Australian Politics Forum - What is Modern Christianity?

Sappho

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What is Modern Christianity?
Aug 7^th, 2011 at 10:40am

Helian and I have been discussing the roots of Christianity in another thread, but it is all so far removed from modern Christianity that I have to wonder... what is it? what does it mean to those who follow it?

For myself, having allowed my daughter to join a evangelical church, which didn't last long thankfully and my inclination to watch the Hilltop crap very occasionally, I would have to say that Christianity for moderns doesn't mean very much at all... beyond a feel good fix.

And then again, I am reminded of people such as Yadda, who seem to live the faith... a rare thing indeed. I have to wonder what he thinks of where Christianity is now in the minds of the masses.

Then again, thinking of the anti-theist Atheists, I wonder if all their anti religious ranting at the expense of Christians is really worth the trouble... it assumes a deeper faith that what is seen in reality. If all that Christianity is for the masses is a little feel good piffle and waffle, why all the angst against that? I mean, from what I can gauge from the Hilltop sermons, Christianity is being bended to fit modern morality of consumerism, wealth and individualism as expressed in Modern Capitalist Democracies. What's wrong with that?

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"Love is a cunning weaver of fantasies and fables."

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NorthOfNorth

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Re: What is Modern Christianity?
Reply #1 - Aug 7^th, 2011 at 10:52am

"Neo-Christianity" has become, as you say, at its most benign, a feel-good, jingoistic (ridiculous) parody of its former self.

On the darker side, in some of its perversions, it has also become a dangerous militant right-wing cult, utilising the same tactics (to ensure the adherence of its followers to its cause) that all malevolent cults use to hold adherents physically and psychologically captive.

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muso Gold Member Offline Posts: 13151 Gladstone, Queensland Gender:	Re: What is Modern Christianity? Reply #2 - Aug 8^th, 2011 at 10:31am This place has a 50% off special at the moment: http://creationmuseum.org/ Now that's an example of what really annoys me about the more extreme versions of Christianity.
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Postmodern Trendoid III

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Re: What is Modern Christianity?
Reply #3 - Aug 8^th, 2011 at 11:32am

Modern Christianity, like all the Abrahamic religions, is a sheet anchor for all those who are drowning, a father figure for those who need to be led, a niche for those who need to believe they stand within the domain of a grand scheme.

Yet, I have no problem with them from a political stability perspective. After all, their religion is probably the only thing keeping them from suicide, riots, and mental hospitals.
It's when they infringe on the pursuit of knowledge that gets my goat. When they try and interject their vague, mystical mumbo jumbo into the domain of the empirical.

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Yadda

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Re: What is Modern Christianity?
Reply #4 - Aug 8^th, 2011 at 12:28pm

Sappho wrote on Aug 7^th, 2011 at 10:40am:

Helian and I have been discussing the roots of Christianity in another thread, but it is all so far removed from modern Christianity that I have to wonder... what is it? what does it mean to those who follow it?

For myself, having allowed my daughter to join a evangelical church, which didn't last long thankfully and my inclination to watch the Hilltop crap very occasionally, I would have to say that Christianity for moderns doesn't mean very much at all... beyond a feel good fix.

And then again, I am reminded of people such as Yadda, who seem to live the faith... a rare thing indeed.

I have to wonder what he thinks of where Christianity is now in the minds of the masses.

Then again, thinking of the anti-theist Atheists, I wonder if all their anti religious ranting at the expense of Christians is really worth the trouble... it assumes a deeper faith that what is seen in reality. If all that Christianity is for the masses is a little feel good piffle and waffle, why all the angst against that?

I mean,

from what I can gauge from the Hilltop sermons, Christianity is being bended to fit modern morality of consumerism, wealth and individualism as expressed in Modern Capitalist Democracies.

What's wrong with that?

What is Modern Christianity?

Beats me!

Ecclesiastes 7:2
It is better to go to the house of mourning, than to go to the house of feasting: for that is the end of all men; and the living will lay it to his heart.
3 Sorrow is better than laughter: for by the sadness of the countenance the heart is made better.
4 The heart of the wise is in the house of mourning; but the heart of fools is in the house of mirth.
5 It is better to hear the rebuke of the wise, than for a man to hear the song of fools.

Deuteronomy 10:16
Circumcise therefore the foreskin of your heart, and be no more stiffnecked.

Romans 2:29
But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

James 4:4
.....know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God.

1 John 2:15
Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him.
16 For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.

+++

John 8:23
And he said unto them, Ye are from beneath; I am from above: ye are of this world; I am not of this world.

Jeremiah 17:5
Thus saith the LORD; Cursed be the man that trusteth in man, and maketh flesh his arm, and whose heart departeth from the LORD.

Jeremiah 17:14
Heal me, O LORD, and I shall be healed; save me, and I shall be saved: for thou art my praise.

+++

Choose the spirit, choose life,

Deuteronomy 11:26
Behold, I set before you this day a blessing and a curse;
27 A blessing, if ye obey the commandments of the LORD your God, which I command you this day:
28 And a curse, if ye will not obey the commandments of the LORD your God,.....

John 3:3
Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?
5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.
9 Nicodemus answered and said unto him, How can these things be?
10 Jesus answered and said unto him, Art thou a master of Israel, and knowest not these things?
11 Verily, verily, I say unto thee, We speak that we do know, and testify that we have seen; and ye receive not our witness.
12 If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things?

John 6:63
It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

Christians, are those who read God's word.

Christians, are those who seek their God [....not in this world].

2 Timothy 2:15
Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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NorthOfNorth

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Re: What is Modern Christianity?
Reply #5 - Aug 9^th, 2011 at 7:51am

I guess it also pays to keep in mind that Christianity has been through many permutations during its 2000 year journey through history.

It has endured both severe and remarkably corrupt periods.

Luther's extreme reaction to the (Roman Catholic) Church was as a result of his disgust at the blatant corruption writ large among the Church hierarchy he witnessed after his visit to Rome, triggering the Protestant Reformation.

The religious Crusades, the Spanish Inquisition, the counter-reformation and the rise of the militant Puritanical Protestantism are examples of its more extremist phases.

The formation of the Society of Jesus (the Jesuits), based upon a quasi-military code, admitting to the order only the most hardened and academically accomplished of Catholics, is an indication of the religious intensity of the age.

Pope Pius IX's surrender of the Papal States, only at gunpoint, also indicates the Catholic Church's determination to maintain temporal power at almost any cost. Had Pius IX been in a position to continue to wage war against the Italian nationalists, he would almost certainly have plunged Italy into civil war to maintain Papal authority over the Church's states.

Then, of course, there is 'The Great Silence'. And Protestants are hardly exempt from all culpability during this final great anti-Semitic Christian phase (given also that it was the last and the most dramatic of regular anti-Semitic pogroms throughout Christian history - Luther himself despised Jews with a passion). Few Christians of any colour did much to ameliorate Jewish suffering during the Holocaust.

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« Last Edit: Aug 9^th, 2011 at 8:02am by NorthOfNorth »

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Soren Gold Member Offline Posts: 25654 Gender:	Re: What is Modern Christianity? Reply #6 - Aug 9^th, 2011 at 11:31am 1. Are there any better ideals? 2. Are there any other human gatherings that lived up to their own ideals to a greater degree over a comparable period? 3. If yes to 2, would you rather have those ideals?
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NorthOfNorth

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Re: What is Modern Christianity?
Reply #7 - Aug 10^th, 2011 at 8:33am

Soren wrote on Aug 9^th, 2011 at 11:31am:

1. Are there any better ideals?
2. Are there any other human gatherings that lived up to their own ideals to a greater degree over a comparable period?
3. If yes to 2, would you rather have those ideals?

1. Probably, depends on who you ask, I guess. Buddhist ideals are honourable and certainly worthy of as much respect as pure Christian ideals.

2. I doubt there have been any human gatherings that have lived up to noble ideals all the time, so Christianity is no different than other human institution in that regard (e.g. Communism). There are few religious and non-religious institutions/ethical systems that have endured as long as Christianity, so, by that, its 'sins' and perversions are greater in number than most.

3. I believe Buddhist ideals would have served humanity as well (and maybe better) than Christianity.

However, human gatherings are run by humans not 'gods of light' or 'angels'.

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Conviction is the art of being certain

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tyciol New Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 13 Gender:	Re: What is Modern Christianity? Reply #8 - Mar 14^th, 2012 at 12:28pm Modern christianity is my new atheist version of Christianity where I worship Jesus alongside Batman and Superman as okay guys.
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bobbythefap1 Gold Member Offline Posts: 7026 Listen now to the rain	Re: What is Modern Christianity? Reply #9 - Mar 14^th, 2012 at 12:29pm Paedophile sex club and Money making scam.
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tyciol New Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 13 Gender:	Re: What is Modern Christianity? Reply #10 - Mar 14^th, 2012 at 12:39pm bobbythefap1 wrote on Mar 14^th, 2012 at 12:29pm: Paedophile sex club and Money making scam. Implying these were not inherent aspects of previous religion.
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nairbe Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 2587 Rural NSW Gender:	Re: What is Modern Christianity? Reply #11 - Mar 16^th, 2012 at 4:58pm What is this doing on the Atheism thread please send to extremism exposed. Christians are christians no matter when. They are control freaks that will sell out on all their values to hold an audience. Weak fairytale rubbish.
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Soren

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Re: What is Modern Christianity?
Reply #12 - Mar 16^th, 2012 at 9:18pm

NorthOfNorth wrote on Aug 10^th, 2011 at 8:33am:

Soren wrote on Aug 9^th, 2011 at 11:31am:

1. Are there any better ideals?
2. Are there any other human gatherings that lived up to their own ideals to a greater degree over a comparable period?
3. If yes to 2, would you rather have those ideals?

1. Probably, depends on who you ask, I guess. Buddhist ideals are honourable and certainly worthy of as much respect as pure Christian ideals.

2. I doubt there have been any human gatherings that have lived up to noble ideals all the time, so Christianity is no different than other human institution in that regard (e.g. Communism). There are few religious and non-religious institutions/ethical systems that have endured as long as Christianity, so, by that, its 'sins' and perversions are greater in number than most.

3. I believe Buddhist ideals would have served humanity as well (and maybe better) than Christianity.

However, human gatherings are run by humans not 'gods of light' or 'angels'.

This is generous and fruitful.

2. I am convinced that the positives of Christinity outweigh its negatives. Christianity has been around for about as long as ancient Egyptian religion had been before it and has proved to be more dynamic, more forceful in its thriving for good than the cult of Ra. It has crtainly been more fruitful in art, literature, music, poetry, science, social improvement, law, the aquaducts, sanitation, roads, irrigation..... etc, etc.

Christianity, insofar as it is supranational, has been even more fruitful than Judaism, Jews being the light to the nations notwithstaning.

3. Buddhism - meh. It is a Far Eastern version of Roman Stoicism and Epicurianism. It is for the suffering and utterly oppressed. It tells them to give up hope. Not a guide to this ide of death, even if it is true for what is (not) on the other side.

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muso

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Re: What is Modern Christianity?
Reply #13 - Mar 17^th, 2012 at 7:23am

A significant part of Christian ideals are centred around worshipping the deity's ego. So you could say that its morality is top heavy.

Apart from that, the "will of God" has been responsible for institutionalised barbarity, slavery and bigotry. Christianity is at an ebb in most places, but wherever there are hot spots, such as the deep American South, we see increased evidence of corruption. For example non-Christians have difficulty finding good quality employment in many places. Usually it's the extreme interpretations of Christianity where such injustices are done. Whenever people actually try to take the religion literally, that's where the problem starts.

The traditional versions of Christianity in Australia such as Anglicanism and Catholicism are innocuous by comparison, by virtue of the fact that the vast majority don't actually take it seriously. It's just an attribute like a family name or a cultural tradition like St Paddy's day. It's a background process. It's wallpaper, and as such it sometimes has more positives than negatives. It's useful for handling grief for example.

However Christianity in its entrenched organised form is a skillful apologist for the status quo and all the evils that go along with it. It diverts attention from the real moral problems by focusing attention on sexual issues, and when confronted with social evils such as poverty, it glibly dismisses them with platitudes such as, "There will always be poor people" When confronted with the problems of militarism and war, most Christians shrug and say, "That’s human nature. It’s always been that way, and it always will." 200 years ago most Christians would have said exactly the same thing about slavery. They even had a Biblical justification for saying so.

This regressive, conservative tendency of Christianity has been present from its very start. The Bible is quite explicit in its instructions to accept the status quo without question:

Romans 13:
Quote:

1.Let everyone be subject to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God. 2 Consequently, whoever rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves. 3 For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong. Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right and you will be commended.

Thomas More should have taken heed of that. He questioned the actions of Henry VIII, the reigning buffoon, despite the fact that his fellow Christians preferred Romans 13 to Proverbs 4:23

Quote:

Keep your heart with all vigilance, for from it flow the springs of life.

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« Last Edit: Mar 17^th, 2012 at 7:53am by muso »

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Soren

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Re: What is Modern Christianity?
Reply #14 - Mar 17^th, 2012 at 7:44am

muso wrote on Mar 17^th, 2012 at 7:23am:

A significant part of Christian ideals are centred around worshipping the deity's ego. So you could say that its morality is top heavy.

"the deity's ego" is such an obviously modern formulation as to be completly useless. Looking at religion or any other human practice that spans millenia from the consciously narrow and parochial ditch of modern psychology and sociology guarantees that there will be no understanding of what people did and why before that ditch was dug and occupied.

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