Australian Politics Forum - Should Abbott apologise to Flannery?

chicken_lipsforme

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Re: Should Abbott apologise to Flannery?
Reply #225 - May 16^th, 2011 at 11:53am

adelcrow wrote on May 15^th, 2011 at 8:17pm:

Info on carbon pollution effecting the worlds climate is only relevant if it is released by Andrew Bolt, Queenie Jones or Leaping Lord Budgie Grin

I don't think Andrew Bolt releases info on carbon dioxide pollution.
He does question however the drivel put out by others though that do put out info.

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"Another boat, another policy failure from the Howard government"

Julia Gillard
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chicken_lipsforme

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Re: Should Abbott apologise to Flannery?
Reply #226 - May 16^th, 2011 at 11:56am

adelcrow wrote on May 15^th, 2011 at 8:31pm:

Yep..Bolt and Jones have far superior scientific qualifications than Flannery.
You will also find that Flannery would happily admit to be wrong about plenty of things in his life..just like every other human on the planet.
But when it comes to the damage carbon pollution is doing to our planet..the only ones in the negative camp are shock jocks, insane inbred british lords, and opposition pollies Grin

His quals aren't the problem
It's the simple fact that not one of his doom and gloom predictions has happened.
Perhaps he should try reading tea leaves instead.

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"Another boat, another policy failure from the Howard government"

Julia Gillard
Shadow Health Minister
2003.

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chicken_lipsforme

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Re: Should Abbott apologise to Flannery?
Reply #227 - May 16^th, 2011 at 12:00pm

BatteriesNotIncluded wrote on May 15^th, 2011 at 8:08pm:

astro_surf wrote on May 15^th, 2011 at 4:16pm:

longweekend58 wrote on May 15^th, 2011 at 4:13pm:

they have been predicting ice-free summers for the past 3 years and since that has never happened how do you claim it is FASTER than predicted?

Source or it didn't happen. I'm tired of correcting your unsupported statements.

And this is what I mean, the rate of decline accelerating faster and deeper than the worst case scenario projected by climate models. I've made this point to you before, climate models are only wrong in the sense that they tend to conservatively underestimate the impact of AGW.

http://www.scienceprogress.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/SeaIceDecline_591.gif

Quote:

Polar Ice Sheets Melting Faster Than Predicted

The thick glaciers covering Greenland and Antarctica are melting faster than scientists expected

By Lauren Morello and ClimateWire | March 9, 2011 | 11

Ice loss from the massive ice sheets covering Greenland and Antarctica is accelerating, according to a new study.

If the trend continues, ice sheets could become the dominant contributor to sea level rise sooner than scientists had predicted, concludes the research, which will be published this month in the journal Geophysical Research Letters.

"The traditional view of the loss of land ice on Earth has been that mountain glaciers and ice caps are the dominant contributors, and ice sheets are following behind," said study co-author Eric Rignot, a glaciologist at NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory and the University of California, Irvine. "In this study, we are showing that ice sheets, mountain glaciers and ice caps are neck-and-neck."

But that could soon change, Rignot said, because the rate at which ice sheets are losing mass is increasing three times faster than the rate of ice loss from mountain glaciers and ice caps.

"I don't think we expected ice sheets to run neck-and-neck with mountain glaciers, which basically sit in a warmer climate, this soon," he said. "At the same time, the mass loss on the ice sheet is not very large compared to how much mass they store."

Rignot was part of a research team that also included scientists from Utrecht University in the Netherlands and the National Center for Atmospheric Research in Boulder, Colo.

The researchers based their analysis on a comparison of two different methods to measure ice loss.

Continued...

http://www.scienceprogress.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/SeaIceDecline_591.gif

INTERESTING Shocked

Back under your bed horse.
The sky's falling because someones extrapolated figures don't look good.

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"Another boat, another policy failure from the Howard government"

Julia Gillard
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Soren

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Re: Should Abbott apologise to Flannery?
Reply #228 - May 16^th, 2011 at 12:58pm

mozzaok wrote on May 15^th, 2011 at 8:48pm:

We have covered the ground on the difference between skepticism, and denialism, and no skeptic worth his salt would ever buy the unmitigated lies promoted by denialists.

That is the difference between people who actually listen to the expert scientific opinion, and those who repeat discredited lies from bloggers and loonies, the scientific opinion is reviewed and validated, by others with the scientific knowledge to make an informed decision on what they read, and if and when errors are found, they are corrected.

Very well, here is expert scientific evidence:

http://www.climatechangefacts.info/ClimateChangeDocuments/NilsAxelMornerintervie...

Although the UN's Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) only predicts a sea level rise of 59cm (17 inches) by 2100, Al Gore in his Oscar-winning film An Inconvenient Truth went much further, talking of 20 feet, and showing computer graphics of cities such as Shanghai and San Francisco half under water. We all know the graphic showing central London in similar plight. As for tiny island nations such as the Maldives and Tuvalu, as Prince Charles likes to tell us and the Archbishop of Canterbury was again parroting last week, they are due to vanish.

But if there is one scientist who knows more about sea levels than anyone else in the world it is the Swedish geologist and physicist Nils-Axel Mörner, formerly chairman of the INQUA International Commission on Sea Level Change. And the uncompromising verdict of Dr Mörner, who for 35 years has been using every known scientific method to study sea levels all over the globe, is that all this talk about the sea rising is nothing but a colossal scare story.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/columnists/christopherbooker/5067351/Rise-of-...

To paraphrase Judith from The Life of Brian, "It's not happening, Reg! Something's actually not happening, Reg! Can't you understand?!"

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chicken_lipsforme

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Re: Should Abbott apologise to Flannery?
Reply #229 - May 16^th, 2011 at 2:19pm

Soren wrote on May 16^th, 2011 at 12:58pm:

mozzaok wrote on May 15^th, 2011 at 8:48pm:

We have covered the ground on the difference between skepticism, and denialism, and no skeptic worth his salt would ever buy the unmitigated lies promoted by denialists.

That is the difference between people who actually listen to the expert scientific opinion, and those who repeat discredited lies from bloggers and loonies, the scientific opinion is reviewed and validated, by others with the scientific knowledge to make an informed decision on what they read, and if and when errors are found, they are corrected.

Very well, here is expert scientific evidence:

http://www.climatechangefacts.info/ClimateChangeDocuments/NilsAxelMornerintervie...

Although the UN's Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) only predicts a sea level rise of 59cm (17 inches) by 2100, Al Gore in his Oscar-winning film An Inconvenient Truth went much further, talking of 20 feet, and showing computer graphics of cities such as Shanghai and San Francisco half under water. We all know the graphic showing central London in similar plight. As for tiny island nations such as the Maldives and Tuvalu, as Prince Charles likes to tell us and the Archbishop of Canterbury was again parroting last week, they are due to vanish.

But if there is one scientist who knows more about sea levels than anyone else in the world it is the Swedish geologist and physicist Nils-Axel Mörner, formerly chairman of the INQUA International Commission on Sea Level Change. And the uncompromising verdict of Dr Mörner, who for 35 years has been using every known scientific method to study sea levels all over the globe, is that all this talk about the sea rising is nothing but a colossal scare story.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/columnists/christopherbooker/5067351/Rise-of-...

To paraphrase Judith from The Life of Brian, "It's not happening, Reg! Something's actually not happening, Reg! Can't you understand?!"

And of course Al Gore recently bought his new $8.9 Million luxury Villa right on the beach in California, thanks to the proceeds of his sci fi novel "An inconvenient truth".
Now, would a man who believed the tripe he wrote actually spend money like that on any beach anywhere.
I think not.

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"Another boat, another policy failure from the Howard government"

Julia Gillard
Shadow Health Minister
2003.

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BatteriesNotIncluded

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Re: Should Abbott apologise to Flannery?
Reply #230 - May 16^th, 2011 at 3:42pm

chicken_lipsforme wrote on May 16^th, 2011 at 12:00pm:

BatteriesNotIncluded wrote on May 15^th, 2011 at 8:08pm:

astro_surf wrote on May 15^th, 2011 at 4:16pm:

longweekend58 wrote on May 15^th, 2011 at 4:13pm:

they have been predicting ice-free summers for the past 3 years and since that has never happened how do you claim it is FASTER than predicted?

Source or it didn't happen. I'm tired of correcting your unsupported statements.

And this is what I mean, the rate of decline accelerating faster and deeper than the worst case scenario projected by climate models. I've made this point to you before, climate models are only wrong in the sense that they tend to conservatively underestimate the impact of AGW.

http://www.scienceprogress.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/SeaIceDecline_591.gif

Quote:

Polar Ice Sheets Melting Faster Than Predicted

The thick glaciers covering Greenland and Antarctica are melting faster than scientists expected

By Lauren Morello and ClimateWire | March 9, 2011 | 11

Ice loss from the massive ice sheets covering Greenland and Antarctica is accelerating, according to a new study.

If the trend continues, ice sheets could become the dominant contributor to sea level rise sooner than scientists had predicted, concludes the research, which will be published this month in the journal Geophysical Research Letters.

"The traditional view of the loss of land ice on Earth has been that mountain glaciers and ice caps are the dominant contributors, and ice sheets are following behind," said study co-author Eric Rignot, a glaciologist at NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory and the University of California, Irvine. "In this study, we are showing that ice sheets, mountain glaciers and ice caps are neck-and-neck."

But that could soon change, Rignot said, because the rate at which ice sheets are losing mass is increasing three times faster than the rate of ice loss from mountain glaciers and ice caps.

"I don't think we expected ice sheets to run neck-and-neck with mountain glaciers, which basically sit in a warmer climate, this soon," he said. "At the same time, the mass loss on the ice sheet is not very large compared to how much mass they store."

Rignot was part of a research team that also included scientists from Utrecht University in the Netherlands and the National Center for Atmospheric Research in Boulder, Colo.

The researchers based their analysis on a comparison of two different methods to measure ice loss.

Continued...

http://www.scienceprogress.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/SeaIceDecline_591.gif

INTERESTING Shocked

Back under your bed horse.
The sky's falling because someones extrapolated figures don't look good.

IN PERTH THEY'RE EXTRAPOLATING FIGURES TO PREDICT THERE WILL BE A WATER SHORTAGE by 2020 if they don't build a SECOND DESAL PLANT.....

Cheesy

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*Sure....they're anti competitive as any subsidised job is. It wouldn't be there without the tax payer. Very damned difficult for a brainwashed collectivist to understand that I know.... (swaggy) *

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freediver

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Re: Should Abbott apologise to Flannery?
Reply #231 - May 16^th, 2011 at 6:46pm

Soren wrote on May 15^th, 2011 at 7:19pm:

astro_surf wrote on May 15^th, 2011 at 4:46pm:

longweekend58 wrote on May 15^th, 2011 at 4:38pm:

you fail to understand the credibility of claiming ALL weather events as evidence of CC. the recent rought in australia was not unprecedented. nor was the floods. but you want to claim both.

I'm not talking about weather events,

Bullsh!t, with respect.

When there is a hurricane, a flood, a bushfire, a drought - all weather events - the 'do something about the climate' brigade are very, very happy to cite these events as proof of climate change caused by man - and woman (we want to be inclusive, don't we.).

So Soren are you saying that you agree with the mainstream climate change theory and only disagree with these people?

Do you agree that Abbott lied about what Flannery said?

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People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

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Flying Binghi

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Re: Should Abbott apologise to Flannery?
Reply #232 - May 16^th, 2011 at 8:48pm

Quote:

...sea level rise of 59cm (17 inches) by 2100, Al Gore in his Oscar-winning film An Inconvenient Truth went much further, talking of 20 feet...

Ah, yes. That explains the 35 metre house boat Gore bought.. Huh

Just in case of sudden sea level raise I'm sure Gore keeps the Limo's running at his mansion so he can be urgently flown by his personal jet to his floating palace.. Grin

http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/gore-hits-the-waves-with-a-massive-new-houseboat/

.

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Soren

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Re: Should Abbott apologise to Flannery?
Reply #233 - May 16^th, 2011 at 8:53pm

freediver wrote on May 16^th, 2011 at 6:46pm:

Soren wrote on May 15^th, 2011 at 7:19pm:

astro_surf wrote on May 15^th, 2011 at 4:46pm:

longweekend58 wrote on May 15^th, 2011 at 4:38pm:

you fail to understand the credibility of claiming ALL weather events as evidence of CC. the recent rought in australia was not unprecedented. nor was the floods. but you want to claim both.

I'm not talking about weather events,

Bullsh!t, with respect.

When there is a hurricane, a flood, a bushfire, a drought - all weather events - the 'do something about the climate' brigade are very, very happy to cite these events as proof of climate change caused by man - and woman (we want to be inclusive, don't we.).

Do you agree that Abbott lied about what Flannery said?

No.

(we've done this already, FD, don't be like a goldfish; for them it's a brand new world at every turn of the aquarium.)

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astro_surf

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Re: Should Abbott apologise to Flannery?
Reply #234 - May 16^th, 2011 at 9:26pm

Soren wrote on May 16^th, 2011 at 12:58pm:

mozzaok wrote on May 15^th, 2011 at 8:48pm:

We have covered the ground on the difference between skepticism, and denialism, and no skeptic worth his salt would ever buy the unmitigated lies promoted by denialists.

That is the difference between people who actually listen to the expert scientific opinion, and those who repeat discredited lies from bloggers and loonies, the scientific opinion is reviewed and validated, by others with the scientific knowledge to make an informed decision on what they read, and if and when errors are found, they are corrected.

Very well, here is expert scientific evidence:

http://www.climatechangefacts.info/ClimateChangeDocuments/NilsAxelMornerintervie...

Although the UN's Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) only predicts a sea level rise of 59cm (17 inches) by 2100, Al Gore in his Oscar-winning film An Inconvenient Truth went much further, talking of 20 feet, and showing computer graphics of cities such as Shanghai and San Francisco half under water. We all know the graphic showing central London in similar plight. As for tiny island nations such as the Maldives and Tuvalu, as Prince Charles likes to tell us and the Archbishop of Canterbury was again parroting last week, they are due to vanish.

But if there is one scientist who knows more about sea levels than anyone else in the world it is the Swedish geologist and physicist Nils-Axel Mörner, formerly chairman of the INQUA International Commission on Sea Level Change. And the uncompromising verdict of Dr Mörner, who for 35 years has been using every known scientific method to study sea levels all over the globe, is that all this talk about the sea rising is nothing but a colossal scare story.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/columnists/christopherbooker/5067351/Rise-of-...

To paraphrase Judith from The Life of Brian, "It's not happening, Reg! Something's actually not happening, Reg! Can't you understand?!"

Expert scientific evidence? Shocked

That's a denialist blog and an op-ed written by a known reactionary hack, you moron, not expert scientific evidence.

See, this is what makes deniers such a joke. On one hand that are automatically 'sceptical' of mainstream scientists, the people who have dedicated their lives understanding their field of expertise and have published and been cited in thousands of publications, but are willing to simply accept the the word, without question, of any half arsed crank with a PhD that claims to question AGW. This very, very selective 'scepticism is what most makes a mockery of deniers co-opting the title of 'sceptic'.

Nils-Morner, aside for promoting such science as WATER DOWSING, has been completely disowned by INQUA, his ONLY source of credibility who completely refute his claims he has made under their name. The man is a fraud and a disgrace.

http://www.edf.org/documents/3868_morner_exposed.pdf

http://littlegreenfootballs.com/article/33225_Kook_Lies_About_Lies

http://www.desmogblog.com/nils-axel-morner

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« Last Edit: May 16^th, 2011 at 9:42pm by astro_surf »

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Sep 11^th, 2011 at 11:23am:

So tell me, you'd like to see more and more craphouse coloured people in Australia right?&&Yeah good idea moron.&&

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astro_surf Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 2981	Re: Should Abbott apologise to Flannery? Reply #235 - May 16^th, 2011 at 9:31pm Soren wrote on May 16^th, 2011 at 10:19am: Excellent. Can you give us one scientific publication that that provided the evidence that convinced you personally? No, you can't. You rely on popularisers like most of the rest of us. I sure can. http://www.ipcc.ch/publications_and_data/ar4/wg1/en/contents.html
Back to top	Andrei.Hicks wrote on Sep 11^th, 2011 at 11:23am: So tell me, you'd like to see more and more craphouse coloured people in Australia right?&&Yeah good idea moron.&& IP Logged

freediver

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Re: Should Abbott apologise to Flannery?
Reply #236 - May 16^th, 2011 at 9:36pm

Soren wrote on May 16^th, 2011 at 8:53pm:

freediver wrote on May 16^th, 2011 at 6:46pm:

Soren wrote on May 15^th, 2011 at 7:19pm:

astro_surf wrote on May 15^th, 2011 at 4:46pm:

longweekend58 wrote on May 15^th, 2011 at 4:38pm:

you fail to understand the credibility of claiming ALL weather events as evidence of CC. the recent rought in australia was not unprecedented. nor was the floods. but you want to claim both.

I'm not talking about weather events,

Bullsh!t, with respect.

When there is a hurricane, a flood, a bushfire, a drought - all weather events - the 'do something about the climate' brigade are very, very happy to cite these events as proof of climate change caused by man - and woman (we want to be inclusive, don't we.).

Do you agree that Abbott lied about what Flannery said?

No.

(we've done this already, FD, don't be like a goldfish; for them it's a brand new world at every turn of the aquarium.)

You keep getting distracted before you are able to comment on it Soren. Remember the picture I drew for you?

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People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

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astro_surf

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Re: Should Abbott apologise to Flannery?
Reply #237 - May 16^th, 2011 at 9:40pm

chicken_lipsforme wrote on May 16^th, 2011 at 11:56am:

adelcrow wrote on May 15^th, 2011 at 8:31pm:

Yep..Bolt and Jones have far superior scientific qualifications than Flannery.
You will also find that Flannery would happily admit to be wrong about plenty of things in his life..just like every other human on the planet.
But when it comes to the damage carbon pollution is doing to our planet..the only ones in the negative camp are shock jocks, insane inbred british lords, and opposition pollies Grin

His quals aren't the problem
It's the simple fact that not one of his doom and gloom predictions has happened.
Perhaps he should try reading tea leaves instead.

You keep repeating the lie even though you can't support it. Other than the lies Andrew Bolt writes, I doubt you've ever even read a anything Flannery has every written. And you keep repeating the lie even after it's been shown to be a lie. You people sure do like to revel in your pig headed ignorance, don't you?

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Andrei.Hicks wrote on Sep 11^th, 2011 at 11:23am:

So tell me, you'd like to see more and more craphouse coloured people in Australia right?&&Yeah good idea moron.&&

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Soren

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Re: Should Abbott apologise to Flannery?
Reply #238 - May 16^th, 2011 at 9:54pm

freediver wrote on May 16^th, 2011 at 9:36pm:

Soren wrote on May 16^th, 2011 at 8:53pm:

freediver wrote on May 16^th, 2011 at 6:46pm:

Soren wrote on May 15^th, 2011 at 7:19pm:

astro_surf wrote on May 15^th, 2011 at 4:46pm:

longweekend58 wrote on May 15^th, 2011 at 4:38pm:

you fail to understand the credibility of claiming ALL weather events as evidence of CC. the recent rought in australia was not unprecedented. nor was the floods. but you want to claim both.

I'm not talking about weather events,

Bullsh!t, with respect.

When there is a hurricane, a flood, a bushfire, a drought - all weather events - the 'do something about the climate' brigade are very, very happy to cite these events as proof of climate change caused by man - and woman (we want to be inclusive, don't we.).

Do you agree that Abbott lied about what Flannery said?

No.

(we've done this already, FD, don't be like a goldfish; for them it's a brand new world at every turn of the aquarium.)

You keep getting distracted before you are able to comment on it Soren. Remember the picture I drew for you?

No. Do you?

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astro_surf Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 2981	Re: Should Abbott apologise to Flannery? Reply #239 - May 16^th, 2011 at 10:05pm Soren wrote on May 16^th, 2011 at 9:54pm: No. Do you? Once again, the sheer vacuousness of the denier mentality is exposed for all to see. You people unquestioningly swallow anything your are told that supports your biases. It's pathetic really.
Back to top	Andrei.Hicks wrote on Sep 11^th, 2011 at 11:23am: So tell me, you'd like to see more and more craphouse coloured people in Australia right?&&Yeah good idea moron.&& IP Logged