Australian Politics Forum - Cheaper and better alternative to the NBN

longweekend58

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Re: Cheaper and better alternative to the NBN
Reply #60 - Dec 6^th, 2010 at 5:56pm

mozzaok wrote on Dec 6^th, 2010 at 10:55am:

lol, that would be a good analogy tickfen, if you were taalking about something with many viable alternatives, and competing products which could quickly supersede it, but we aren't, Optical Fibre stands alone, as the Broadband technology that will provide decades of fast reliable service for our country, nothing else comes close.
When I challenged Longy about the false claims he made about vdsl2, he did not even have the guts to qualify if the misinformation he provided was through ignorance of the facts, or if it was willful deception inspired by an ideological desire to support the opposition's inferior policies.

I know that being a Greenie implies lower intelligence and even less ability to respond rationally bbut let me try again to see if it is possible for you to finally GET IT.

Its not about technological superiority. It is about cost and specifically COST BENEFIT. The cost is huge and the benefits pretty slight for people in cities (well actually almost no benefit at all).

I have asked before what people in their homes expect to do with the NBN but the best i can get is internet TV. so we are paying all this money so we can watch TV???

1/4 the money can get you 95% of the functionality of the NBN. in commercial business it would be a no brainer to choose the cheaper option. But unfortunately, the NO BRAINERS are running the govt and supported by their non-thinking partisan supporters on here.

If this were Abbotts policy, you'd be screaming for blood.

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buzzanddidj Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 14245 Eganstown, via Daylesford, VIC Gender:	Re: Cheaper and better alternative to the NBN Reply #61 - Dec 6^th, 2010 at 6:07pm Quote: If this were Abbotts policy, you'd be screaming for blood. And YOU'D be backing it - 110%
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Andrei.Hicks

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Re: Cheaper and better alternative to the NBN
Reply #62 - Dec 6^th, 2010 at 7:00pm

buzzanddidj wrote on Dec 6^th, 2010 at 6:07pm:

Quote:

If this were Abbotts policy, you'd be screaming for blood.

And YOU'D be backing it - 110%

Buzz the fact you are slating Baillieu's state Government before day 1, and defending anything Labor shows how biased you are.

Why don't you actually try and look at things objectively?

Why do you feel the need to criticise everything Liberal and defend Labor all the time?

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buzzanddidj Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 14245 Eganstown, via Daylesford, VIC Gender:	Re: Cheaper and better alternative to the NBN Reply #63 - Dec 6^th, 2010 at 7:34pm Quote: Buzz the fact you are slating Baillieu's state Government before day 1 Only when he started his wholesale back-flip on Liberal Party election policy "before day 1" Baillieu: "We Can Do Better" (or maybe not ?) http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1291167686/all
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Verge

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Re: Cheaper and better alternative to the NBN
Reply #64 - Dec 6^th, 2010 at 11:43pm

You know what worries me most about the NBN.

Well, when I started my career 11 years ago everything was moved via disk (the old 1.44mb ones), dial up was a whole 5kb per second at best and our office linked via the old coaxle cable (which was great, I learnt how to do TV antenna installations as a result).

We bought a digital camera that was 4.2megapixles with a 2x opitcal zoom for a $1000 and analogue mobile phones I think were just disconnected.

Now I have a wireless connection giving me about 250kb per second, usb drives with gigabytes of storage, mobile storage of terabytes and the 12 megapixle camera we bought the father inlaw for his birthday cost $120 for the one with the lithium battery.

Our network is fast and our servers have 300 fold the storage space.

All of that in 11 short years.

Its for this reason investing $43billion in an industry that has evolved as quickly as breeding rabbits worries me.

IT moves at such a speed that is $43billion to much to spend. Im likening it to buying the new computer for $2k only to see it on sale the next week for $1,400 since its now out of date.

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Miss Anne Dryst Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 2296 Sydney Gender:	Re: Cheaper and better alternative to the NBN Reply #65 - Dec 7^th, 2010 at 6:59am And NBN workers are demanding a 15% pay rise already. Something Wendy would not have budgetted for.
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Please delete Gold Member Offline Please delete this smacking PROFILE Posts: 2936	Re: Cheaper and better alternative to the NBN Reply #66 - Dec 7^th, 2010 at 7:32am "Well, when I started my career 11 years ago everything was moved via disk" 11 years ago we had fibre, and 11 years from now we'll be using fibre, and for a long time after that.
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aussiefree2ride

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Re: Cheaper and better alternative to the NBN
Reply #67 - Dec 7^th, 2010 at 7:59am

Please delete wrote on Dec 7^th, 2010 at 7:32am:

"Well, when I started my career 11 years ago everything was moved via disk"

11 years ago we had fibre, and 11 years from now we'll be using fibre, and for a long time after that.

The motor car will never replace the horse and cart, and ships can`t sail without sails.

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Sprintcyclist

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Re: Cheaper and better alternative to the NBN
Reply #68 - Dec 7^th, 2010 at 8:22am

Quote:

..........The hype began on the NBN's day one, when Kevin Rudd said information and communications technology "drives 78 per cent of productivity gains in services businesses and 85 per cent in manufacturing"..............
............Now Gillard quotes the United Nations Broadband Commission's suggestion in September that "for every 10 per cent increase in broadband penetration we can expect an average of 1.3 per cent additional growth in national GDP". This claim traces back to a World Bank study of all communications technology stretching back to 1980, well before broadband. And a moment's thought suggests the claimed growth stimulus is implausibly large.

In the past decade, Australia's broadband penetration has increased from zero to about 25 per cent, which on these estimates should be accounting for just about all our economic growth by now. Yet this decade of broadband rollout has coincided with an alarming fall in productivity growth.............

.............Yet Productivity Commission chairman Gary Banks, the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development, the Business Council and now Reserve Bank Governor Glenn Stevens all urge putting the NBN through proper cost-benefit scrutiny. Hilmer doesn't even think we should have got to the point of arguing for a cost-benefit analysis of a government network monopoly.............

....................While possibly delivering less, this next upgrade will cost much more. Previous upgrades required modest investments at both ends of the existing copper network. This one involves rushing out a new fibre network into every home and premises in the land.

Conroy says the NBN will "transform service delivery in key areas such as health and education and energy efficiency applications".

Yet tele-medicine is mainly about connecting hospitals and doctors, not patients' homes. Existing broadband videophone technology already can partly take the place of nurse home visits. The abysmal returns on trying to replace manual medical record with e-health suggest the costs are bigger than the technologists assume.

Broadbanding our schools doesn't require putting fibre into every home. Lectures already can be downloaded by students over existing broadband. And, for the young, broadband is more about social networking than education, which in turn is more about good teachers. Smart electricity grids don't need very fast broadband and have already been rolled out in Italy without it.

The critique has pinched a nerve among NBN proponents. IT consultant Paul Budde agrees that a fibre-to-the-home network for smart electricity grids is ridiculous. And international experience does not back the superfast broadband hype..................

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/business/opinion/imagine-if-labors-broadband-payoff-is-just-hype/story-e6frg9p6-1225966636977

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Modern Classic Right Wing

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Please delete Gold Member Offline Please delete this smacking PROFILE Posts: 2936	Re: Cheaper and better alternative to the NBN Reply #69 - Dec 7^th, 2010 at 8:26am "The motor car will never replace the horse and cart, and ships can`t sail without sails. " I seem to recall that we had carts and sails for millenia, before they were replaced by the next technology. Fibre will be the backbone of communications for the next 50 years, at least.
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skippy.

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Re: Cheaper and better alternative to the NBN
Reply #70 - Dec 7^th, 2010 at 8:27am

Sprintcyclist wrote on Dec 7^th, 2010 at 8:22am:

Quote:

..........The hype began on the NBN's day one, when Kevin Rudd said information and communications technology "drives 78 per cent of productivity gains in services businesses and 85 per cent in manufacturing"..............
............Now Gillard quotes the United Nations Broadband Commission's suggestion in September that "for every 10 per cent increase in broadband penetration we can expect an average of 1.3 per cent additional growth in national GDP". This claim traces back to a World Bank study of all communications technology stretching back to 1980, well before broadband. And a moment's thought suggests the claimed growth stimulus is implausibly large.

In the past decade, Australia's broadband penetration has increased from zero to about 25 per cent, which on these estimates should be accounting for just about all our economic growth by now. Yet this decade of broadband rollout has coincided with an alarming fall in productivity growth.............

.............Yet Productivity Commission chairman Gary Banks, the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development, the Business Council and now Reserve Bank Governor Glenn Stevens all urge putting the NBN through proper cost-benefit scrutiny. Hilmer doesn't even think we should have got to the point of arguing for a cost-benefit analysis of a government network monopoly.............

....................While possibly delivering less, this next upgrade will cost much more. Previous upgrades required modest investments at both ends of the existing copper network. This one involves rushing out a new fibre network into every home and premises in the land.

Conroy says the NBN will "transform service delivery in key areas such as health and education and energy efficiency applications".

Yet tele-medicine is mainly about connecting hospitals and doctors, not patients' homes. Existing broadband videophone technology already can partly take the place of nurse home visits. The abysmal returns on trying to replace manual medical record with e-health suggest the costs are bigger than the technologists assume.

Broadbanding our schools doesn't require putting fibre into every home. Lectures already can be downloaded by students over existing broadband. And, for the young, broadband is more about social networking than education, which in turn is more about good teachers. Smart electricity grids don't need very fast broadband and have already been rolled out in Italy without it.

The critique has pinched a nerve among NBN proponents. IT consultant Paul Budde agrees that a fibre-to-the-home network for smart electricity grids is ridiculous. And international experience does not back the superfast broadband hype..................

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/business/opinion/imagine-if-labors-broadband-payoff-is-just-hype/story-e6frg9p6-1225966636977

You forgot to highlight the bits that you think prove your point sprunty.
I suppose the fact the article is from the UNAUSTRALIAN is enough. I know it is for me, as soon as I see the UNAUSTRALIAN links, I just dont bother reading it, I'll bet it doesn't say the NBN will be a success though, am I right?

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Please delete Gold Member Offline Please delete this smacking PROFILE Posts: 2936	Re: Cheaper and better alternative to the NBN Reply #71 - Dec 7^th, 2010 at 8:33am "The motor car will never replace the horse and cart, and ships can`t sail without sails. " And under Tony Abbott we'd still be using horses and carts, and there's no point talking about sails, because ships would drop off the end of the world, where there be demons.
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Sprintcyclist

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Re: Cheaper and better alternative to the NBN
Reply #72 - Dec 7^th, 2010 at 8:49am

sorry skippy

Quote:

........Yet Productivity Commission chairman Gary Banks, the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development, the Business Council and now Reserve Bank Governor Glenn Stevens all urge putting the NBN through proper cost-benefit scrutiny. Hilmer doesn't even think we should have got to the point of arguing for a cost-benefit analysis of a government network monopoly..........

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Modern Classic Right Wing

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Sprintcyclist

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Re: Cheaper and better alternative to the NBN
Reply #73 - Dec 7^th, 2010 at 8:50am

there there

Quote:

In the past decade, Australia's broadband penetration has increased from zero to about 25 per cent, which on these estimates should be accounting for just about all our economic growth by now. Yet this decade of broadband rollout has coincided with an alarming fall in productivity growth.............

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Modern Classic Right Wing

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Sprintcyclist Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 41056 Gender:	Re: Cheaper and better alternative to the NBN Reply #74 - Dec 7^th, 2010 at 8:52am and here here Quote: Yet tele-medicine is mainly about connecting hospitals and doctors, not patients' homes. Existing broadband videophone technology already can partly take the place of nurse home visits
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