Australian Politics Forum - 2011's Big Issue

Dsmithy70

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Re: 2011's Big Issue
Reply #15 - Jan 23^rd, 2011 at 2:21pm

____ wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2011 at 2:10pm:

dsmithy, I notice you made no mention on a carbon price. It was labor's backflip on the anti environment ETS that began the downfall of Mr Rudd. Is Labor that dumb that they will either put human caused climate change into the too hard basket, or worse, try and con Australians again with weak targets and reverse policies.

If they do then they risk Julia Gillard as leader, and losing her will be a major blow for Labor.

I'm pretty sure it was DNA who said this(Carbon Price) will be a major policy platform for the next election.
She cant just ram it through after campaigning on not introducing one during her term, the liberals quite rightly would be unrelenting in ramming the message of dishonesty home..
It will be like the GST for Labor negating the Liberals attack ads with their own words.
I agree with him totally, its the next elections major issue and the public will decide.

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Re: 2011's Big Issue
Reply #16 - Jan 23^rd, 2011 at 2:21pm

Yet did you suffer personally from the Catastrophic Victorian Wildfires or will you be inflicted by higher food prices, loss of employment, destruction of property, loss of family or friends from the killer floods Andrei.

I suppose next you will be saying CO2 isn't a greenhouse gas and coal pollution doesn't warm the environment so increasing the intensity of weather/climate extremes.

Short sighted on climate change due to personal financial gain is not a good look now in Australia. Just letting you know since you seemed to have lost touch.

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Andrei.Hicks

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Re: 2011's Big Issue
Reply #17 - Jan 23^rd, 2011 at 2:23pm

Dsmithy70 wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2011 at 2:21pm:

____ wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2011 at 2:10pm:

dsmithy, I notice you made no mention on a carbon price. It was labor's backflip on the anti environment ETS that began the downfall of Mr Rudd. Is Labor that dumb that they will either put human caused climate change into the too hard basket, or worse, try and con Australians again with weak targets and reverse policies.

If they do then they risk Julia Gillard as leader, and losing her will be a major blow for Labor.

I'm pretty sure it was DNA who said this(Carbon Price) will be a major policy platform for the next election.
She cant just ram it through after campaigning on not introducing one during her term, the liberals quite rightly would be unrelenting in ramming the message of dishonesty home..
It will be like the GST for Labor negating the Liberals attack ads with their own words.
I agree with him totally, its the next elections major issue and the public will decide.

I hope it is smithy.
If I was running a campaign about it, I would bang on and on about the $ effect it will have on people's budgets.

People vote based on their back pocket in the end.

Sure everyone wants a nice environment.

But if Labor go to the election with a plan to INTRODUCE a tax which will increase cost of living, do nothing for the environment and have zero effect on anything.
Well, let them roll the dice.

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Anyone who lives within their means suffers from a lack of imagination - Oscar Wilde

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Re: 2011's Big Issue
Reply #18 - Jan 23^rd, 2011 at 2:32pm

Dsmithy70 wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2011 at 2:21pm:

____ wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2011 at 2:10pm:

dsmithy, I notice you made no mention on a carbon price. It was labor's backflip on the anti environment ETS that began the downfall of Mr Rudd. Is Labor that dumb that they will either put human caused climate change into the too hard basket, or worse, try and con Australians again with weak targets and reverse policies.

If they do then they risk Julia Gillard as leader, and losing her will be a major blow for Labor.

I'm pretty sure it was DNA who said this(Carbon Price) will be a major policy platform for the next election.
She cant just ram it through after campaigning on not introducing one during her term, the liberals quite rightly would be unrelenting in ramming the message of dishonesty home..
It will be like the GST for Labor negating the Liberals attack ads with their own words.
I agree with him totally, its the next elections major issue and the public will decide.

The more Labor fiddles while Australia burns, drowns and food prices soar, the more costly it will be for Labor come election time. You mentioned that Labor must act on the rebuild of Qld & Vic, yet why bother if you don't go to the root causes of these disasters. Building on flood planes and increasing Greenhouse gases from coal pollution.

Greens will likely benefit as far as votes are concerned if Labor does fiddle, yet Australia(n) will suffer greatly.

As you are well aware, there is a trigger point to the unleashing of massive amount of methane (20 time heat trapping than CO2) currently locked up under permafrost. You don't come across as a person that would play Russian roulette with your family's life.

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Re: 2011's Big Issue
Reply #19 - Jan 23^rd, 2011 at 2:36pm

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2011 at 2:23pm:

Dsmithy70 wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2011 at 2:21pm:

____ wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2011 at 2:10pm:

dsmithy, I notice you made no mention on a carbon price. It was labor's backflip on the anti environment ETS that began the downfall of Mr Rudd. Is Labor that dumb that they will either put human caused climate change into the too hard basket, or worse, try and con Australians again with weak targets and reverse policies.

If they do then they risk Julia Gillard as leader, and losing her will be a major blow for Labor.

I'm pretty sure it was DNA who said this(Carbon Price) will be a major policy platform for the next election.
She cant just ram it through after campaigning on not introducing one during her term, the liberals quite rightly would be unrelenting in ramming the message of dishonesty home..
It will be like the GST for Labor negating the Liberals attack ads with their own words.
I agree with him totally, its the next elections major issue and the public will decide.

I hope it is smithy.
If I was running a campaign about it, I would bang on and on about the $ effect it will have on people's budgets.

People vote based on their back pocket in the end.

Sure everyone wants a nice environment.

But if Labor go to the election with a plan to INTRODUCE a tax which will increase cost of living, do nothing for the environment and have zero effect on anything.
Well, let them roll the dice.

So the Hard Right will go to the next election supporting spiraling food prices from the effects of Human Caused Climate Change Disasters.

A bit rich while you bang on about cost of living when Liberals are the man culprit in increasing food prices for every Australian.

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Dsmithy70

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Re: 2011's Big Issue
Reply #20 - Jan 23^rd, 2011 at 2:38pm

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2011 at 2:23pm:

Dsmithy70 wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2011 at 2:21pm:

____ wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2011 at 2:10pm:

dsmithy, I notice you made no mention on a carbon price. It was labor's backflip on the anti environment ETS that began the downfall of Mr Rudd. Is Labor that dumb that they will either put human caused climate change into the too hard basket, or worse, try and con Australians again with weak targets and reverse policies.

If they do then they risk Julia Gillard as leader, and losing her will be a major blow for Labor.

I'm pretty sure it was DNA who said this(Carbon Price) will be a major policy platform for the next election.
She cant just ram it through after campaigning on not introducing one during her term, the liberals quite rightly would be unrelenting in ramming the message of dishonesty home..
It will be like the GST for Labor negating the Liberals attack ads with their own words.
I agree with him totally, its the next elections major issue and the public will decide.

I hope it is smithy.
If I was running a campaign about it, I would bang on and on about the $ effect it will have on people's budgets.

People vote based on their back pocket in the end.

Sure everyone wants a nice environment.

But if Labor go to the election with a plan to INTRODUCE a tax which will increase cost of living, do nothing for the environment and have zero effect on anything.
Well, let them roll the dice.

We will see, a few more natural disarsters and the back pocket just might lose.
It's a difficult issue, personally I believe and am happy for the tax/levey whatever they call it to be introduced provided the poor and those on fixed incomes(penisions) are either exempt or compensated.
But saying that the money collected needs to be invested in R&D for newables not given as rebates for pollution and I dont see anything like what I'd be happy with on the table from any party.
So as the pilot say as the plane goes down
"smok'im if you've got them", I continue to enjoy the full benefits cheap power provides.

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REBELLION is not what most people think it is.
REBELLION is when you turn off the TV & start educating & thinking for yourself.
Gavin Nascimento

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Andrei.Hicks

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Re: 2011's Big Issue
Reply #21 - Jan 23^rd, 2011 at 2:47pm

I understand your points smithy - I don't agree with an introduction of a carbon tax in any or form.

I particularly wouldn't agree with introducing a tax and then exempting certain sections.
It seems to me that the usual benchmark they would pick would be $150k per annum - which you and I know is far from rich if you're trying to run a family of 4.
Then again you can always package your salary to have $120k base and $30k car allowance - friends of mine did that last year and have got every benefit under the sun Wink

Anyway I digress.

A carbon tax for Australia, lets be honest would resolve nothing. Do you realize that actually should Australia go to zero emissions in total, it would still have no effect????

I could buy an increase in cost of living if I saw the environmental advantages. Simple fact is what does a carbon tax do??
I wouldn't use any less than what I do now, I wouldn't change my lifestyle in anyway - all we do is just pay more.
How does that resolve anything????????

Think here of the family of four on a tight budget. They have little option. Don't worry about me, I'll continue as I please and pay whatever is needed - but some people can't do that!!!

It's just pissing in the wind my friend, that's all it is.

Without the Communists up north on board and the 1bn shoe shiners to their east, it's all nonsense.

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Anyone who lives within their means suffers from a lack of imagination - Oscar Wilde

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Re: 2011's Big Issue
Reply #22 - Jan 23^rd, 2011 at 2:56pm

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2011 at 2:47pm:

A carbon tax for Australia, lets be honest would resolve nothing. Do you realize that actually should Australia go to zero emissions in total, it would still have no effect????

So you don't believe in the domino effect Andrei. Or do you and you're worried other economies would follow Australia towards a 100% green renewable electricity target and this would effect you and your job personally?

There are 6 countries that are the major backbone to coal electricity carbon pollution, Australia being one of those six. Move these six economies off coal for electricity and this will solve AGW.

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Dsmithy70

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Re: 2011's Big Issue
Reply #23 - Jan 23^rd, 2011 at 3:43pm

____ wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2011 at 2:32pm:

Dsmithy70 wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2011 at 2:21pm:

____ wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2011 at 2:10pm:

dsmithy, I notice you made no mention on a carbon price. It was labor's backflip on the anti environment ETS that began the downfall of Mr Rudd. Is Labor that dumb that they will either put human caused climate change into the too hard basket, or worse, try and con Australians again with weak targets and reverse policies.

If they do then they risk Julia Gillard as leader, and losing her will be a major blow for Labor.

I'm pretty sure it was DNA who said this(Carbon Price) will be a major policy platform for the next election.
She cant just ram it through after campaigning on not introducing one during her term, the liberals quite rightly would be unrelenting in ramming the message of dishonesty home..
It will be like the GST for Labor negating the Liberals attack ads with their own words.
I agree with him totally, its the next elections major issue and the public will decide.

The more Labor fiddles while Australia burns, drowns and food prices soar, the more costly it will be for Labor come election time. You mentioned that Labor must act on the rebuild of Qld & Vic, yet why bother if you don't go to the root causes of these disasters. Building on flood planes and increasing Greenhouse gases from coal pollution.

Greens will likely benefit as far as votes are concerned if Labor does fiddle, yet Australia(n) will suffer greatly.

As you are well aware, there is a trigger point to the unleashing of massive amount of methane (20 time heat trapping than CO2) currently locked up under permafrost. You don't come across as a person that would play Russian roulette with your family's life.

Yes there is and its fast approaching.
However, without a world dictatorship the politics will crawl along at a snails pace, with big oil using every trick big tobacco used plus a few of their own.
Personally until that tipping point is reached I seriously doubt anything will be done then unfortunately it will do no good.

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REBELLION is not what most people think it is.
REBELLION is when you turn off the TV & start educating & thinking for yourself.
Gavin Nascimento

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