Australian Politics Forum - Is Atheism a Religion?

Yadda Gold Member Offline Posts: 20982 A cat with a view	Re: Is Atheism a Religion? Reply #645 - Apr 28^th, 2013 at 11:49pm double post
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Yadda

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Re: Is Atheism a Religion?
Reply #646 - Apr 28^th, 2013 at 11:58pm

Sappho wrote on Apr 28^th, 2013 at 1:53pm:

Quote:

i.e.
In this world, we are travelling in a [moral] 'wilderness', [mostly] separated from the influence of God's spirit.
[the prodigal son]

I don't exist in a moral wilderness... I exist is a moral structure that is challenging, meaningful and beneficial to humanity.

Of course you do.

We all do.

The only [real] 'moral structure' that any of us have, is the moral structure which we build for ourselves.

And how well is that going for any of us, for the 'best' of us ?

The world corrupts us.

The 'distractions' in this world corrupt us, all of us.

Maybe many of us would wish not to live in a moral wilderness, but we all do, imo.

We are all flawed, we all make moral 'compromises', that we can later regret.

And there is no going back.

That which we do in an instant of time, we can't 'take back'.

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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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Yadda

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Re: Is Atheism a Religion?
Reply #647 - Apr 29^th, 2013 at 12:18am

NorthOfNorth wrote on Apr 28^th, 2013 at 1:14pm:

Yadda wrote on Apr 28^th, 2013 at 12:43pm:

There are many distractions in this world, that can lead us into [what in God's eyes is] wicked behaviour/poor choices.

No ?

Faith, in God's righteousness and love, focuses us our attention, where God wants us to meditate.

Reading the Bible, focuses us our attention, where God wants us to meditate.

Ironic really... You talk so much about faith... Yet you seem incapable of having faith in yourself.

north,

I'm just looking out, 'watching' the world.

This afternoon, i stretched out my hand, and i saw this object in the world [which 'felt' like it was not a part of myself], it grasped the door knob in front of me.

It was my hand.

Faith in myself ?

Should i look into this world for certainty ?

Or should i look into that small place within myself for certainty ?

Psalms 10:3
For the wicked boasteth of his heart's desire, and blesseth the covetous, whom the LORD abhorreth.
4 The wicked, through the pride of his countenance, will not seek after God: God is not in all his thoughts.
5 His ways are always grievous; thy judgments are far above out of his sight: as for all his enemies, he puffeth at them.
6 He hath said in his heart, I shall not be moved: for I shall never be in adversity.
7 His mouth is full of cursing and deceit and fraud: under his tongue is mischief and vanity.

I will choose my own path, thank you.

I have a guide.

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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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Yadda

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Re: Is Atheism a Religion?
Reply #648 - Apr 29^th, 2013 at 12:46am

Sappho wrote on Apr 28^th, 2013 at 11:00pm:

Surely a Christian is that person who identifies as one... yes? I certainly think so.

And the majority of Australians identify as Christian... so perhaps these drunken buffoons who are making our cities unsafe at night are your typical 'Christian' type after all.

Maybe some of those 'drunken buffoons' are child-molester types, too ?

Typical Christians, eh!

Quote:

But not to worry.... all they need do is say sorry to God after each drunk and disorderly session, each bashing, one night stand, abortion etc and all will be well because God is Love and Forgiveness... epic lol

Yes, that is how many Christians imagine, that it works, that forgiveness and redemption thingy.

And for an atheist, you are remarkably well informed yourself. Tongue

i

Quote:

Quote:

Oh Lord, give me chastity, but do not give it yet.

Saint Augustine

Pretty much sums up Christianity... don't you think?

Sappho,

And how is that 'challenging, meaningful and beneficial [to humanity]' moral structure that you have embraced, going ? Wink

And, are you sure, that your not drinking something [to excess] tonight ? Tongue

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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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NorthOfNorth Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 17258 Gender:	Re: Is Atheism a Religion? Reply #649 - Apr 29^th, 2013 at 6:05am Yadda wrote on Apr 29^th, 2013 at 12:18am: Faith in myself ? Should i look into this world for certainty ? Or should i look into that small place within myself for certainty ? The 'kingdom' is within, isn't it?
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damien

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Re: Is Atheism a Religion?
Reply #650 - Apr 29^th, 2013 at 7:53am

Yadda wrote on Apr 29^th, 2013 at 12:46am:

And the majority of Australians identify as Christian

Identifying themselves as Christian does not make them a Christian. Sadly there are those that think if they are born in a "Christian country" (and Australia is now not recognised as a Christian country) that they are Christian.

Thinking doesn't make it so!!

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The Coalition won!! Now get over it!!

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Yadda

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Re: Is Atheism a Religion?
Reply #651 - Apr 29^th, 2013 at 9:37am

NorthOfNorth wrote on Apr 29^th, 2013 at 6:05am:

Yadda wrote on Apr 29^th, 2013 at 12:18am:

Faith in myself ?

Should i look into this world for certainty ?

Or should i look into that small place within myself for certainty ?

The 'kingdom' is within, isn't it?

No.

Not as such.

The kingdom of God, is where the righteousness and the light of God ARE.

Think of the 'kingdom' [of God] in terms of something which you already plainly comprehend, something that exists in this 'reality'.

Light [and, darkness].

The darkness has its place.

But [wherever it goes] the light displaces the darkness.

The darkness flees from the light.

[The darkness would like to overwhelm and extinguish the light. But it cannot. And it never will.]i
Something written previously....
Quote:

....i believe that in our world [within this 'reality'], both good and evil can exist [in close proximity to each other], and both can find 'expression' - IN OURSELVES, IN OUR CHOICES.

I believe that this physical 'reality' is a 'construct' [a 'creation' if you like], where that 'expression', of both good and evil, is possible, within close proximity to each other.

I believe that what is happening here [within this physical realm], is a [spiritual] battle royal, between good, and evil.

We are expected [by our creator] to be smart enough to eventually choose, to [try to] separate ourselves from what is evil.

If we refuse to separate ourselves from evil, we will be overwhelmed by the evil.

We will become, what the evil is.

Proximity will do that.

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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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Yadda

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Re: Is Atheism a Religion?
Reply #652 - Apr 29^th, 2013 at 9:57am

NorthOfNorth wrote on Apr 29^th, 2013 at 6:05am:

Yadda wrote on Apr 29^th, 2013 at 12:18am:

Faith in myself ?

Should i look into this world for certainty ?

Or should i look into that small place within myself for certainty ?

The 'kingdom' is within, isn't it?

Frodo:

I wish the ring had never come to me. I wish none of this had happened.

Gandalf:

So do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide, is what to do with the time that is given to us.

FOTR

Again;
Quote:

We are expected [by our creator] to be smart enough to eventually choose, to [try to] separate ourselves from what is evil.

If we refuse to separate ourselves from evil, we will be overwhelmed by the evil.

We will become, what the evil is.

Proximity will do that.

iGod is clever.

Cleverer than men.

1 Corinthians 1:21
For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.

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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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muso Gold Member Offline Posts: 13151 Gladstone, Queensland Gender:	Re: Is Atheism a Religion? Reply #653 - Apr 29^th, 2013 at 10:51am Yadda wrote on Apr 29^th, 2013 at 9:37am: NorthOfNorth wrote on Apr 29^th, 2013 at 6:05am: The 'kingdom' is within, isn't it? No. Not as such. The kingdom of God, is where the righteousness and the light of God ARE. Yadda yadda Luke 17:21 Don't embarass yourself.
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muso

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Re: Is Atheism a Religion?
Reply #654 - Apr 29^th, 2013 at 10:57am

NorthOfNorth wrote on Apr 28^th, 2013 at 9:17pm:

Sure... Bearing in mind, however, that there's nothing necessarily anti-atheistic about an atheist whistling a hymn or a carol.

I know an Atheist who plays the church organ. I knew him for a long time before he mentioned that fact (atheist) as an aside. His wife is Lutheran. He doesn't find it important to proclaim the fact.

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NorthOfNorth

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Re: Is Atheism a Religion?
Reply #655 - Apr 29^th, 2013 at 3:22pm

muso wrote on Apr 29^th, 2013 at 10:57am:

NorthOfNorth wrote on Apr 28^th, 2013 at 9:17pm:

Sure... Bearing in mind, however, that there's nothing necessarily anti-atheistic about an atheist whistling a hymn or a carol.

I know an Atheist who plays the church organ. I knew him for a long time before he mentioned that fact (atheist) as an aside. His wife is Lutheran. He doesn't find it important to proclaim the fact.

More power to him...

Even Richard Dawkins admits to liking hymns.

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Conviction is the art of being certain

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Soren

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Re: Is Atheism a Religion?
Reply #656 - Apr 29^th, 2013 at 4:58pm

The thinness of the new atheism is evident in its approach to our civilization, which until recently was religious to its core. To regret religion is, in fact, to regret our civilization and its monuments, its achievements, and its legacy. And in my own view, the absence of religious faith, provided that such faith is not murderously intolerant, can have a deleterious effect upon human character and personality. If you empty the world of purpose, make it one of brute fact alone, you empty it (for many people, at any rate) of reasons for gratitude, and a sense of gratitude is necessary for both happiness and decency. For what can soon, and all too easily, replace gratitude is a sense of entitlement. Without gratitude, it is hard to appreciate, or be satisfied with, what you have: and life will become an existential shopping spree that no product satisfies.

http://www.city-journal.org/html/17_4_oh_to_be.html

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Sappho

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Re: Is Atheism a Religion?
Reply #657 - Apr 29^th, 2013 at 9:31pm

Yadda wrote on Apr 29^th, 2013 at 12:46am:

Maybe some of those 'drunken buffoons' are child-molester types, too ?

Typical Christians, eh!

Perhaps so... certainly the Christian churches acknowledge that child abuse is rife within their respective faiths... certainly the government is particularly concerned about child abuse in the catholic religious structure...

Quote:

Quote:

But not to worry.... all they need do is say sorry to God after each drunk and disorderly session, each bashing, one night stand, abortion etc and all will be well because God is Love and Forgiveness... epic lol

Yes, that is how many Christians imagine, that it works, that forgiveness and redemption thingy.

That is what Christianity has become in modern times.

Quote:

And for an atheist, you are remarkably well informed yourself. Tongue

Because I am naturally inclined towards moral behaviour and because, as Soren rightly points out morality has traditionally been the under the umbrella of religion, I tried religion...but... I could not agree with much of the morality being preached, nor could I believe in a God of Love that is in stark contrast to the reality of the universe (read that as universe... not humanity), nor could I envision an afterlife.

Quote:

Sappho,

And how is that 'challenging, meaningful and beneficial [to humanity]' moral structure that you have embraced, going ? Wink

Well lets see Christian... I'm just home from a day at work helping our most vulnerable Australians. Helped a terminally ill man get his family linked into some grief counselling because they are not coping with his impending death... helped a young homeless girl get intermediate housing designed for youth to give them the life skills they need to eventually live independently and I scored a washing machine for a single dad... twin tub admittedly... but its better than wasting gold coins at the laundromat.

But wait... there's more... I also foster teenagers with complex mental health issues.

What about you Christian? How goes your emulation of Jesus?

Quote:

And, are you sure, that your not drinking something [to excess] tonight ? Tongue

Just tea.

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"Love is a cunning weaver of fantasies and fables."

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Soren Gold Member Offline Posts: 25654 Gender:	Re: Is Atheism a Religion? Reply #658 - Apr 29^th, 2013 at 10:39pm I give a kidney and an eyetooth to the disadvantaged every day.
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damien

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Re: Is Atheism a Religion?
Reply #659 - Apr 29^th, 2013 at 10:50pm

NorthOfNorth wrote on Apr 29^th, 2013 at 3:22pm:

Even Richard Dawkins admits to liking hymns.

I am sure that there are many thousands who like "Amazing Grace" - but I wonder if they have ever taken the time to really take notice of the words or even know how the song came to be written.

John Newton (1725-1807)
Stanza 6 anon.

Amazing Grace, how sweet the sound,
That saved a wretch like me.
I once was lost but now am found,
Was blind, but now I see.

T'was Grace that taught my heart to fear.
And Grace, my fears relieved.
How precious did that Grace appear
The hour I first believed.

Through many dangers, toils and snares
I have already come;
'Tis Grace that brought me safe thus far
and Grace will lead me home.

The Lord has promised good to me.
His word my hope secures.
He will my shield and portion be,
As long as life endures.

Yea, when this flesh and heart shall fail,
And mortal life shall cease,
I shall possess within the veil,
A life of joy and peace.

When we've been here ten thousand years
Bright shining as the sun.
We've no less days to sing God's praise
Than when we've first begun.

Amazing Grace, how sweet the sound,
That saved a wretch like me.
I once was lost but now am found,
Was blind, but now I see.

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The Coalition won!! Now get over it!!

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