Australian Politics Forum - Should Abbott apologise to Flannery?

BatteriesNotIncluded

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Re: Should Abbott apologise to Flannery?
Reply #195 - May 15^th, 2011 at 8:05pm

astro_surf wrote on May 15^th, 2011 at 4:16pm:

longweekend58 wrote on May 15^th, 2011 at 4:13pm:

they have been predicting ice-free summers for the past 3 years and since that has never happened how do you claim it is FASTER than predicted?

Source or it didn't happen. I'm tired of correcting your unsupported statements.

And this is what I mean, the rate of decline accelerating faster and deeper than the worst case scenario projected by climate models. I've made this point to you before, climate models are only wrong in the sense that they tend to conservatively underestimate the impact of AGW.

http://www.scienceprogress.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/SeaIceDecline_591.gif

Quote:

Polar Ice Sheets Melting Faster Than Predicted

The thick glaciers covering Greenland and Antarctica are melting faster than scientists expected

By Lauren Morello and ClimateWire | March 9, 2011 | 11

Ice loss from the massive ice sheets covering Greenland and Antarctica is accelerating, according to a new study.

If the trend continues, ice sheets could become the dominant contributor to sea level rise sooner than scientists had predicted, concludes the research, which will be published this month in the journal Geophysical Research Letters.

"The traditional view of the loss of land ice on Earth has been that mountain glaciers and ice caps are the dominant contributors, and ice sheets are following behind," said study co-author Eric Rignot, a glaciologist at NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory and the University of California, Irvine. "In this study, we are showing that ice sheets, mountain glaciers and ice caps are neck-and-neck."

But that could soon change, Rignot said, because the rate at which ice sheets are losing mass is increasing three times faster than the rate of ice loss from mountain glaciers and ice caps.

"I don't think we expected ice sheets to run neck-and-neck with mountain glaciers, which basically sit in a warmer climate, this soon," he said. "At the same time, the mass loss on the ice sheet is not very large compared to how much mass they store."

Rignot was part of a research team that also included scientists from Utrecht University in the Netherlands and the National Center for Atmospheric Research in Boulder, Colo.

The researchers based their analysis on a comparison of two different methods to measure ice loss.

Continued...

'Source or it didn't happen."

THIS WILL FRY HIS BRAIN IF YOU KEEP IT UP......... Wink

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*Sure....they're anti competitive as any subsidised job is. It wouldn't be there without the tax payer. Very damned difficult for a brainwashed collectivist to understand that I know.... (swaggy) *

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BatteriesNotIncluded

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Re: Should Abbott apologise to Flannery?
Reply #196 - May 15^th, 2011 at 8:08pm

astro_surf wrote on May 15^th, 2011 at 4:16pm:

longweekend58 wrote on May 15^th, 2011 at 4:13pm:

they have been predicting ice-free summers for the past 3 years and since that has never happened how do you claim it is FASTER than predicted?

Source or it didn't happen. I'm tired of correcting your unsupported statements.

And this is what I mean, the rate of decline accelerating faster and deeper than the worst case scenario projected by climate models. I've made this point to you before, climate models are only wrong in the sense that they tend to conservatively underestimate the impact of AGW.

http://www.scienceprogress.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/SeaIceDecline_591.gif

Quote:

Polar Ice Sheets Melting Faster Than Predicted

The thick glaciers covering Greenland and Antarctica are melting faster than scientists expected

By Lauren Morello and ClimateWire | March 9, 2011 | 11

Ice loss from the massive ice sheets covering Greenland and Antarctica is accelerating, according to a new study.

If the trend continues, ice sheets could become the dominant contributor to sea level rise sooner than scientists had predicted, concludes the research, which will be published this month in the journal Geophysical Research Letters.

"The traditional view of the loss of land ice on Earth has been that mountain glaciers and ice caps are the dominant contributors, and ice sheets are following behind," said study co-author Eric Rignot, a glaciologist at NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory and the University of California, Irvine. "In this study, we are showing that ice sheets, mountain glaciers and ice caps are neck-and-neck."

But that could soon change, Rignot said, because the rate at which ice sheets are losing mass is increasing three times faster than the rate of ice loss from mountain glaciers and ice caps.

"I don't think we expected ice sheets to run neck-and-neck with mountain glaciers, which basically sit in a warmer climate, this soon," he said. "At the same time, the mass loss on the ice sheet is not very large compared to how much mass they store."

Rignot was part of a research team that also included scientists from Utrecht University in the Netherlands and the National Center for Atmospheric Research in Boulder, Colo.

The researchers based their analysis on a comparison of two different methods to measure ice loss.

Continued...

INTERESTING Shocked

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*Sure....they're anti competitive as any subsidised job is. It wouldn't be there without the tax payer. Very damned difficult for a brainwashed collectivist to understand that I know.... (swaggy) *

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adelcrow Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 20133 everywhere Gender:	Re: Should Abbott apologise to Flannery? Reply #197 - May 15^th, 2011 at 8:17pm Info on carbon pollution effecting the worlds climate is only relevant if it is released by Andrew Bolt, Queenie Jones or Leaping Lord Budgie
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creep

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Re: Should Abbott apologise to Flannery?
Reply #198 - May 15^th, 2011 at 8:23pm

Soren wrote on May 15^th, 2011 at 7:19pm:

astro_surf wrote on May 15^th, 2011 at 4:46pm:

longweekend58 wrote on May 15^th, 2011 at 4:38pm:

you fail to understand the credibility of claiming ALL weather events as evidence of CC. the recent rought in australia was not unprecedented. nor was the floods. but you want to claim both.

I'm not talking about weather events,

Bullsh!t, with respect.

When there is a hurricane, a flood, a bushfire, a drought - all weather events - the 'do something about the climate' brigade are very, very happy to cite these events as proof of climate change caused by man - and woman (we want to be inclusive, don't we.).

True, the Alarmist of the Year Tim Flannery is a perfect example of the scaremongering due to weather events or lack thereof.
And Flannery has been proved wrong on many many occassions.

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Soren

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Re: Should Abbott apologise to Flannery?
Reply #199 - May 15^th, 2011 at 8:27pm

Equitist wrote on May 15^th, 2011 at 7:45pm:

I dunno why lefties bother debating with right whingers, since most right whingers suffer from a toxic mixture of blinkered doGmatism and comprehension deficits...

An excellent example of what I am talking about - you would have to be a total smacking moron to side with this sort of mentality. Who wants to side with the mongs??

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creep

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Re: Should Abbott apologise to Flannery?
Reply #200 - May 15^th, 2011 at 8:30pm

Soren wrote on May 15^th, 2011 at 8:27pm:

Equitist wrote on May 15^th, 2011 at 7:45pm:

I dunno why lefties bother debating with right whingers, since most right whingers suffer from a toxic mixture of blinkered doGmatism and comprehension deficits...

An excellent example of what I am talking about - you would have to be a total smacking moron to side with this sort of mentality. Who wants to side with the mongs??

Lefties are always seeking justification for their insanity, and seek comfort from other lefties insane views.

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adelcrow

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Re: Should Abbott apologise to Flannery?
Reply #201 - May 15^th, 2011 at 8:31pm

Yep..Bolt and Jones have far superior scientific qualifications than Flannery.
You will also find that Flannery would happily admit to be wrong about plenty of things in his life..just like every other human on the planet.
But when it comes to the damage carbon pollution is doing to our planet..the only ones in the negative camp are shock jocks, insane inbred british lords, and opposition pollies Grin

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Go the Bunnies

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BatteriesNotIncluded

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Re: Should Abbott apologise to Flannery?
Reply #202 - May 15^th, 2011 at 8:34pm

creep wrote on May 15^th, 2011 at 8:30pm:

Soren wrote on May 15^th, 2011 at 8:27pm:

Equitist wrote on May 15^th, 2011 at 7:45pm:

I dunno why lefties bother debating with right whingers, since most right whingers suffer from a toxic mixture of blinkered doGmatism and comprehension deficits...

An excellent example of what I am talking about - you would have to be a total smacking moron to side with this sort of mentality. Who wants to side with the mongs??

Lefties are always seeking justification for their insanity, and seek comfort from other lefties insane views.

WHICH IS WHY TONY ABBOTT CAN'T DEFEND HIMSELF OVER HIS PRE-LIBERAL-PARTY-LEADERSHIP-VIEW THAT CLIMATE CHANGE IS ABSOLUTE CRAP!!! Grin

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*Sure....they're anti competitive as any subsidised job is. It wouldn't be there without the tax payer. Very damned difficult for a brainwashed collectivist to understand that I know.... (swaggy) *

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BatteriesNotIncluded

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Re: Should Abbott apologise to Flannery?
Reply #203 - May 15^th, 2011 at 8:35pm

adelcrow wrote on May 15^th, 2011 at 8:31pm:

Yep..Bolt and Jones have far superior scientific qualifications than Flannery.
You will also find that Flannery would happily admit to be wrong about plenty of things in his life..just like every other human on the planet.
But when it comes to the damage carbon pollution is doing to our planet..the only ones in the negative camp are shock jocks, insane inbred british lords, and opposition pollies Grin

...WHEN THEY ARE IN OPPOSITION THAT IS!!! Roll Eyes

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*Sure....they're anti competitive as any subsidised job is. It wouldn't be there without the tax payer. Very damned difficult for a brainwashed collectivist to understand that I know.... (swaggy) *

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creep

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Re: Should Abbott apologise to Flannery?
Reply #204 - May 15^th, 2011 at 8:35pm

BatteriesNotIncluded wrote on May 15^th, 2011 at 8:34pm:

creep wrote on May 15^th, 2011 at 8:30pm:

Soren wrote on May 15^th, 2011 at 8:27pm:

Equitist wrote on May 15^th, 2011 at 7:45pm:

I dunno why lefties bother debating with right whingers, since most right whingers suffer from a toxic mixture of blinkered doGmatism and comprehension deficits...

An excellent example of what I am talking about - you would have to be a total smacking moron to side with this sort of mentality. Who wants to side with the mongs??

Lefties are always seeking justification for their insanity, and seek comfort from other lefties insane views.

WHICH IS WHY TONY ABBOTT CAN'T DEFEND HIMSELF OVER HIS PRE-LIBERAL-PARTY-LEADERSHIP-VIEW THAT CLIMATE CHANGE IS ABSOLUTE CRAP!!! Grin

But Climate Change is absolute crap.
No need to defend that comment at all.

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mozzaok

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Re: Should Abbott apologise to Flannery?
Reply #205 - May 15^th, 2011 at 8:48pm

Great concept you have invented there Soren.
Obviously the denial of Global Warming has all the intelligent, and considered opinions on it's side, no loony lords, or conspiracy nuts pushing that cause with whom you would not want your superior intellect attached?

We have covered the ground on the difference between skepticism, and denialism, and no skeptic worth his salt would ever buy the unmitigated lies promoted by denialists.

That is the difference between people who actually listen to the expert scientific opinion, and those who repeat discredited lies from bloggers and loonies, the scientific opinion is reviewed and validated, by others with the scientific knowledge to make an informed decision on what they read, and if and when errors are found, they are corrected.
On the other side, the denialist side, they make unfounded statements, which are proven to be totally false, and then they ignore the evidence which discredits them, and just keep repeating their lies.

It is pretty clear cut, the science is not perfect, but it is honest, while the denialist campaign is totally lacking in any such credibility, because they most definitely are not skeptics, rather they are believers in a contrarian cause, and the only measure of worth they attach importance to is not the truth of their claims, but whether or not it suits their argument, so obviously, a lie will always serve them better than truth, or facts, because a lie can be moulded to suit your argument as you wish it to.

The denialists who choose to ignore the fact that what they believe is so totally founded on utterly discredited lies, absolutely proves to me that they have no true skeptical enquiry, at heart, but rather a desire to further a cause that they have attached themselves to, most usually because of their political allegiances.

Skeptics deserve, and receive my respect, denialist deserve, and receive nothing but contempt, for the bloody minded ignorance they promote so selfishly, and stupidly.

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OOPS!!! My Karma, ran over your Dogma!

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Soren

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Re: Should Abbott apologise to Flannery?
Reply #206 - May 15^th, 2011 at 8:51pm

adelcrow wrote on May 15^th, 2011 at 8:31pm:

Yep..Bolt and Jones have far superior scientific qualifications than Flannery.
You will also find that Flannery would happily admit to be wrong about plenty of things in his life..just like every other human on the planet.
But when it comes to the damage carbon pollution is doing to our planet..the only ones in the negative camp are shock jocks, insane inbred british lords, and opposition pollies Grin

If a scientist like Flannery, employed to communicate the climate change message, can't express himself without ambiguity, he fails both as a scientist and as a communicator. He deserves the harshest criticism and the most pitiless ridicule.
He is a waste of money, of attention, of scientific prestige.

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« Last Edit: May 16^th, 2011 at 10:11am by Soren »

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BatteriesNotIncluded

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Re: Should Abbott apologise to Flannery?
Reply #207 - May 15^th, 2011 at 8:53pm

mozzaok wrote on May 15^th, 2011 at 8:48pm:

Great concept you have invented there Soren.
Obviously the denial of Global Warming has all the intelligent, and considered opinions on it's side, no loony lords, or conspiracy nuts pushing that cause with whom you would not want your superior intellect attached?

We have covered the ground on the difference between skepticism, and denialism, and no skeptic worth his salt would ever buy the unmitigated lies promoted by denialists.

That is the difference between people who actually listen to the expert scientific opinion, and those who repeat discredited lies from bloggers and loonies, the scientific opinion is reviewed and validated, by others with the scientific knowledge to make an informed decision on what they read, and if and when errors are found, they are corrected.
On the other side, the denialist side, they make unfounded statements, which are proven to be totally false, and then they ignore the evidence which discredits them, and just keep repeating their lies.

It is pretty clear cut, the science is not perfect, but it is honest, while the denialist campaign is totally lacking in any such credibility, because they most definitely are not skeptics, rather they are believers in a contrarian cause, and the only measure of worth they attach importance to is not the truth of their claims, but whether or not it suits their argument, so obviously, a lie will always serve them better than truth, or facts, because a lie can be moulded to suit your argument as you wish it to.

The denialists who choose to ignore the fact that what they believe is so totally founded on utterly discredited lies, absolutely proves to me that they have no true skeptical enquiry, at heart, but rather a desire to further a cause that they have attached themselves to, most usually because of their political allegiances.

Skeptics deserve, and receive my respect, denialist deserve, and receive nothing but contempt, for the bloody minded ignorance they promote so selfishly, and stupidly.

ANOTHER WAY TO PUT THIS IS THAT PROPAGANDA IS NECESSARILY SCANT ON DETAILS!!!

AN INFORMATION WAR NECESSITATES A SPEEDY ATTACK(NOTHING BEATS SPEED BUT SPEED), WHICH NECESSITATES SCANT DETAILS FROM THE SIDE THAT DECLARES THE WAR!!!

Wink

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*Sure....they're anti competitive as any subsidised job is. It wouldn't be there without the tax payer. Very damned difficult for a brainwashed collectivist to understand that I know.... (swaggy) *

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Soren Gold Member Offline Posts: 25654 Gender:	Re: Should Abbott apologise to Flannery? Reply #208 - May 15^th, 2011 at 8:55pm mozzaok wrote on May 15^th, 2011 at 8:48pm: Skeptics deserve, and receive my respect, denialist deserve, and receive nothing but contempt, Lovely. Tell us how you make the distinction. Wrings hands while shuffling feet: sceptic. Looks you in the eye and says you are talking agit-prop crap: denialist.
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BatteriesNotIncluded

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Re: Should Abbott apologise to Flannery?
Reply #209 - May 15^th, 2011 at 8:55pm

creep wrote on May 15^th, 2011 at 8:35pm:

BatteriesNotIncluded wrote on May 15^th, 2011 at 8:34pm:

creep wrote on May 15^th, 2011 at 8:30pm:

Soren wrote on May 15^th, 2011 at 8:27pm:

Equitist wrote on May 15^th, 2011 at 7:45pm:

I dunno why lefties bother debating with right whingers, since most right whingers suffer from a toxic mixture of blinkered doGmatism and comprehension deficits...

An excellent example of what I am talking about - you would have to be a total smacking moron to side with this sort of mentality. Who wants to side with the mongs??

Lefties are always seeking justification for their insanity, and seek comfort from other lefties insane views.

WHICH IS WHY TONY ABBOTT CAN'T DEFEND HIMSELF OVER HIS PRE-LIBERAL-PARTY-LEADERSHIP-VIEW THAT CLIMATE CHANGE IS ABSOLUTE CRAP!!! Grin

But Climate Change is absolute crap.
No need to defend that comment at all.

NOT IF YOU'RE NOT TONY ABBOTT, HEY EINSTEIN!??! Wink

"...HELLO, ANYBODY HOME ???????????????????????????????" Roll Eyes

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*Sure....they're anti competitive as any subsidised job is. It wouldn't be there without the tax payer. Very damned difficult for a brainwashed collectivist to understand that I know.... (swaggy) *

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