Australian Politics Forum - Private Health Means Test

longweekend58

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Re: Private Health Means Test - Its PASSED
Reply #180 - Feb 16^th, 2012 at 3:26pm

philperth2010 wrote on Feb 16^th, 2012 at 12:07pm:

BigOl64 wrote on Feb 16^th, 2012 at 12:00pm:

Dirty Paki Khunt wrote on Feb 16^th, 2012 at 11:41am:

Sure, but would you call it a punishment?

Whether we like it or not, tax is about the redistribution of wealth. What's the point of taxing people and giving the money back to them?

There is only one benefit, and that's political.

Financial self-reliance means just that. If you're too young or too old or too sick to work, you can't be self reliant, no matter how hard you try.

Babies are not self-reliant. The elderly are not self-reliant. If all goes perfectly, the average human being has less than 50 years of self-reliance.

The reason we form communities (and pay taxes) is to manage the lack of self-reliance inherent in the human condition.

Taxes have always been a punishment for working hard / smart / making money, most of which is wasted by the government anyway.

Everybody gets taxed and everybody gets some of it back, it's how our tax system works.

The poor pay bugger all tax and get the dole / subsidies with most of their income from taxpayer funded handouts, the rich pay huge amounts of tax and get rebates and refunds.

Actually I intend to be self reliant when I'm 'elderly' too; there is no way I want to be reliant on government 'services' at any point in my life, not public health and definitely not the pension.

Most people are born with their hand out, from cradle to grave, that's just not me; I don't want anything from the government. It's usually of poor quality and of insufficient quantity to be of any use anyway.

All I ask of the government is to p1ss off and leave me alone to live my life as I see fit; with our current nanny state mentality that ain't working out so well either.

Here.....Here.....Australia needs hard workers who pay their due don't expect anything for nothing.....If money is not wasted on hand outs their is more to do the things that are required and taxes can be reduced for all hard workers!!!

so you are saying that we shoudl greatly reduce welfare across the board or (predictably) only for middle classes?

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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

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corporate_whitey Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 8896 Archivist	Re: Private Health Means Test - Its PASSED Reply #181 - Feb 16^th, 2012 at 3:28pm The Wealthy are quite happy to have the tax payers money distributed illegitimately to them, but for some reason it must not be distributed to people who most need it --ohhh no you mustn't do that thats evil socialism...idiots.
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longweekend58

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Re: Private Health Means Test - Its PASSED
Reply #182 - Feb 16^th, 2012 at 3:29pm

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Feb 16^th, 2012 at 3:25pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Feb 16^th, 2012 at 3:24pm:

and finally someone is silly enough to say this. the tax system is NOT a means of wealth re-distribution. thats the socialist in you talking. taxes are for the paying of government and society's services and needs including looking after the poor. it is NOT to be an instrument of penalising the rich as was in the UK and Europe in the 70s and 80s. All that did was drive the acheivers out elsewhere.

Sometimes LW, you can make very valid and correct points.
This is one such occasion where I agree with you.

'welath redistribution' has been tried before. the USSR tried and and ended up with equality of poverty. the UK and Europe tried it and got a brain drain and a failing economy.

It hasnt yet occured to many except perhaps here and the USA that tax is essentially a punishment imposed for the experience of earning income. at low levels, it is just an annoyance. at high levels it IS a punishment. and having any govt benefits denied you because you are a major contributor to tax revenue is obscene.

Gina Rinehardt should have her health subsidy delivered to her in person by the PM. after all, she is paying almost teh entire national health budget out of her profits. a little bit of thanks every now and then wouldnt go astray!

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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

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longweekend58

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Re: Private Health Means Test - Its PASSED
Reply #183 - Feb 16^th, 2012 at 3:31pm

corporate_whitey wrote on Feb 16^th, 2012 at 3:28pm:

The Wealthy are quite happy to have the tax payers money distributed illegitimately to them, but for some reason it must not be distributed to people who most need it --ohhh no you mustn't do that thats evil socialism...idiots. Grin

perhaps they object to giving money to lazy nohoper layabouts like you who contribute NOTHING whatsoever to the nation. You even use up air and water that you dnot deserve. and as for food... you eat the same as any 4 other people.

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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

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BigOl64

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Re: Private Health Means Test - Its PASSED
Reply #184 - Feb 16^th, 2012 at 3:31pm

corporate_whitey wrote on Feb 16^th, 2012 at 3:24pm:

Private healthcare of the wealthy should not be tax payer subsidized in principle....

The wealthy are the 'taxpayers' you clown. Grin

The poor don't make ANY meaningful contribution to the tax kitty, they like you, only take from it.

If it wasn't for the wealthy taxpayers there would be no welfare for you to sponge off.

If you want a say in how taxes are distributed, try paying some.

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corporate_whitey Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 8896 Archivist	Re: Private Health Means Test - Its PASSED Reply #185 - Feb 16^th, 2012 at 3:31pm What a load of fictitious crap, LW...
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corporate_whitey

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Re: Private Health Means Test - Its PASSED
Reply #186 - Feb 16^th, 2012 at 3:33pm

BigOl64 wrote on Feb 16^th, 2012 at 3:31pm:

corporate_whitey wrote on Feb 16^th, 2012 at 3:24pm:

Private healthcare of the wealthy should not be tax payer subsidized in principle....

The wealthy are the 'taxpayers' you clown. Grin

The poor don't make ANY meaningful contribution to the tax kitty, they like you, only take from it.

If it wasn't for the wealthy taxpayers there would be no welfare for you to sponge off.

If you want a say in how taxes are distributed, try paying some.

I would not classify the wealthy as legitimate tax payers, they just manipulate the levers of political and economic power for their benefit... Cool

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corporate_whitey

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Re: Private Health Means Test - Its PASSED
Reply #187 - Feb 16^th, 2012 at 3:35pm

longweekend58 wrote on Feb 16^th, 2012 at 3:31pm:

corporate_whitey wrote on Feb 16^th, 2012 at 3:28pm:

The Wealthy are quite happy to have the tax payers money distributed illegitimately to them, but for some reason it must not be distributed to people who most need it --ohhh no you mustn't do that thats evil socialism...idiots. Grin

perhaps they object to giving money to lazy nohoper layabouts like you who contribute NOTHING whatsoever to the nation. You even use up air and water that you dnot deserve. and as for food... you eat the same as any 4 other people.

I definitely object to the wealth distribution to the wealthfare class - its an outrage, they have the global economy on the brink of collapse - the proof is in the fruits.... Grin

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BigOl64

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Re: Private Health Means Test - Its PASSED
Reply #188 - Feb 16^th, 2012 at 3:44pm

corporate_whitey wrote on Feb 16^th, 2012 at 3:33pm:

I would not classify the wealthy as legitimate tax payers, they just manipulate the levers of political and economic power for their benefit... Cool

If you PAY more in taxes than you get in rebates, subsidies and other welfare handouts, then you are a TAXPAYER, doesn't matter what friggen 'class' you are. And the wealthy pay vast sums on taxes, either as personal or company taxes.

In this debate you are a nobody, just another whinging welfare recipient. Grin

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Dirty Paki Khunt Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 103077	Re: Private Health Means Test - Its PASSED Reply #189 - Feb 16^th, 2012 at 3:45pm BigOl64 wrote on Feb 16^th, 2012 at 3:31pm: corporate_whitey wrote on Feb 16^th, 2012 at 3:24pm: Private healthcare of the wealthy should not be tax payer subsidized in principle.... The wealthy are the 'taxpayers' you clown. True. Kerry Packer was a great donor to the public purse.
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Doctor Jolly

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Re: Private Health Means Test - Its PASSED
Reply #190 - Feb 16^th, 2012 at 3:47pm

longweekend58 wrote on Feb 16^th, 2012 at 3:21pm:

i cant believe just how wrong you are in that assessment. almost every single statement is wrong. a cost-benefit analysis needs to include waiting 3 years for an operation that you 'need but wont kill you if you dont have it' which the private system wil give you in 3 days.

almost NO private insured patients choose the public system when they have an alternative.

Your usual drivel.

Firstly Doctors dont give you an alternative. They say "do you have health insurance", As soon as you say "yes", you dont get a choice.
You have to forcibly say "I wish to go public".

And the waiting lists arent long. A year or so back I had an elective surgery. Had to wrangle with the specialist for ages to get him to take me as public (one of the few that actually would), and was in hospital within 3 weeks.
Saved myself a motsa. the doctor was spewing. He could only charge Medicare a lousy $100/hour, instead of my health fund $600/hour.

That $600 is funded, indirectly, through the rebate, and what would be my gap. Why would we allow that ?

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Dirty Paki Khunt

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Re: Private Health Means Test - Its PASSED
Reply #191 - Feb 16^th, 2012 at 3:57pm

True. I needed to wait 6 weeks for an appointment after a referral to a private specialist.

I got into the public clinic in 2 weeks.

Anyway, you could do a simple comparison on the number of private versus public hospital beds. Very few patients actually get treated in private hospitals, insurance or not. They just don't have the beds.

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BigOl64

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Re: Private Health Means Test - Its PASSED
Reply #192 - Feb 16^th, 2012 at 3:58pm

Doctor Jolly wrote on Feb 16^th, 2012 at 3:47pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Feb 16^th, 2012 at 3:21pm:

i cant believe just how wrong you are in that assessment. almost every single statement is wrong. a cost-benefit analysis needs to include waiting 3 years for an operation that you 'need but wont kill you if you dont have it' which the private system wil give you in 3 days.

almost NO private insured patients choose the public system when they have an alternative.

Your usual drivel.

Firstly Doctors don't give you an alternative. They say "do you have health insurance", As soon as you say "yes", you don't get a choice.
You have to forcibly say "I wish to go public".

And the waiting lists arent long. A year or so back I had an elective surgery. Had to wrangle with the specialist for ages to get him to take me as public (one of the few that actually would), and was in hospital within 3 weeks.
Saved myself a motsa. the doctor was spewing. He could only charge Medicare a lousy $100/hour, instead of my health fund $600/hour.

That $600 is funded, indirectly, through the rebate, and what would be my gap. Why would we allow that ?

I don't get that you have private health insurance, but deliberately took a public health surgery slot from someone who could not afford to go 'private'.

Man that is mean.

The ONLY reason I have private health cover is so i don't have to go public, you for some unknown reason pay for health cover and then bludge off the public system anyway.

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Dirty Paki Khunt Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 103077	Re: Private Health Means Test - Its PASSED Reply #193 - Feb 16^th, 2012 at 4:00pm If you can do that, what's the point of subsidising private health insurance? And why even have private health insurance?
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Dsmithy70 Gold Member Offline ire futuis vobismetipsis Posts: 13147 Newy Gender:	Re: Private Health Means Test - Its PASSED Reply #194 - Feb 16^th, 2012 at 4:01pm Yeah bit surprised Jolly posted that. More of a Andrei post
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