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Legalisation of pot? (Read 120190 times)
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Re: Legalisation of pot?
Reply #90 - Apr 29th, 2011 at 10:17am
 
muso wrote on Apr 28th, 2011 at 7:24pm:
Life_goes_on wrote on Apr 28th, 2011 at 5:59pm:
Quote:
Of course it's addictive.


And not all addictions are equal. They can range from extremely mild to hardcore. Even the definition of what is actually an "addiction" is open to debate.

Pot is at the lower end of the scale.

Go to a proper addiction specialist (as in a proper doctor - not some git at a so-called "rehab" centre) and declare you're addicted to pot. Odds on he or she won't be suggesting they see you again.


I very much doubt that.  A doctor wouldn't turn you away for nicotine addiction either. If you have a significant cannabis addiction, the doctor will probably prescribe anti-depressants or benzodiazepine or both.

I agree that some people are more affected than others.



WOW...and you're completely fine with prescribing anti-depressants to replace cannabis????  That is incredible - don't worry about the potential for harm, just so long as it's been deemed legal?
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Re: Legalisation of pot?
Reply #91 - Apr 29th, 2011 at 10:27am
 
... wrote on Apr 29th, 2011 at 10:17am:
WOW...and you're completely fine with prescribing anti-depressants to replace cannabis????  That is incredible - don't worry about the potential for harm, just so long as it's been deemed legal?


Hang on there just a minute. I've never heard a doctor say anything like this yet:

Quote:
Go to a street dealer and buy as much benzodiazepine as you want, don't worry about the fact that it might have harmful fillers or that quality control is non existent. Make up your own mind how much to take.


If you know a doctor that said something like that, then I'd agree that there is much more potential harm in that approach than in buying marijuana off the street. Absolutely no doubt about it.

However if the doctor gives you a controlled prescription and says - take one per day after meals, well the risk is much lower.
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Re: Legalisation of pot?
Reply #92 - Apr 29th, 2011 at 10:43am
 
muso wrote on Apr 29th, 2011 at 10:27am:
... wrote on Apr 29th, 2011 at 10:17am:
WOW...and you're completely fine with prescribing anti-depressants to replace cannabis????  That is incredible - don't worry about the potential for harm, just so long as it's been deemed legal?


Hang on there just a minute. I've never heard a doctor say anything like this yet:

Quote:
Go to a street dealer and buy as much benzodiazepine as you want, don't worry about the fact that it might have harmful fillers or that quality control is non existent. Make up your own mind how much to take.


If you know a doctor that said something like that, then I'd agree that there is much more potential harm in that approach than in buying marijuana off the street. Absolutely no doubt about it.

However if the doctor gives you a controlled prescription and says - take one per day after meals, well the risk is much lower.



But the 'much lower' risk is still much higher than that of weed.  The reason why the more harmful of the 2 is legal, is that the worlds largest corporations can patent, and therefore reap huge profits from the sale of one and not the other.

Quote:
What's worse – heroin or amphetamine? And are they worse than alcohol and tobacco, which affects the health of far greater numbers of people.

In fact, how do you measure the harm of a drug? That's a question UK researchers found themselves asking when they set out to rate a range of commonly used recreational drugs – some legal, others not – to rate them in order of the harm they cause to users and to those around them.

They looked at 14 compounds: heroin, cocaine, alcohol, barbiturates, amphetamine, methadone, benzodiazepines, solvents, buprenorphine, tobacco, ecstasy, cannabis, LSD, and steroids.

They asked a range of experts – doctors, psychiatrists, chemists, police, lawyers and others – to rate these drugs individually in various categories of harm. The first was physical harm to the user – whether they caused illness and disease. The second was whether the drug would lead to addiction and dependence; and the third was the capacity for harm to others; family, community, and society.

Varieties of harm
Those drugs that are injected like heroin, amphetamines cause a lot of physical harm because of the risk of overdose and spread of blood borne viruses like HIV, hepatitis B and C. Other dugs like tobacco don't have an overdose or HIV risk, but caused physical harm over the long term. Some of the newer party drugs such as ecstasy or MDMA are so new their long term health effects aren't known.

With some drugs, the physical harm is compounded by the fact that the drug is addictive and the person keeps using it. Some require higher and higher doses to achieve the same effect, and/or cause withdrawal symptoms when the drug is stopped; heroin, benzodiazepines and nicotine were in this category, while LSD was much less addictive.

Drugs also vary in their capacity to cause harm to others. Alcohol often leads to violent behaviour, injuries and accidents and is a major cause of damage to family and social life. Alcohol and nicotine, being so widely used and so destructive to health over long periods of heavy use, are immensely costly to society. (Tobacco and alcohol together account for about 90 per cent of all drug-related deaths.) Illegal drugs like ecstasy, amphetamine and heroin may involve the user in criminal activity and its consequences.

And the winner was..
Rating these drugs wasn't easy because of the wide variations of degrees of harm in different categories – some drugs caused a lot of harm in one category but not another.

But when it came to all the harm factors considered together, heroin and cocaine were right at the top of the list; alcohol, tobacco, amphetamines and benzodiazepines fairly high; cannabis further down; and LSD and ecstasy towards the bottom.
So what's the point of all this?

The researchers weren't trying to justify the use of one drug over another. What they were trying to do was encourage police and law-makers to be a bit more rational about classifying drugs on the basis of harm (they found there wasn't much rationale in existing 'dangerous drugs' classifications in the UK at least).

But the findings are also a useful guide for doctors, counsellors, family and others working in drug treatment to help them devise harm minimisation strategies, especially when there's a scarcity of one type of drug and users switch to another with a different set of risks.

http://www.abc.net.au/health/thepulse/stories/2007/04/05/1884640.htm
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Re: Legalisation of pot?
Reply #93 - Apr 29th, 2011 at 2:03pm
 
A drug is likely to be more harmful to persons around the user, and society in general if its use is more prevalent. That's why alcohol is so harmful. More people use it.

Quote:
But the 'much lower' risk is still much higher than that of weed.  The reason why the more harmful of the 2 is legal, is that the worlds largest corporations can patent, and therefore reap huge profits from the sale of one and not the other.


A medically supervised course of benzodiazepine at a prescribed dosage is more harmful than buying grass off the street not knowing if it's pure hydroponically grown  containing anything from 3% to 22% active ingredient or otherwise? Total horsefeathers.
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« Last Edit: Apr 29th, 2011 at 2:11pm by muso »  

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Re: Legalisation of pot?
Reply #94 - Apr 29th, 2011 at 2:16pm
 
muso wrote on Apr 29th, 2011 at 2:03pm:
A drug is likely to be more harmful to persons around the user, and society in general if its use is more prevalent. That's why alcohol is so harmful. More people use it.




yes, and no.

I'm not denying that alcohol is far more widely used, and this does lead to higher levels of harm attributed to it.  However, you couldn't argue that this is the ONLY reason for the huge amount of harm it causes - the fact is it's an incredibly harmful substance.  It's addictive, you can OD, and you're highly susceptible to acts of stupidity and accidents.

Smoke 10 cones (alot by anyones standard) and see how you feel the next day, and more importantly, what trouble you caused for others while under the influence.  Then compare that to how you feel after drinking 10 pints, and all the poo you got upto and grief you caused others.  Alcohol won't compare favourably....nor will it when looking at long term effects of the 2.

By all measures, cannabis is low risk and has low potential for harm.  brush it off as conspiracy theory if you must, but I firmly believe the legal status of cannabis is almost entirely due to the power of the almighty dollar, rather than a health issue.
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Re: Legalisation of pot?
Reply #95 - Apr 29th, 2011 at 2:18pm
 
muso wrote on Apr 29th, 2011 at 2:03pm:
A drug is likely to be more harmful to persons around the user, and society in general if its use is more prevalent. That's why alcohol is so harmful. More people use it.

Quote:
But the 'much lower' risk is still much higher than that of weed.  The reason why the more harmful of the 2 is legal, is that the worlds largest corporations can patent, and therefore reap huge profits from the sale of one and not the other.


A medically supervised course of benzodiazepine at a prescribed dosage is more harmful than buying grass off the street not knowing if it's pure hydroponically grown  containing anything from 3% to 22% active ingredient or otherwise? Total horsefeathers.



Only someone with no knowledge would say that.  Sorry mate, but it's incredibly easy to measure your dose...and even if you wanted to go wild and smoke far, far Faaaar more than you should, your chance of OD is still precisely zero.
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Re: Legalisation of pot?
Reply #96 - Apr 29th, 2011 at 9:41pm
 
First -
Must apologise to Muso-  Embarrassed
not you- no it was Jasignature who called me a loser. And can't find the one where I was called a drug-dealer.  Likely the same source yeah?

Have been following what Wes Pipes and you Muso are discussing - 
and  Mr Pipes has it again - sorry Muso.

You sound like a person who's views formed from the outside - looking in- so to speak.
  No offense, just you sound like a very medical-establishment thinker - even if you don't work medically now.

I've seen it from both sides -

we're talking here about one of the MOST important divisions in our society.

Personally I'd prefer tolerance and equity - but I do understand  why that seems less important to you than supporting the present status quo.

So no doubt about it - Mr Pipes holds the strongest ground.!! Smiley

Onward onward on this WOD.  I mean this WOWOD!!?? Grin
Get it??? Kiss
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Re: Legalisation of pot?
Reply #97 - Apr 29th, 2011 at 10:15pm
 
... wrote on Apr 29th, 2011 at 2:18pm:
Only someone with no knowledge would say that.  Sorry mate, but it's incredibly easy to measure your dose...and even if you wanted to go wild and smoke far, far Faaaar more than you should, your chance of OD is still precisely zero.


I've never had any contact with marijuana apart from organising programs for random testing.

I hold to the medical research because they are probably a lot more qualified and a lot more impartial than the average user who obviously would do anything to perpetuate the myth that it's harmless.

Again:

Quote:
There are also many long-term health consequences of marijuana use. According to the National Institute of Health, studies show that someone who smokes five joints per week may be taking in as many cancer-causing chemicals as someone who smokes a full pack of cigarettes every day.


So if you smoke five joints per night, then in terms of risk, that's like smoking 7 packs of cigarettes every day. If you smoke pot heavily for a number of years, I'm sorry but people will notice the symptoms. You are deluding yourself if you think otherwise.

Another statement of risk:

Quote:
Marijuana contains more than 400 chemicals, including most of the harmful substances found in tobacco smoke. Smoking one marijuana cigarette deposits about four times more tar into the lungs than a filtered tobacco cigarette.


Now I'd eat seafood from Japan right now, but there is absolutely no way that I would smoke tobacco, and smokers are not welcome in my house. Let's leave it at that.
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Re: Legalisation of pot?
Reply #98 - Apr 30th, 2011 at 6:26am
 
I'm sorry Jalane,
didn't realise you were a Computer
and needed the information punched into you.

...as a once Privatised Nurse, its amazing how many drug-addicts ran back to the comfort of the Public system, when they had male Nurses like me who really did "sound up as if we had a pair" - didn't put up with their crap and squeezed the living hell out of them ...along with the money that they paid us to do such a professional job.
I've seen too many innocent people being killed due to the actions of drug and alcohol users to put up with such 'excuses'.

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Re: Legalisation of pot?
Reply #99 - Apr 30th, 2011 at 6:40am
 
I often say that the Music Industry has a 'drug' problem,
much like the Religious Industry has a 'gun' problem.
Not all musos are like that - some recognise that the music itself is the 'recreation'.

Drugs are there for a purpose ...not recreation or convenience of boredom.


John Lennon: Obviously for this drug-addict, the world was never good enough for him ...no wonder he was put out of his misery one day. (and yes, I've seen the little cave he hid in at Kathmandu and possibly came up with the words "Imagine there's no people">?)

I
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Re: Legalisation of pot?
Reply #100 - Apr 30th, 2011 at 8:13am
 
It_is_the_Darkness wrote on Apr 30th, 2011 at 6:40am:
I often say that the Music Industry has a 'drug' problem,
much like the Religious Industry has a 'gun' problem.



I thought it was an alcohol problem. We can thank the missionaries for bringing grog to the aborigines.
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Reply #101 - Apr 30th, 2011 at 10:42am
 
Yes, poor buggers. A good show about a Tribe down in Victoria that didn't do grog - in fact they did everything that was required of them in regards to living up to all expectations from society/church/etc.
When it came to a point that their should fullfill their role, they were screwed over and betrayed because ...they were simply 'aboriginal' and that just wasn't good enough. No-one wanted to serve under aboriginals who could do a better job than them.

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Re: Legalisation of pot?
Reply #102 - Apr 30th, 2011 at 9:28pm
 
Alcohol and it's effects upon the oldest Australians is surely worthy of it's own thread. The "Howard Yrs - the Interventions..etc" .
Not on this topic.

Altho u could, and perhaps should,  ask,  '...if Pot was able to be grown for personal use, ( and had been for say 10 yrs)  do you think the poison of alcoholism, petrol and glue- sniffing etc would be so prevalent, in these isolated communities. Or present at all, except in isolated incidents?"
??
What u say ? Muso. You're the expert yeah?  

As for Jasign   - your comments just went way over my head.  Maybe if I did, it might make some sense, but I don't view your vid's.  Sorry about that. Cheesy

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Re: Legalisation of pot?
Reply #103 - Apr 30th, 2011 at 10:33pm
 
Just hope Hippy Jalane,
that they don't legalise the Ferals.

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Re: Legalisation of pot?
Reply #104 - Apr 30th, 2011 at 10:49pm
 
Emma wrote on Apr 30th, 2011 at 9:28pm:
What u say ? Muso. You're the expert yeah?  



No, I'm not an expert. I just refer to Medical Research conducted by experts, because it makes more sense that speaking to people with a vested interest in legalising marijuana.

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