Australian Politics Forum - Gender quotas for company boards

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Re: Gender quotas for company boards
Reply #150 - Mar 11^th, 2011 at 11:11am

Annie Anthrax wrote on Mar 11^th, 2011 at 11:07am:

Quote:

I think we should also stick to the parameters of mainstream companies and businesses in Australia when debating this issues, and not rely on backyard sweatshops as a precedent.

Why? Do women who work in sweatshops not count?

About as much as men who work in sweatshops.
Besides, they're illegal to start with, so why would they regard any ruling about gender quotas etc, when they don't even abide by things like minimum wages or conditions.

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culldav Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 2020	Re: Gender quotas for company boards Reply #151 - Mar 11^th, 2011 at 11:22am Annie, sweatshops are really not the general rule of thumb. These businesses are generally illegal and renowned for exploiting women, men and child labour equally; that’s why you have to frame a parameter for a intellectual debate.
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Annie Anthrax

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Re: Gender quotas for company boards
Reply #152 - Mar 11^th, 2011 at 11:28am

Apparently, textile and footwear companies in Australia outsource up to 75% of their work to women who work from home. For about $2.00 an hour. These women aren't necessarily illegals - they're mostly women who might find it difficult to find employment because they're lacking in basic skills, but are doing their best to support their families.

The current structure of our society enables exploitation of women in particular because they know that women will sacrifice more for their families when push comes to shove. There's a great article about that in the NYT if you want me to find you a link.

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Re: Gender quotas for company boards
Reply #153 - Mar 11^th, 2011 at 11:29am

Annie Anthrax wrote on Mar 11^th, 2011 at 11:28am:

Apparently, textile and footwear companies outsource up to 75% of their work to women who work from home. For about $2.00 an hour. These women aren't necessarily illegals - they're mostly women who might find it difficult to find employment because they're lacking in basic skills, but are doing their best to support their families.

The current structure of our society enables exploitation of women in particular because they know that women will sacrifice more for their families when push comes to shove. There's a great article about that in the NYT if you want me to find you a link.

You're joking...right??? Please tell me you're joking.

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Annie Anthrax Gold Member Offline Posts: 7062 Gender:	Re: Gender quotas for company boards Reply #154 - Mar 11^th, 2011 at 11:32am Quote: About as much as men who work in sweatshops. It's different, Wesley. Don't get me wrong. I find the expolitation of anyone abhorrent - regardless of gender. The fact remains that women who are exploited and voiceless are far more vulnerable than men.
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Bobby. Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 117981 Melbourne Gender:	Re: Gender quotas for company boards Reply #155 - Mar 11^th, 2011 at 11:37am I thought if you made tough decisions you have to have balls? A woman might be too sentimental to get rid of the dead wood in a company. That costs the shareholders money.
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Annie Anthrax

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Re: Gender quotas for company boards
Reply #156 - Mar 11^th, 2011 at 11:39am

I'm deadly serious.

Quote:

WHY DO MICROFINANCE organizations usually focus their assistance on women? And why does everyone benefit when women enter the work force and bring home regular pay checks? One reason involves the dirty little secret of global poverty: some of the most wretched suffering is caused not just by low incomes but also by unwise spending by the poor — especially by men. Surprisingly frequently, we’ve come across a mother mourning a child who has just died of malaria for want of a $5 mosquito bed net; the mother says that the family couldn’t afford a bed net and she means it, but then we find the father at a nearby bar. He goes three evenings a week to the bar, spending $5 each week.

Our interviews and perusal of the data available suggest that the poorest families in the world spend approximately 10 times as much (20 percent of their incomes on average) on a combination of alcohol, prostitution, candy, sugary drinks and lavish feasts as they do on educating their children (2 percent). If poor families spent only as much on educating their children as they do on beer and prostitutes, there would be a breakthrough in the prospects of poor countries. Girls, since they are the ones kept home from school now, would be the biggest beneficiaries. Moreover, one way to reallocate family expenditures in this way is to put more money in the hands of women. A series of studies has found that when women hold assets or gain incomes, family money is more likely to be spent on nutrition, medicine and housing, and consequently children are healthier.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/23/magazine/23Women-t.html?pagewanted=1&_r=1#

Read it. It's good.

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Re: Gender quotas for company boards
Reply #157 - Mar 11^th, 2011 at 11:40am

Bobby. wrote on Mar 11^th, 2011 at 11:37am:

I thought if you made tough decisions you have to have balls?

A woman might be too sentimental to get rid
of the dead wood in a company.
That costs the shareholders money.

I doubt that type of woman, or man for that matter, would make it so far in business to be considered to be a board member.

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Re: Gender quotas for company boards
Reply #158 - Mar 11^th, 2011 at 11:42am

Annie Anthrax wrote on Mar 11^th, 2011 at 11:39am:

I'm deadly serious.

Quote:

WHY DO MICROFINANCE organizations usually focus their assistance on women? And why does everyone benefit when women enter the work force and bring home regular pay checks? One reason involves the dirty little secret of global poverty: some of the most wretched suffering is caused not just by low incomes but also by unwise spending by the poor — especially by men. Surprisingly frequently, we’ve come across a mother mourning a child who has just died of malaria for want of a $5 mosquito bed net; the mother says that the family couldn’t afford a bed net and she means it, but then we find the father at a nearby bar. He goes three evenings a week to the bar, spending $5 each week.

Our interviews and perusal of the data available suggest that the poorest families in the world spend approximately 10 times as much (20 percent of their incomes on average) on a combination of alcohol, prostitution, candy, sugary drinks and lavish feasts as they do on educating their children (2 percent). If poor families spent only as much on educating their children as they do on beer and prostitutes, there would be a breakthrough in the prospects of poor countries. Girls, since they are the ones kept home from school now, would be the biggest beneficiaries. Moreover, one way to reallocate family expenditures in this way is to put more money in the hands of women. A series of studies has found that when women hold assets or gain incomes, family money is more likely to be spent on nutrition, medicine and housing, and consequently children are healthier.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/23/magazine/23Women-t.html?pagewanted=1&_r=1#

Read it. It's good.

Hmm...s'not the way it works in my life, but for sure there's blokes who piss their life away, just as there are women who spend their whole day shopping for shoes and handbags while hubby works his arse off to pay for it.

I've sacrificed a helluva lot for mine, and don't regret it one bit. I don't really think I'm the exception to the rule.

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frenchyjen70

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Re: Gender quotas for company boards
Reply #159 - Mar 11^th, 2011 at 11:54am

culldav wrote on Mar 11^th, 2011 at 10:19am:

Lisa Jones wrote on Mar 11^th, 2011 at 9:54am:

culldav wrote on Mar 11^th, 2011 at 9:25am:

Lisa,

You have advocated your self intelligence as a University educated individual, but you have failed one of the guiding simplistic rules of using critical analysis when debating as issue.

The ACTU released these “off-the-cuff” statements that women are being paid less than men, but in their media statement, and on the link you provided no large or mum & dad business or company was named to substantiate their claims or your accusations.

The ALP has instructed the ACTC to use women’s wage equality as a distraction and ruse tactic for a Government under media and public siege for introducing carbon tax without a mandate.

This is the worst thing about some women who still have penis envy and that is, as soon as a feminist issue is raised that seems like they are being taken advantage off, they immediately jump on the bandwagon regardless of facts just so they can get one up on the men.

No one is saying that in some point in time that some women were not paid the same as men for doing the same job, but you would be hard pressed today to find any reputable business or company that doesn’t pay equal wages to males and female.

The only example I could assume still exists would be in backyard sweatshops, but that has more to do with labour coats than gender.

>> groans <<

Where do I start here?

I might not be as educated as you Lisa, but I think a good starting point would be for you and the ACTU to substantiate your claims that female workers are being paid less wages then males for doing the same job.

Substantiated evidence would include a company or business that has recently been prosecuted for under paying women.

I think we should also stick to the parameters of mainstream companies and businesses in Australia when debating this issues, and not rely on backyard sweatshops as a precedent.

Does that sound fair and reasonable?

I look forward to reading your link.

Do you really think that you should be sticking to facts on this topic?
When hysteria seems to be quite the norm for some people.

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culldav

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Re: Gender quotas for company boards
Reply #160 - Mar 11^th, 2011 at 1:33pm

frenchyjen70 wrote on Mar 11^th, 2011 at 11:54am:

culldav wrote on Mar 11^th, 2011 at 10:19am:

Lisa Jones wrote on Mar 11^th, 2011 at 9:54am:

culldav wrote on Mar 11^th, 2011 at 9:25am:

Lisa,

You have advocated your self intelligence as a University educated individual, but you have failed one of the guiding simplistic rules of using critical analysis when debating as issue.

The ACTU released these “off-the-cuff” statements that women are being paid less than men, but in their media statement, and on the link you provided no large or mum & dad business or company was named to substantiate their claims or your accusations.

The ALP has instructed the ACTC to use women’s wage equality as a distraction and ruse tactic for a Government under media and public siege for introducing carbon tax without a mandate.

This is the worst thing about some women who still have penis envy and that is, as soon as a feminist issue is raised that seems like they are being taken advantage off, they immediately jump on the bandwagon regardless of facts just so they can get one up on the men.

No one is saying that in some point in time that some women were not paid the same as men for doing the same job, but you would be hard pressed today to find any reputable business or company that doesn’t pay equal wages to males and female.

The only example I could assume still exists would be in backyard sweatshops, but that has more to do with labour coats than gender.

>> groans <<

Where do I start here?

I might not be as educated as you Lisa, but I think a good starting point would be for you and the ACTU to substantiate your claims that female workers are being paid less wages then males for doing the same job.

Substantiated evidence would include a company or business that has recently been prosecuted for under paying women.

I think we should also stick to the parameters of mainstream companies and businesses in Australia when debating this issues, and not rely on backyard sweatshops as a precedent.

Does that sound fair and reasonable?

I look forward to reading your link.

Do you really think that you should be sticking to facts on this topic?
When hysteria seems to be quite the norm for some people.

Good point, considering not one business or company has been named and shamed in paying women lower wages then men for doing the same job within the last 12 months or so.

All hysteria and assumptions.

As my wife says, this sort of issue soon separates the penis haters from the real women wanting equality for everyone not just themselves.

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frenchyjen70

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Re: Gender quotas for company boards
Reply #161 - Mar 12^th, 2011 at 6:49am

Surely it makes more sense to have a quota for left-handed people to be on boards. As afterall there maybe a link to which is your dominant side of your thought process.
"In general the left and right hemispheres of your brain process information in different ways. We tend to process information using our dominant side. However, the learning and thinking process is enhanced when both side of the brain participate in a balanced manner.

...The left side of the brain processes information in a linear manner. It processes from part to whole. It takes pieces, lines them up, and arranges them in a logical order; then it draws conclusions. The right brain however, processes from whole to parts, holistically. It starts with the answer. It sees the big picture first, not the details. "

http://www.web-us.com/brain/lrbrain.html

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Lisa Jones Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 39047 Sydney Gender:	Re: Gender quotas for company boards Reply #162 - Mar 12^th, 2011 at 8:02am COULD WE ALL IGNORE THE TROLL FRENCHYJEN70. This id has cloned a Yahoo persona and has attempted to deceive in making us think it is the original person who has posted on Yahoo for many years with us. http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1299757678/34#34
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Lisa Jones

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Re: Gender quotas for company boards
Reply #163 - Mar 12^th, 2011 at 8:08am

Annie Anthrax wrote on Mar 11^th, 2011 at 11:28am:

Apparently, textile and footwear companies in Australia outsource up to 75% of their work to women who work from home. For about $2.00 an hour. These women aren't necessarily illegals - they're mostly women who might find it difficult to find employment because they're lacking in basic skills, but are doing their best to support their families.

The current structure of our society enables exploitation of women in particular because they know that women will sacrifice more for their families when push comes to shove. There's a great article about that in the NYT if you want me to find you a link.

You're talking about obvious cases here Annie ie the types we often hear about (for lower class unqualified/unskilled people ). There is nothing wrong with that. It's just that I find it amazing that these examples often distract us from the fact that the same type of BS is happening in other areas too.

In which other areas? In other (more professional) industries gender inequality is just as REAL and is HIDDEN and PROTECTED by the old boys network.

Hence why we have proposed legislation to "force change".

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If I let myself be bought then I am no longer free.

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tickfen Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 1405 Gender:	Re: Gender quotas for company boards Reply #164 - Mar 12^th, 2011 at 10:29am a womans place is in the kitchen and if they do a good job there we take them into the bedroom to give them they raise they need whats the problem, why they upset about that arrangement - its a win -win situation bwaaaaaaaaaaahaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
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