Australian Politics Forum - Gender quotas for company boards

Lisa Jones Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 39047 Sydney Gender:	Re: Gender quotas for company boards Reply #30 - Mar 10^th, 2011 at 10:18am Make that .. someone intelligent WITH COMMON SENSE .. and ideally .. someone with tertiary education? It's just that I'm getting tired of teaching ignorant, non-sensical, moronic male time travellers from the Dark Ages every time I log on these days.
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culldav Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 2020	Re: Gender quotas for company boards Reply #31 - Mar 10^th, 2011 at 10:19am What jobs specifically are you referring too Annie?
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HC

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Re: Gender quotas for company boards
Reply #32 - Mar 10^th, 2011 at 10:20am

The problem with these kinds of policies is that they are reverse discriminatory to the core. We are told to be equal opportunity employers, yet are dictated as to what terms to employ.
So the government is essentially saying- Don't discriminate, but show favour.
A company has the right to employ based on merit, not gender or any other distinguishing feature. What amuses me is that (insert minority here) want equal treatment, but when it doesn't go their way they scream foul play. Equal treatment means having the same as EVERYONE else. I have lost out on jobs to women, but at the end of the day they were better suited/qualified than me. Could I have screamed discrimination? Sure, but I think that's pretty hollow.
This is a huge step backwards, and should be met with open resistance.

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Lisa Jones Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 39047 Sydney Gender:	Re: Gender quotas for company boards Reply #33 - Mar 10^th, 2011 at 10:21am The government should be addressing the 18% gender pay gap first. Many women are paid less than men for doing the exact same job. - Annie Agreed! In some cases .. women are more skilled and are being paid less within the same job.
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Lisa Jones

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Re: Gender quotas for company boards
Reply #34 - Mar 10^th, 2011 at 10:22am

HC wrote on Mar 10^th, 2011 at 10:20am:

The problem with these kinds of policies is that they are reverse discriminatory to the core. We are told to be equal opportunity employers, yet are dictated as to what terms to employ.
So the government is essentially saying- Don't discriminate, but show favour.
A company has the right to employ based on merit, not gender or any other distinguishing feature. What amuses me is that (insert minority here) want equal treatment, but when it doesn't go their way they scream foul play. Equal treatment means having the same as EVERYONE else. I have lost out on jobs to women, but at the end of the day they were better suited/qualified than me. Could I have screamed discrimination? Sure, but I think that's pretty hollow.
This is a huge step backwards, and should be met with open resistance.

Obviously you don't know the difference btwn equity and equality and how these co-function ... sighs.

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Re: Gender quotas for company boards
Reply #35 - Mar 10^th, 2011 at 10:23am

Annie Anthrax wrote on Mar 10^th, 2011 at 10:17am:

The government should be addressing the 18% gender pay gap first. Many women are paid less than men for doing the exact same job.

I get paid differently to others in my company who do the same job - it is upto the individual to negotiate their terms and conditions. I suspect the general reluctance of women to negotiate hard is the reason for any pay difference, not discrimination.
18% sounds bad, but that's not for the same job, it's overall, and to be expected when you consdier the different female or male dominated industries....you wouldn't expect a retail assiatant (traditionally female dominated) to be paid the same as a tradesman ( male dominated)

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Annie Anthrax

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Re: Gender quotas for company boards
Reply #36 - Mar 10^th, 2011 at 10:23am

Lisa - yes. And according to the ACTU, industries that employ a predominately female workforce attract lower pay rates.

Quote:

Women in full-time paid work still earn 18% less than men or $1 million less over a lifetime

Women are now more likely to have a tertiary qualification than men, but women graduates will earn $2000 less than male graduates and $7500 less by the fifth year after graduation

Fewer than 2% of ASX 200 companies have a female CEO and only 1 in 12 board directors are women

Women retire with less than half the amount of savings in their superannuation accounts compared with men

Under the former Coalition Government’s WorkChoices laws, the pay gap widened for the first time in 25 years, as thousands of women lost penalty rates and other important job conditions and minimum wages were cut in real terms.

http://www.actu.org.au/Campaigns/EqualPay/default.aspx

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Annie Anthrax

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Re: Gender quotas for company boards
Reply #37 - Mar 10^th, 2011 at 10:27am

... wrote on Mar 10^th, 2011 at 10:23am:

Annie Anthrax wrote on Mar 10^th, 2011 at 10:17am:

The government should be addressing the 18% gender pay gap first. Many women are paid less than men for doing the exact same job.

I get paid differently to others in my company who do the same job - it is upto the individual to negotiate their terms and conditions. I suspect the general reluctance of women to negotiate hard is the reason for any pay difference, not discrimination.
18% sounds bad, but that's not for the same job, it's overall, and to be expected when you consdier the different female or male dominated industries....you wouldn't expect a retail assiatant (traditionally female dominated) to be paid the same as a tradesman ( male dominated)

So which is it, Wesley? Are women soft and unable to negotiate in their own best interests, or do we just make up the majority of the workforce in inferior industries?

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Lisa Jones

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Re: Gender quotas for company boards
Reply #38 - Mar 10^th, 2011 at 10:30am

Annie Anthrax wrote on Mar 10^th, 2011 at 10:23am:

Yes. And according to the ACTU, industries that employ a predominately female workforce attract lower pay rates.

Quote:

Women in full-time paid work still earn 18% less than men or $1 million less over a lifetime

Women are now more likely to have a tertiary qualification than men, but women graduates will earn $2000 less than male graduates and $7500 less by the fifth year after graduation

Fewer than 2% of ASX 200 companies have a female CEO and only 1 in 12 board directors are women

Women retire with less than half the amount of savings in their superannuation accounts compared with men

Under the former Coalition Government’s WorkChoices laws, the pay gap widened for the first time in 25 years, as thousands of women lost penalty rates and other important job conditions and minimum wages were cut in real terms.

http://www.actu.org.au/Campaigns/EqualPay/default.aspx

What amazes me about all this? The males who whinge and advocate for NO CHANGE .. do so knowing full well their mothers, wives, sisters, nieces, daughters and grand daughters are going to end up suffering/losing out as a result.

In short .. they couldn't give a damn/fail to SEE how this affects the women in their own lives AND they don't/refuse to understand how ultimately this will affect THEM also.

I have a word for this short sighted attitude -- > DUMB!

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Re: Gender quotas for company boards
Reply #39 - Mar 10^th, 2011 at 10:30am

Annie Anthrax wrote on Mar 10^th, 2011 at 10:27am:

... wrote on Mar 10^th, 2011 at 10:23am:

Annie Anthrax wrote on Mar 10^th, 2011 at 10:17am:

The government should be addressing the 18% gender pay gap first. Many women are paid less than men for doing the exact same job.

I get paid differently to others in my company who do the same job - it is upto the individual to negotiate their terms and conditions. I suspect the general reluctance of women to negotiate hard is the reason for any pay difference, not discrimination.
18% sounds bad, but that's not for the same job, it's overall, and to be expected when you consdier the different female or male dominated industries....you wouldn't expect a retail assiatant (traditionally female dominated) to be paid the same as a tradesman ( male dominated)

So which is it, Wesley? Are women soft and unable to negotiate in their own best interests, or do we just make up the majority of the workforce in inferior industries?

a little from column A, a little from column B...

I might also add that many (most) women take several years off to have and raise children...surely this harms their rise up the ladder. But what's more important? raising a family or getting another $5K in your pay packet?

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culldav

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Re: Gender quotas for company boards
Reply #40 - Mar 10^th, 2011 at 10:31am

Lisa Jones wrote on Mar 10^th, 2011 at 10:21am:

The government should be addressing the 18% gender pay gap first. Many women are paid less than men for doing the exact same job.

- Annie

Agreed! In some cases .. women are more skilled and are being paid less within the same job.

Where is the proof? Where are these employers that are paying women less than men for doing the same work?

LINK PLEASE

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Lisa Jones

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Re: Gender quotas for company boards
Reply #41 - Mar 10^th, 2011 at 10:36am

Where is the proof? Where are these employers that are paying women less than men for doing the same work?

LINK PLEASE!

- Culldav

For goodness sakes .. experiential knowledge in the recruitment industry over a period of 20 yrs now needs a frigging LINK for someone who doesn't have a clue about gender equity and equality in the workplace!

sighs ..

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Annie Anthrax

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Re: Gender quotas for company boards
Reply #42 - Mar 10^th, 2011 at 10:37am

Culldav, I posted a link to information on the ACTU website. How about you find some information that says women are paid equally?

Quote:

I might also add that many (most) women take several years off to have and raise children...surely this harms their rise up the ladder. But what's more important? raising a family or getting another $5K in your pay packet?

Wesley, an increasing number of men stay home to raise their children these days while the mother pursues a career. Should we give the entire male workforce a pay cut because of that?

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Re: Gender quotas for company boards
Reply #43 - Mar 10^th, 2011 at 10:43am

Annie Anthrax wrote on Mar 10^th, 2011 at 10:37am:

Culldav, I posted a link to information on the ACTU website. How about you find some information that says women are paid equally?

Quote:

I might also add that many (most) women take several years off to have and raise children...surely this harms their rise up the ladder. But what's more important? raising a family or getting another $5K in your pay packet?

Wesley, an increasing number of men stay home to raise their children these days while the mother pursues a career. Should we give the entire male workforce a pay cut because of that?

Nar, it's not that you get a pay CUT, but you tend to get pay rises as you spend more time with one company. So if you take a few years off to raise the kids, you're obviously going to have to 'start afresh' with a new employer. I have got rises of about 30% since I started in this job 4 years ago....but if I quit and went to a new company, I wouldn't get these 'loyalty' pay rises.

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culldav

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Re: Gender quotas for company boards
Reply #44 - Mar 10^th, 2011 at 10:46am

Lisa Jones wrote on Mar 10^th, 2011 at 10:36am:

Where is the proof? Where are these employers that are paying women less than men for doing the same work?

LINK PLEASE!

- Culldav

For goodness sakes .. experiential knowledge in the recruitment industry over a period of 20 yrs now needs a frigging LINK for someone who doesn't have a clue about gender equity and equality in the workplace!

sighs ..

Lisa, the ACTU link had no factual evidence to support your claims, it was just goo goo gar gar. I can pull facts and figures out of my bum too, but that doesn’t make it the truth.

If you cannot provide a LINK then its time to pull up you panties ladies and stop being whinging whining penis haters, because everyone regardless of gender gets discriminated against at one stage or another in this life whether you like it or not.

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