Australian Politics Forum - Private Health Means Test

Dsmithy70

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Re: Private Health Means Test - Its PASSED
Reply #165 - Feb 16^th, 2012 at 11:51am

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Feb 16^th, 2012 at 11:34am:

Dirty Paki Khunt wrote on Feb 16^th, 2012 at 11:32am:

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Feb 16^th, 2012 at 11:29am:

I don't speak here from a personal point of view, I am thinking of others.

Others who would be in the same bracket as I would be, had I be living in Australia and paying tax solely within AUS and declaring all income in AUS.

Personally - I don't live in AUS so don't have to worry plus my time in Aus my grossed up income was less than $40k because of the double taxation offset relief where the rest of my salary was declared elsewhere.

My view here is of the demographic - not me personally.

Very generous of you, A.H. We know your views on the demographic.

Yes that they get utterly shafted by a Government that hates them in a time when they are struggling to get by.

High interest rates, high cost of living, salary downward pressure, high energy prices.

I know let's reduce their tax rebate further.....

Fking arseholes, I have always hated Labor for this reason.
Support scum but leave decent people high and dry.

And yet I'm sure I've seen the words "Swinging Voter" used as self description. Grin

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Dirty Paki Khunt

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Re: Private Health Means Test - Its PASSED
Reply #166 - Feb 16^th, 2012 at 11:59am

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Feb 16^th, 2012 at 11:50am:

Dirty Paki Khunt wrote on Feb 16^th, 2012 at 11:44am:

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Feb 16^th, 2012 at 11:34am:

Dirty Paki Khunt wrote on Feb 16^th, 2012 at 11:32am:

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Feb 16^th, 2012 at 11:29am:

I don't speak here from a personal point of view, I am thinking of others.

Others who would be in the same bracket as I would be, had I be living in Australia and paying tax solely within AUS and declaring all income in AUS.

Personally - I don't live in AUS so don't have to worry plus my time in Aus my grossed up income was less than $40k because of the double taxation offset relief where the rest of my salary was declared elsewhere.

My view here is of the demographic - not me personally.

Very generous of you, A.H. We know your views on the demographic.

Yes that they get utterly shafted by a Government that hates them in a time when they are struggling to get by.

High interest rates, high cost of living, salary downward pressure, high energy prices.

I know let's reduce their tax rebate further.....

Fking arseholes, I have always hated Labor for this reason.
Support scum but leave decent people high and dry.

Now now, we don't want to start a class war here, A.H.

Class has nothing to do with it.

I am working class.

Ah - so that's what you meant by your demographic: the international proletariat.

I'm sorry, A.H, I completely misunderstood. That explains all the talk about struggle and class war.

No wonder you hate the Labor Party - they're a bourgeouise distraction from the historical telos of class struggle: placing the means of production into the hands of the working class.

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BigOl64

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Re: Private Health Means Test - Its PASSED
Reply #167 - Feb 16^th, 2012 at 12:00pm

Dirty Paki Khunt wrote on Feb 16^th, 2012 at 11:41am:

Sure, but would you call it a punishment?

Whether we like it or not, tax is about the redistribution of wealth. What's the point of taxing people and giving the money back to them?

There is only one benefit, and that's political.

Financial self-reliance means just that. If you're too young or too old or too sick to work, you can't be self reliant, no matter how hard you try.

Babies are not self-reliant. The elderly are not self-reliant. If all goes perfectly, the average human being has less than 50 years of self-reliance.

The reason we form communities (and pay taxes) is to manage the lack of self-reliance inherent in the human condition.

Taxes have always been a punishment for working hard / smart / making money, most of which is wasted by the government anyway.

Everybody gets taxed and everybody gets some of it back, it's how our tax system works.

The poor pay bugger all tax and get the dole / subsidies with most of their income from taxpayer funded handouts, the rich pay huge amounts of tax and get rebates and refunds.

Actually I intend to be self reliant when I'm 'elderly' too; there is no way I want to be reliant on government 'services' at any point in my life, not public health and definitely not the pension.

Most people are born with their hand out, from cradle to grave, that's just not me; I don't want anything from the government. It's usually of poor quality and of insufficient quantity to be of any use anyway.

All I ask of the government is to p1ss off and leave me alone to live my life as I see fit; with our current nanny state mentality that ain't working out so well either.

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philperth2010

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Re: Private Health Means Test - Its PASSED
Reply #168 - Feb 16^th, 2012 at 12:07pm

BigOl64 wrote on Feb 16^th, 2012 at 12:00pm:

Dirty Paki Khunt wrote on Feb 16^th, 2012 at 11:41am:

Sure, but would you call it a punishment?

Whether we like it or not, tax is about the redistribution of wealth. What's the point of taxing people and giving the money back to them?

There is only one benefit, and that's political.

Financial self-reliance means just that. If you're too young or too old or too sick to work, you can't be self reliant, no matter how hard you try.

Babies are not self-reliant. The elderly are not self-reliant. If all goes perfectly, the average human being has less than 50 years of self-reliance.

The reason we form communities (and pay taxes) is to manage the lack of self-reliance inherent in the human condition.

Taxes have always been a punishment for working hard / smart / making money, most of which is wasted by the government anyway.

Everybody gets taxed and everybody gets some of it back, it's how our tax system works.

The poor pay bugger all tax and get the dole / subsidies with most of their income from taxpayer funded handouts, the rich pay huge amounts of tax and get rebates and refunds.

Actually I intend to be self reliant when I'm 'elderly' too; there is no way I want to be reliant on government 'services' at any point in my life, not public health and definitely not the pension.

Most people are born with their hand out, from cradle to grave, that's just not me; I don't want anything from the government. It's usually of poor quality and of insufficient quantity to be of any use anyway.

All I ask of the government is to p1ss off and leave me alone to live my life as I see fit; with our current nanny state mentality that ain't working out so well either.

Here.....Here.....Australia needs hard workers who pay their due don't expect anything for nothing.....If money is not wasted on hand outs their is more to do the things that are required and taxes can be reduced for all hard workers!!!

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If knowledge can create problems, it is not through ignorance that we can solve them.
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Doctor Jolly

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Re: Private Health Means Test - Its PASSED
Reply #169 - Feb 16^th, 2012 at 12:12pm

BigOl64 wrote on Feb 16^th, 2012 at 12:00pm:

The poor pay bugger all tax and get the dole / subsidies with most of their income from taxpayer funded handouts, the rich pay huge amounts of tax and get rebates and refunds.

The problem is that the tax system is so inefficient. For every $1 taken in tax, only about 60 to 70c is able to be spent or refunded.

Far better to limit the amount of refunds and rebates, and reduce the taxation.

If a high income earner pays $50,000 and tax and gets $10,000 back in rebates. Overall, the country would be better off with him paying $35,000 in tax and getting not rebates. Government would be neutral. Bloke would be $5000 extra in his pocket, and the only loser would be a few bean counters at the tax department whose servcies are no longer required.

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Dirty Paki Khunt

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Re: Private Health Means Test - Its PASSED
Reply #170 - Feb 16^th, 2012 at 12:15pm

BigOl64:

Never caught a train? Used electricity or water? Been to a public school? University? Let's hope you don't need an ambulance or an emergency ward.

I agree it would be nice if we could get rid of government services and let the private sector do everything, but I just don't see how we can. Australia has a small population and doesn't have a a big enough demand for various essential services.

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Doctor Jolly Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 3808	Re: Private Health Means Test - Its PASSED Reply #171 - Feb 16^th, 2012 at 12:19pm Dirty Paki Khunt wrote on Feb 16^th, 2012 at 11:59am: don't speak here from a personal point of view, I am thinking of others. karnal vs Hicks. Two fictitious trolls, trolling each other.
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Dirty Paki Khunt

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Re: Private Health Means Test - Its PASSED
Reply #172 - Feb 16^th, 2012 at 12:22pm

Doctor Jolly wrote on Feb 16^th, 2012 at 12:19pm:

Dirty Paki Khunt wrote on Feb 16^th, 2012 at 11:59am:

don't speak here from a personal point of view, I am thinking of others.

karnal vs Hicks.

Two fictitious trolls, trolling each other.

You think he's a troll? If he is, he gets my full respect. He's managed to out-troll me.

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BigOl64

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Re: Private Health Means Test - Its PASSED
Reply #173 - Feb 16^th, 2012 at 12:33pm

Dirty Paki Khunt wrote on Feb 16^th, 2012 at 12:15pm:

BigOl64:

Never caught a train? Used electricity or water? Been to a public school? University? Let's hope you don't need an ambulance or an emergency ward.

I agree it would be nice if we could get rid of government services and let the private sector do everything, but I just don't see how we can. Australia has a small population and doesn't have a a big enough demand for various essential services.

Why do you always revert to a reductio argument, it's just friggen annoying and childish.

NEVER said that I wanted everything privatised or shut down, did I?

I JUST said ,the less government assistance in MY life the happier I am.

Look if you want to live a life of government handouts that's your business, I personally do not.

I thought you could have worked out I don't give a flying rats @rse what the rest of you people do.

I'm losing my insurance rebate and I don't particularly care; I do my utmost to not have any need for government assistance; not too difficult to comprehend is it?

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Dsmithy70

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Re: Private Health Means Test - Its PASSED
Reply #174 - Feb 16^th, 2012 at 12:37pm

BigOl64 wrote on Feb 16^th, 2012 at 12:33pm:

Dirty Paki Khunt wrote on Feb 16^th, 2012 at 12:15pm:

BigOl64:

Never caught a train? Used electricity or water? Been to a public school? University? Let's hope you don't need an ambulance or an emergency ward.

I agree it would be nice if we could get rid of government services and let the private sector do everything, but I just don't see how we can. Australia has a small population and doesn't have a a big enough demand for various essential services.

Why do you always revert to a reductio argument, it's just friggen annoying and childish.

NEVER said that I wanted everything privatised or shut down, did I?

I JUST said ,the less government assistance in MY life the happier I am.

Look if you want to live a life of government handouts that's your business, I personally do not.

I thought you could have worked out I don't give a flying rats @rse what the rest of you people do.

I'm losing my insurance rebate and I don't particularly care; I do my utmost to not have any need for government assistance; not too difficult to comprehend is it?

C'mon Biggo get with the program, that's the argument for when Tony's PM not Gillard.
It's "I work hard yet I'm penalised" ATM
Wink

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REBELLION is not what most people think it is.
REBELLION is when you turn off the TV & start educating & thinking for yourself.
Gavin Nascimento

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BigOl64 Gold Member Offline Posts: 14438 Townsville QLD Gender:	Re: Private Health Means Test - Its PASSED Reply #175 - Feb 16^th, 2012 at 12:41pm
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longweekend58

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Re: Private Health Means Test - Its PASSED
Reply #176 - Feb 16^th, 2012 at 3:21pm

Dirty Paki Khunt wrote on Feb 16^th, 2012 at 11:20am:

BigOl64 wrote on Feb 16^th, 2012 at 11:10am:

From my perspective, I don't really care that I'm losing the rebate.

Why would you? The rebate was designed purely as a reward to the health insurers for their support of the Liberal Party.

Having private health insurance does not take people out of the public hospital system, even if they do claim. Doctors still need to treat you in public hospitals. Emergency care is still given in public hospitals.

And given the out-of-pocket expense of private health care, many go with the public system anyway.

On a cost-benefit analysis, public health is the best way to go. Australian medical care is reliant on public hospitals. Without them, the private system would cease to function.

i cant believe just how wrong you are in that assessment. almost every single statement is wrong. a cost-benefit analysis needs to include waiting 3 years for an operation that you 'need but wont kill you if you dont have it' which the private system wil give you in 3 days.

almost NO private insured patients choose the public system when they have an alternative. AND the public system depends on the private system for its survival. if there were no private system, the public system would collapse under a 50% higher demand, not to mention the doctors who supplement the lousy publci system pay with private health work.

Ever hear of 'waiting lists'?? there arent any inthe private system. build THAT into your cost-benefit analysis!

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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

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corporate_whitey Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 8896 Archivist	Re: Private Health Means Test - Its PASSED Reply #177 - Feb 16^th, 2012 at 3:24pm Private healthcare of the wealthy should not be tax payer subsidized in principle....
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longweekend58

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Re: Private Health Means Test - Its PASSED
Reply #178 - Feb 16^th, 2012 at 3:24pm

Dirty Paki Khunt wrote on Feb 16^th, 2012 at 11:41am:

BigOl64 wrote on Feb 16^th, 2012 at 11:30am:

Dirty Paki Khunt wrote on Feb 16^th, 2012 at 11:20am:

BigOl64 wrote on Feb 16^th, 2012 at 11:10am:

From my perspective, I don't really care that I'm losing the rebate.

Why would you? The rebate was designed purely as a reward to the health insurers for their support of the Liberal Party.

Well karnal, the rebate subsidised my health insurance costs when the insurers jacked up their prices. Now that I'm about to lose it, the prices will remain the same or higher and i will no longer be subsidised. See how that would normally have a financially adverse effect on myself.

So now it is no longer a reward for the insurers, it is a punishment for the financially self reliant.

Sure, but would you call it a punishment?

Whether we like it or not, tax is about the redistribution of wealth. What's the point of taxing people and giving the money back to them?

There is only one benefit, and that's political.

Financial self-reliance means just that. If you're too young or too old or too sick to work, you can't be self reliant, no matter how hard you try.

Babies are not self-reliant. The elderly are not self-reliant. If all goes perfectly, the average human being has less than 50 years of self-reliance.

The reason we form communities (and pay taxes) is to manage the lack of self-reliance inherent in the human condition.

and finally someone is silly enough to say this. the tax system is NOT a means of wealth re-distribution. thats the socialist in you talking. taxes are for the paying of government and society's services and needs including looking after the poor. it is NOT to be an instrument of penalising the rich as was in the UK and Europe in the 70s and 80s. All that did was drive the acheivers out elsewhere.

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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

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Andrei.Hicks

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Re: Private Health Means Test - Its PASSED
Reply #179 - Feb 16^th, 2012 at 3:25pm

longweekend58 wrote on Feb 16^th, 2012 at 3:24pm:

and finally someone is silly enough to say this. the tax system is NOT a means of wealth re-distribution. thats the socialist in you talking. taxes are for the paying of government and society's services and needs including looking after the poor. it is NOT to be an instrument of penalising the rich as was in the UK and Europe in the 70s and 80s. All that did was drive the acheivers out elsewhere.

Sometimes LW, you can make very valid and correct points.
This is one such occasion where I agree with you.

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Anyone who lives within their means suffers from a lack of imagination - Oscar Wilde

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