Australian Politics Forum - Gender quotas for company boards

Lisa Jones

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Re: Gender quotas for company boards
Reply #75 - Mar 10^th, 2011 at 2:49pm

mavisdavis wrote on Mar 10^th, 2011 at 2:27pm:

Nothing positive can come from the proposed legislation. Companies will be weakened by sub standard management, and all women will be ostracized for the incompetence of the token few

Real women don`t need to be patronised.

Yet REAL women are (and have been) patronized by long term patriarchal systemic barriers .. which have engendered intergenerational inequity.

For this reason .. EQUITY issues must be addressed first .. and as a priority.

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Andrei.Hicks

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Re: Gender quotas for company boards
Reply #76 - Mar 10^th, 2011 at 2:50pm

Lisa Jones wrote on Mar 10^th, 2011 at 2:49pm:

mavisdavis wrote on Mar 10^th, 2011 at 2:27pm:

Nothing positive can come from the proposed legislation. Companies will be weakened by sub standard management, and all women will be ostracized for the incompetence of the token few

Real women don`t need to be patronised.

Yet REAL women are (and have been) patronized by long term patriarchal systemic barriers .. which have engendered intergenerational inequity.

For this reason .. EQUITY issues must be addressed first .. and as a priority.

Lovely stuff. Well said love.

Now go and make us a cup of tea please.
One sugar.

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Anyone who lives within their means suffers from a lack of imagination - Oscar Wilde

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Lisa Jones

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Re: Gender quotas for company boards
Reply #77 - Mar 10^th, 2011 at 2:52pm

Templar wrote on Mar 10^th, 2011 at 2:48pm:

I think this is a cultural issue that is changing as the baby boomers disappear from the workforce. Legislation to enforce a certain number of females is just completely counter productive and will lead many to question whether competent female board members have earned their hard fought spots through merit or the law.

I think a more reliable snap shot could be taken by looking at middle management numbers (the up and comers) and see what the ratios are there.

You cannot be THAT ignorant! Middle management consists of Gen X these days (ie my generation).

Who cares about baby boomers?? They're all retiring/have retired. My parents (both baby boomers) retired a LONG time ago .. and they're in their early 60's now playing and taking care of grandchildren. Ya dig?

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If I let myself be bought then I am no longer free.

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BigOl64

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Re: Gender quotas for company boards
Reply #78 - Mar 10^th, 2011 at 2:54pm

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Mar 10^th, 2011 at 2:50pm:

Lovely stuff. Well said love.

Now go and make us a cup of tea please.
One sugar.

If they ever legislated quotas, the boards should just promote the tea ladies into the role.

Because quotas are quotas and it doesn't matter who gets the job so long as it is a woman, even an unqualified one. Angry

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longweekend58

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Re: Gender quotas for company boards
Reply #79 - Mar 10^th, 2011 at 2:55pm

Annie Anthrax wrote on Mar 10^th, 2011 at 10:23am:

Lisa - yes. And according to the ACTU, industries that employ a predominately female workforce attract lower pay rates.

Quote:

Women in full-time paid work still earn 18% less than men or $1 million less over a lifetime

Women are now more likely to have a tertiary qualification than men, but women graduates will earn $2000 less than male graduates and $7500 less by the fifth year after graduation

Fewer than 2% of ASX 200 companies have a female CEO and only 1 in 12 board directors are women

Women retire with less than half the amount of savings in their superannuation accounts compared with men

Under the former Coalition Government’s WorkChoices laws, the pay gap widened for the first time in 25 years, as thousands of women lost penalty rates and other important job conditions and minimum wages were cut in real terms.

http://www.actu.org.au/Campaigns/EqualPay/default.aspx

does anyone have an actual real example of a woman being paid less for the exact same job? I know of no job that makes that distinction. What this argument is about is soemthing completely different which is ACCESS to higher paid jobs. it is nowhere near the same thing. The ACTUs claim that women earn 18% less in a lifetime is as acurate as it is totally pointless. if a woman take s ayear off to have a kid or three that gets included in this 18%. if they retire earlier than a man (and they almost all do) that is also included.

So I repeat. does anyone hvae an actual example of pay discrimination based purely on gender? I dont.

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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

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Lisa Jones

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Re: Gender quotas for company boards
Reply #80 - Mar 10^th, 2011 at 2:57pm

Lisa Jones wrote on Mar 10^th, 2011 at 2:49pm:

mavisdavis wrote on Mar 10^th, 2011 at 2:27pm:

Nothing positive can come from the proposed legislation. Companies will be weakened by sub standard management, and all women will be ostracized for the incompetence of the token few

Real women don`t need to be patronised.

Yet REAL women are (and have been) patronized by long term patriarchal systemic barriers .. which have engendered intergenerational inequity.

For this reason .. EQUITY issues must be addressed first .. and as a priority.

I almost forgot to mention .. this push for much needed change in terms of EQUITY IS OCCURRING RIGHT NOW thanks to pressure from BOTH sides of politics. You hear that .. BOTH sides!

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If I let myself be bought then I am no longer free.

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longweekend58

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Re: Gender quotas for company boards
Reply #81 - Mar 10^th, 2011 at 2:58pm

Lisa Jones wrote on Mar 10^th, 2011 at 10:36am:

Where is the proof? Where are these employers that are paying women less than men for doing the same work?

LINK PLEASE!

- Culldav

For goodness sakes .. experiential knowledge in the recruitment industry over a period of 20 yrs now needs a frigging LINK for someone who doesn't have a clue about gender equity and equality in the workplace!

sighs ..

so this is you saying you cant support the claim, right?

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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

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culldav

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Re: Gender quotas for company boards
Reply #82 - Mar 10^th, 2011 at 2:59pm

bogarde73 wrote on Mar 10^th, 2011 at 1:53pm:

So Lisa, answer me this.
If legislation is enacted which says companies must have say 30% of directors being of the female gender - I wonder how that would work BTW, do they just get appointed without having to be elected - If it happens and we shareholders prefer someone else, an experienced male company director, who is standing for election, don't we get a choice? And is that OK? We have to accept someone to be the custodian of our money that we don't want?

This is an excellent point, and the penis haters will not be able to successfully explain why someone should elected to a board just because of their gender.

There is definitely many professional women still out there with penis envy, and its time they got a grip on reality.

These are the women that when employed in CEO positions then start discriminating against males.

Time for women to be sent back to the kitchen and the bedroom where they belong. The woman’s role in society was always to be the nurtures of the family unit, not out in the workforce pretending they have a dick.

Maybe if women were back in the home taking care of the children and their husbands, then society wouldn’t have children roaming the streets at night or 12 years involved in rapes and murders.

Grandparents, aunts and day-care centres is no substitute for a mother love. Maybe its time women started to use their so-called intelligence and realised they cannot have everything, and its either a career without children or children without a career.

Maybe its time women stopped bludging on everyone else to take care of their kids.

Even animals don’t abandon their offspring to other members of their species to raise.

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Andrei.Hicks

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Re: Gender quotas for company boards
Reply #83 - Mar 10^th, 2011 at 3:00pm

longweekend58 wrote on Mar 10^th, 2011 at 2:55pm:

does anyone have an actual real example of a woman being paid less for the exact same job? I know of no job that makes that distinction. .

There isn't an example, not in the workplace.

Last role I recruited in Australia was last year.
Finance Manager, Australia - paying $135k base + super.

I ended up hiring a guy who was best qualified for the role.

If it was a girl, guess how much she would have been paid?
$135k + super.

That's how it works in the normal world.

I dont know where some on here inhabit.

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Anyone who lives within their means suffers from a lack of imagination - Oscar Wilde

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bogarde73 Gold Member Offline Anti-Global & Contra Mundum Posts: 18443 Gender:	Re: Gender quotas for company boards Reply #84 - Mar 10^th, 2011 at 3:00pm Lisa, I am unable to answer your question unless you answer mine, because the answer to yours is conditional upon knowing how your equity legislation would impact on the situation I asked you about. Now if you didn't follow that, maybe we could discuss it further over that cup of tea you were making for andrei.
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longweekend58

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Re: Gender quotas for company boards
Reply #85 - Mar 10^th, 2011 at 3:01pm

Annie Anthrax wrote on Mar 10^th, 2011 at 10:37am:

Culldav, I posted a link to information on the ACTU website. How about you find some information that says women are paid equally?

Quote:

I might also add that many (most) women take several years off to have and raise children...surely this harms their rise up the ladder. But what's more important? raising a family or getting another $5K in your pay packet?

Wesley, an increasing number of men stay home to raise their children these days while the mother pursues a career. Should we give the entire male workforce a pay cut because of that?

I know of no award no business or any company that has separate pay scales for women. and neither do you so stop the hysteria and provide a few facts. or accept that women have children and take time off to do so and this inevitable (and equitably) changes their career trajectory. no one is being disctiminated against.

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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

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Lisa Jones

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Re: Gender quotas for company boards
Reply #86 - Mar 10^th, 2011 at 3:02pm

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Mar 10^th, 2011 at 2:50pm:

Lisa Jones wrote on Mar 10^th, 2011 at 2:49pm:

mavisdavis wrote on Mar 10^th, 2011 at 2:27pm:

Nothing positive can come from the proposed legislation. Companies will be weakened by sub standard management, and all women will be ostracized for the incompetence of the token few

Real women don`t need to be patronised.

Yet REAL women are (and have been) patronized by long term patriarchal systemic barriers .. which have engendered intergenerational inequity.

For this reason .. EQUITY issues must be addressed first .. and as a priority.

Lovely stuff. Well said love.

Now go and make us a cup of tea please.
One sugar.

I think I had better do the right thing here and go make BOTH of us a cup of coffee Andrei... given that the last cup of coffee YOU made looked grey, tasted like cr@p and made us both feel sick!

Oh .. have I ever mentioned that my 9 yr old niece makes a good cup of coffee Andrei? Perhaps I ought to bring her into the office one afternoon after school .. so she can teach you.

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If I let myself be bought then I am no longer free.

HYPATIA - Greek philosopher, mathematician and astronomer (370 - 415)

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Andrei.Hicks

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Re: Gender quotas for company boards
Reply #87 - Mar 10^th, 2011 at 3:03pm

Annie Anthrax wrote on Mar 10^th, 2011 at 10:37am:

Wesley, an increasing number of men stay home to raise their children these days while the mother pursues a career.

For about 5 years now, I have heard a lot of talk about this.
Even amongst my friends when they are looking to have children.

I am yet to see an actual example of this from anyone I know, in the workplace, amongst my friends etc

I think it is one of those pipe-dreams that never actually happens.

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Anyone who lives within their means suffers from a lack of imagination - Oscar Wilde

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Andrei.Hicks Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 23818 Carlsbad, CA Gender:	Re: Gender quotas for company boards Reply #88 - Mar 10^th, 2011 at 3:04pm Lisa Jones wrote on Mar 10^th, 2011 at 3:02pm: I think I had better do the right thing here and go make BOTH of us a cup of coffee Andrei... given that the last cup of coffee YOU made looked grey, tasted like cr@p and made us both feel sick! I get mine from Starbucks on the ground floor.
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Templar

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Re: Gender quotas for company boards
Reply #89 - Mar 10^th, 2011 at 3:07pm

I am a consultant in a mid sized firm and generally we are paid on performance and experience level *shock, horror*.

There are women that do the same job as me but are more experienced and guess what, they get paid more than me. Should I be going to my member of parliment?

The free market is the ultimate arbiter, you are valued for what your worth, deal with it.

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