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emissions trading vs carbon taxes (Read 10724 times)
freediver
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Re: emissions trading vs carbon taxes
Reply #60 - Aug 22nd, 2010 at 10:00am
 
Muso, you keep insisting that the public simply won;t accept carbon taxes and that we must therefor adopt models that are inferior from an economic perspective.

How do you respond to this?

http://christine-milne.greensmps.org.au/content/media-release/greens-welcome-carbon-tax-support-alp-mps

Quote:
The fastest and most effective way to do this would be to adopt the Greens' proposal for a levy on the biggest polluters, developed from Professor Garnaut's recommendations and supported by economists, unions, the environment movement and 72% of voters.
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BlOoDy RiPpEr
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Re: emissions trading vs carbon taxes
Reply #61 - Aug 22nd, 2010 at 3:36pm
 
I don’t see why we need to go down the ETS road, since all it does is lower the standard of living as people are forced too choose between power and food. Per country Australia's levels of pollution is quite low. Sure we don’t have the numbers of people other countries have so per capita our level might be high. but never the less we should not be selling our self’s short due to other countries over population problems. After all we do not get a say in governing them. But what we could do is hold them accountable. Countries like China and India have the highest pollution in the world. Australia is in a position to take advantage of these nations to clean up our own act and also increase our own manufacturing.
What we need too do is start charging a pollution tax on all imported product. This will make 'Australian Made' product more completive and all money made from the tax could then go toward creating a cleaner industry.
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freediver
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Re: emissions trading vs carbon taxes
Reply #62 - Aug 22nd, 2010 at 4:22pm
 
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but never the less we should not be selling our self’s short due to other countries over population problems.


That does not make sense. Gross population and overpopulation are not the same thing.

Quote:
What we need too do is start charging a pollution tax on all imported product. This will make 'Australian Made' product more completive and all money made from the tax could then go toward creating a cleaner industry.


We need a good agreement between a lot of countries before we start doing things like that. Otherwise they just respond with tariffs on our goods.
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Re: emissions trading vs carbon taxes
Reply #63 - Aug 22nd, 2010 at 4:59pm
 
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We need a good agreement between a lot of countries before we start doing things like that. Otherwise they just respond with tariffs on our goods.

That’s the thing most people do not realise, many of them still do apply tariffs. China for one is a country that charges an internal tax on imported products that has the same affect as a tariff. Its not like our product export market will be affected because just about everything is imported mostly from china, we are even importing food that we don’t need that we produce more then enough for our self’s.
So if China was to apply another tariff on Australian product because we introduced a pollution tax we could easily wack a pollution tax and a tariff. I'm sure china will be more effected then us. And china will still be needing resources.
But I do not see a problem is all countries in the world implemented a pollution tax on imported products as its quite stupid for a country to source a product from other nations when they can produce these products them self’s.
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Re: emissions trading vs carbon taxes
Reply #64 - Aug 22nd, 2010 at 6:14pm
 
freediver wrote on Aug 22nd, 2010 at 10:00am:
Muso, you keep insisting that the public simply won;t accept carbon taxes and that we must therefor adopt models that are inferior from an economic perspective.

How do you respond to this?

http://christine-milne.greensmps.org.au/content/media-release/greens-welcome-carbon-tax-support-alp-mps

Quote:
The fastest and most effective way to do this would be to adopt the Greens' proposal for a levy on the biggest polluters, developed from Professor Garnaut's recommendations and supported by economists, unions, the environment movement and 72% of voters.


I agree with it, but the majority of people in Australia did not vote for the Greens.

Therefore it's not going to happen, so it's totally pointless talking about it. The question is one of how can we get a favorable outcome? (preferably in the next 10 years)

I still maintain that in order to get the electorate to accept it, we need to sweeten the pill - similar to the UK's decision not to apply the carbon tax to domestic consumers.
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Re: emissions trading vs carbon taxes
Reply #65 - Aug 22nd, 2010 at 9:36pm
 
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I agree with it, but the majority of people in Australia did not vote for the Greens.


Voting for the greens and supporting a price on carbon is not the same thing. Labor supports the principle, they just made it too complicated in practice. The opposition leader for a while supported carbon taxes. The majority of economists support it. It is hardly a fringe movement.
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Re: emissions trading vs carbon taxes
Reply #66 - Aug 23rd, 2010 at 7:57am
 
If they can get it through, they should. If they can't get anything working within 10 years, they should look at wooing the electorate. I just can't see it happening with a minority government.
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Re: emissions trading vs carbon taxes
Reply #67 - Aug 23rd, 2010 at 9:17am
 
I think a Carbon tax is a real possibility if we see a Gillard led minority government.

I think they would ditch the stupidly convoluted ETS that cost them so dearly, and with input from the Greens, and the Independents, they may get a small Carbon Tax in place, as well as a strong renewable energy policy, and if they could do that, then we will all be the better off for it.

If we see an Abbot and Independents minority, I can only imagine that he would sidetrack any moves toward Carbon Pricing and Renewables, as he really does believe they are unnecessary, and doesn't care that the majority of aussies, and the world's scientists disagree with that opinion.
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Re: emissions trading vs carbon taxes
Reply #68 - Aug 23rd, 2010 at 9:27am
 

a leftard tax or a more leftard tax.

lucky you got 36% bullyboy, only cause of judass lies and a HUGE budget.
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muso
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Re: emissions trading vs carbon taxes
Reply #69 - Aug 23rd, 2010 at 10:44am
 
Sprintcyclist wrote on Aug 23rd, 2010 at 9:27am:
a leftard tax or a more leftard tax.

lucky you got 36% bullyboy, only cause of judass lies and a HUGE budget.


Maybe you should keep track with your mates in the USA and what they are doing. Your politics is more in line with the US Republicans than the Australian Liberals, Sprint.

http://politifi.com/news/Republican-lawmakers-back-carbon-tax-yes-thats-right-87...

Quote:
Bob Inglis of South Carolina and Jeff Flake of Arizona on Wednesday became the first Republican lawmakers to introduce Legislation imposing a Carbon Tax on producers and distributors of Fossil Fuels.

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muso
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Re: emissions trading vs carbon taxes
Reply #70 - Aug 23rd, 2010 at 4:10pm
 
mozzaok wrote on Aug 23rd, 2010 at 9:17am:
I think a Carbon tax is a real possibility if we see a Gillard led minority government.

I think they would ditch the stupidly convoluted ETS that cost them so dearly, and with input from the Greens, and the Independents, they may get a small Carbon Tax in place, as well as a strong renewable energy policy, and if they could do that, then we will all be the better off for it.

If we see an Abbot and Independents minority, I can only imagine that he would sidetrack any moves toward Carbon Pricing and Renewables, as he really does believe they are unnecessary, and doesn't care that the majority of aussies, and the world's scientists disagree with that opinion.



I agree with what you say. However let's just suppose that there is a Gillard led minority government. They would have problems getting it through the House of Reps with the current Independants, unless we get some Liberals crossing the floor.

They would have no problem getting it through the Senate with all the Greens there and a sizeable number of ALP senators from the previous election. However as soon as there was a no-confidence motion, we'd have another Election, and the Libs would be running on the platform of removing the Carbon Tax.
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Re: emissions trading vs carbon taxes
Reply #71 - Aug 23rd, 2010 at 8:07pm
 
mozzaok wrote on Aug 23rd, 2010 at 9:17am:
If we see an Abbot and Independents minority, I can only imagine that he would sidetrack any moves toward Carbon Pricing and Renewables, as he really does believe they are unnecessary, and doesn't care that the majority of aussies, and the world's scientists disagree with that opinion.


I would expect them to come up with some scheme involving paying farmers large sums of money to do very little.

Quote:
and the Libs would be running on the platform of removing the Carbon Tax


I doubt that. Turnbull and a few others would cross the floor. Whatever gets in, we will be stuck with it.
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