Australian Politics Forum - Another 'Climate Change' failure...

gizmo_2655

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Re: Another 'Climate Change' failure...
Reply #30 - Dec 13^th, 2010 at 2:31pm

Please delete wrote on Dec 13^th, 2010 at 2:23pm:

"Which really should INCLUDE China....How can a country that is a 'Superpower', with a technolgical level like China's, be considered a 'developing' nation???? "

China IS a developing nation. A very rich developing nation.

Well what is the criteria for a developed nation???

China has GDP that sh1ts on the western nations, massive export base, is pretty much self-sufficient for power and food and is racing ahead of almost every country in technology (particularly renewable/alternative energy)......

So at what point does a 'developing nation' become a developed nation????

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"I just get sick of people who place a label on someone else with their own definition.

It's similar to a strawman fallacy"
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Dsmithy70

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Re: Another 'Climate Change' failure...
Reply #31 - Dec 13^th, 2010 at 2:33pm

gizmo_2655 wrote on Dec 13^th, 2010 at 2:24pm:

The problem is Dsmithy...it's BIG 'if'...

Really???
So we advance our energy technology instead of continuing to use 19th century technology & a finite resource & the science is wrong,
Would you consider it a waste of money????
I mean imagine no more smog, gee I'd miss that.
Can you name 1 other area of human endeavour where new technology is a bad thing, and actively DISCOURAGED by governments?
Imagine if they decided a sharp knife was all the medical equipment needed, that's basically what we're allowing the vested interests of the fossil fuel lobby to do.

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REBELLION is not what most people think it is.
REBELLION is when you turn off the TV & start educating & thinking for yourself.
Gavin Nascimento

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Dsmithy70

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Re: Another 'Climate Change' failure...
Reply #32 - Dec 13^th, 2010 at 2:34pm

gizmo_2655 wrote on Dec 13^th, 2010 at 2:31pm:

Please delete wrote on Dec 13^th, 2010 at 2:23pm:

"Which really should INCLUDE China....How can a country that is a 'Superpower', with a technolgical level like China's, be considered a 'developing' nation???? "

China IS a developing nation. A very rich developing nation.

Well what is the criteria for a developed nation???

China has GDP that sh1ts on the western nations, massive export base, is pretty much self-sufficient for power and food and is racing ahead of almost every country in technology (particularly renewable/alternative energy)......

So at what point does a 'developing nation' become a developed nation????

When 90% of the population lives above the poverty line, not 40%

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REBELLION is not what most people think it is.
REBELLION is when you turn off the TV & start educating & thinking for yourself.
Gavin Nascimento

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Re: Another 'Climate Change' failure...
Reply #33 - Dec 13^th, 2010 at 2:37pm

"Well what is the criteria for a developed nation???"

I'm no expert, but the difference would hinge on time - time with the wealth to build infrastructure, educate your citizenry, have everything running smoothly.

China is rapidly developing, but they still have a huge impoverished population, and limited resources.

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Andrei.Hicks

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Re: Another 'Climate Change' failure...
Reply #34 - Dec 13^th, 2010 at 2:38pm

Dsmithy70 wrote on Dec 13^th, 2010 at 2:34pm:

gizmo_2655 wrote on Dec 13^th, 2010 at 2:31pm:

Please delete wrote on Dec 13^th, 2010 at 2:23pm:

"Which really should INCLUDE China....How can a country that is a 'Superpower', with a technolgical level like China's, be considered a 'developing' nation???? "

China IS a developing nation. A very rich developing nation.

Well what is the criteria for a developed nation???

China has GDP that sh1ts on the western nations, massive export base, is pretty much self-sufficient for power and food and is racing ahead of almost every country in technology (particularly renewable/alternative energy)......

So at what point does a 'developing nation' become a developed nation????

When 90% of the population lives above the poverty line, not 40%

Sorry but how is that my (or anyone else's) problem?

Plenty of things are not particularly nice but we deal with it and move on.

I don't see why we should make allowances for nations just because we feel sorry for them.

We don't do that in business do we?
If someone is down, you climb on them.

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Anyone who lives within their means suffers from a lack of imagination - Oscar Wilde

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gizmo_2655

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Re: Another 'Climate Change' failure...
Reply #35 - Dec 13^th, 2010 at 2:39pm

Dsmithy70 wrote on Dec 13^th, 2010 at 2:33pm:

gizmo_2655 wrote on Dec 13^th, 2010 at 2:24pm:

The problem is Dsmithy...it's BIG 'if'...

Really???
So we advance our energy technology instead of continuing to use 19th century technology & a finite resource & the science is wrong,
Would you consider it a waste of money????
I mean imagine no more smog, gee I'd miss that.
Can you name 1 other area of human endeavour where new technology is a bad thing, and actively DISCOURAGED by governments?
Imagine if they decided a sharp knife was all the medical equipment needed, that's basically what we're allowing the vested interests of the fossil fuel lobby to do.

Nope, I'm all the way behind advancing technology, and alternative power, and better medical knowledge etc....

What I'm NOT behind is a pointless tax (fine) like a Carbon Tax or an ETS which will do nothing other than pass the tax 'costs' on to all consumers, and have NO effect on either Climate Change, or the development of alternative/renewable energy.....and will, if we follow the UN's idea of paying money to developing nations, only serve to produce more of the 'allegedly' harmful Co2 emissions....

If we want to help developing nations and the poor people living in them, it'd be a far better idea to give them, not money, but technology.

Send people there to build renewable energy infrastructure and industry and train the local people on how to build more....

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"I just get sick of people who place a label on someone else with their own definition.

It's similar to a strawman fallacy"
Bobbythebat

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Andrei.Hicks Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 23818 Carlsbad, CA Gender:	Re: Another 'Climate Change' failure... Reply #36 - Dec 13^th, 2010 at 2:39pm I appreciate that may sound harsher than what I am trying to convey. I am simply saying that if we are going to fix the environment we can't go allowing for factors which don't help the issue. The fact Indian and Chinese people are in poverty is not related to fixing the environment. It's a distraction.
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Please delete Gold Member Offline Please delete this smacking PROFILE Posts: 2936	Re: Another 'Climate Change' failure... Reply #37 - Dec 13^th, 2010 at 2:43pm So, hicks - I'll ask again. How do you "stop" China? What are you proposing?
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Dsmithy70

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Re: Another 'Climate Change' failure...
Reply #38 - Dec 13^th, 2010 at 3:12pm

gizmo_2655 wrote on Dec 13^th, 2010 at 2:39pm:

Dsmithy70 wrote on Dec 13^th, 2010 at 2:33pm:

gizmo_2655 wrote on Dec 13^th, 2010 at 2:24pm:

The problem is Dsmithy...it's BIG 'if'...

Really???
So we advance our energy technology instead of continuing to use 19th century technology & a finite resource & the science is wrong,
Would you consider it a waste of money????
I mean imagine no more smog, gee I'd miss that.
Can you name 1 other area of human endeavour where new technology is a bad thing, and actively DISCOURAGED by governments?
Imagine if they decided a sharp knife was all the medical equipment needed, that's basically what we're allowing the vested interests of the fossil fuel lobby to do.

Nope, I'm all the way behind advancing technology, and alternative power, and better medical knowledge etc....

What I'm NOT behind is a pointless tax (fine) like a Carbon Tax or an ETS which will do nothing other than pass the tax 'costs' on to all consumers, and have NO effect on either Climate Change, or the development of alternative/renewable energy.....and will, if we follow the UN's idea of paying money to developing nations, only serve to produce more of the 'allegedly' harmful Co2 emissions....

If we want to help developing nations and the poor people living in them, it'd be a far better idea to give them, not money, but technology.

Send people there to build renewable energy infrastructure and industry and train the local people on how to build more....

Cannot disagree with anything there Gizmo, I especially like the part I highlighted.
Western governments thinking is the more something costs the less we will use hence the carbon tax & frankly they are correct in assuming this.
Trouble is electricity is now virtually the same as shelter(at least in the western world) & is almost considered a human right & herein lies the difficulty, no one wants to hear of people freezing to death because they cant afford to run a heater.
But as Andrei says why should we give a toss about poor people & nations so I suppose the same goes for those without in our own society Sad

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REBELLION is not what most people think it is.
REBELLION is when you turn off the TV & start educating & thinking for yourself.
Gavin Nascimento

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gizmo_2655

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Re: Another 'Climate Change' failure...
Reply #39 - Dec 13^th, 2010 at 3:15pm

Dsmithy70 wrote on Dec 13^th, 2010 at 2:34pm:

gizmo_2655 wrote on Dec 13^th, 2010 at 2:31pm:

Please delete wrote on Dec 13^th, 2010 at 2:23pm:

"Which really should INCLUDE China....How can a country that is a 'Superpower', with a technolgical level like China's, be considered a 'developing' nation???? "

China IS a developing nation. A very rich developing nation.

Well what is the criteria for a developed nation???

China has GDP that sh1ts on the western nations, massive export base, is pretty much self-sufficient for power and food and is racing ahead of almost every country in technology (particularly renewable/alternative energy)......

So at what point does a 'developing nation' become a developed nation????

When 90% of the population lives above the poverty line, not 40%

But doesn't that then make America, Australia, Russia and England 'developing nations' too???

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"I just get sick of people who place a label on someone else with their own definition.

It's similar to a strawman fallacy"
Bobbythebat

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Dsmithy70

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Re: Another 'Climate Change' failure...
Reply #40 - Dec 13^th, 2010 at 3:21pm

gizmo_2655 wrote on Dec 13^th, 2010 at 3:15pm:

Dsmithy70 wrote on Dec 13^th, 2010 at 2:34pm:

gizmo_2655 wrote on Dec 13^th, 2010 at 2:31pm:

Please delete wrote on Dec 13^th, 2010 at 2:23pm:

"Which really should INCLUDE China....How can a country that is a 'Superpower', with a technolgical level like China's, be considered a 'developing' nation???? "

China IS a developing nation. A very rich developing nation.

Well what is the criteria for a developed nation???

China has GDP that sh1ts on the western nations, massive export base, is pretty much self-sufficient for power and food and is racing ahead of almost every country in technology (particularly renewable/alternative energy)......

So at what point does a 'developing nation' become a developed nation????

When 90% of the population lives above the poverty line, not 40%

But doesn't that then make America, Australia, Russia and England 'developing nations' too???

Now I know your taking the p!ss
Surely you are not seriously suggesting that 60% of the populations in the countries you've mentioned live under the poverty line?
10% max for the Western
20% for Russia
& I reckon I've over estimated(guessed) with those figures

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REBELLION is not what most people think it is.
REBELLION is when you turn off the TV & start educating & thinking for yourself.
Gavin Nascimento

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Re: Another 'Climate Change' failure...
Reply #41 - Dec 13^th, 2010 at 3:22pm

China’s minimum wage is lower than that in 32 African countries, and is almost the lowest in the world, according to “World Wage Research” (“WWR”), a widely viewed report circulated on China’s major Web sites and blogs.

“China’s average annual wage is less than 15 percent of the world average, ranking 158th in the world,” said Liu Zhirong, independent Chinese scholar and author of “WWR,” during an interview with Radio Free Asia (RFA).

His research showed that the lowest average annual income of the 183 countries and regions in the world is approximately US$6,078, while China’s is only US$896.

http://www.theepochtimes.com/n2/content/view/30453/

Anyone here living on $900 pa (or less, since this is an average)?

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Dsmithy70 Gold Member Offline ire futuis vobismetipsis Posts: 13147 Newy Gender:	Re: Another 'Climate Change' failure... Reply #42 - Dec 13^th, 2010 at 3:25pm http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_percentage_of_population_livin... Check it out Australia does not appear on either list
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gizmo_2655

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Re: Another 'Climate Change' failure...
Reply #43 - Dec 13^th, 2010 at 3:38pm

Dsmithy70 wrote on Dec 13^th, 2010 at 3:21pm:

gizmo_2655 wrote on Dec 13^th, 2010 at 3:15pm:

Dsmithy70 wrote on Dec 13^th, 2010 at 2:34pm:

gizmo_2655 wrote on Dec 13^th, 2010 at 2:31pm:

Please delete wrote on Dec 13^th, 2010 at 2:23pm:

"Which really should INCLUDE China....How can a country that is a 'Superpower', with a technolgical level like China's, be considered a 'developing' nation???? "

China IS a developing nation. A very rich developing nation.

Well what is the criteria for a developed nation???

China has GDP that sh1ts on the western nations, massive export base, is pretty much self-sufficient for power and food and is racing ahead of almost every country in technology (particularly renewable/alternative energy)......

So at what point does a 'developing nation' become a developed nation????

When 90% of the population lives above the poverty line, not 40%

But doesn't that then make America, Australia, Russia and England 'developing nations' too???

Now I know your taking the p!ss
Surely you are not seriously suggesting that 60% of the populations in the countries you've mentioned live under the poverty line?
10% max for the Western
20% for Russia
& I reckon I've over estimated(guessed) with those figures

Well Australia and America have about 50% living below the poverty line, so it seems we're close....

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"I just get sick of people who place a label on someone else with their own definition.

It's similar to a strawman fallacy"
Bobbythebat

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Please delete Gold Member Offline Please delete this smacking PROFILE Posts: 2936	Re: Another 'Climate Change' failure... Reply #44 - Dec 13^th, 2010 at 3:41pm "Well Australia and America have about 50% living below the poverty line" Do we??????? I'm shocked.
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