again reserve the same rights for others as you would want for yourself.
Put yourself in their position.
Better yet imagine Australia was Palestine.

Wouldn't killing people in that instance just be collateral damage? Which you yourself has said is OK???

Title: Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Post by freediver on Jun 17^th, 2012 at 2:26pm

Puppet I would not put myself in their position. I would get myself out of their position. Dedicating yourself to the destruction of a neighbouring country that is infinitely stronger than you is just going to bring yourself more grief. If they were serious about the negotiations, they would abandon their rediculous jihad charter.

Title: Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Post by PoliticalPuppet on Jun 17^th, 2012 at 2:28pm

freediver wrote on Jun 17^th, 2012 at 2:26pm:

So you are saying if Australia was invaded you would pussy out and run away????
What do you mean neighboring they are occupied in their country. What the UN says has no legitimacy.

Get a clue. You need to learn how to look at facts without emotion.

Title: Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Post by freediver on Jun 17^th, 2012 at 2:31pm

Quote:

So you are saying if Australia was invaded you would pussy out and run away????

No Puppet. Neighbouring countries invaded Israel, many times. They lost, many times. That was decades ago. At some point you realise that lobbing more rockets over the border will only get you killed.

Title: Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Post by PoliticalPuppet on Jun 17^th, 2012 at 2:34pm

freediver wrote on Jun 17^th, 2012 at 2:31pm:

Quote:

So you are saying if Australia was invaded you would pussy out and run away????

Were not talking about neighboring countries.
Israel must have a pretty good realisation then.

Title: Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Post by gizmo_2655 on Jun 17^th, 2012 at 2:34pm

bobbythefap1 wrote on Jun 17^th, 2012 at 2:28pm:

freediver wrote on Jun 17^th, 2012 at 2:26pm:

So then the various UN Resolutions against Israel don't have any legitimacy either??

Title: Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Post by Spot of Borg on Jun 17^th, 2012 at 2:35pm

freediver wrote on Jun 17^th, 2012 at 12:45pm:

Spot how would you handle Hamas? Don't you think it is naive to expect a viable peace treaty with an organisation whose charter calls for your death?

Obviously - if they are calling for a peace agreement - their charter does not call for "your" death. Talk. Israel could @ least talk. They wont. However its obviously israel doesnt want peace anyway because they wont stop building in west bank and they break ceasefires etc.

Avram: where are the prisoners in the prisons being held without trial from? West bank? Gaza? both?

SOB

Title: Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Post by PoliticalPuppet on Jun 17^th, 2012 at 2:36pm

gizmo_2655 wrote on Jun 17^th, 2012 at 2:34pm:

bobbythefap1 wrote on Jun 17^th, 2012 at 2:28pm:

freediver wrote on Jun 17^th, 2012 at 2:26pm:

So then the various UN Resolutions against Israel don't have any legitimacy either??

As far as I am aware they have only ever made suggestions and complaints regarding Israel which anyone is free to do. When people say that it becomes law then there is a problem.

Title: Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Post by freediver on Jun 17^th, 2012 at 2:41pm

Quote:

Obviously - if they are calling for a peace agreement - their charter does not call for "your" death.

It calls for the destruction of Israel. You are right that this completely contradicts their charter. You are wrong to conclude that the charter must therefore not exist.

Title: Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Post by gizmo_2655 on Jun 17^th, 2012 at 2:52pm

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jun 17^th, 2012 at 2:35pm:

freediver wrote on Jun 17^th, 2012 at 12:45pm:

Spot how would you handle Hamas? Don't you think it is naive to expect a viable peace treaty with an organisation whose charter calls for your death?

Spot, are you even sure that there ARE any prisoners 'held without trial'????

Title: Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Post by Spot of Borg on Jun 17^th, 2012 at 2:55pm

gizmo_2655 wrote on Jun 17^th, 2012 at 2:52pm:

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jun 17^th, 2012 at 2:35pm:

freediver wrote on Jun 17^th, 2012 at 12:45pm:

Spot how would you handle Hamas? Don't you think it is naive to expect a viable peace treaty with an organisation whose charter calls for your death?

Spot, are you even sure that there ARE any prisoners 'held without trial'????

You obviously havent read the thread. There were links and articles back when i first started asking the question. There is also a thread i started about the hunger strikers (you know of them) they are held without trial. Why would you ask such a stupid question anyway?

SOB

Title: Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Post by gizmo_2655 on Jun 17^th, 2012 at 3:23pm

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jun 17^th, 2012 at 2:55pm:

gizmo_2655 wrote on Jun 17^th, 2012 at 2:52pm:

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jun 17^th, 2012 at 2:35pm:

freediver wrote on Jun 17^th, 2012 at 12:45pm:

Spot how would you handle Hamas? Don't you think it is naive to expect a viable peace treaty with an organisation whose charter calls for your death?

Spot, are you even sure that there ARE any prisoners 'held without trial'????

To make a point...

All of your information is 2nd hand...and is therefore questionable...

Most media reports on this subject are slanted, one way or the other (although 'mostly' pro-Pally)..

Title: Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Post by PoliticalPuppet on Jun 17^th, 2012 at 3:24pm

gizmo_2655 wrote on Jun 17^th, 2012 at 3:23pm:

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jun 17^th, 2012 at 2:55pm:

gizmo_2655 wrote on Jun 17^th, 2012 at 2:52pm:

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jun 17^th, 2012 at 2:35pm:

freediver wrote on Jun 17^th, 2012 at 12:45pm:

Spot how would you handle Hamas? Don't you think it is naive to expect a viable peace treaty with an organisation whose charter calls for your death?

Spot, are you even sure that there ARE any prisoners 'held without trial'????

To make a point...

All of your information is 2nd hand...and is therefore questionable...

Most media reports on this subject are slanted, one way or the other (although 'mostly' pro-Pally)..

Hahahahahahahaha
By that logic your entire argument is invalid, the entire argument for your side about the subject for that matter.

Title: Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Post by adamant on Jun 17^th, 2012 at 3:32pm

I believe that the Jews should invade all the surrounding muslim countries, killing raping taxing and enslaving the unbelieving kuffers. When they come to pay their tax the Jews must beat spit cut degrade and mark them so we all know who the scum are. The muslim hoard would not be allowed to own land and must stoop and show deference to the Jews or they will loose their heads. The Jews must then expand their rightful presence from Pakistan in the East to Morocco in the West they must slaughter bomb eradicate rape and instill the fear of the one and only TRUE GOD.

Oh sod it the ficking muslim scum have done it already......

Title: Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Post by Spot of Borg on Jun 17^th, 2012 at 3:40pm

gizmo_2655 wrote on Jun 17^th, 2012 at 3:23pm:

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jun 17^th, 2012 at 2:55pm:

gizmo_2655 wrote on Jun 17^th, 2012 at 2:52pm:

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jun 17^th, 2012 at 2:35pm:

freediver wrote on Jun 17^th, 2012 at 12:45pm:

Spot how would you handle Hamas? Don't you think it is naive to expect a viable peace treaty with an organisation whose charter calls for your death?

Spot, are you even sure that there ARE any prisoners 'held without trial'????

To make a point...

All of your information is 2nd hand...and is therefore questionable...

Most media reports on this subject are slanted, one way or the other (although 'mostly' pro-Pally)..

Actually - not all. Avram isnt the only person i have talked to from the area. I have another friend in a chatroom who was radically pro-israel until he went there to take a look @ the situation for himself. He has changed his mind somewhat. Being religious he is still a lil biased but he admits there are some problems that israel is unwilling to address.

I still havent found a palestinian to talk with though.

SOB

Title: Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Post by gizmo_2655 on Jun 17^th, 2012 at 3:47pm

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jun 17^th, 2012 at 3:40pm:

gizmo_2655 wrote on Jun 17^th, 2012 at 3:23pm:

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jun 17^th, 2012 at 2:55pm:

gizmo_2655 wrote on Jun 17^th, 2012 at 2:52pm:

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jun 17^th, 2012 at 2:35pm:

freediver wrote on Jun 17^th, 2012 at 12:45pm:

Spot how would you handle Hamas? Don't you think it is naive to expect a viable peace treaty with an organisation whose charter calls for your death?

Spot, are you even sure that there ARE any prisoners 'held without trial'????

To make a point...

All of your information is 2nd hand...and is therefore questionable...

Most media reports on this subject are slanted, one way or the other (although 'mostly' pro-Pally)..

Well that's no surprise......every country/culture/government has those...

The point, though, is that both sides are making mistakes, or being too militant....not JUST Israel.

Back to the prisoner thing....I don't know anything about the Israeli legal system, mostly because I haven't bothered to find out, however, there may be police or military courts that do hold trials or tribunals for these prisoners....

I've found that when people say 'without legal representation' what they really mean is...'like I get at home' which ignores the possibility of different laws, in different countries..

Title: Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Post by Spot of Borg on Jun 17^th, 2012 at 3:59pm

gizmo_2655 wrote on Jun 17^th, 2012 at 3:47pm:

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jun 17^th, 2012 at 3:40pm:

gizmo_2655 wrote on Jun 17^th, 2012 at 3:23pm:

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jun 17^th, 2012 at 2:55pm:

gizmo_2655 wrote on Jun 17^th, 2012 at 2:52pm:

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jun 17^th, 2012 at 2:35pm:

freediver wrote on Jun 17^th, 2012 at 12:45pm:

Spot how would you handle Hamas? Don't you think it is naive to expect a viable peace treaty with an organisation whose charter calls for your death?

Spot, are you even sure that there ARE any prisoners 'held without trial'????

To make a point...

All of your information is 2nd hand...and is therefore questionable...

Most media reports on this subject are slanted, one way or the other (although 'mostly' pro-Pally)..

The reason they were on hunger strike was because they wanted actual trials (well that was one of the reasons). I am asking avram about these prisoners because if he served in the military there he should know.

SOB

Title: Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Post by Avram Horowitz on Jun 17^th, 2012 at 5:06pm

From my knowledge there are not people held without a trial.
Gaza is not under control of Israel at all so if people from Gaza is arrested they are charged and try in court.
There is no arrests in Gaza as there is no police in Gaza.

Title: Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Post by Spot of Borg on Jun 17^th, 2012 at 5:12pm

Avram Horowitz wrote on Jun 17^th, 2012 at 5:06pm:

Okay so most are from west bank then. Thanks.

Have a look here though - theres 4000 apparently! I had no idea there were that many!

http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1339915122

SOB

Title: Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Post by Yadda on Jun 17^th, 2012 at 5:28pm

freediver wrote on Jun 17^th, 2012 at 9:30am:

Quote:

the "charter" you are talking about is prolly irrelevant and old

It is not irrelevant to Hamas. It is their charter. Nor is it irrelevant to the Israeli's, because it call's for Israel's destruction. Don't you think it is kind of naive for you to try to sweep something that big under the carpet and hope it will simply go away. Both Abu and Falah share the views expressed in the Hamas charter about Israel's destruction.

If Hamas did actually want peace, and had an outdated charter that forbade them from seeking peace, the first thing they would do is change their charter. Nothing else would make sense.

Can you explain your absurd mental gymnastics and Islamic apologetics?

The more you talk about this, the more you look like a Muslim.

I think most people on OzPol, who have scrutinised SOB's 'arguments', have noticed that.

A clear and unreasoned bias, favouring moslem actions and moslem proclivities.

Clearly SOB demonstrates that she 'thinks', and expresses herself, exactly 'like' a moslem [on the 'Palestinian'/Israeli issue].

Title: Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Post by freediver on Jun 17^th, 2012 at 5:54pm

I have noticed that about spot and puppet. Both have a clear bias towards Muslims. I haven't asked spot yet, but puppet simply refuses to explain what his political views are - hardly surprising in someone 'defending' Muslims. Spot just seems to have trouble acknowledging the facts if they don't suit his argument.

Title: Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Post by Avram Horowitz on Jun 17^th, 2012 at 5:56pm

Yadda wrote on Jun 17^th, 2012 at 5:28pm:

freediver wrote on Jun 17^th, 2012 at 9:30am:

Quote:

the "charter" you are talking about is prolly irrelevant and old

It is not irrelevant to Hamas. It is their charter. Nor is it irrelevant to the Israeli's, because it call's for Israel's destruction. Don't you think it is kind of naive for you to try to sweep something that big under the carpet and hope it will simply go away. Both Abu and Falah share the views expressed in the Hamas charter about Israel's destruction.

If Hamas did actually want peace, and had an outdated charter that forbade them from seeking peace, the first thing they would do is change their charter. Nothing else would make sense.

Can you explain your absurd mental gymnastics and Islamic apologetics?

The more you talk about this, the more you look like a Muslim.

Is spot a woman?
I didn't know this.

Title: Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Post by Spot of Borg on Jun 17^th, 2012 at 6:00pm

Avram Horowitz wrote on Jun 17^th, 2012 at 5:56pm:

Yadda wrote on Jun 17^th, 2012 at 5:28pm:

freediver wrote on Jun 17^th, 2012 at 9:30am:

Quote:

the "charter" you are talking about is prolly irrelevant and old

It is not irrelevant to Hamas. It is their charter. Nor is it irrelevant to the Israeli's, because it call's for Israel's destruction. Don't you think it is kind of naive for you to try to sweep something that big under the carpet and hope it will simply go away. Both Abu and Falah share the views expressed in the Hamas charter about Israel's destruction.

If Hamas did actually want peace, and had an outdated charter that forbade them from seeking peace, the first thing they would do is change their charter. Nothing else would make sense.

Can you explain your absurd mental gymnastics and Islamic apologetics?

The more you talk about this, the more you look like a Muslim.

Is spot a woman?
I didn't know this.

No i am a bloke. The DH soren started that poo.

SOB

Title: Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Post by Spot of Borg on Jun 17^th, 2012 at 6:02pm

freediver wrote on Jun 17^th, 2012 at 5:54pm:

I am not defending "muslims" i am defending palestinians. The fact that a high percentage of them are muslim isn't the point and doesn't come into it. Israel is treating them badly and needs to be brought into line somehow.

SOB

Title: Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Post by Avram Horowitz on Jun 17^th, 2012 at 6:05pm

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jun 17^th, 2012 at 6:00pm:

Avram Horowitz wrote on Jun 17^th, 2012 at 5:56pm:

Yadda wrote on Jun 17^th, 2012 at 5:28pm:

freediver wrote on Jun 17^th, 2012 at 9:30am:

Quote:

the "charter" you are talking about is prolly irrelevant and old

It is not irrelevant to Hamas. It is their charter. Nor is it irrelevant to the Israeli's, because it call's for Israel's destruction. Don't you think it is kind of naive for you to try to sweep something that big under the carpet and hope it will simply go away. Both Abu and Falah share the views expressed in the Hamas charter about Israel's destruction.

If Hamas did actually want peace, and had an outdated charter that forbade them from seeking peace, the first thing they would do is change their charter. Nothing else would make sense.

Can you explain your absurd mental gymnastics and Islamic apologetics?

The more you talk about this, the more you look like a Muslim.

Is spot a woman?
I didn't know this.

No i am a bloke. The DH soren started that poo.

SOB

"bloke".
Haha I Learned this word in australia.

Title: Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Post by Yadda on Jun 17^th, 2012 at 6:06pm

freediver wrote on Jun 17^th, 2012 at 2:26pm:

Puppet I would not put myself in their position. I would get myself out of their position. Dedicating yourself to the destruction of a neighbouring country that is infinitely stronger than you is just going to bring yourself more grief.

If they were serious about the negotiations, they would abandon their rediculous jihad charter.

Exactly so.

But they can't do that.

ISLAM does not allow that sort of flexibility whenever moslems can see their victory over Allah's enemies [in this case, the Jewish people] being so, so, close to fruition, within their grasp.

They imagine!

Dream about it. ;D

Die for Allah, go to Allah's paradise.

You know, that that is what you really want.
/sarc off

You know that it is all real.
/sarc off

i.e.
ISLAM teaches = = "Go on! Do evil, so that good may come."

Proverbs 15:11
Hell and destruction are before the LORD: how much more then the hearts of the children of men?

Title: Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Post by Yadda on Jun 17^th, 2012 at 6:15pm

Adamant wrote on Jun 17^th, 2012 at 3:32pm:

LOL adamant.

Nice one.

Turning the tables, on moslems, re 'unbelievers'.

You have been reading the Covenant of Omar.

Recording how moslems may 'respect' dhimmis ['unbelievers' who submit to moslem rule].

Title: Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Post by Yadda on Jun 17^th, 2012 at 6:33pm

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jun 17^th, 2012 at 6:00pm:

Avram Horowitz wrote on Jun 17^th, 2012 at 5:56pm:

Is spot a woman?
I didn't know this.

No i am a bloke. The DH soren started that poo.

SOB

Sorry ~~darling~~, i mean, mate.

To me, you just come across as a woman [i WAS going to say; 'as a dozy bint'. but i restrained myself.]

Title: Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Post by Yadda on Jun 17^th, 2012 at 6:43pm

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jun 17^th, 2012 at 6:02pm:

I am not defending "muslims" i am defending palestinians. The fact that a high percentage of them are muslim isn't the point and doesn't come into it.

Israel is treating them badly and needs to be brought into line somehow.

SOB

Moslems portray that to the world, that Israel is treating 'Palestinians' badly.

And you, are a moslem 'dupe' on this issue. [i.e. you have been 'taken in' by the moslem lies.]

1/
You accept moslem lies, as truth.

2/
And you refuse to examine any evidence to the contrary [i.e. the abundant proof that moslems are flagrant and unashamed liars].

Moslems are responsible for their lies.

But you are responsible, in seeking to inform yourself, as to what is true, OR, false.iGoogle;
taqiyya - the muslim doctrine of deceit

Google;
palestinian lies media watch

Google;
al dura hoax

Google;
pallywood

Title: Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Post by freediver on Jun 17^th, 2012 at 7:12pm

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jun 17^th, 2012 at 6:02pm:

freediver wrote on Jun 17^th, 2012 at 5:54pm:

I think if you asked them why they are lobbing rockets into Israel decades after they lost the last war, Islam would come into it.

Title: Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Post by Spot of Borg on Jun 17^th, 2012 at 7:28pm

freediver wrote on Jun 17^th, 2012 at 7:12pm:

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jun 17^th, 2012 at 6:02pm:

freediver wrote on Jun 17^th, 2012 at 5:54pm:

I think if you asked them why they are lobbing rockets into Israel decades after they lost the last war, Islam would come into it.

Its their religion (well the muslim ones) and other ppl justify their actions by their religions too. The reason they are firing rockets is because they are pissed off @ the treatment they are getting.

SOB

Title: Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Post by Yadda on Jun 17^th, 2012 at 7:57pm

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jun 17^th, 2012 at 7:28pm:

The reason they are firing rockets is because they are pissed off @ the treatment they are getting.

SOB

But contra wise, the Israelis, those on the receiving end [of the Pal rockets], have no right [of their own] to be pissed off with 'the treatment they are getting' [incessant rocketing of Israeli civilian areas], from the Pal's ???

No.

Of course not.
/sarc off

That is what disgusts me, with moslems.

They are such absolute, whining hypocrites.

They abduct, and rape, and murder, the children of 'unbelievers'.

But moslems, have absolutely no consideration for the mothers of those children who are being abducted, raped, and murdered, by moslems !!

Don't moslem mothers have any compassion for the mothers of 'unbelievers', whose children are abducted, raped, and murdered, by moslems ???

Apparently not.

Quote:

Kuwait: "Female political activist" calls for legalizing sex slavery to protect men from "adultery or corruption"

KUWAIT: A female political activist and former parliamentary candidate has recommended the introduction of legislation to legalize the provision of enslaved female concubines for Muslim men in Kuwait in a bid, she says, to protect those men from committing adultery or corruption.

The activist, Salwa Al-Mutairi, suggested apparently seriously in a video broadcast online that she had been informed by some clerics that affluent Muslim men who fear being seduced or tempted into immoral behavior by the beauty of their female servants, or even of those servants 'casting spells' on them, would be better to purchase women from an 'enslaved maid' agency for sexual purposes.

http://www.jihadwatch.org/2011/06/kuwait-female-political-activist-calls-for-legalizing-sex-slavery-to-protect-men-from-adultery-or-co.html

Title: Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Post by Spot of Borg on Jun 18^th, 2012 at 8:14am

http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/world/2012-06/17/c_131658845.htm

Quote:

Abbas slams Israel's refusal to two-state principle, likely to meet senior Israeli official
English.news.cn 2012-06-17 21:02:07 [RSS] [Feedback] [Print] [Copy URL] [More]

RAMALLAH, June 17 (Xinhua) -- Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas on Sunday slammed Israel for not accepting the principle of two-state solution, as he is expected to meet early next month with Israeli Vice Prime Minister Shaul Mofaz.

During a conference held in Ramallah, Abbas held Israel responsible for the deadlock of peace process, adding that " reviving the clinically dead peace process is in their hands."

"The Israeli rejection to keep its commitment to the peace process would make the principle of two-state solution just an illusion," Abbas said.

He also said the Israeli side "has planted its settlements and settlers in our lands in a studied way that tears the territories of our future state into isolated pieces of lands," making the idea of establishing an independent Palestinian state on 1967 territories impossible.

In October 2010, the Palestinians suspended the direct peace talks with Israel after the latter insisted on continuing settlement building on the territories it occupied in 1967.

The Palestinians insist that there will be no resumption of talks with Israel until it completely stops building settlements in the West Bank and east Jerusalem.

Meanwhile, Abbas renewed his appeal to Arab and Muslim leaders all over the world to visit east Jerusalem and support residents there "to block the Israeli attempts of Judaizing the city."

Also on Sunday, chief Palestinian negotiator Saeb Erekat told Voice of Palestine Radio that Abbas is likely to hold a meeting next month with Mofaz, a deputy to Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, to discuss the revival of stalled peace process.

"President Abbas is studying the time and place of holding a meeting with Mofaz, who has repeatedly requested to meet to study the revival of peace talks," said Erekat.

He revealed that Abbas will not meet with Netanyahu unless the latter releases Palestinian prisoners from Israeli jails and allows arms to security forces of the Palestinian National Authority.

"If such a meeting between Abbas and Netanyahu is held, it will be an opportunity to start a dialogue," he said, added that " Resuming direct peace talks would need Israel to completely halts settlement building in the West Bank and east Jerusalem."

Erekat is expected to fly to Washington to meet with U.S. Secretary of State Hillary Clinton next week. "I will tell Clinton and other U.S. officials that Washington has to exert more efforts to... bring the peace process back to its track," he said.

"I will tell them that settlement should end," said Erekat.

Israel doesnt even want peace!

SOB

Title: Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Post by Spot of Borg on Jun 23^rd, 2012 at 6:15pm

Yup they broke another one. Why avram?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-18558699

Quote:

Firefighters tried to put out the fires following the air strikes on the Gaza Strip

Israeli air strikes on the Gaza Strip have killed two Palestinians just days after a ceasefire was brokered.

At least 21 others have been injured, including 17 early on Saturday morning. The wounded included two women and four children, hospital officials said.

The Israeli Defence Force (IDF) said the air strikes have been targeted at people preparing or firing rockets.

The Gaza border with Israel has seen some of the worst violence in recent months over the last week.

Since Monday, Israeli air strikes have killed at least 10 Palestinians while militants have fired over 130 rockets.

Earlier on Friday, Palestinian militants launched two rockets into Israel which did not cause any damage.

Friday's attacks were the first instances of violence since an Egypt-brokered ceasefire was put in place on Wednesday.
Hamas involvement

In a statement, the Israeli Defence Force said it had "targeted a terrorist squad during preparations to fire a rocket at Israel from the central Gaza Strip" in its first airstrike on Friday.

That attack killed a man called Basel Ahmed, who was buried later on Friday. A second air strike on Friday killed an unnamed 18 year-old, who the IDF said had been part of a group firing rockets into Israel.

Initial reports suggested both men may have been from an Islamist Salafi militant group, but this has not been confirmed.

Further strikes early on Saturday morning hit sites including a security compound belonging to the Hamas administration in the centre of Gaza city.

Houses near the compound were also reportedly damaged.

The latest series of clashes started with air strikes on Monday morning, just hours after gunmen from Sinai carried out an ambush along Israel's southern border with Egypt, killing an Israeli-Arab construction worker.

Escalations of violence like this happen every few months, but on this occasion the ruling Islamist group Hamas has admitted to carrying out some of the rocket attacks itself for the first time in a year.

It has largely held back from carrying out itself since Israel's three-week offensive in Gaza in 2008-2009, Operation Cast Lead.

Spot

Title: Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Post by Soren on Jun 23^rd, 2012 at 6:23pm

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jun 23^rd, 2012 at 6:15pm:

Yup they broke another one. Why avram?

Because "militants have fired over 130 rockets"

Title: Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Post by Spot of Borg on Jun 23^rd, 2012 at 6:35pm

Soren wrote on Jun 23^rd, 2012 at 6:23pm:

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jun 23^rd, 2012 at 6:15pm:

Yup they broke another one. Why avram?

Because "militants have fired over 130 rockets"

When? During the ceasefire? No? Who broke it? Why agree to it if they arent gunna stick to it? Obviously the jews dishonest to the core.

SOB

Title: Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Post by gizmo_2655 on Jun 23^rd, 2012 at 8:20pm

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jun 23^rd, 2012 at 6:35pm:

Soren wrote on Jun 23^rd, 2012 at 6:23pm:

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jun 23^rd, 2012 at 6:15pm:

Yup they broke another one. Why avram?

Because "militants have fired over 130 rockets"

When? During the ceasefire? Yes!! Who broke it? Why agree to it if they arent gunna stick to it? Obviously Hamas are dishonest to the core.

SOB

Title: Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Post by Spot of Borg on Jun 24^th, 2012 at 7:17am

gizmo_2655 wrote on Jun 23^rd, 2012 at 8:20pm:

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jun 23^rd, 2012 at 6:35pm:

Soren wrote on Jun 23^rd, 2012 at 6:23pm:

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jun 23^rd, 2012 at 6:15pm:

Yup they broke another one. Why avram?

Because "militants have fired over 130 rockets"

When? During the ceasefire? Yes!! Who broke it? Why agree to it if they arent gunna stick to it? Obviously Hamas are dishonest to the core.

SOB

you change my quote to a lie? Israel broke the ceasefire not hamas.

SOB

Title: Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Post by gizmo_2655 on Jun 24^th, 2012 at 6:46pm

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jun 24^th, 2012 at 7:17am:

gizmo_2655 wrote on Jun 23^rd, 2012 at 8:20pm:

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jun 23^rd, 2012 at 6:35pm:

Soren wrote on Jun 23^rd, 2012 at 6:23pm:

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jun 23^rd, 2012 at 6:15pm:

Yup they broke another one. Why avram?

Because "militants have fired over 130 rockets"

When? During the ceasefire? Yes!! Who broke it? Why agree to it if they arent gunna stick to it? Obviously Hamas are dishonest to the core.

SOB

you change my quote to a lie? Israel broke the ceasefire not hamas.

SOB

Yep, made it truthful.....
Read the the news stories AND the timeline....

Title: Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Post by Spot of Borg on Jun 24^th, 2012 at 7:07pm

gizmo_2655 wrote on Jun 24^th, 2012 at 6:46pm:

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jun 24^th, 2012 at 7:17am:

gizmo_2655 wrote on Jun 23^rd, 2012 at 8:20pm:

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jun 23^rd, 2012 at 6:35pm:

Soren wrote on Jun 23^rd, 2012 at 6:23pm:

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jun 23^rd, 2012 at 6:15pm:

Yup they broke another one. Why avram?

Because "militants have fired over 130 rockets"

When? During the ceasefire? Yes!! Who broke it? Why agree to it if they arent gunna stick to it? Obviously Hamas are dishonest to the core.

SOB

you change my quote to a lie? Israel broke the ceasefire not hamas.

SOB

Yep, made it truthful.....
Read the the news stories AND the timeline....

It is dishonest to change someone elses post. Especially a QUOTE.

Israel breaks ceasefires all the time. Why? Because they dont want peace. They started bulldozing again is why the rockets started. The rockets STOPPED when the ceasefire was called then israel did an airstrike.

SOB

Title: Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Post by Soren on Jun 24^th, 2012 at 9:19pm

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jun 24^th, 2012 at 7:07pm:

gizmo_2655 wrote on Jun 24^th, 2012 at 6:46pm:

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jun 24^th, 2012 at 7:17am:

gizmo_2655 wrote on Jun 23^rd, 2012 at 8:20pm:

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jun 23^rd, 2012 at 6:35pm:

Soren wrote on Jun 23^rd, 2012 at 6:23pm:

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jun 23^rd, 2012 at 6:15pm:

Yup they broke another one. Why avram?

Because "militants have fired over 130 rockets"

When? During the ceasefire? Yes!! Who broke it? Why agree to it if they arent gunna stick to it? Obviously Hamas are dishonest to the core.

SOB

you change my quote to a lie? Israel broke the ceasefire not hamas.

SOB

Yep, made it truthful.....
Read the the news stories AND the timeline....

Idiot. Read your own news article that you posted. It says "militants have fired over 130 rockets"

What a moron.

Also, from the article YOU posted, you insufferable fooking looney:

Quote:

Earlier on Friday, Palestinian militants launched two rockets into Israel which did not cause any damage.

Friday's attacks were the first instances of violence since an Egypt-brokered ceasefire was put in place on Wednesday.

What a fooking moron you are. Run along, child, tell daddy FD that Soren kicked your bollocks. Go on.

Title: Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Post by Spot of Borg on Jun 25^th, 2012 at 6:47am

Did you click on the link? See the headline? All the other articles on same thing? They all say israel broke the treaty. Geez they were bulldozing again too.

SOB

Title: Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Post by Soren on Jun 25^th, 2012 at 10:52pm

Just read your OWN post, moron. YOUR OWN POST. Did you get that? or is all capitals still no good because it's black and not some unspecified colour without which comprehension is impossible for you. Or is it the wrong bloody font, that's why you don't understand it? Or what?

Quote:

You posted that, bozo. it says that the Pallos' attack was the first since the ceasefire. What does that mean to you? That the Pallos' attack was the first since the ceasefire or something completely different? Check with your cat, it might have a better grasp of basic things like reading.

Title: Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Post by Spot of Borg on Jun 26^th, 2012 at 7:42am

Soren wrote on Jun 25^th, 2012 at 10:52pm:

Israell broke the peace treaty. After just 2 days.

SOB

Title: Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Post by Baronvonrort on Jun 26^th, 2012 at 1:01pm

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jun 26^th, 2012 at 7:42am:

Soren wrote on Jun 25^th, 2012 at 10:52pm:

Israell broke the peace treaty. After just 2 days.

SOB

Firing rockets into Israel is a war crime, should Israel just ignore these rockets being fired into Israel spot of bullshit?

Firing rockets into Israel appears to be a national pastime going by the number of rockets lobbed into Israel, do you think firing rockets into Israel is breaking a ceasefire spot of bullshit?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Palestinian_rocket_attacks_on_Israel,_2012

Title: Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Post by Spot of Borg on Jun 26^th, 2012 at 1:04pm

No rockets were fired during the peace treaty which ISRAEL broke.

SOB

Title: Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Post by Baronvonrort on Jun 26^th, 2012 at 1:07pm

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jun 26^th, 2012 at 1:04pm:

No rockets were fired during the peace treaty which ISRAEL broke.

SOB

Did you read the list of rocket attacks on Israel for 2012, when did they stop and for how long?

Does the peace treaty still allow muslims to fire rockets into Israel?

Title: Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Post by Spot of Borg on Jun 27^th, 2012 at 7:59am

Baronvonrort wrote on Jun 26^th, 2012 at 1:07pm:

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jun 26^th, 2012 at 1:04pm:

No rockets were fired during the peace treaty which ISRAEL broke.

SOB

Did you read the list of rocket attacks on Israel for 2012, when did they stop and for how long?

Does the peace treaty still allow muslims to fire rockets into Israel?

They stopped for 2 days while there was a peace treaty then israel broke it.

SOB