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Should We Get Rid Of The Private Health Rebate ??? (Read 24822 times)
Verge
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Re: Should We Get Rid Of The Private Health Rebate ???
Reply #15 - Sep 14th, 2010 at 5:20pm
 
What a joke, my wife and I make over 100K combined so we took out the insurance to save on the costs of the medicare levy surcharge.

Get rid of the 30% rebate it cheaper for us to just pay the surcharge levy, or go out of our way to salary sacrifice so we dont pay either.

Just typical envy.  My wife and I are not even remotely rich, yet you want to screw us.  Sounds about right.
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buzzanddidj
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Re: Should We Get Rid Of The Private Health Rebate ???
Reply #16 - Sep 14th, 2010 at 6:24pm
 
Verge wrote on Sep 14th, 2010 at 5:20pm:
What a joke, my wife and I make over 100K combined so we took out the insurance to save on the costs of the medicare levy surcharge.

Get rid of the 30% rebate it cheaper for us to just pay the surcharge levy, or go out of our way to salary sacrifice so we dont pay either.

Just typical envy.  My wife and I are not even remotely rich, yet you want to screw us.  Sounds about right.





On a combined income of $100K you will not be affected by the means test - and still receive the FULL 30% rebate

It doesn't even START to reduce till a combined income of $150K pa is reached, cutting out completely on a combined income of $300K pa




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Re: Should We Get Rid Of The Private Health Rebate ???
Reply #17 - Sep 14th, 2010 at 6:32pm
 
It will get that way whereby only the wealthy will consider private health cover.  Had the Coalition won this election, I would have stepped up my level of private cover, because I would have been secure knowing it would have been worth my while, though in light of a GALP now wishing to penalise those who are clearly not wealthy at all...150k combined is far from wealthy when you have kids school fees, and a mortgage to pay etc... what's the point?

Beware people, we are going to see more and more far-left socialist policies creeping out of the woodwork, whereby only the elite will reap the benefits of socialism and it's associated far-left policies.

Roll Eyes

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Re: Should We Get Rid Of The Private Health Rebate ???
Reply #18 - Sep 14th, 2010 at 6:46pm
 
Just to clarify, as this means test seems to have been widely misconstrued .......






The Government is rebalancing the suite of policies supporting private health insurance – so that those with a greater capacity to pay for their own private health insurance do so.



•Tier 1:
for singles earning more than $75,000 (couples $150,000), the Private Health Insurance Rebate will be 20 per cent for those up to 65 years (25 per cent for those over 65, and 30 per cent for those over 70 years). The Surcharge for avoiding private health insurance will remain at one per cent.


•Tier 2:
for singles earning more than $90,000 (couples $180,000), the Private Health Insurance Rebate will be 10 per cent, for those up to 65 years (15 per cent for those over 65, and 20 per cent for those over 70 years). The Surcharge for avoiding private health insurance will be increased to 1.25 per cent.



•Tier 3:
for singles earning more than $120,000 (couples $240,000), no Private Health Insurance Rebate will be provided. The Surcharge for avoiding private health insurance will be increased to 1.5 per cent.



http://www.treasurer.gov.au/DisplayDocs.aspx?doc=pressreleases/2009/048.htm&page...

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Re: Should We Get Rid Of The Private Health Rebate ???
Reply #19 - Sep 14th, 2010 at 6:57pm
 

Since the 2007 Federal election, Libs have discovered the concept of costs-benefits analysis - but only want to apply it selectively...and therefore they continue to rely upon elitist myths and assumptions on those issues that don't stack up...

In its current form, the 30% Private Health Insurance Rebate does not stand up to any reasonable costs-benefit analysis - FACT!

Here's a relevant article from 2009: -

http://www.theage.com.au/opinion/rich-profit-from-a-sick-system-20090616-cghz.ht...

Quote:
Rich profit from a sick system

John Watson

June 17, 2009

It's time to end the wasteful private health rebate, which has not eased the burden on public hospitals.

THE private health rebate is one of the worst rorts in Australian public policy. The uncapped cost has risen to $3.5 billion a year, a subsidy to an industry that mostly caters to the better-off half of the population, and does precious little to ease the load on public hospitals.

The rebate would appear to be a natural target for anyone who professes to be concerned about wasteful spending and debt — the Coalition, for instance. Awkwardly, its constituents have become addicted to the middle-class welfare that the rebate epitomises. Last week, Coalition senators initially boycotted a Senate economics committee hearing into legislation to reduce the level of subsidy to holders of private health insurance. The bills came before the Senate again on Monday and were referred to the Community Affairs Legislation Committee for further inquiry.

It's about time something was done. Since the election of the Rudd Government in 2007, the Treasury has made repeated submissions to the effect that the rebate is "very poor policy" and should be dumped. A 2007 briefing to the Treasurer summed up the argument: "There is no doubt that its $3 billion annual cost to revenue could deliver far better health outcomes if directed to additional capacity in public hospitals." No other industry in Australia enjoys such a high level of assistance.

Treasury would appear to have had a modest victory, with the bills before the house reducing the rebate to high-income singles and couples/families: to 20 per cent for those aged under 65 and earning more than $75,000 and $150,000 respectively, with the Medicare surcharge levy remaining at 1 per cent for those without cover; to 10 per cent for earnings above $90,000 and $180,000, with the surcharge increasing by 0.25 percentage points; and cutting out the rebate altogether for incomes of more than $120,000 and $240,000, with a 0.5 percentage point increase in the surcharge.

The Treasury expects savings of $1.9 billion over four years, plus $150 million from the surcharge. It predicts that, faced with the stick of a surcharge increase, only about 25,000 adults will drop out. Last year, despite a rise in the income thresholds at which the surcharge applies, private health membership rose to 48.8 per cent of Australians.

Predictably, the health funds are warning of a much more disastrous impact, arguing that "supporting private health frees up public beds for those who need them most", in the words of Catholic Health Australia chief executive Martin Laverty. He cites an Access Economics report that predicts 100,000 will drop out of private health — others claim as many as 250,000 — forcing up premiums and swelling public hospital queues by 36,000 patients. (Treasury's estimate is 8000 over two years.)

There are several assumptions here: that private cover greatly eases the burden on public hospitals; that the rebate is a strong driver of membership; and that private health is equally cost-efficient. These claims were also made earlier this year in a letter to The Age by Australian Health Services Alliance CEO David King, who cited Ipsos Australia as his authority.

None of these claims is supported by the evidence collected in the decade that various "carrot and stick" measures to support private health were introduced. The rebate is a sop to people paying for private cover, but did very little to boost membership.

It was the policy "sticks" of the surcharge and lifetime health cover (which lifts premiums for every year that people over the age of 30 stay out of private cover) that did the trick. Health funds openly promote products that minimise coverage — the public system covers the gaps — while offering a way to "reduce tax". In the past, some people could even be better off financially for taking out health cover.

Consider what Ipsos, which surveys the health market for the industry, had to tell a Australian Health Industry Association national conference before the current rearguard action against the Rudd Government reforms began.

Message 1 was that private cover was far from being seen as a "must have", and the sticks far outweighed the rebate carrot in their effect. Hence Message 2, "A lot of 'stick … not much carrot" and Message 3: "If the 'stick' works … look for a bigger stick!".

To reinforce the point, an Ipsos graph, for the period 1997 to 2005, showed 12 per cent of inquiries were "converted" into sales in 1999, when the rebate took effect. In its first year, only 0.8 per cent of the population joined up. After lifetime health cover came in, the "sales conversion" rate jumped to 49 per cent (labelled on the graph as the LHC Effect) and membership rose from 32.2 per cent...
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mellie
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Re: Should We Get Rid Of The Private Health Rebate ???
Reply #20 - Sep 14th, 2010 at 6:58pm
 
Nothings been misconstrued at all, those who forked out for private health cover (and were basically forced to).. will be worse off AGAIN.
If my estimates are correct, young singles ,Greens meterosexuals and non breeders will be better off, though mature working couples and ordinary family's will be paying approx 10% more (in some cases more, depending on how close you are to the cut-off) based on a duel income earning of 150k.

Roll Eyes The GALP don't like woooeerrking famaleees do they.

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Re: Should We Get Rid Of The Private Health Rebate ???
Reply #21 - Sep 14th, 2010 at 7:03pm
 

/Contd.

Quote:
Consider what Ipsos, which surveys the health market for the industry, had to tell a Australian Health Industry Association national conference before the current rearguard action against the Rudd Government reforms began.

Message 1 was that private cover was far from being seen as a "must have", and the sticks far outweighed the rebate carrot in their effect. Hence Message 2, "A lot of 'stick … not much carrot" and Message 3: "If the 'stick' works … look for a bigger stick!".

To reinforce the point, an Ipsos graph, for the period 1997 to 2005, showed 12 per cent of inquiries were "converted" into sales in 1999, when the rebate took effect. In its first year, only 0.8 per cent of the population joined up.

After lifetime health cover came in, the "sales conversion" rate jumped to 49 per cent (labelled on the graph as the LHC Effect) and membership rose from 32.2 per cent of the population in March 2000 to 45.8 per cent in September 2000.

Surely, the public hospitals' load was eased as a result? The Australian Healthcare and Hospitals Association says the past decade's policies had "no effect in taking the burden off the public hospital system".

Data published by the Australian Institute of Health and Welfare shows no discernible decline in the use of public hospitals in the years 2001-02 to 2003-04, the period immediately following the 42 per cent increase in private hospital coverage.


Government spending on public hospitals grew annually by 8.9 per cent, up from 8.1 per cent in the period 1996-7 to 1998-9. Health fund finances have improved, though. Gross industry margins were up from about 10 per cent in 2001-02 to 15 per cent in 2006-07.

Meanwhile, increasing numbers of private patients are admitted to public hospitals — about one in 10 admissions — as public hospitals seek extra revenue. Each private patient in a public hospital is denying a patient on a public waiting list a bed.

The cost per procedure is significantly higher for private patients than public patients and fund members are more likely to seek non-essential treatment to justify the cost of their premiums. Health fund administration costs are also three times higher than those of Medicare.

Taxpayers get much more bang for their buck from public health funding, by some estimates 20 per cent more, than from private health subsidies.

If people can afford it, let them take out private cover — as I have — to avoid waiting lists and jump the queue, which is really the main attraction. But they should not expect to be subsidised by the taxpayers who don't have private cover, still a majority, and who don't see any benefits flowing to the public hospital system.

John Watson is a senior writer.



http://www.theage.com.au/opinion/rich-profit-from-a-sick-system-20090616-cghz.ht...
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Re: Should We Get Rid Of The Private Health Rebate ???
Reply #22 - Sep 14th, 2010 at 7:12pm
 
I think the GALP think if they can change policy, they can change society, keep our birth rate low, allowing for more immigrants and their progeny to arrive , work for peanuts and allow foreign investors to buy up what's left of our artificially inflated housing market.
If you are a Meterosexual 'unmarried gay couple' who declare themselves mere flat-mates, you could really cash in here....take a look at it, it's more affordable to declare yourself single, than pay the duel-income rate.

Sure leaves the traditional family disadvantaged, when saying "I do" just became so much more of a burden.

I might be wrong here, but this is what it looks like to me.

Thanks GALP...  when being a single gay with an adopted child (and a flat-mate) becomes the more viable alternative to a nuclear Australian family.





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Re: Should We Get Rid Of The Private Health Rebate ???
Reply #23 - Sep 14th, 2010 at 7:13pm
 
We live comfortably on 60k. We are not poor. I guess to those who earn 20k we are well off. We have private health insurance. Without the rebate we probably could still afford it. But why shouldn't we get it?
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Re: Should We Get Rid Of The Private Health Rebate ???
Reply #24 - Sep 14th, 2010 at 7:16pm
 
I remember a certain hicks on Yahoo complaining that he had to take his sick daughter to a public hospital when she was ill.

And this is the point of health.  If you are in an accident, need urgent care, get in a fight then where do you end up?  In the PUBLIC system.  If you declare a private health insurance then you MAY get a better room and your own doctor if he is available, but buy and large you are at the mercy of public emergency procedures.

If you have a life threatening need for an operation, the public system will assist = of course if you have private insurance, you may get the same doctor in a private hospital, but you will be more comfortable in your single room.

If you need elective surgery, then private will see you through much quicker than public, but then again you have paid for it.

The wish of many would be to stay public, but save the insurance premium in a bank for a rainy day - I guess a few people may actually do that

Me, I have had private insurance for decades, if I need to go to publicemergency i declare it - even though in the end it costs me more
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Re: Should We Get Rid Of The Private Health Rebate ???
Reply #25 - Sep 14th, 2010 at 7:17pm
 
mellie wrote on Sep 14th, 2010 at 7:12pm:
I think the GALP think if they can change policy, they can change society, keep our birth rate low, allowing for more immigrants and their progeny to arrive , work for peanuts and allow foreign investors to buy up what's left of our artificially inflated housing market.
If you are a Meterosexual 'unmarried gay couple' who declare themselves mere flat-mates, you could really cash in here....take a look at it, it's more affordable to declare yourself single, than pay the duel-income rate.


A great rambling, but WTF has it to do with the topic of this thread?
Sure leaves the traditional family disadvantaged, when saying "I do" just became so much more of a burden.

I might be wrong here, but this is what it looks like to me.

Thanks GALP...  when being a single gay with an adopted child (and a flat-mate) becomes the more viable alternative to a nuclear Australian family.






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Re: Should We Get Rid Of The Private Health Rebate ???
Reply #26 - Sep 14th, 2010 at 7:19pm
 
mellie wrote on Sep 14th, 2010 at 7:12pm:
I think the GALP think if they can change policy, they can change society, keep our birth rate low, allowing for more immigrants and their progeny to arrive , work for peanuts and allow foreign investors to buy up what's left of our artificially inflated housing market.
If you are a Meterosexual 'unmarried gay couple' who declare themselves mere flat-mates, you could really cash in here....take a look at it, it's more affordable to declare yourself single, than pay the duel-income rate.


Sure leaves the traditional family disadvantaged, when saying "I do" just became so much more of a burden.

I might be wrong here, but this is what it looks like to me.

Thanks GALP...  when being a single gay with an adopted child (and a flat-mate) becomes the more viable alternative to a nuclear Australian family.








Umm yeah...A great rant.  But WTF has it to do with this thread?
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Re: Should We Get Rid Of The Private Health Rebate ???
Reply #27 - Sep 14th, 2010 at 7:26pm
 

Deborahmac09 wrote on Sep 14th, 2010 at 7:13pm:
We live comfortably on 60k. We are not poor. I guess to those who earn 20k we are well off. We have private health insurance. Without the rebate we probably could still afford it. But why shouldn't we get it?


Do we presume that you meant $200K?

The issue, Deborah, is that the non-means-tested rebate is not only inefficient but it is actually counter-productive - especially when we consider the opportunity costs!

What's worse: the rebate was unnecessary because the associated sticks have proven to work far better than the carrot!

Since we now have this wasteful carrot, it is difficult to remove it without backlash - so means-testing of the rebate is probably the best way forward!





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Re: Should We Get Rid Of The Private Health Rebate ???
Reply #28 - Sep 14th, 2010 at 7:35pm
 
Read it again, sam...  if health premiums become so unaffordable this and the medicare levy is lifted also, (penalised whichever way you go)...then are people going to be inclined to have one for mum, one for dad, and one for the country?

Just look at it, it's more affordable to be flat mates paying a single rate than a nuclear working family's combined rate.

Boomers are clearly being targeted here, as they are still working, are at a life-stage whereby they are earning more money now than they were before, have climbed the ladder and reached their maximum career potential (I can only speak for both my parents who are both 56)...,  though their kids have generally left the nest, (well, should have anyway)... and now they are being penalised for it.





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« Last Edit: Sep 14th, 2010 at 7:40pm by mellie »  

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Re: Should We Get Rid Of The Private Health Rebate ???
Reply #29 - Sep 14th, 2010 at 7:43pm
 
Equitist wrote on Sep 14th, 2010 at 7:26pm:
Deborahmac09 wrote on Sep 14th, 2010 at 7:13pm:
We live comfortably on 60k. We are not poor. I guess to those who earn 20k we are well off. We have private health insurance. Without the rebate we probably could still afford it. But why shouldn't we get it?


Do we presume that you meant $200K?

The issue, Deborah, is that the non-means-tested rebate is not only inefficient but it is actually counter-productive - especially when we consider the opportunity costs!

What's worse: the rebate was unnecessary because the associated sticks have proven to work far better than the carrot!

Since we now have this wasteful carrot, it is difficult to remove it without backlash - so means-testing of the rebate is probably the best way forward!







No Equitist, I meant 20k. Which is less than our 60k and why I said, to them we would seem well off.
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