gizmo_2655 wrote on Dec 6^th, 2010 at 12:33pm:


Yes Gizmo, that is a fair point, we have often before seen weather anomalies, but the current warming trend, and the rate of change, is accepted as being influenced by our emissions by scientists, and I accept their interpretation of the data, over that being proffered by the skeptics.
That is the best I can do, and all lay people always get back to this single point, of whether or not they accept the scientific consensus or not.
I do.

mozzaok wrote on Dec 6^th, 2010 at 12:45pm:


A) it isnt really consensus and there is considerable evidence of contrary opinions being squashed and even denied publication
B) Einstein wrote an article whose major point was that ONE fact overrides 300 contrary opinions. so where is the UNDENIABLE fact of climate events outside the normal range? There arent any.

Most 'scientific opinions' seems to be made by people whose areas of expertise is a long way from climate. the head of the IPCC is a train engineer. Ross Garnaut is an economist. and so it continues.

WHERE ARE THE REAL HARD UNDENIABLE FACTS???

mozzaok wrote on Dec 6^th, 2010 at 12:45pm:


Well I don't...Mostly because I read a wonderful quote somewhere (I'll look) that said you can 'reverse engineer' human scientific achievement simply by looking at what science has declared impossible over the years...

For example, it was widely believed 'in the 1900's' that if a man travelled faster than 50mph, their chest would cave in from the pressure....It was proven wrong.
In the 1920's, it was an accepted scientific 'truth' that if we ever split the atom, it would cause a chain reaction and destroy the Earth..

It was scientifically impossible to break the sound barrier or to leave the atmosphere of Earth, let alone reach the MOON...
We did all of those things..

Science isn't an absolute....it evolves and changes as understanding changes.
Some 'scientific' pronouncements have been incorrect.....NOT through error, just through a lack of knowledge...

As to the 'difference' between historic weather anomolies and the 'current' weather anomolies......Is there anyone on Earth who has personal experience as to what the weather was like around the world, before 1650???
No, there's not....so we can ONLY guess as to what the frequency of storms, odd climate effects and earthquakes was BEFORE the Little Ice Age...

For all WE know. this might happen every 400 years..

mozzaok wrote on Dec 6^th, 2010 at 2:24pm:


Most of those achievements WERE caused by people working against the mainstream..

And where do you get 'a few maverick voices' out of the AGW sceptic camp???

mozzaok wrote on Dec 6^th, 2010 at 3:08pm:


Hmmm interesting that there are as many, or perhaps even MORE 'whackos' than 'mainstream' isn't it???

mozzaok wrote on Dec 6^th, 2010 at 1:22pm:


For an issue that demands that we reshape our economies and our societies, yes, i DO DEMAND a few undeniable facts, just as you should. What is so wrong about demanding some proof - not just a few computer models, all of which have been shown to be deeply flawed?

mozzaok wrote on Dec 6^th, 2010 at 3:16pm:


You mean the organisations that year after year predict doom and gloom and are demonstrably wrong?  Dont they ever get embarrased by the repeated failures - often massive failures?

Itanimulli wrote on Dec 6^th, 2010 at 7:23pm:


It's sort of hard to say..
It did cover Europe, the Middle East, Africa, India and Asia....But the lack of written records or exploration of the Southern Hemisphere at the time makes it hard to tell....