Australian Politics Forum - Legalisation of pot?

muso

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Re: Legalisation of pot?
Reply #345 - Aug 3^rd, 2011 at 9:13am

Amadd wrote on Aug 3^rd, 2011 at 8:03am:

Let's say for example that smoking is harmful.
So..smoking what is harmful?
Is smoking anything harmful? And to what extent?

At least you're asking the right questions. It all comes down to the degree of risk. Let's face it, we're not too worried about the occasional light user. The same thing applies to alcohol.

It doesn't matter whether a drug is legal or illegal from the point of view of impairment, and that's where we should be looking, because (I hope) the reason for all the testing is not because we want to be "little Hitlers", but because all we want to do is to reduce accidents.

Sleeping pills and tranquillisers may be perfectly legally prescribed, but if it comes to the crunch, they can be even worse when it comes to impairment. In fact if you've been awake for 21 hours or more, it can produce an equivalent impairment to a BAC of 0.05, so you don't even have to take drugs to be impaired.

It all comes down to the individual's judgement on how to use them. The problem, as I've said before is the heavy long-term user.

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It's likely that a person influenced by marijuana will be more conscionable than a person that has had even only one beer.
In fact, it's more likely that a person influenced by marijuana will be far more conscionable than that of their ordinary state.

As I've stated before: A person under the influence of marijuana will usually underestimate their capabilities rather than overestimate them in respect to their ordinary capabilities.

That is a fact.

Again, you're looking at the short term acute effects only. The long term effects of heavy drug use can impair judgement and it doesn't even have to be in the system at the time - we're talking about chronic effects of longterm use here, and that has to include mood swings associated with withdrawal.

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Amadd

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Re: Legalisation of pot?
Reply #346 - Aug 3^rd, 2011 at 9:52am

Well thankyou muso, I am at last asking the right questions.

Now how about you start using the correct logic and stop relating jumping off cliffs and in front of buses with the question at hand?

Sorry mate, no respect at all for your logic there at all, it's totally ridiculous.

Quote:

It doesn't matter whether a drug is legal or illegal from the point of view of impairment, and that's where we should be looking, because (I hope) the reason for all the testing is not because we want to be "little Hitlers", but because all we want to do is to reduce accidents.

Of course it matters in regards to short term impairment, that's where most of the accidents happen. That's where the largest degree of risk exists.
..just like riding a bike..don't ya know?

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It all comes down to the individual's judgement on how to use them

Oh I see, now it's thrown back onto the user to use personal judgement, as God initially intended.
How 'bout you stop trying to be God and start using God's logic?

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It all comes down to the degree of risk. Let's face it, we're not too worried about the occasional light user. The same thing applies to alcohol.

Who tha fcku is we?
When did you become WE?
Have we recently been knighted?

Sorry mate, I live in a democracy that I shall want to die or kill for. Otherwise, I will take the money and run and stuff you all to the buggery that you deserve.

Democratic opinion is plainly obvious on this subject. Those who have experienced have a far more knowledgable opinion than those who haven't experienced.

Go have a bong and talk to me when you have half a clue.i

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mantra

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Re: Legalisation of pot?
Reply #347 - Aug 3^rd, 2011 at 10:01am

Amadd wrote on Aug 3^rd, 2011 at 8:03am:

Mantra, I think it's your attitude that get's up the nose (no pun..haha) of those experienced with using marijuana.

So many of your statements make it so very blatantly obvious that you have not experienced, and therefore have no real idea of what you are talking about.
You are speaking in non-sequitor terms in reference to the subject.

Let's say for example that smoking is harmful.
So..smoking what is harmful?
Is smoking anything harmful? And to what extent?

You don't need to smoke dope. It can be eaten or vapourisd as a far more healthy method of ingestation.
There are plenty of available methods to ingest dope which would practically negate any personal health risk. Does that make it better for you?

Amadd - I am not as ignorant as you're assuming. It has nothing to do with the way cannabis is taken. Marijuana is beneficial to some who are terminally ill and I'm sure most people wouldn't have a problem with it being prescribed to ease suffering.

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Probably not, because you have also alluded to some fanciful fact that you can become a "Marijuana addict". No need for me to quote you there, because you know that you said it.

That's absolute bs. It's not true at all. There is no such thing as a marijuana addict...debate me on that if you wish, I'll find all of the facts for what I know is true.

Addict is a strong word - but the words "habitual user" can be substituted if you like. It all comes down to the same meaning in the end. I have known people who've needed to go into rehab for their "habit" - so it would depend on the individual as to whether they became "addicted".

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The next point that you raise is concerning service workers.

Who would want a stoned builder building?
Who would want a stoned taxi driver driving?
Who would want a stoned surgeon operating on them?

It all depends upon how well they are able to perform their task.

No matter how well it is assumed they do their task - if you were honest you would admit they do their task better when they're straight.

If you're a brickies' labourer and had a repetitive and thoughtless job - perhaps you could manage for a while, but even a seasoned user, although not admitting it, would prefer their service providers to be straight with their minds clear.

If habitual users aren't addicted, why do they have the need to indulge themselves so frequently?

Quote:

And here's where you are assimilating alcohol with marijuana. They are very different influences indeed.

It's likely that a person influenced by marijuana will be more conscionable than a person that has had even only one beer.
In fact, it's more likely that a person influenced by marijuana will be far more conscionable than that of their ordinary state.

As I've stated before: A person under the influence of marijuana will usually underestimate their capabilities rather than overestimate them in respect to their ordinary capabilities.

That is a fact.

Yes - and underestimating your abilities is just as bad as overestimating them. Would you want a surgeon performing an intricate and delicate operation on you and wondering to himself which vein should he clamp next - or should he make an incision here or over there?

Your above statement alone Amadd indicates that cannabis does not have a positive influence on your brain. Long term users usually suffer from depression and paranoia - symptoms that could be avoided or lessened if they modified their "habit".

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Re: Legalisation of pot?
Reply #348 - Aug 3^rd, 2011 at 10:12am

Why do discussions about say, alcohol, never degenerate into an assumption that allowing people to drink means they will get pissed while driving or working?

Why must the anti-weed folks always frame things using the worst case scenario? Most people don't drink when they get up in the morning and continually 'top-up' throughout the day and night, so why work on the assumption that if weed were legal, this is how it would be used?

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In the fullness of time...

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Re: Legalisation of pot?
Reply #349 - Aug 3^rd, 2011 at 10:17am

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The Groningen Mental Enhancement Department in the Netherlands recently conducted a one-year study to see how gaming and cannabis can affect the brains of Alzheimer’s patients. All the test subjects played increasingly challenging games each day, but half the group was also administered smoke. Would you believe that the marijuana test group scored 43 percent better memory retention than the control group?

Interesting.
Seems to throw cold water on the flawed assumption that a brain functioning differently under the effects of weed can only be a negative.

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Amadd

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Re: Legalisation of pot?
Reply #350 - Aug 3^rd, 2011 at 10:29am

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Addict is a strong word - but the words "habitual user" can be substituted if you like. It all comes down to the same meaning in the end. I have known people who've needed to go into rehab for their "habit" - so it would depend on the individual as to whether they became "addicted".

Nope, it's not an acceptable substitute at all.
Those that you know who went into rehab shouldn't have gone there at all. Their "addiction" was not at all physical if only for marijuana.
That would be a massive, and maybe even a fatal mistake to send them to one of those places on account of marijuana use.
Most times, a baby will come along and the bong-head suddenly becomes a resposible father..that's until the politically endorsed divorce happens and he subsequently blows his head off.

IMO, rehab centres are very bad news for even physical drug addictions.
Amy Winehouse told it clear as clear could be. She won't go.
In the end, she attended, but stayed true to her word. True brilliance to the end.i

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mantra

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Re: Legalisation of pot?
Reply #351 - Aug 3^rd, 2011 at 10:32am

... wrote on Aug 3^rd, 2011 at 10:17am:

Quote:

The Groningen Mental Enhancement Department in the Netherlands recently conducted a one-year study to see how gaming and cannabis can affect the brains of Alzheimer’s patients. All the test subjects played increasingly challenging games each day, but half the group was also administered smoke. Would you believe that the marijuana test group scored 43 percent better memory retention than the control group?

Interesting.
Seems to throw cold water on the flawed assumption that a brain functioning differently under the effects of weed can only be a negative.

That is very interesting and marijuana on prescription should be available to those who are sick.

There are health benefits of course - but for someone with a clear and healthy mind - it obviously doesn't have the same positive result.

Quote:

Why do discussions about say, alcohol, never degenerate into an assumption that allowing people to drink means they will get pissed while driving or working?

Why must the anti-weed folks always frame things using the worst case scenario? Most people don't drink when they get up in the morning and continually 'top-up' throughout the day and night, so why work on the assumption that if weed were legal, this is how it would be used?

I'm not anti-weed - it just has its place as a tonic for the ill or for those who enjoy it - smoke it in your own free time. You and some others have claimed that most of us wouldn't have a clue whether a worker was stoned or not and maybe that's true in some cases, but you can at least smell alcohol on others which gives you a warning.

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Amadd

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Re: Legalisation of pot?
Reply #352 - Aug 3^rd, 2011 at 10:45am

Quote:

I'm not anti-weed - it just has its place as a tonic for the ill or for those who enjoy it - smoke it in your own free time. You and some others have claimed that most of us wouldn't have a clue whether a worker was stoned or not and maybe that's true in some cases, but you can at least smell alcohol on others which gives you a warning.

Does it come down to the "age old" fear of the unknown Mantra?

You want to know if/when somebody may be under the evil influence of marijuana?
You probably fear it because you don't really understand that it's primarily a male drug and primarily to do with male thingos. That's why most females don't use it.
If you knew how much more of a "female perspective/understanding" it can provide to males, you'd be packing bongs left right and centre Grin

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muso

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Re: Legalisation of pot?
Reply #353 - Aug 3^rd, 2011 at 11:08am

mantra wrote on Aug 3^rd, 2011 at 10:01am:

Your above statement alone Amadd indicates that cannabis does not have a positive influence on your brain. Long term users usually suffer from depression and paranoia - symptoms that could be avoided or lessened if they modified their "habit".

Of course, there's no evidence of that on this thread Grin

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Amadd

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Re: Legalisation of pot?
Reply #354 - Aug 3^rd, 2011 at 11:55am

Quote:

Your above statement alone Amadd indicates that cannabis does not have a positive influence on your brain. Long term users usually suffer from depression and paranoia - symptoms that could be avoided or lessened if they modified their "habit".

That was an amusing statement was it not?

Actually I rarely use marijuana at all these days..ie: 15 yrs or so.

FYI, short term users usually find the paranoia a difficult obstacle to overcome to complete a nice high. Obviously you are well misinformed and really have no idea of what you are talking about. Grin

Nahhh..I'm not really paranoid. I think that you guys have been hatched from the "Nerd egg".

I mean, why attack simple logic? Doesn't it make sense to you at all?

Anyway...I got a tune for you guys...just forget and enjoy if you can.

Just rise...

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muso

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Re: Legalisation of pot?
Reply #355 - Aug 3^rd, 2011 at 12:01pm

O))) wrote on Aug 2^nd, 2011 at 2:19pm:

muso wrote on Aug 2^nd, 2011 at 10:16am:

O))) wrote on Aug 2^nd, 2011 at 9:33am:

He's right though.

I agree. It's quite possible that he is on a disability pension for severe anxiety as a result of his drug habits. On the other hand he could be just a troll.

I think you misunderstood me.

I didn't. I was just being mischievous.

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Amadd Gold Member Offline Mo Posts: 6217	Re: Legalisation of pot? Reply #356 - Aug 3^rd, 2011 at 12:19pm I love that song. No requirement of ganga for me to enjoy that one. I'm just a naturally stoned MF. Thanks for your appreciation too muso. You really are a useless but appreciative piece of crapola
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O)))

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Re: Legalisation of pot?
Reply #357 - Aug 3^rd, 2011 at 1:02pm

Quote:

No matter how well it is assumed they do their task - if you were honest you would admit they do their task better when they're straight.

From personal experience, I beg to differ. I went to work (cooking in restaraunt) baked for about 6 months straight. Never had any complaints, but I wouldn't go in completely buggered up either. Since I've stopped smoking I would say there has been no change in my abilities. Nobody noticed a sudden change in my behaviour or abilities to my knowledge either.

I attribute this to tolerance and being comfortable with being high. If you smoke enough being stoned becomes the norm and you will find you can function perfectly well in public or in a stressful situation. Not that I recommend this, but I doubt people with no tolerance would get stoned and go to work as this would most likely become a very uncomfortable situation.

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mantra

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Re: Legalisation of pot?
Reply #358 - Aug 3^rd, 2011 at 1:06pm

Quote:

You want to know if/when somebody may be under the evil influence of marijuana?
You probably fear it because you don't really understand that it's primarily a male drug and primarily to do with male thingos. That's why most females don't use it.

Haha. Yes Amadd - I immediately think of male thingos when cannabis is mentioned. There are plenty of females who indulge as well. I didn't even associate it particularly with males, although come to think of it......

Roll Eyes

Quote:

FYI, short term users usually find the paranoia a difficult obstacle to overcome to complete a nice high. Obviously you are well misinformed and really have no idea of what you are talking about. Grin

Nahhh..I'm not really paranoid. I think that you guys have been hatched from the "Nerd egg".

I mean, why attack simple logic? Doesn't it make sense to you at all?

Strangely - I was thinking of people I've known over the years who've smoked it. Are you sure you're not paranoid Amadd? You said in one of your earlier posts that you hadn't smoked it for a long time so you're obviously not a habitual user.

I've allowed people to smoke on my property (a bit reluctantly) - as long as they've gone out to the garage and made sure the windows & doors are closed (so the neighbours don't smell it). They have to smoke it in a joint also - less smoke - so I'm not that nerdish. I know a lot of people smoke it and I accept that.

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Re: Legalisation of pot?
Reply #359 - Aug 3^rd, 2011 at 1:23pm

muso wrote on Aug 3^rd, 2011 at 11:08am:

mantra wrote on Aug 3^rd, 2011 at 10:01am:

Your above statement alone Amadd indicates that cannabis does not have a positive influence on your brain. Long term users usually suffer from depression and paranoia - symptoms that could be avoided or lessened if they modified their "habit".

Of course, there's no evidence of that on this thread Grin

true. One does need to be remarkably paranoid to think that legalising weed would result in a rash of smoke-related catastrophes.

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In the fullness of time...

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