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Exactly why and where Islam is wrong (Read 10635 times)
Postmodern Trendoid III
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Re: Exactly why and where Islam is wrong
Reply #15 - Apr 30th, 2011 at 7:16pm
 
abu_rashid wrote on Apr 30th, 2011 at 3:44pm:
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Protestantism took the power away from the clergy and gave it over to 'the people'.
It is also a pertinent point that Christianity's cultivation of truthfulness lead to its own decline.


This just highlights the vast differences between Islam & Christianity then doesn't it. Islam from day one shunned the idea of clergy, and instead insisted the people themselves be knowledgeable about their religion.


Those two sentences do nothing to justify the validity of the epistemological and ontological base of Islam.
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abu_rashid
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Re: Exactly why and where Islam is wrong
Reply #16 - Apr 30th, 2011 at 7:58pm
 
Don't recall saying it did.

Islam need not justify anything.

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Postmodern Trendoid III
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Re: Exactly why and where Islam is wrong
Reply #17 - Apr 30th, 2011 at 11:20pm
 
abu_rashid wrote on Apr 30th, 2011 at 7:58pm:
Islam need not justify anything.




That's not consistent with the vast majority of your posts.
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abu_rashid
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Re: Exactly why and where Islam is wrong
Reply #18 - May 1st, 2011 at 12:11am
 
Perhaps you're confusing countering propaganda with justification?
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abu_rashid  
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Postmodern Trendoid III
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Re: Exactly why and where Islam is wrong
Reply #19 - May 2nd, 2011 at 10:54pm
 
What is its justification? Meaning, how is its metaphysics grounded?
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Bobby.
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Re: Exactly why and where Islam is wrong
Reply #20 - May 2nd, 2011 at 11:30pm
 
I don't believe in Gods anymore than I believe in:

witches, goblins, leprechauns, elfs, father Xmas, the tooth fairy,
or the doctrine of the infallibility of the Pope, miracles, or Holy water,
virgin births, ressurection, parting of the seas, the devil, heaven or hell.

It's all nonsense.
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Postmodern Trendoid III
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Re: Exactly why and where Islam is wrong
Reply #21 - May 9th, 2011 at 11:10am
 
Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on May 2nd, 2011 at 10:54pm:
What is its justification? Meaning, how is its metaphysics grounded?



Bump.
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mozzaok
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Re: Exactly why and where Islam is wrong
Reply #22 - May 9th, 2011 at 11:39am
 
abu_rashid wrote on Apr 30th, 2011 at 3:44pm:
Time,

Quote:
Protestantism took the power away from the clergy and gave it over to 'the people'.
It is also a pertinent point that Christianity's cultivation of truthfulness lead to its own decline.


This just highlights the vast differences between Islam & Christianity then doesn't it. Islam from day one shunned the idea of clergy, and instead insisted the people themselves be knowledgeable about their religion.


That defensive statement could be more readily accepted were it not for the fact that every time I see an act of barbarity carried out in the name of Islam, I also see muslims either declare the barbarity as justifiable, or as misguided because the perpetrator did not have the word of god they based their action upon, validated by an Imam. Indeed we have seen examples of many Imams who have chosen to interpret words from the Koran to justify horrendous acts, and as men who are supposed to be very learned in the way allah wants muslims to behave, what muslims can then claim the right to denounce these men?
Do people like the preacher Bashir, who appeared to be a prime mover in the terror attacks in Bali, receive greater authority, and deference, because they have longer, and greater learning of muslim scriptures?

Does the ordinary muslim who just wants to lead a good and peaceful life, have the right to ignore the teachings of such men?
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OOPS!!! My Karma, ran over your Dogma!
 
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Equitist
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Re: Exactly why and where Islam is wrong
Reply #23 - May 9th, 2011 at 11:45am
 



If only many of the Xtians amongst us weren't such avid warmongers - and pro-death penalty - only then would wholesale criticism of Islamic people be remotely valid...
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Lamenting the shift in the Australian psyche, away from the egalitarian ideal of the fair-go - and the rise of short-sighted pollies, who worship the 'Growth Fairy' and seek to divide and conquer!
 
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Re: Exactly why and where Islam is wrong
Reply #24 - May 9th, 2011 at 12:00pm
 
abu_rashid wrote on Apr 30th, 2011 at 3:44pm:
Time,

Quote:
Protestantism took the power away from the clergy and gave it over to 'the people'.
It is also a pertinent point that Christianity's cultivation of truthfulness lead to its own decline.


This just highlights the vast differences between Islam & Christianity then doesn't it.
Islam from day one shunned the idea of clergy,...





Abu,
What a blatant misrepresentation of what Allah says, in the Koran.




The Koran has very specific things to say about the authority of moslem clerics.

The Koran very explicitly, instructs believers to follow the instruction and guidance of their clerics, without question.

For a moslem, his faith, his very 'goodness', is entirely dependent upon, absolute obedience to Allah, and to the clerics - as a slave of Allah.

"We sent not a messenger, but to be obeyed..........they ['believers'] can have no (real) Faith, until they make thee judge in all disputes between them, and find in their souls no resistance against Thy decisions, but accept them with the fullest conviction."
Koran 4.64, 65







abu_rashid wrote on Apr 30th, 2011 at 3:44pm:

......[ISLAM] insisted the people themselves be knowledgeable about their religion.





Abu,
What a blatant misrepresentation of what Allah says, in the Koran.




ISLAM promotes itself [to non-moslems], through its adherents, by claiming that ISLAM is a honourable and beneficial philosophy for mankind.

But ISLAM's adherents insist that no one, either inside ISLAM [moslems], or outside ISLAM [non-moslems], must be allowed to critically examine ISLAM, and its tenets and precepts.

Indeed, within ISLAMIC jurisdictions, critics of ISLAM are often summarily killed, for their 'crime' of 'insulting' [the 'peace' of] ISLAM.

If ISLAM truly is a honourable and beneficial philosophy to mankind, why is critical examination of ISLAM always met with violence by its adherents???

One of the essential differences between 'Western' culture, and ISLAM, is that we have embraced self criticism.

But, ISLAM never has.

And ISLAM never, ever, will, embrace self criticism.

The Koran, ISLAM's primary foundation texts actually forbids 'self examination' of ISLAM, by moslems...

"O ye who believe! Ask not questions about things which, if made plain to you, may cause you trouble.....
Some people before you did ask such questions, and on that account lost their faith."
Koran 5.101, 102


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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31
 
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Lestat
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Re: Exactly why and where Islam is wrong
Reply #25 - May 10th, 2011 at 10:13am
 
Equitist wrote on May 9th, 2011 at 11:45am:
If only many of the Xtians amongst us weren't such avid warmongers - and pro-death penalty - only then would wholesale criticism of Islamic people be remotely valid...


Really...I thought Xtians were supposed to 'turn the other cheek'.

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Lestat
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Re: Exactly why and where Islam is wrong
Reply #26 - May 10th, 2011 at 10:14am
 
lol @ Yadda!
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HC
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Re: Exactly why and where Islam is wrong
Reply #27 - May 10th, 2011 at 10:26am
 
abu_rashid wrote on Apr 30th, 2011 at 3:44pm:
Time,

Quote:
Protestantism took the power away from the clergy and gave it over to 'the people'.
It is also a pertinent point that Christianity's cultivation of truthfulness lead to its own decline.


This just highlights the vast differences between Islam & Christianity then doesn't it. Islam from day one shunned the idea of clergy, and instead insisted the people themselves be knowledgeable about their religion.

...and we've all seen how much of a 'success' that has been haven't we abu! 9/11, London, Bali, Mumbai, beheading innocent civilians..Yep, religion of tolerance and peace.....until you challenge it and then out come the threats.
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Lestat
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Re: Exactly why and where Islam is wrong
Reply #28 - May 10th, 2011 at 10:31am
 
HC wrote on May 10th, 2011 at 10:26am:
abu_rashid wrote on Apr 30th, 2011 at 3:44pm:
Time,

Quote:
Protestantism took the power away from the clergy and gave it over to 'the people'.
It is also a pertinent point that Christianity's cultivation of truthfulness lead to its own decline.


This just highlights the vast differences between Islam & Christianity then doesn't it. Islam from day one shunned the idea of clergy, and instead insisted the people themselves be knowledgeable about their religion.

...and we've all seen how much of a 'success' that has been haven't we abu! 9/11, London, Bali, Mumbai, beheading innocent civilians..Yep, religion of tolerance and peace.....until you challenge it and then out come the threats.


Bit rich, given that the 'success' of western society is on the back of colonialism, and sending its armies into foriegn lands, killing hundreds of thousands, if not millions, over the past century or so.

Muslim attacks in those cities have resulted in thousands of deaths. Western attacks and invasions in muslims lands have resulted in the deaths of hundreds of thousands.

I don't see any muslim armies in western lands...do you?
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Re: Exactly why and where Islam is wrong
Reply #29 - May 10th, 2011 at 7:00pm
 
Quote:
Muslim attacks in those cities have resulted in thousands of deaths. Western attacks and invasions in muslims lands have resulted in the deaths of hundreds of thousands.


Aren't most such deaths attributable to local wars - eg Iraq vs it's neighbours? Or do you attribute all of those to the west as well?
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