Australian Politics Forum - Andrew Bolt does what Gillard asks us

philperth2010

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Re: Andrew Bolt does what Gillard asks us - start with
Reply #15 - Oct 10^th, 2011 at 10:58am

culldav wrote on Oct 10^th, 2011 at 10:22am:

cods wrote on Oct 10^th, 2011 at 10:03am:

Dsmithy70 wrote on Oct 10^th, 2011 at 9:55am:

how do you know?
I don't need to be told the reasons for a tax on polluters, it's self evident to me.

so what was the cause say a million years ago when all the ice melted and the world flooded..

what was the cause of the dinosaur disappearing..

sweet mysteries..

we can argue till forever.. but it isnt a given that man is to blame.. and a TAX will be the cure.. it really isnt..

if the boom does a bust... well it could and it will..

what then with this TAX?.. what then for the planet?

its a circus as far as I am concerned and I believe industry is improving itself..

my god when a govt has to drag up pictures of Power Stations that went out of business years ago... something isnt quite right for me.

You cannot blame Gillard or the Government anymore, its the stupid people that agree to being taxed for nothing that are the problem.

Lets see how much of this carbon tax money actually gets spent on renewable sustainable energy; reckon the majority will go to paying back the nations debt.

Aussies really are the stupidest people on the planet right now, Rudd failed to introduce a mining tax and now gillard is just about to introduce a carbon tax that will help NOTHING. Grin

Looking at whats happening now and the drastic fall in the IQ's of Australians we are so glad we sent out kids to get a proper education in Europe, and not be educated by backward hillbillies. Embarrassed

Yet you get your information from Andrew Bolt.....Who is an idiot then....Europe deserves you and your self serving parasitic attitude???

The carbon tax and mining tax are designed to create revenue to support our lavish lifestyle......Pay for infrastructure.....Provide revenue for investment in renewable energy....Boost superannuation payments.....And provide investment in the future fund.....All worthwhile investments in our nations future!!!

Tony Abbott will pay for his environment policy from the budget....He will cut $70 billion in spending....He will put a levy on business to pay for his maternity scheme but offset the cost by giving business tax cuts payed for from the budget....He will give tax cuts to everyone payed for from the budget....He will not allow Australia to buy carbon credits from overseas so he must pay for all Australia's emissions paying top dollar in the process.....As he has capped the amount available to fund his direct action policy their is no way we will achieve our targets....Storing carbon in soil accounts for 60% of Abbott's reductions......A technology that is not proven and at present is not counted towards targets.....So 60% of Abbott's climate policy is not even counted towards our targets and Abbott claims he has a policy....Only an idiot would accept the Coalitions climate policy as anything but a smoke screen for doing nothing.....We will be paying for nothing if Abbott wins Government.....Australia will go backwards!!!

The world is full of people whose notion of a satisfactory future is, in fact, a return to the idealised past.
Robertson Davies, "A Voice from the Attic", 1960

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If knowledge can create problems, it is not through ignorance that we can solve them.
Isaac Asimov (1920 - 1992)

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culldav

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Re: Andrew Bolt does what Gillard asks us - start with
Reply #16 - Oct 10^th, 2011 at 11:08am

skippy. wrote on Oct 10^th, 2011 at 10:47am:

For Pete's sake people just put your valid concerns for the environment aside and look at the structure and meaning of the TAX!!
I have, the tax is to convince polluters to change to a more friendly form of power and will cost industry not individuals as individuals will be compensated, some will even be over compensated. Now your turn, try to stick to the facts and not the hypocritical rhetoric, you see the coalition's "plan" will cost us double and achieve much less, according to the economic experts, to what Labor want, would you prefer that?
You need to do some reading about the facts instead of just watching the propaganda TV adds, or listening to the propaganda being pushed by the confusionalist earth is flat lobby.

The coalition said they would not introduce a carbon tax. You have still failed to acknowledge the massive difference between carbon taxes in Europe and State within the USA and the carbon tax Gillard want to implement. Why is that, when you green environmentalists are the first ones to advocate that Australia is NOT the only country to have a carbon tax - well how about showing us the difference between the taxes?

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culldav

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Re: Andrew Bolt does what Gillard asks us - start with
Reply #17 - Oct 10^th, 2011 at 11:11am

philperth2010 wrote on Oct 10^th, 2011 at 10:58am:

culldav wrote on Oct 10^th, 2011 at 10:22am:

cods wrote on Oct 10^th, 2011 at 10:03am:

Dsmithy70 wrote on Oct 10^th, 2011 at 9:55am:

how do you know?
I don't need to be told the reasons for a tax on polluters, it's self evident to me.

so what was the cause say a million years ago when all the ice melted and the world flooded..

what was the cause of the dinosaur disappearing..

sweet mysteries..

we can argue till forever.. but it isnt a given that man is to blame.. and a TAX will be the cure.. it really isnt..

if the boom does a bust... well it could and it will..

what then with this TAX?.. what then for the planet?

its a circus as far as I am concerned and I believe industry is improving itself..

my god when a govt has to drag up pictures of Power Stations that went out of business years ago... something isnt quite right for me.

You cannot blame Gillard or the Government anymore, its the stupid people that agree to being taxed for nothing that are the problem.

Lets see how much of this carbon tax money actually gets spent on renewable sustainable energy; reckon the majority will go to paying back the nations debt.

Aussies really are the stupidest people on the planet right now, Rudd failed to introduce a mining tax and now gillard is just about to introduce a carbon tax that will help NOTHING. Grin

Looking at whats happening now and the drastic fall in the IQ's of Australians we are so glad we sent out kids to get a proper education in Europe, and not be educated by backward hillbillies. Embarrassed

Yet you get your information from Andrew Bolt.....Who is an idiot then....Europe deserves you and your self serving parasitic attitude???

The carbon tax and mining tax are designed to create revenue to support our lavish lifestyle......Pay for infrastructure.....Provide revenue for investment in renewable energy....Boost superannuation payments.....And provide investment in the future fund.....All worthwhile investments in our nations future!!!

Tony Abbott will pay for his environment policy from the budget....He will cut $70 billion in spending....He will put a levy on business to pay for his maternity scheme but offset the cost by giving business tax cuts payed for from the budget....He will give tax cuts to everyone payed for from the budget....He will not allow Australia to buy carbon credits from overseas so he must pay for all Australia's emissions paying top dollar in the process.....As he has capped the amount available to fund his direct action policy their is no way we will achieve our targets....Storing carbon in soil accounts for 60% of Abbott's reductions......A technology that is not proven and at present is not counted towards targets.....So 60% of Abbott's climate policy is not even counted towards our targets and Abbott claims he has a policy....Only an idiot would accept the Coalitions climate policy as anything but a smoke screen for doing nothing.....We will be paying for nothing if Abbott wins Government.....Australia will go backwards!!!

The world is full of people whose notion of a satisfactory future is, in fact, a return to the idealised past.
Robertson Davies, "A Voice from the Attic", 1960

Gillard also allows carbon credits to be purchased overseas, so Abbott is not the only one. I suggest you read the small print Grin

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Doctor Jolly

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Re: Andrew Bolt does what Gillard asks us - start with
Reply #18 - Oct 10^th, 2011 at 11:16am

culldav wrote on Oct 10^th, 2011 at 11:08am:

skippy. wrote on Oct 10^th, 2011 at 10:47am:

For Pete's sake people just put your valid concerns for the environment aside and look at the structure and meaning of the TAX!!
I have, the tax is to convince polluters to change to a more friendly form of power and will cost industry not individuals as individuals will be compensated, some will even be over compensated. Now your turn, try to stick to the facts and not the hypocritical rhetoric, you see the coalition's "plan" will cost us double and achieve much less, according to the economic experts, to what Labor want, would you prefer that?
You need to do some reading about the facts instead of just watching the propaganda TV adds, or listening to the propaganda being pushed by the confusionalist earth is flat lobby.

The coalition said they would not introduce a carbon tax. You have still failed to acknowledge the massive difference between carbon taxes in Europe and State within the USA and the carbon tax Gillard want to implement. Why is that, when you green environmentalists are the first ones to advocate that Australia is NOT the only country to have a carbon tax - well how about showing us the difference between the taxes?

Has the anti-carbon tax argument now come down to picking petty differences between our carbon price and ones in other countries ?

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Doctor Jolly

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Re: Andrew Bolt does what Gillard asks us - start with
Reply #19 - Oct 10^th, 2011 at 11:17am

culldav wrote on Oct 10^th, 2011 at 11:11am:

philperth2010 wrote on Oct 10^th, 2011 at 10:58am:

culldav wrote on Oct 10^th, 2011 at 10:22am:

cods wrote on Oct 10^th, 2011 at 10:03am:

Dsmithy70 wrote on Oct 10^th, 2011 at 9:55am:

how do you know?
I don't need to be told the reasons for a tax on polluters, it's self evident to me.

so what was the cause say a million years ago when all the ice melted and the world flooded..

what was the cause of the dinosaur disappearing..

sweet mysteries..

we can argue till forever.. but it isnt a given that man is to blame.. and a TAX will be the cure.. it really isnt..

if the boom does a bust... well it could and it will..

what then with this TAX?.. what then for the planet?

its a circus as far as I am concerned and I believe industry is improving itself..

my god when a govt has to drag up pictures of Power Stations that went out of business years ago... something isnt quite right for me.

You cannot blame Gillard or the Government anymore, its the stupid people that agree to being taxed for nothing that are the problem.

Lets see how much of this carbon tax money actually gets spent on renewable sustainable energy; reckon the majority will go to paying back the nations debt.

Aussies really are the stupidest people on the planet right now, Rudd failed to introduce a mining tax and now gillard is just about to introduce a carbon tax that will help NOTHING. Grin

Looking at whats happening now and the drastic fall in the IQ's of Australians we are so glad we sent out kids to get a proper education in Europe, and not be educated by backward hillbillies. Embarrassed

Yet you get your information from Andrew Bolt.....Who is an idiot then....Europe deserves you and your self serving parasitic attitude???

The carbon tax and mining tax are designed to create revenue to support our lavish lifestyle......Pay for infrastructure.....Provide revenue for investment in renewable energy....Boost superannuation payments.....And provide investment in the future fund.....All worthwhile investments in our nations future!!!

Tony Abbott will pay for his environment policy from the budget....He will cut $70 billion in spending....He will put a levy on business to pay for his maternity scheme but offset the cost by giving business tax cuts payed for from the budget....He will give tax cuts to everyone payed for from the budget....He will not allow Australia to buy carbon credits from overseas so he must pay for all Australia's emissions paying top dollar in the process.....As he has capped the amount available to fund his direct action policy their is no way we will achieve our targets....Storing carbon in soil accounts for 60% of Abbott's reductions......A technology that is not proven and at present is not counted towards targets.....So 60% of Abbott's climate policy is not even counted towards our targets and Abbott claims he has a policy....Only an idiot would accept the Coalitions climate policy as anything but a smoke screen for doing nothing.....We will be paying for nothing if Abbott wins Government.....Australia will go backwards!!!

The world is full of people whose notion of a satisfactory future is, in fact, a return to the idealised past.
Robertson Davies, "A Voice from the Attic", 1960

Gillard also allows carbon credits to be purchased overseas, so Abbott is not the only one. I suggest you read the small print Grin

Abbott WONT allow CC purchased overseas. I suggest you read.

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Dsmithy70

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Re: Andrew Bolt does what Gillard asks us - start with
Reply #20 - Oct 10^th, 2011 at 11:18am

culldav wrote on Oct 10^th, 2011 at 11:11am:

philperth2010 wrote on Oct 10^th, 2011 at 10:58am:

culldav wrote on Oct 10^th, 2011 at 10:22am:

cods wrote on Oct 10^th, 2011 at 10:03am:

Dsmithy70 wrote on Oct 10^th, 2011 at 9:55am:

how do you know?
I don't need to be told the reasons for a tax on polluters, it's self evident to me.

so what was the cause say a million years ago when all the ice melted and the world flooded..

what was the cause of the dinosaur disappearing..

sweet mysteries..

we can argue till forever.. but it isnt a given that man is to blame.. and a TAX will be the cure.. it really isnt..

if the boom does a bust... well it could and it will..

what then with this TAX?.. what then for the planet?

its a circus as far as I am concerned and I believe industry is improving itself..

my god when a govt has to drag up pictures of Power Stations that went out of business years ago... something isnt quite right for me.

You cannot blame Gillard or the Government anymore, its the stupid people that agree to being taxed for nothing that are the problem.

Lets see how much of this carbon tax money actually gets spent on renewable sustainable energy; reckon the majority will go to paying back the nations debt.

Aussies really are the stupidest people on the planet right now, Rudd failed to introduce a mining tax and now gillard is just about to introduce a carbon tax that will help NOTHING. Grin

Looking at whats happening now and the drastic fall in the IQ's of Australians we are so glad we sent out kids to get a proper education in Europe, and not be educated by backward hillbillies. Embarrassed

Yet you get your information from Andrew Bolt.....Who is an idiot then....Europe deserves you and your self serving parasitic attitude???

The carbon tax and mining tax are designed to create revenue to support our lavish lifestyle......Pay for infrastructure.....Provide revenue for investment in renewable energy....Boost superannuation payments.....And provide investment in the future fund.....All worthwhile investments in our nations future!!!

Tony Abbott will pay for his environment policy from the budget....He will cut $70 billion in spending....He will put a levy on business to pay for his maternity scheme but offset the cost by giving business tax cuts payed for from the budget....He will give tax cuts to everyone payed for from the budget....He will

not

allow Australia to buy carbon credits from overseas so he must pay for all Australia's emissions paying top dollar in the process.....As he has capped the amount available to fund his direct action policy their is no way we will achieve our targets....Storing carbon in soil accounts for 60% of Abbott's reductions......A technology that is not proven and at present is not counted towards targets.....So 60% of Abbott's climate policy is not even counted towards our targets and Abbott claims he has a policy....Only an idiot would accept the Coalitions climate policy as anything but a smoke screen for doing nothing.....We will be paying for nothing if Abbott wins Government.....Australia will go backwards!!!

The world is full of people whose notion of a satisfactory future is, in fact, a return to the idealised past.
Robertson Davies, "A Voice from the Attic", 1960

Gillard also allows carbon credits to be purchased overseas, so Abbott is not the only one. I suggest you read the small print Grin

No Dav, Abbotts stated policy is to only allow Australian Carbon Credits, a policy that industry has said is unfeasiable and will add billions to their costs & therefore consumers costs as well.

Quote:

Opposition leader Tony Abbott says the coalition

won't

be supporting the purchase of carbon offsets from overseas, despite calls from business and industry.

The Australian Industry Greenhouse Network's membership includes the Business Council of Australia, the Minerals Council of Australia, the

Australian Industry Group and the Australian Coal Association, and companies such as BlueScope Steel, Woodside, Rio Tinto, ExxonMobil and BP Australia.

The network says without purchasing permits from overseas, the cost of abatement might double.

Treasury modelling has found that domestic-only cuts would cost an average of $69 a tonne of carbon

between now and 2020, compared with $29 under the government's Clean Energy Future plan, which allows some overseas permits.

http://www.businessspectator.com.au/bs.nsf/Article/Business-want-more-overseas-c...

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REBELLION is when you turn off the TV & start educating & thinking for yourself.
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culldav

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Re: Andrew Bolt does what Gillard asks us - start with
Reply #21 - Oct 10^th, 2011 at 11:25am

Doctor Jolly wrote on Oct 10^th, 2011 at 11:16am:

culldav wrote on Oct 10^th, 2011 at 11:08am:

skippy. wrote on Oct 10^th, 2011 at 10:47am:

For Pete's sake people just put your valid concerns for the environment aside and look at the structure and meaning of the TAX!!
I have, the tax is to convince polluters to change to a more friendly form of power and will cost industry not individuals as individuals will be compensated, some will even be over compensated. Now your turn, try to stick to the facts and not the hypocritical rhetoric, you see the coalition's "plan" will cost us double and achieve much less, according to the economic experts, to what Labor want, would you prefer that?
You need to do some reading about the facts instead of just watching the propaganda TV adds, or listening to the propaganda being pushed by the confusionalist earth is flat lobby.

The coalition said they would not introduce a carbon tax. You have still failed to acknowledge the massive difference between carbon taxes in Europe and State within the USA and the carbon tax Gillard want to implement. Why is that, when you green environmentalists are the first ones to advocate that Australia is NOT the only country to have a carbon tax - well how about showing us the difference between the taxes?

Has the anti-carbon tax argument now come down to picking petty differences between our carbon price and ones in other countries ?

Because they are carbon taxes surely there is nothing wrong with looking at the differences in modeling, or does Gillard have something to hide? Yes she does, because NOT ONE carbon tax in any other country or State in the USA looks anything like the one Gillard is trying to impose on Australia. Angry

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culldav

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Re: Andrew Bolt does what Gillard asks us - start with
Reply #22 - Oct 10^th, 2011 at 11:31am

Dsmithy70 wrote on Oct 10^th, 2011 at 11:18am:

culldav wrote on Oct 10^th, 2011 at 11:11am:

philperth2010 wrote on Oct 10^th, 2011 at 10:58am:

culldav wrote on Oct 10^th, 2011 at 10:22am:

cods wrote on Oct 10^th, 2011 at 10:03am:

Dsmithy70 wrote on Oct 10^th, 2011 at 9:55am:

how do you know?
I don't need to be told the reasons for a tax on polluters, it's self evident to me.

so what was the cause say a million years ago when all the ice melted and the world flooded..

what was the cause of the dinosaur disappearing..

sweet mysteries..

we can argue till forever.. but it isnt a given that man is to blame.. and a TAX will be the cure.. it really isnt..

if the boom does a bust... well it could and it will..

what then with this TAX?.. what then for the planet?

its a circus as far as I am concerned and I believe industry is improving itself..

my god when a govt has to drag up pictures of Power Stations that went out of business years ago... something isnt quite right for me.

You cannot blame Gillard or the Government anymore, its the stupid people that agree to being taxed for nothing that are the problem.

Lets see how much of this carbon tax money actually gets spent on renewable sustainable energy; reckon the majority will go to paying back the nations debt.

Aussies really are the stupidest people on the planet right now, Rudd failed to introduce a mining tax and now gillard is just about to introduce a carbon tax that will help NOTHING. Grin

Looking at whats happening now and the drastic fall in the IQ's of Australians we are so glad we sent out kids to get a proper education in Europe, and not be educated by backward hillbillies. Embarrassed

Yet you get your information from Andrew Bolt.....Who is an idiot then....Europe deserves you and your self serving parasitic attitude???

The carbon tax and mining tax are designed to create revenue to support our lavish lifestyle......Pay for infrastructure.....Provide revenue for investment in renewable energy....Boost superannuation payments.....And provide investment in the future fund.....All worthwhile investments in our nations future!!!

Tony Abbott will pay for his environment policy from the budget....He will cut $70 billion in spending....He will put a levy on business to pay for his maternity scheme but offset the cost by giving business tax cuts payed for from the budget....He will give tax cuts to everyone payed for from the budget....He will

not

allow Australia to buy carbon credits from overseas so he must pay for all Australia's emissions paying top dollar in the process.....As he has capped the amount available to fund his direct action policy their is no way we will achieve our targets....Storing carbon in soil accounts for 60% of Abbott's reductions......A technology that is not proven and at present is not counted towards targets.....So 60% of Abbott's climate policy is not even counted towards our targets and Abbott claims he has a policy....Only an idiot would accept the Coalitions climate policy as anything but a smoke screen for doing nothing.....We will be paying for nothing if Abbott wins Government.....Australia will go backwards!!!

The world is full of people whose notion of a satisfactory future is, in fact, a return to the idealised past.
Robertson Davies, "A Voice from the Attic", 1960

Gillard also allows carbon credits to be purchased overseas, so Abbott is not the only one. I suggest you read the small print Grin

No Dav, Abbotts stated policy is to only allow Australian Carbon Credits, a policy that industry has said is unfeasiable and will add billions to their costs & therefore consumers costs as well.

Quote:

Opposition leader Tony Abbott says the coalition

won't

be supporting the purchase of carbon offsets from overseas, despite calls from business and industry.

The Australian Industry Greenhouse Network's membership includes the Business Council of Australia, the Minerals Council of Australia, the

Australian Industry Group and the Australian Coal Association, and companies such as BlueScope Steel, Woodside, Rio Tinto, ExxonMobil and BP Australia.

The network says without purchasing permits from overseas, the cost of abatement might double.

Treasury modelling has found that domestic-only cuts would cost an average of $69 a tonne of carbon

between now and 2020, compared with $29 under the government's Clean Energy Future plan, which allows some overseas permits.

http://www.businessspectator.com.au/bs.nsf/Article/Business-want-more-overseas-c...

Could it also not be argued that Abbotts $69 per ton is more incentive for big businesses to change over quicker to renewable energy sources than Gillards $29 per ton considering Abbott will not let them buy credits overseas at a poorer countries expense?

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philperth2010

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Re: Andrew Bolt does what Gillard asks us - start with
Reply #23 - Oct 10^th, 2011 at 11:33am

culldav wrote on Oct 10^th, 2011 at 11:11am:

philperth2010 wrote on Oct 10^th, 2011 at 10:58am:

culldav wrote on Oct 10^th, 2011 at 10:22am:

cods wrote on Oct 10^th, 2011 at 10:03am:

Dsmithy70 wrote on Oct 10^th, 2011 at 9:55am:

how do you know?
I don't need to be told the reasons for a tax on polluters, it's self evident to me.

so what was the cause say a million years ago when all the ice melted and the world flooded..

what was the cause of the dinosaur disappearing..

sweet mysteries..

we can argue till forever.. but it isnt a given that man is to blame.. and a TAX will be the cure.. it really isnt..

if the boom does a bust... well it could and it will..

what then with this TAX?.. what then for the planet?

its a circus as far as I am concerned and I believe industry is improving itself..

my god when a govt has to drag up pictures of Power Stations that went out of business years ago... something isnt quite right for me.

You cannot blame Gillard or the Government anymore, its the stupid people that agree to being taxed for nothing that are the problem.

Lets see how much of this carbon tax money actually gets spent on renewable sustainable energy; reckon the majority will go to paying back the nations debt.

Aussies really are the stupidest people on the planet right now, Rudd failed to introduce a mining tax and now gillard is just about to introduce a carbon tax that will help NOTHING. Grin

Looking at whats happening now and the drastic fall in the IQ's of Australians we are so glad we sent out kids to get a proper education in Europe, and not be educated by backward hillbillies. Embarrassed

Yet you get your information from Andrew Bolt.....Who is an idiot then....Europe deserves you and your self serving parasitic attitude???

The carbon tax and mining tax are designed to create revenue to support our lavish lifestyle......Pay for infrastructure.....Provide revenue for investment in renewable energy....Boost superannuation payments.....And provide investment in the future fund.....All worthwhile investments in our nations future!!!

Tony Abbott will pay for his environment policy from the budget....He will cut $70 billion in spending....He will put a levy on business to pay for his maternity scheme but offset the cost by giving business tax cuts payed for from the budget....He will give tax cuts to everyone payed for from the budget....He will not allow Australia to buy carbon credits from overseas so he must pay for all Australia's emissions paying top dollar in the process.....As he has capped the amount available to fund his direct action policy their is no way we will achieve our targets....Storing carbon in soil accounts for 60% of Abbott's reductions......A technology that is not proven and at present is not counted towards targets.....So 60% of Abbott's climate policy is not even counted towards our targets and Abbott claims he has a policy....Only an idiot would accept the Coalitions climate policy as anything but a smoke screen for doing nothing.....We will be paying for nothing if Abbott wins Government.....Australia will go backwards!!!

The world is full of people whose notion of a satisfactory future is, in fact, a return to the idealised past.
Robertson Davies, "A Voice from the Attic", 1960

Gillard also allows carbon credits to be purchased overseas, so Abbott is not the only one. I suggest you read the small print Grin

Not also....Only......Abbott will not allow Australian companies to purchase carbon credits from overseas.....Meaning every tonne of carbon reduced under the direct action policy will cost much more under Abbott's policy.....Abbott supporters also fail to debate the 60% emissions Abbott intends to obtain from storing carbon in soil......Any reductions achieved by doing this are not currently recognized towards reaching agreed targets.....60% of Abbotts plan is at present not achievable unless the standards for counting emissions is changed to include storing carbon in soil.....So lets not delude ourselves into thinking Abbott's direct action policy will work....It will not work....Under an Abbott government Australia will either pull out of International commitments or fail to achieve its targets.....Doing nothing about climate change is all Abbott can offer the Australian people with his no action policy....I suggest you try to understand what you are debating instead of making such a fool of yourself!!!

Angry

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If knowledge can create problems, it is not through ignorance that we can solve them.
Isaac Asimov (1920 - 1992)

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culldav

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Re: Andrew Bolt does what Gillard asks us - start with
Reply #24 - Oct 10^th, 2011 at 11:34am

philperth2010 wrote on Oct 10^th, 2011 at 11:33am:

culldav wrote on Oct 10^th, 2011 at 11:11am:

philperth2010 wrote on Oct 10^th, 2011 at 10:58am:

culldav wrote on Oct 10^th, 2011 at 10:22am:

cods wrote on Oct 10^th, 2011 at 10:03am:

Dsmithy70 wrote on Oct 10^th, 2011 at 9:55am:

how do you know?
I don't need to be told the reasons for a tax on polluters, it's self evident to me.

so what was the cause say a million years ago when all the ice melted and the world flooded..

what was the cause of the dinosaur disappearing..

sweet mysteries..

we can argue till forever.. but it isnt a given that man is to blame.. and a TAX will be the cure.. it really isnt..

if the boom does a bust... well it could and it will..

what then with this TAX?.. what then for the planet?

its a circus as far as I am concerned and I believe industry is improving itself..

my god when a govt has to drag up pictures of Power Stations that went out of business years ago... something isnt quite right for me.

You cannot blame Gillard or the Government anymore, its the stupid people that agree to being taxed for nothing that are the problem.

Lets see how much of this carbon tax money actually gets spent on renewable sustainable energy; reckon the majority will go to paying back the nations debt.

Aussies really are the stupidest people on the planet right now, Rudd failed to introduce a mining tax and now gillard is just about to introduce a carbon tax that will help NOTHING. Grin

Looking at whats happening now and the drastic fall in the IQ's of Australians we are so glad we sent out kids to get a proper education in Europe, and not be educated by backward hillbillies. Embarrassed

Yet you get your information from Andrew Bolt.....Who is an idiot then....Europe deserves you and your self serving parasitic attitude???

The carbon tax and mining tax are designed to create revenue to support our lavish lifestyle......Pay for infrastructure.....Provide revenue for investment in renewable energy....Boost superannuation payments.....And provide investment in the future fund.....All worthwhile investments in our nations future!!!

Tony Abbott will pay for his environment policy from the budget....He will cut $70 billion in spending....He will put a levy on business to pay for his maternity scheme but offset the cost by giving business tax cuts payed for from the budget....He will give tax cuts to everyone payed for from the budget....He will not allow Australia to buy carbon credits from overseas so he must pay for all Australia's emissions paying top dollar in the process.....As he has capped the amount available to fund his direct action policy their is no way we will achieve our targets....Storing carbon in soil accounts for 60% of Abbott's reductions......A technology that is not proven and at present is not counted towards targets.....So 60% of Abbott's climate policy is not even counted towards our targets and Abbott claims he has a policy....Only an idiot would accept the Coalitions climate policy as anything but a smoke screen for doing nothing.....We will be paying for nothing if Abbott wins Government.....Australia will go backwards!!!

The world is full of people whose notion of a satisfactory future is, in fact, a return to the idealised past.
Robertson Davies, "A Voice from the Attic", 1960

Gillard also allows carbon credits to be purchased overseas, so Abbott is not the only one. I suggest you read the small print Grin

Not also....Only......Abbott will not allow Australian companies to purchase carbon credits from overseas.....Meaning every tonne of carbon reduced under the direct action policy will cost much more under Abbott's policy.....Abbott supporters also fail to debate the 60% emissions Abbott intends to obtain from storing carbon in soil......Any reductions achieved by doing this are not currently recognized towards reaching agreed targets.....60% of Abbotts plan is at present not achievable unless the standards for counting emissions is changed to include storing carbon in soil.....So lets not delude ourselves into thinking Abbott's direct action policy will work....It will not work....Under an Abbott government Australia will either pull out of International commitments or fail to achieve its targets.....Doing nothing about climate change is all Abbott can offer the Australian people with his no action policy....I suggest you try to understand what you are debating instead of making such a fool of yourself!!!

Angry

Excuse me I got that wrong Embarrassed

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philperth2010

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Australian Politics

Posts: 21097
Perth
Gender: male

Re: Andrew Bolt does what Gillard asks us - start with
Reply #25 - Oct 10^th, 2011 at 11:39am

culldav wrote on Oct 10^th, 2011 at 11:31am:

Dsmithy70 wrote on Oct 10^th, 2011 at 11:18am:

culldav wrote on Oct 10^th, 2011 at 11:11am:

philperth2010 wrote on Oct 10^th, 2011 at 10:58am:

culldav wrote on Oct 10^th, 2011 at 10:22am:

cods wrote on Oct 10^th, 2011 at 10:03am:

Dsmithy70 wrote on Oct 10^th, 2011 at 9:55am:

how do you know?
I don't need to be told the reasons for a tax on polluters, it's self evident to me.

so what was the cause say a million years ago when all the ice melted and the world flooded..

what was the cause of the dinosaur disappearing..

sweet mysteries..

we can argue till forever.. but it isnt a given that man is to blame.. and a TAX will be the cure.. it really isnt..

if the boom does a bust... well it could and it will..

what then with this TAX?.. what then for the planet?

its a circus as far as I am concerned and I believe industry is improving itself..

my god when a govt has to drag up pictures of Power Stations that went out of business years ago... something isnt quite right for me.

You cannot blame Gillard or the Government anymore, its the stupid people that agree to being taxed for nothing that are the problem.

Lets see how much of this carbon tax money actually gets spent on renewable sustainable energy; reckon the majority will go to paying back the nations debt.

Aussies really are the stupidest people on the planet right now, Rudd failed to introduce a mining tax and now gillard is just about to introduce a carbon tax that will help NOTHING. Grin

Looking at whats happening now and the drastic fall in the IQ's of Australians we are so glad we sent out kids to get a proper education in Europe, and not be educated by backward hillbillies. Embarrassed

Yet you get your information from Andrew Bolt.....Who is an idiot then....Europe deserves you and your self serving parasitic attitude???

The carbon tax and mining tax are designed to create revenue to support our lavish lifestyle......Pay for infrastructure.....Provide revenue for investment in renewable energy....Boost superannuation payments.....And provide investment in the future fund.....All worthwhile investments in our nations future!!!

Tony Abbott will pay for his environment policy from the budget....He will cut $70 billion in spending....He will put a levy on business to pay for his maternity scheme but offset the cost by giving business tax cuts payed for from the budget....He will give tax cuts to everyone payed for from the budget....He will

not

allow Australia to buy carbon credits from overseas so he must pay for all Australia's emissions paying top dollar in the process.....As he has capped the amount available to fund his direct action policy their is no way we will achieve our targets....Storing carbon in soil accounts for 60% of Abbott's reductions......A technology that is not proven and at present is not counted towards targets.....So 60% of Abbott's climate policy is not even counted towards our targets and Abbott claims he has a policy....Only an idiot would accept the Coalitions climate policy as anything but a smoke screen for doing nothing.....We will be paying for nothing if Abbott wins Government.....Australia will go backwards!!!

The world is full of people whose notion of a satisfactory future is, in fact, a return to the idealised past.
Robertson Davies, "A Voice from the Attic", 1960

Gillard also allows carbon credits to be purchased overseas, so Abbott is not the only one. I suggest you read the small print Grin

No Dav, Abbotts stated policy is to only allow Australian Carbon Credits, a policy that industry has said is unfeasiable and will add billions to their costs & therefore consumers costs as well.

Quote:

Opposition leader Tony Abbott says the coalition

won't

be supporting the purchase of carbon offsets from overseas, despite calls from business and industry.

The Australian Industry Greenhouse Network's membership includes the Business Council of Australia, the Minerals Council of Australia, the

Australian Industry Group and the Australian Coal Association, and companies such as BlueScope Steel, Woodside, Rio Tinto, ExxonMobil and BP Australia.

The network says without purchasing permits from overseas, the cost of abatement might double.

Treasury modelling has found that domestic-only cuts would cost an average of $69 a tonne of carbon

between now and 2020, compared with $29 under the government's Clean Energy Future plan, which allows some overseas permits.

http://www.businessspectator.com.au/bs.nsf/Article/Business-want-more-overseas-c...

Could it also not be argued that Abbotts $69 per ton is more incentive for big businesses to change over quicker to renewable energy sources than Gillards $29 per ton considering Abbott will not let them buy credits overseas at a poorer countries expense?

It could be argued that $69 a tonne is more incentive for big businesses to change over quicker to renewable energy sources but it will cost 3 x as much to achieve the same targets!

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If knowledge can create problems, it is not through ignorance that we can solve them.
Isaac Asimov (1920 - 1992)

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Dsmithy70

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ire futuis vobismetipsis

Posts: 13147
Newy
Gender: male

Re: Andrew Bolt does what Gillard asks us - start with
Reply #26 - Oct 10^th, 2011 at 11:44am

culldav wrote on Oct 10^th, 2011 at 11:31am:

Dsmithy70 wrote on Oct 10^th, 2011 at 11:18am:

culldav wrote on Oct 10^th, 2011 at 11:11am:

philperth2010 wrote on Oct 10^th, 2011 at 10:58am:

culldav wrote on Oct 10^th, 2011 at 10:22am:

cods wrote on Oct 10^th, 2011 at 10:03am:

Dsmithy70 wrote on Oct 10^th, 2011 at 9:55am:

how do you know?
I don't need to be told the reasons for a tax on polluters, it's self evident to me.

so what was the cause say a million years ago when all the ice melted and the world flooded..

what was the cause of the dinosaur disappearing..

sweet mysteries..

we can argue till forever.. but it isnt a given that man is to blame.. and a TAX will be the cure.. it really isnt..

if the boom does a bust... well it could and it will..

what then with this TAX?.. what then for the planet?

its a circus as far as I am concerned and I believe industry is improving itself..

my god when a govt has to drag up pictures of Power Stations that went out of business years ago... something isnt quite right for me.

You cannot blame Gillard or the Government anymore, its the stupid people that agree to being taxed for nothing that are the problem.

Lets see how much of this carbon tax money actually gets spent on renewable sustainable energy; reckon the majority will go to paying back the nations debt.

Aussies really are the stupidest people on the planet right now, Rudd failed to introduce a mining tax and now gillard is just about to introduce a carbon tax that will help NOTHING. Grin

Looking at whats happening now and the drastic fall in the IQ's of Australians we are so glad we sent out kids to get a proper education in Europe, and not be educated by backward hillbillies. Embarrassed

Yet you get your information from Andrew Bolt.....Who is an idiot then....Europe deserves you and your self serving parasitic attitude???

The carbon tax and mining tax are designed to create revenue to support our lavish lifestyle......Pay for infrastructure.....Provide revenue for investment in renewable energy....Boost superannuation payments.....And provide investment in the future fund.....All worthwhile investments in our nations future!!!

Tony Abbott will pay for his environment policy from the budget....He will cut $70 billion in spending....He will put a levy on business to pay for his maternity scheme but offset the cost by giving business tax cuts payed for from the budget....He will give tax cuts to everyone payed for from the budget....He will

not

allow Australia to buy carbon credits from overseas so he must pay for all Australia's emissions paying top dollar in the process.....As he has capped the amount available to fund his direct action policy their is no way we will achieve our targets....Storing carbon in soil accounts for 60% of Abbott's reductions......A technology that is not proven and at present is not counted towards targets.....So 60% of Abbott's climate policy is not even counted towards our targets and Abbott claims he has a policy....Only an idiot would accept the Coalitions climate policy as anything but a smoke screen for doing nothing.....We will be paying for nothing if Abbott wins Government.....Australia will go backwards!!!

The world is full of people whose notion of a satisfactory future is, in fact, a return to the idealised past.
Robertson Davies, "A Voice from the Attic", 1960

Gillard also allows carbon credits to be purchased overseas, so Abbott is not the only one. I suggest you read the small print Grin

No Dav, Abbotts stated policy is to only allow Australian Carbon Credits, a policy that industry has said is unfeasiable and will add billions to their costs & therefore consumers costs as well.

Quote:

Opposition leader Tony Abbott says the coalition

won't

be supporting the purchase of carbon offsets from overseas, despite calls from business and industry.

The Australian Industry Greenhouse Network's membership includes the Business Council of Australia, the Minerals Council of Australia, the

Australian Industry Group and the Australian Coal Association, and companies such as BlueScope Steel, Woodside, Rio Tinto, ExxonMobil and BP Australia.

The network says without purchasing permits from overseas, the cost of abatement might double.

Treasury modelling has found that domestic-only cuts would cost an average of $69 a tonne of carbon

between now and 2020, compared with $29 under the government's Clean Energy Future plan, which allows some overseas permits.

http://www.businessspectator.com.au/bs.nsf/Article/Business-want-more-overseas-c...

Could it also not be argued that Abbotts $69 per ton is more incentive for big businesses to change over quicker to renewable energy sources than Gillards $29 per ton considering Abbott will not let them buy credits overseas at a poorer countries expense?

Oh C'mon, yours and the liberals party whole argument against the Carbon Tax is the flow on costs to consumers.
Talk about cake & eating it

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REBELLION is not what most people think it is.
REBELLION is when you turn off the TV & start educating & thinking for yourself.
Gavin Nascimento

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philperth2010

Gold Member

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Australian Politics

Posts: 21097
Perth
Gender: male

Re: Andrew Bolt does what Gillard asks us - start with
Reply #27 - Oct 10^th, 2011 at 11:48am

culldav wrote on Oct 10^th, 2011 at 11:34am:

philperth2010 wrote on Oct 10^th, 2011 at 11:33am:

culldav wrote on Oct 10^th, 2011 at 11:11am:

philperth2010 wrote on Oct 10^th, 2011 at 10:58am:

culldav wrote on Oct 10^th, 2011 at 10:22am:

cods wrote on Oct 10^th, 2011 at 10:03am:

Dsmithy70 wrote on Oct 10^th, 2011 at 9:55am:

how do you know?
I don't need to be told the reasons for a tax on polluters, it's self evident to me.

so what was the cause say a million years ago when all the ice melted and the world flooded..

what was the cause of the dinosaur disappearing..

sweet mysteries..

we can argue till forever.. but it isnt a given that man is to blame.. and a TAX will be the cure.. it really isnt..

if the boom does a bust... well it could and it will..

what then with this TAX?.. what then for the planet?

its a circus as far as I am concerned and I believe industry is improving itself..

my god when a govt has to drag up pictures of Power Stations that went out of business years ago... something isnt quite right for me.

You cannot blame Gillard or the Government anymore, its the stupid people that agree to being taxed for nothing that are the problem.

Lets see how much of this carbon tax money actually gets spent on renewable sustainable energy; reckon the majority will go to paying back the nations debt.

Aussies really are the stupidest people on the planet right now, Rudd failed to introduce a mining tax and now gillard is just about to introduce a carbon tax that will help NOTHING. Grin

Looking at whats happening now and the drastic fall in the IQ's of Australians we are so glad we sent out kids to get a proper education in Europe, and not be educated by backward hillbillies. Embarrassed

Yet you get your information from Andrew Bolt.....Who is an idiot then....Europe deserves you and your self serving parasitic attitude???

The carbon tax and mining tax are designed to create revenue to support our lavish lifestyle......Pay for infrastructure.....Provide revenue for investment in renewable energy....Boost superannuation payments.....And provide investment in the future fund.....All worthwhile investments in our nations future!!!

Tony Abbott will pay for his environment policy from the budget....He will cut $70 billion in spending....He will put a levy on business to pay for his maternity scheme but offset the cost by giving business tax cuts payed for from the budget....He will give tax cuts to everyone payed for from the budget....He will not allow Australia to buy carbon credits from overseas so he must pay for all Australia's emissions paying top dollar in the process.....As he has capped the amount available to fund his direct action policy their is no way we will achieve our targets....Storing carbon in soil accounts for 60% of Abbott's reductions......A technology that is not proven and at present is not counted towards targets.....So 60% of Abbott's climate policy is not even counted towards our targets and Abbott claims he has a policy....Only an idiot would accept the Coalitions climate policy as anything but a smoke screen for doing nothing.....We will be paying for nothing if Abbott wins Government.....Australia will go backwards!!!

The world is full of people whose notion of a satisfactory future is, in fact, a return to the idealised past.
Robertson Davies, "A Voice from the Attic", 1960

Gillard also allows carbon credits to be purchased overseas, so Abbott is not the only one. I suggest you read the small print Grin

Not also....Only......Abbott will not allow Australian companies to purchase carbon credits from overseas.....Meaning every tonne of carbon reduced under the direct action policy will cost much more under Abbott's policy.....Abbott supporters also fail to debate the 60% emissions Abbott intends to obtain from storing carbon in soil......Any reductions achieved by doing this are not currently recognized towards reaching agreed targets.....60% of Abbotts plan is at present not achievable unless the standards for counting emissions is changed to include storing carbon in soil.....So lets not delude ourselves into thinking Abbott's direct action policy will work....It will not work....Under an Abbott government Australia will either pull out of International commitments or fail to achieve its targets.....Doing nothing about climate change is all Abbott can offer the Australian people with his no action policy....I suggest you try to understand what you are debating instead of making such a fool of yourself!!!

Angry

Excuse me I got that wrong Embarrassed

We all make errors when debating such complex issues.....It is this lack of understanding that Abbott and the Coalition are using to their advantage.....Abbott is refusing to do interviews where he must explain his policy....Hunt tried on Lateline but made a complete balls up and looked like an idiot.....Since then the opposition has avoided scrutiny of their direct action policy.....I am not surprised as it is a policy in climate failure....Designed to minimize cost not reduce emissions.....As it is capped there is no way we can achieve our required targets with Tony Abbott as PM!!!!

Angry

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If knowledge can create problems, it is not through ignorance that we can solve them.
Isaac Asimov (1920 - 1992)

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chicken_lipsforme

Gold Member

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Australian Politics

Posts: 7090
Townsville NQ
Gender: male

Re: Andrew Bolt does what Gillard asks us - start with
Reply #28 - Oct 10^th, 2011 at 11:48am

culldav wrote on Oct 10^th, 2011 at 10:40am:

skippy. wrote on Oct 10^th, 2011 at 10:26am:

Looking at whats happening now and the drastic fall in the IQ's of Australians we are so glad we sent out kids to get a proper education in Europe, and not be educated by backward hillbillies
LOL the same Europe that already has a carbon tax. Grin

Do some personal research into some of those European countries like Sweden; you will find their carbon tax is "nothing" like the one Gillard/greens have proposed. You will also find other European countries who have a carbon tax and individual States within the USA that their carbon tax is nothing like Gillards. Grin

Do some research and find out for yourself, this carbon tax is nothing more than a replacement for the failed mining tax and some blind Aussies cannot see past their own nose.

For Pete's sake people just put your valid concerns for the environment aside and look at the structure and meaning of the TAX!! Wink

The British PM stated recently that to meet the non binding 2050 targets that were previously agreed to, would effectively mean turning out the lights in England to meet the stated target.
He also stated that wrecking Englands economy to meet those targets isn't going to happen, as the UK's Co2 input into the atmosphere is only 2% of the total.
I took from that the reality check of what they readily agreed to has kicked in.

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"Another boat, another policy failure from the Howard government"

Julia Gillard
Shadow Health Minister
2003.

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culldav Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 2020	Re: Andrew Bolt does what Gillard asks us - start with Reply #29 - Oct 10^th, 2011 at 11:50am But Smithy, has not your argument always been that the sooner businesses change over to renewable sustainable sources the better for the planet? Wouldn't Abbott's option fundamentally work better that Gillards in achieving what YOU want? Maybe its you who wants his cake and eat it too?
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