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Let's talk about Indonesia, East Timor and Balibo (Read 4361 times)
red baron
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Let's talk about Indonesia, East Timor and Balibo
Apr 6th, 2012 at 5:06pm
 
It seems that everyone is concerned about the U.S. being here and a place called North Korea. But I want to open it up on Indonesia.

Let's talk INDONESIA and its THREAT TO AUSTRALIA.

I'll kick it off with the following taken from an online article.

On August 30 it will be a decade since the people of East Timor defied the genocidal occupiers of their country to take part in a United Nations referendum, voting for their freedom and independence. A “scorched earth” campaign by the Indonesian dictatorship followed, adding to a toll of carnage that had begun 24 years earlier when Indonesia invaded tiny East Timor with the secret support of Australia, Britain and the United States. According to a committee of the Australian parliament, “at least 200,000” died under the occupation, a third of the population.

Filming undercover in 1993, I found crosses almost everywhere: great black crosses etched against the sky, crosses on peaks, crosses in tiers on the hillsides, crosses beside the road. They littered the earth and crowded the eye. A holocaust happened in East Timor, telling us more about rapacious Western power, its propaganda and true aims, than even current colonial adventures.

The historical record is unambiguous that the US, Britain and Australia conspired to accept such a scale of bloodshed as the price of securing South-East Asia’s “greatest prize” with its “hoard of natural resources”. Philip Liechty, the senior CIA operations officer in Jakarta at the time of the invasion, told me, “I saw the intelligence. There were people being herded into school buildings by Indonesian soldiers and the buildings set on fire. The place was a free fire zone ... We sent them everything that you need to fight a major war against somebody who doesn’t have any guns. None of that got out … [The Indonesian dictator] Suharto was given the green light to do what he did.”

Britain supplied Suharto with machine guns and Hawk fighter-bombers which, regardless of fake “assurances”, were used against defenceless East Timorese villages. The critical role was played by Australia. This was Australia’s region. During World War II, the people of East Timor had fought heroically to stop a Japanese invasion of Australia. Their betrayal was spelt out in a series of leaked cables sent by the Australian ambassador in Jakarta, Richard Woolcott, prior to and during the Indonesian invasion in 1975. Echoing Henry Kissinger, he urged “a pragmatic rather than a principled stand”, reminding his government that it would “more readily” exploit the oil and gas wealth beneath the Timor Sea with Indonesia than with its rightful owners, the East Timorese. “What Indonesia now looks to from Australia …,” he wrote as Suharto’s special forces slaughtered their way across East Timor, “is some understanding of their attitude and possible action to assist public understanding in Australia”.

Two months earlier, Indonesian troops had murdered five newsmen from Australian TV near the East Timorese town of Balibo. On the day the capital, Dili, was seized, they shot dead a sixth journalist, Roger East, throwing his body into the sea. Australian intelligence had known 12 hours in advance that the journalists in Balibo faced imminent death, and the government did nothing. Intercepted at the spy base, Defence Signals Directorate (DSD) near Darwin, which supplies US and British intelligence, the warning was suppressed so that it would not expose western governments’ part in the conspiracy to invade and the official lie that the journalists had been killed in “crossfire”.

The secretary of the Australian Defence Department, Arthur Tange, a notorious cold warrior, demanded that the government not even inform the journalists’ families of their murders. No minister protested to the Indonesians. This criminal connivance is documented in Death in Balibo, Lies in Canberra, by Desmond Ball, a renowned intelligence specialist, and Hamish McDonald.

The Australian government’s complicity in the journalists’ murder and, above all, in a bloodbath greater proportionally than that perpetrated by Pol Pot in Cambodia has been cut almost entirely from a major new film, Balibo, which has begun its international release in Australia.

Claiming to be a “true story”, it is a travesty of omissions. In eight of 16 drafts of his screenplay, David Williamson, the distinguished Australian playwright, graphically depicted the chain of true events that began with the original radio intercepts by Australian intelligence and went all the way to prime minister Gough Whitlam, who believed East Timor should be “integrated” into Indonesia. This is reduced in the film to a fleeting image of Whitlam and Suharto in a newspaper wrapped around fish and chips.

Williamson’s original script described the effect of the cover up on the families of the murdered journalists and their anger and frustration at being denied information and despair at Canberra’s scandalous decision to have the journalists’ ashes buried in Jakarta with ambassador Woolcott, the arch apologist, reading the oration. What the government feared if the ashes came home was public outrage directed at the West’s client in Jakarta. All this was cut.


Indonesia has and continues to be the biggest threat to our safety - Red Baron
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bobbythefap1
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Re: Let's talk about Indonesia, East Timor and Balibo
Reply #1 - Apr 6th, 2012 at 5:11pm
 
Indonesia is roughly the 18th strongest military in the world, Australia 24th.

Compare the two militaries here:

http://www.globalfirepower.com/countries-comparison.asp
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Ex Dame Pansi
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Re: Let's talk about Indonesia, East Timor and Balibo
Reply #2 - Apr 6th, 2012 at 5:27pm
 
Our relationship with Indonesia has always been strained, but both governments continue to give them considerable aid, through fear I suppose, keep your enemies close ra ra ra.

The closest we came to a friendly relationship was under Keating.

I would be far more worried about Indonesia than any middle eastern country. Although, it seems we are the only nation in this region that are talking up enemies.
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andrei said: Great isn't it? Seeing boatloads of what is nothing more than human garbage turn up.....
 
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MOTR
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Re: Let's talk about Indonesia, East Timor and Balibo
Reply #3 - Apr 6th, 2012 at 5:43pm
 
bobbythefap1 wrote on Apr 6th, 2012 at 5:11pm:
Indonesia is roughly the 18th strongest military in the world, Australia 24th.

Compare the two militaries here:

http://www.globalfirepower.com/countries-comparison.asp


Focus on the middle of the list and it's pretty obvious there is no real threat from Indonesia.
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chimera
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Re: Let's talk about Indonesia, East Timor and Balibo
Reply #4 - Apr 6th, 2012 at 5:57pm
 
[Since 1642, military expeditions led by the Portuguese Francisco Fernandes took place. The aim of this expedition was to weaken the power of the Timor kings. In places where Portuguese rule was asserted, it tended to be brutal and exploitative. ]
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The territory had been Indonesian and the Indonesian troops weren't chasing butterflies, they were being shot at for 20 years. The massacres by Indon. were an outrage, but Timor was no innocent victim and the napalm bombs were what US was dropping on villages in Vietnam when Oz was its ally.
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bobbythefap1
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Re: Let's talk about Indonesia, East Timor and Balibo
Reply #5 - Apr 6th, 2012 at 6:37pm
 
MOTR wrote on Apr 6th, 2012 at 5:43pm:
bobbythefap1 wrote on Apr 6th, 2012 at 5:11pm:
Indonesia is roughly the 18th strongest military in the world, Australia 24th.

Compare the two militaries here:

http://www.globalfirepower.com/countries-comparison.asp


Focus on the middle of the list and it's pretty obvious there is no real threat from Indonesia.

They could smash us in a ground invasion tho, wouldnt be too hard for them to take a northern town like Darwin.

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Re: Let's talk about Indonesia, East Timor and Balibo
Reply #6 - Apr 6th, 2012 at 6:50pm
 
Unless the boofheads sort things out, the west Papua rebels will one day be pushed to PNG border. Then when Indonesia bombs them inside PNG, good old Oz will back PNG.
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Grey
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Re: Let's talk about Indonesia, East Timor and Balibo
Reply #7 - Apr 6th, 2012 at 7:03pm
 
MOTR wrote on Apr 6th, 2012 at 5:43pm:
bobbythefap1 wrote on Apr 6th, 2012 at 5:11pm:
Indonesia is roughly the 18th strongest military in the world, Australia 24th.

Compare the two militaries here:

http://www.globalfirepower.com/countries-comparison.asp


Focus on the middle of the list and it's pretty obvious there is no real threat from Indonesia.


You're not really being objective are you? Grin
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MOTR
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Re: Let's talk about Indonesia, East Timor and Balibo
Reply #8 - Apr 6th, 2012 at 7:10pm
 
bobbythefap1 wrote on Apr 6th, 2012 at 6:37pm:
MOTR wrote on Apr 6th, 2012 at 5:43pm:
bobbythefap1 wrote on Apr 6th, 2012 at 5:11pm:
Indonesia is roughly the 18th strongest military in the world, Australia 24th.

Compare the two militaries here:

http://www.globalfirepower.com/countries-comparison.asp


Focus on the middle of the list and it's pretty obvious there is no real threat from Indonesia.

They could smash us in a ground invasion tho, wouldnt be too hard for them to take a northern town like Darwin.



I don't believe so. Indonesia simply doesn't have the specialized military forces required to launch such an invasion force. Their troop numbers mean nothing if they can't land or supply them.
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Grey
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Re: Let's talk about Indonesia, East Timor and Balibo
Reply #9 - Apr 6th, 2012 at 7:10pm
 
If Indonesia and Australia went to war the US would be a willing audience. Forget America our future salvation lays with making friends in our region. Playing host to the declining Imperium aint doing it for us.
What we ought to be doing is cosying up to India.
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Re: Let's talk about Indonesia, East Timor and Balibo
Reply #10 - Apr 6th, 2012 at 7:13pm
 
The biggest threat to Australia is the US/Israeli axis.

The CIA has already overthrown the democratically elected Whitlam Government.

We have been pushed into spending our blood and treasure on useless Zionist wars in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Our political parties are thoroughly infiltrated by US agents.

How much more interference will we tolerate?

Quote:
Pro-Zionist-led Coup ousts Australian PM Rudd


About 35 years ago a CIA-influenced coup dismissed the reformist Australian Labor Party Whitlam Government. 6 year ago the US vetoed Labor Opposition leader Mark Latham’s bid for office. On 24 June 2010 a pro-Zionist led coup sacked an insufficiently pro-Zionist Labor PM Kevin Rudd.

This was a dramatic change of leadership in Australia. Australia’s PM Kevin Rudd, who only about 30 months ago led Labor to a famous landslide victory after 11 years in the political wilderness, was abruptly removed from power in a ruthless process taking less than 1 day.

According to The Age newspaper, Rudd was only told at about 7 pm on the evening of Wednesday 23 June and was kicked out by 9.30 am on Thursday 24 June. The sacking of Labor Hero Kevin Rudd  was significantly due to aggravation of the powerful Mining Industry, the subsequent highly successful Mining Industry advertising campaign and a precipitous loss of support for Labor.

The excuse offered by Rudd’s post-coup  replacement, PM Julia Gillard, Rudd’s former Deputy PM, was that Labor “had lost its way” under Rudd.  But, of course essentially all of the Labor Parliamentary Caucus were complicit in the refugee, war, climate change  and taxation decisions of the Rudd Labor Government - they all had "lost their way".

However the major Gillard Labor conspirators were all pro-Zionists as is the new pro-war and pro-Zionist PM Gillard.  Some of the key plotters had visited Israel on trips funded by Australian pro-Zionist organizations.  2 weeks before his demise the evidently insufficiently pro-Zionist PM Rudd attempted (unsuccessfully) to mend fences with the Zionist Lobby over gross Israeli violations of Australian border protection  and sovereignty by forging Australian passports and Israeli terrorism against Australians in International waters (piracy, kidnapping, false imprisonment, theft). Pro-Zionist Rudd’s responses were timid  - he called the piracy on the Gaza Aid Flotilla “deplorable” and asked Israel to conduct an investigation. He eventually followed the UK example and demanded the ousting of 1 Israeli diplomat over the Israeli forging of Australian passports for terrorism purposes. The Australian Zionists were furious at even these obsequious responses and were evidently not mollified by further Rudd obsequiousness.

Many decent Labor supporters were devastated by this betrayal of a major Labor figure (indeed a “Labor hero” popularly called Kevin 07) in what has been described as a coup, a bloodless coup, a putsch, and a political assassination.  Julia Gillard has become Australia’s “first female PM”. This is what decent, humane and pro-human rights Labor MP Julia Irwin had to say: “Not since Brutus stabbed Julius Caesar have we seen such an act of betrayal. What happens if she [Ms Gillard] wins the [forthcoming, 2010] election and the polls go down? Will they do the same to her? With this standard of loyalty, federal Labor could take the same path as NSW [state] Labor [in deep electoral trouble]. I felt the party owed him that; he took us to victory. He led us out of the wilderness. He was voted in by the people, and if the people weren't happy with his leadership or with Labor, they could have voted us out. But the knife has been put in his back."

Pro-coal, pro-US, pro-Zionist, pro-war  Rudd’s problems began when he put off his absurd and counterproductive Emissions Trading Scheme (ETS) until 2013, alienating Labor voters who had elected him to “tackle climate change”. The ETS in actuality was so atrocious and pro-polluter that the pro-environment Greens rejected it in the Senate. However people concerned about global warming were appalled by this Labor decision to in effect not do anything about man-made climate change for a total of 5 years. Other issues surfaced to diminish his electoral support: thousands of refugees  trying to reach Australia by boat; a Government roof insulation disaster involving several deaths, over 100 house fires and hundreds of thousands of homes put at risk; cost over-runs in a huge boost to school infrastructure; and a huge increase in Government debt associated with poorly judged responses to the Global Financial Crisis GFC).

However a deadly problem was the decision to apply a 40% Super-Profit Tax on Australia’s burgeoning Mining Industry. This resulted in a huge Mining Industry media campaign which the Government attempted to counter with its own  $38 million campaign that controversially involved taxpayer money. Indeed one of PM Gillard’s first actions as PM was to announce cessation of the taxpayer-funded Government advertising campaign (about $10 million has been spent so far) with the expectation that the Mining Industry would do likewise (they have, for the moment).

A possibly key part of this story that is not being told in the generally pro-Zionist Australian Mainstream media is that many of the main conspirators and Gillard supporters shared Ms Gillard’s pro-Zionist views, had similarly visited Israel or had otherwise similarly addressed or attended pro-Zionist groups or gatherings.

There is, of course, no evidence that the Israelis demanded Rudd’s head (which is not to say that they didn’t) but it is quite clear that this was a pro-Zionist-led coup against a  vulnerable Australian PM that the Zionists clearly felt was not sufficiently pro-Zionist. The actual major reason for the coup was declining electoral support for Rudd and a major reason for that in turn was a highly successful media blitz by the Mining Lobby over a proposed huge new tax on mining. This was a pro-Zionist-led coup that sacked pro-Zionist Rudd because his popularity had declined according to the media polls.

Kevin Rudd was criticized by Australian Zionists for his concerns (albeit very timidly expressed concerns) over routine Israeli forging of Australian passports for terrorist purposes (an Israeli diplomat was eventually asked to leave) and over the Israeli terrorist attack on the Gaza Aid Flotilla that involved 3 Israeli Australians as perpetrators and 5 Australians as victims of this violent, criminal, Israeli terrorist  piracy in International waters (Rudd merely said that the incident was “deplorable”). Indeed, worried by increasing hostility to his Government from Australian Zionists and cessation of Zionist electoral funding, Rudd held a fence-mending dinner for leading Zionist lobbyists and MPs at The Lodge (the PM’s official Canberra residence) several weeks ago.

A mainstream media  account of this last ditch attempt by Rudd to shore up Zionist support has been provided  by Peter Hartcher in the Sydney Morning Herald  in an article entitled “What am I , chopped liver? How Rudd dived into schmooze mode”(22 June 2010): “The Jewish community was deeply disturbed by the abrupt change in the government's Israel policy. And Rudd's treatment of the local Jewish fraternity, too. He had always been strongly pro-Israel. A former chairman of the World Jewish Congress Isi Leibler last year described him as "a Christian Zionist - he understands and has some sympathy for us”… [Rudd said] it was time for a "new momentum" in Australia's relationship with Israel. He said Australia would send Trade Minister Simon Crean to Israel, and this would doubtless lead to a reciprocal visit and a new energy. He promised new funding for the secure schools program, which provides security to Jewish schools, now the first $20 million was spent. The Jewish leaders left the Lodge shaken by the events of the last months but largely satisfied with Rudd's assurances and his promises. Which is just as well, because the food was reportedly terrible. The crisis over, fund-raising events for Labor are expected to resume.” Hartcher was evidently too optimistic.

The Australian Jewish News put it thus: “Prime Minster Kevin Rudd attempted to rebuild bridges with the Jewish community last Thursday in the wake of the Government’s comments regarding the flotilla crisis and the expulsion of an Israeli diplomat over the passport affair… “There was no specific singling out of Israel for condemnation, just a condemnation of violence” …Rudd also called for a greater flow of humanitarian aid into the Hamas-controlled zone, but at no time spoke in favour of the removal of the blockade, noting that it was vital Israel prevented arms shipments into Gaza. On the matter of passport forgeries and whether or not the Australian Government was right in its decision to expel an Israeli diplomat …Rudd and some of the other dinner guests had “a difference of opinion there”” (see Naomi Levin, “Rudd reaches out to leaders”, Australian Jewish News, 10 June 2010).

In the event, pro-Zionist Kevin Rudd was clearly found to be insufficiently pro-Zionist. Several weeks later he was ignominiously removed from power. Pro-war, pro-coal, pro-gas, pro-Zionist, pro-Israel Julia Gillard’s elevation was very warmly welcomed by major Zionist organizations.

Zionist displeasure at Rudd’s feeble attempts to protest Israeli actions violating Australian sovereignty may have represented a relatively minor issue in comparison with Rudd’s backflip on climate change action, his aggravation of the immensely powerful Mining Industry and his consequent slide in the polls. However history will show that the main anti-Rudd conspirators came from the powerful pro-Zionist faction of the Parliamentary Labor Party. Thus as Deputy PM Julia Gillard had led a big delegation to Israel in 2009 s...

http://mwcnews.net/focus/politics/3488-pro-zionist-led-coup.html
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« Last Edit: Apr 6th, 2012 at 7:20pm by falah »  

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Re: Let's talk about Indonesia, East Timor and Balibo
Reply #11 - Apr 6th, 2012 at 7:21pm
 
Grey wrote on Apr 6th, 2012 at 7:10pm:
If Indonesia and Australia went to war the US would be a willing audience. Forget America our future salvation lays with making friends in our region. Playing host to the declining Imperium aint doing it for us.
What we ought to be doing is cosying up to India.


I disagree. Not sure what time scale you're working from, but the US will remain the dominant super power for some time yet. There is no way the US would not provide support.
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Hunt says Coalition accepts IPCC findings

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Re: Let's talk about Indonesia, East Timor and Balibo
Reply #12 - Apr 7th, 2012 at 12:46am
 
MOTR wrote on Apr 6th, 2012 at 7:21pm:
Grey wrote on Apr 6th, 2012 at 7:10pm:
If Indonesia and Australia went to war the US would be a willing audience. Forget America our future salvation lays with making friends in our region. Playing host to the declining Imperium aint doing it for us.
What we ought to be doing is cosying up to India.


I disagree. Not sure what time scale you're working from, but the US will remain the dominant super power for some time yet. There is no way the US would not provide support.


Like the way it supported Britain over the Falklands? All they had to do was show solidarity and there never would've been a Falklands war.

The US will act in its own interest. That's the only way it acts. A war between Indonesia and Australia would severly weaken Indonesia and Australia. All to the good as far as the US is concerned. They'd like our resources cheap and they don't like our health care system and they don't like the competition our farmers give them. They might, at best, offer to look after us in the aftermath, ie take us over.
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Re: Let's talk about Indonesia, East Timor and Balibo
Reply #13 - Apr 7th, 2012 at 6:19am
 
I believe you're wrong on this one, Grey. Even if you were right where is the incentive for the Indonesians. They would weaken themselves internally and still not gain access to our resources. I just can't see it.
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Hunt says Coalition accepts IPCC findings

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Re: Let's talk about Indonesia, East Timor and Balibo
Reply #14 - Apr 7th, 2012 at 6:43am
 
Grey wrote on Apr 7th, 2012 at 12:46am:
MOTR wrote on Apr 6th, 2012 at 7:21pm:
Grey wrote on Apr 6th, 2012 at 7:10pm:
If Indonesia and Australia went to war the US would be a willing audience. Forget America our future salvation lays with making friends in our region. Playing host to the declining Imperium aint doing it for us.
What we ought to be doing is cosying up to India.


I disagree. Not sure what time scale you're working from, but the US will remain the dominant super power for some time yet. There is no way the US would not provide support.


Like the way it supported Britain over the Falklands? All they had to do was show solidarity and there never would've been a Falklands war.

The US will act in its own interest. That's the only way it acts. A war between Indonesia and Australia would severly weaken Indonesia and Australia. All to the good as far as the US is concerned. They'd like our resources cheap and they don't like our health care system and they don't like the competition our farmers give them. They might, at best, offer to look after us in the aftermath, ie take us over.


As for the Falklands, the US had treaty obligations to both sides, with the North Atlantic Treaty referring specifically to Europe. Argentina believed it has bought US neutrality by training Contras and supporting the Reagan Administration's dirty excursion into Central America. Perhaps they had, for while Reagan provided plenty of covert support to Britain it maintained an external stance of neutrality.

The US was not legally obliged to come Britain's support. Besides, Thatcher specifically knocked back a US peace plan that did not include "some retribution."
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« Last Edit: Apr 7th, 2012 at 7:04am by MOTR »  

Hunt says Coalition accepts IPCC findings

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