Australian Politics Forum - Goverments & CBAs

buzzanddidj

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 14247
Eganstown, via Daylesford, VIC
Gender: male

Re: Goverments & CBAs
Reply #60 - Dec 28^th, 2010 at 10:04pm

longweekend58 wrote on Dec 28^th, 2010 at 8:37pm:

buzzanddidj wrote on Dec 28^th, 2010 at 6:28pm:

Quote:

CBAs are done all the time and nthe bigger the project the bigger and more important the CBA is.

Not on national infrastucture
CBA's were unheard in the government realm till the opposition attempted to "demand" one on the NBN

Quote:

you uninformed moron

(note the resort to personal abuse when ALL else fails)

as usual VERY wrong. CBAs are part and parcel of ALL major infrastructure. no govt is ever going to agree to a massive spend on a rod or a bridge or a hospital without some analysis of the costs and the benefits.

Honestly, Buzz are you REALLY that silly that you cant see that a CBA is a little more than just a profit and loss statement? I dont value your opinion that much but i never really thought you were a fool.

I never thought YOU were, either
A P&L is a record on past business, not a projection or prediction for the future

Back to top

'I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians.
Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.'

- Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi

IP Logged

longweekend58

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 45675
Gender: male

Re: Goverments & CBAs
Reply #61 - Dec 28^th, 2010 at 10:10pm

John S wrote on Dec 28^th, 2010 at 9:36pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Dec 28^th, 2010 at 8:37pm:

buzzanddidj wrote on Dec 28^th, 2010 at 6:28pm:

Quote:

CBAs are done all the time and nthe bigger the project the bigger and more important the CBA is.

Not on national infrastucture
CBA's were unheard in the government realm till the opposition attempted to "demand" one on the NBN

Quote:

you uninformed moron

(note the resort to personal abuse when ALL else fails)

as usual VERY wrong. CBAs are part and parcel of ALL major infrastructure. no govt is ever going to agree to a massive spend on a rod or a bridge or a hospital without some analysis of the costs and the benefits.

Honestly, Buzz are you REALLY that silly that you cant see that a CBA is a little more than just a profit and loss statement? I dont value your opinion that much but i never really thought you were a fool. but Im starting to wonder whether Ive granted you more than you deserve. What exactly do you think forms the decision making process in building a road or hospital? It isnt Sim City. People actually need to define the costs and benefits. and in a COMMERCIAL operation, operating expenses and income is one of the benefits that needs to be quantified. Im not going to say it again. If you fail to see that a CBA doesnt apply in much of govt decision making then I wil just put u inthe same box i place people like Green_loses: the place of fools.

longy name one policy or infrastructure that has had a cost benefit analysis that any federal or state goverment has ever done. They might have done a cost benefit but not a cost benefit analysis.

I bet my bottom dollar that O'Farrell won't do any cost benefit analysis on any infrastructure he starts if he come Premier of NSW.

'cost benefit' vs 'cost benefit analysis'??

how do u think the two differ?

Back to top

AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

IP Logged

longweekend58

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 45675
Gender: male

Re: Goverments & CBAs
Reply #62 - Dec 28^th, 2010 at 10:12pm

buzzanddidj wrote on Dec 28^th, 2010 at 10:04pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Dec 28^th, 2010 at 8:37pm:

buzzanddidj wrote on Dec 28^th, 2010 at 6:28pm:

Quote:

CBAs are done all the time and nthe bigger the project the bigger and more important the CBA is.

Not on national infrastucture
CBA's were unheard in the government realm till the opposition attempted to "demand" one on the NBN

Quote:

you uninformed moron

(note the resort to personal abuse when ALL else fails)

as usual VERY wrong. CBAs are part and parcel of ALL major infrastructure. no govt is ever going to agree to a massive spend on a rod or a bridge or a hospital without some analysis of the costs and the benefits.

Honestly, Buzz are you REALLY that silly that you cant see that a CBA is a little more than just a profit and loss statement? I dont value your opinion that much but i never really thought you were a fool.

I never thought YOU were, either
A P&L is a record on past business, not a projection or prediction for the future

profit and loss PROJECTION was what I meant to say. and still u maintain that govt infrastruture is built without any analysis as to what it wil cost and what its benefits are. Truly, you are remarkable. Stupid and stubborn yet REMARKABLY so.

Back to top

AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

IP Logged

buzzanddidj

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 14247
Eganstown, via Daylesford, VIC
Gender: male

Re: Goverments & CBAs
Reply #63 - Dec 28^th, 2010 at 10:13pm

Equitist wrote on Dec 28^th, 2010 at 9:30pm:

If CBAs are so routine and crucial for public infrastructure projects in Australia, then why is it that there appears to be no legislated protocol for undertaking and publishing them on a bipartisan basis - and scant evidence of CBAs being done as a matter of course in the past!?

I don't expect Longweekend, Andrei_Hicks or the "political blonde" to be jumping in too fast on THAT challenge

Back to top

'I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians.
Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.'

- Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi

IP Logged

John S

Gold Member

Offline

Fascist Party = Liberal
Party

Posts: 3691
Gender: male

Re: Goverments & CBAs
Reply #64 - Dec 28^th, 2010 at 10:27pm

longweekend58 wrote on Dec 28^th, 2010 at 10:10pm:

John S wrote on Dec 28^th, 2010 at 9:36pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Dec 28^th, 2010 at 8:37pm:

buzzanddidj wrote on Dec 28^th, 2010 at 6:28pm:

Quote:

CBAs are done all the time and nthe bigger the project the bigger and more important the CBA is.

Not on national infrastucture
CBA's were unheard in the government realm till the opposition attempted to "demand" one on the NBN

Quote:

you uninformed moron

(note the resort to personal abuse when ALL else fails)

as usual VERY wrong. CBAs are part and parcel of ALL major infrastructure. no govt is ever going to agree to a massive spend on a rod or a bridge or a hospital without some analysis of the costs and the benefits.

Honestly, Buzz are you REALLY that silly that you cant see that a CBA is a little more than just a profit and loss statement? I dont value your opinion that much but i never really thought you were a fool. but Im starting to wonder whether Ive granted you more than you deserve. What exactly do you think forms the decision making process in building a road or hospital? It isnt Sim City. People actually need to define the costs and benefits. and in a COMMERCIAL operation, operating expenses and income is one of the benefits that needs to be quantified. Im not going to say it again. If you fail to see that a CBA doesnt apply in much of govt decision making then I wil just put u inthe same box i place people like Green_loses: the place of fools.

longy name one policy or infrastructure that has had a cost benefit analysis that any federal or state goverment has ever done. They might have done a cost benefit but not a cost benefit analysis.

I bet my bottom dollar that O'Farrell won't do any cost benefit analysis on any infrastructure he starts if he come Premier of NSW.

'cost benefit' vs 'cost benefit analysis'??

how do u think the two differ?

Look at this exmple

Quote:

Here is a example of the diffence between costing and CBA for those that don't know. I make it simple so 3 of you can understand it.

2 people want to buy a car.

The first guy want a Commodore so he goes to all the Holden dealerships and get the best price for his car and buys it.

That would be class as costing.

The second guy doesn't care what type of car he gets. He knows roughly what kind of car he wants so he goes to all different dealerships and gets prices for the type of car he wants.

That would be class as the cost.

He goes home and weights up all the benefit he can get out of each different cars he has look at.

That would be class as the benefit.

Then he would see which one would have the best resale value when he wants to sell it.

That would be class as analysis.

The first guy brought his car on costing the second guy done a cost benefit analysis before he brought his car.

Now if three guys brought a car and the third guy did what the second guy did but didn't worry about the resale value.

That would be a cost benefit.

Back to top

'The worst Labor Government is always better then the best Liberal government for Australians workers'

IP Logged

longweekend58

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 45675
Gender: male

Re: Goverments & CBAs
Reply #65 - Dec 28^th, 2010 at 10:30pm

buzzanddidj wrote on Dec 28^th, 2010 at 10:13pm:

Equitist wrote on Dec 28^th, 2010 at 9:30pm:

If CBAs are so routine and crucial for public infrastructure projects in Australia, then why is it that there appears to be no legislated protocol for undertaking and publishing them on a bipartisan basis - and scant evidence of CBAs being done as a matter of course in the past!?

I don't expect Longweekend, Andrei_Hicks or the "political blonde" to be jumping in too fast on THAT challenge

Im sure you think you are smart Buzz, but be assured that the more you try and maintain this fiction that govts never do analysis on the costs and benfits of infrastructure projectsm the more posters like me wil hold you in utter contempt. I dont expect you to agree with me on politics or policy. I dont expect us to have much common ground on pretty much anything But I had hoped that intelligence and logic and the like might be the narrow thread we shared. You seem to think that government is like sim city where you build a bridge or a road or a hospital because it 'looks nice'. Yet I cant beleive you are actually that stupid despite your ever-present attempts to do just that.

As we've seen with your truly embarrassing and desperate attempts to smear the new Lib govt, it appears you have had to choose between your party and your personal integrity. And you chose wrong. the party is all that matters. You are clearly an intelligent person and unlike Green -who is obviously dumber than snot - you have no excuse to behave in the blatantly and obviously partisan manner you have been. It would be partisan to say the NBN doesnt need a CBA and to toe the party line you clearly love so much. I could accept that. To say that CBAs are never done merely puts you in with the rest of the idiots and morons who infest this place.

Welcome to the irrelevance you asked for.

Back to top

AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

IP Logged

longweekend58

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 45675
Gender: male

Re: Goverments & CBAs
Reply #66 - Dec 28^th, 2010 at 10:35pm

John S wrote on Dec 28^th, 2010 at 10:27pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Dec 28^th, 2010 at 10:10pm:

John S wrote on Dec 28^th, 2010 at 9:36pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Dec 28^th, 2010 at 8:37pm:

buzzanddidj wrote on Dec 28^th, 2010 at 6:28pm:

Quote:

CBAs are done all the time and nthe bigger the project the bigger and more important the CBA is.

Not on national infrastucture
CBA's were unheard in the government realm till the opposition attempted to "demand" one on the NBN

Quote:

you uninformed moron

(note the resort to personal abuse when ALL else fails)

as usual VERY wrong. CBAs are part and parcel of ALL major infrastructure. no govt is ever going to agree to a massive spend on a rod or a bridge or a hospital without some analysis of the costs and the benefits.

Honestly, Buzz are you REALLY that silly that you cant see that a CBA is a little more than just a profit and loss statement? I dont value your opinion that much but i never really thought you were a fool. but Im starting to wonder whether Ive granted you more than you deserve. What exactly do you think forms the decision making process in building a road or hospital? It isnt Sim City. People actually need to define the costs and benefits. and in a COMMERCIAL operation, operating expenses and income is one of the benefits that needs to be quantified. Im not going to say it again. If you fail to see that a CBA doesnt apply in much of govt decision making then I wil just put u inthe same box i place people like Green_loses: the place of fools.

longy name one policy or infrastructure that has had a cost benefit analysis that any federal or state goverment has ever done. They might have done a cost benefit but not a cost benefit analysis.

I bet my bottom dollar that O'Farrell won't do any cost benefit analysis on any infrastructure he starts if he come Premier of NSW.

'cost benefit' vs 'cost benefit analysis'??

how do u think the two differ?

Look at this exmple

Quote:

Here is a example of the diffence between costing and CBA for those that don't know. I make it simple so 3 of you can understand it.

2 people want to buy a car.

The first guy want a Commodore so he goes to all the Holden dealerships and get the best price for his car and buys it.

That would be class as costing.

The second guy doesn't care what type of car he gets. He knows roughly what kind of car he wants so he goes to all different dealerships and gets prices for the type of car he wants.

That would be class as the cost.

He goes home and weights up all the benefit he can get out of each different cars he has look at.

That would be class as the benefit.

Then he would see which one would have the best resale value when he wants to sell it.

That would be class as analysis.

The first guy brought his car on costing the second guy done a cost benefit analysis before he brought his car.

Now if three guys brought a car and the third guy did what the second guy did but didn't worry about the resale value.

That would be a cost benefit.

look at the english you uneducated MORON. CBA is actually Cost/Benefit Analysis. Cost and Benefit are two columns of a spreadsheet that are LINKED by the analysis. without the analysis cost and benefit are pointless.

Oh why do I bother, you and Buzz can join Green-goober is the dumber-than-snot bucket. Honestly, if someone asked you if 1+1=2 You'd have to consult the ALPs policy platform to decide. It makes me wonder if any of you have ever had a job anywhere higher than BOTTOM of the pile where no decisions and no thinking are involved.

Back to top

AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

IP Logged

Andrei.Hicks Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 23818 Carlsbad, CA Gender:	Re: Goverments & CBAs Reply #67 - Dec 28^th, 2010 at 10:38pm
Back to top	Anyone who lives within their means suffers from a lack of imagination - Oscar Wilde IP Logged

aussiefree2ride

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 3538

Re: Goverments & CBAs
Reply #68 - Dec 28^th, 2010 at 10:45pm

John S wrote on Dec 28^th, 2010 at 10:27pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Dec 28^th, 2010 at 10:10pm:

John S wrote on Dec 28^th, 2010 at 9:36pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Dec 28^th, 2010 at 8:37pm:

buzzanddidj wrote on Dec 28^th, 2010 at 6:28pm:

Quote:

CBAs are done all the time and nthe bigger the project the bigger and more important the CBA is.

Not on national infrastucture
CBA's were unheard in the government realm till the opposition attempted to "demand" one on the NBN

Quote:

you uninformed moron

(note the resort to personal abuse when ALL else fails)

as usual VERY wrong. CBAs are part and parcel of ALL major infrastructure. no govt is ever going to agree to a massive spend on a rod or a bridge or a hospital without some analysis of the costs and the benefits.

Honestly, Buzz are you REALLY that silly that you cant see that a CBA is a little more than just a profit and loss statement? I dont value your opinion that much but i never really thought you were a fool. but Im starting to wonder whether Ive granted you more than you deserve. What exactly do you think forms the decision making process in building a road or hospital? It isnt Sim City. People actually need to define the costs and benefits. and in a COMMERCIAL operation, operating expenses and income is one of the benefits that needs to be quantified. Im not going to say it again. If you fail to see that a CBA doesnt apply in much of govt decision making then I wil just put u inthe same box i place people like Green_loses: the place of fools.

longy name one policy or infrastructure that has had a cost benefit analysis that any federal or state goverment has ever done. They might have done a cost benefit but not a cost benefit analysis.

I bet my bottom dollar that O'Farrell won't do any cost benefit analysis on any infrastructure he starts if he come Premier of NSW.

'cost benefit' vs 'cost benefit analysis'??

how do u think the two differ?

Look at this exmple

Quote:

Here is a example of the diffence between costing and CBA for those that don't know. I make it simple so 3 of you can understand it.

2 people want to buy a car.

The first guy want a Commodore so he goes to all the Holden dealerships and get the best price for his car and buys it.

That would be class as costing.

The second guy doesn't care what type of car he gets. He knows roughly what kind of car he wants so he goes to all different dealerships and gets prices for the type of car he wants.

That would be class as the cost.

He goes home and weights up all the benefit he can get out of each different cars he has look at.

That would be class as the benefit.

Then he would see which one would have the best resale value when he wants to sell it.

That would be class as analysis.

The first guy brought his car on costing the second guy done a cost benefit analysis before he brought his car.

Now if three guys brought a car and the third guy did what the second guy did but didn't worry about the resale value.

That would be a cost benefit.

Amazing! This helps to explain how one can bring one`s self to vote for the the ALP, or the "party for daydreams & decor".

Back to top

IP Logged

Equitist

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 9632
NSW

Re: Goverments & CBAs
Reply #69 - Dec 28^th, 2010 at 10:51pm

longweekend58 wrote on Dec 28^th, 2010 at 10:30pm:

buzzanddidj wrote on Dec 28^th, 2010 at 10:13pm:

Equitist wrote on Dec 28^th, 2010 at 9:30pm:

If CBAs are so routine and crucial for public infrastructure projects in Australia, then why is it that there appears to be no legislated protocol for undertaking and publishing them on a bipartisan basis - and scant evidence of CBAs being done as a matter of course in the past!?

I don't expect Longweekend, Andrei_Hicks or the "political blonde" to be jumping in too fast on THAT challenge

Im sure you think you are smart Buzz, but be assured that the more you try and maintain this fiction that govts never do analysis on the costs and benfits of infrastructure projectsm the more posters like me wil hold you in utter contempt. I dont expect you to agree with me on politics or policy. I dont expect us to have much common ground on pretty much anything But I had hoped that intelligence and logic and the like might be the narrow thread we shared. You seem to think that government is like sim city where you build a bridge or a road or a hospital because it 'looks nice'. Yet I cant beleive you are actually that stupid despite your ever-present attempts to do just that.

As we've seen with your truly embarrassing and desperate attempts to smear the new Lib govt, it appears you have had to choose between your party and your personal integrity. And you chose wrong. the party is all that matters. You are clearly an intelligent person and unlike Green -who is obviously dumber than snot - you have no excuse to behave in the blatantly and obviously partisan manner you have been. It would be partisan to say the NBN doesnt need a CBA and to toe the party line you clearly love so much. I could accept that. To say that CBAs are never done merely puts you in with the rest of the idiots and morons who infest this place.

Welcome to the irrelevance you asked for.

Due credit to Longy, for jumping in - blubber 'n' all!

It's a shame that his half-baked deflection wasn't up to the challenge, tho'...

Back to top

Lamenting the shift in the Australian psyche, away from the egalitarian ideal of the fair-go - and the rise of short-sighted pollies, who worship the 'Growth Fairy' and seek to divide and conquer!

IP Logged

John S

Gold Member

Offline

Fascist Party = Liberal
Party

Posts: 3691
Gender: male

Re: Goverments & CBAs
Reply #70 - Dec 28^th, 2010 at 10:55pm

longy I ask in another thread that was started by sprintcyclist that is about 7 pages and I ask a heaps of times

http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1293112081/0

What goverment has ever done a CBA?

Now you are so bloody smart answer that or are you an idiot and you can't answer.

None of you liberals can answer a simple question.

Back to top

'The worst Labor Government is always better then the best Liberal government for Australians workers'

IP Logged

Andrei.Hicks Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 23818 Carlsbad, CA Gender:	Re: Goverments & CBAs Reply #71 - Dec 28^th, 2010 at 10:58pm With the greatest respect Jack, you're as thick as two short planks sideways. It'd be like trying to explain advanced algebra to a monkey.
Back to top	Anyone who lives within their means suffers from a lack of imagination - Oscar Wilde IP Logged

John S Gold Member Offline Fascist Party = Liberal Party Posts: 3691 Gender:	Re: Goverments & CBAs Reply #72 - Dec 29^th, 2010 at 12:37am Andrei.Hicks wrote on Dec 28^th, 2010 at 10:58pm: With the greatest respect Jack, you're as thick as two short planks sideways. It'd be like trying to explain advanced algebra to a monkey. so andrei tell me what wrong with my example of CBA
Back to top	'The worst Labor Government is always better then the best Liberal government for Australians workers' IP Logged

buzzanddidj

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 14247
Eganstown, via Daylesford, VIC
Gender: male

Re: Goverments & CBAs
Reply #73 - Dec 29^th, 2010 at 6:49am

Exerpt ...

The NBN was costed, and it seems to be either $43b or $27b depending on your accountant, but she can hardly complain that it wasn’t costed.

Tony Abbott must have said $43b a hundred times, and The Australian surely reported it, at least every other paper did.

However no cost-benefit analysis was done, which is what she might be talking about, but that is also true of every other government and opposition policy.

Quote:

Cost-benefit analysis is never done on policy, otherwise most of the decisions of the Howard government would have been still-born.

http://www.crikey.com.au/2010/09/13/the-australians-election-coverage/

If ANYONE can find evidence to DISPUTE the claim in this quote, I'd be prepared to listen

Otherwise, might I suggest a new strategy in trashing a National Broadband Network, new technology - and the Government's determination to deliver on 2007 and 2010 election policy

(Admittedly, finding a major infrastructure project started by the Howard Government may be quite a chore in itself)

Back to top

'I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians.
Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.'

- Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi

IP Logged

viewpoint Gold Member Offline A joke is a very serious thing. [Winston] Posts: 2209 Gender:	Re: Goverments & CBAs Reply #74 - Dec 29^th, 2010 at 7:22am LW you can’t teach a pig to play the piano……. Be careful, they're shouting again and the colouring book is out.
Back to top	Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery. - Sir Winston Churchill IP Logged

Poll
Question: Should the Goverment of the day do a CBA on their Policies
Yes all Goverment 5 (38.5%) Not any Goverment 2 (15.4%) Only the Labor Goverments 0 (0.0%) Not any Liberal Goverments 0 (0.0%) Goverment doing CBA is all B/S 6 (46.2%) Total votes: 13 « Created by: John S on: Dec 27^th, 2010 at 10:50am »