Australian Politics Forum - Drug testing in the workplace

The Mole Gold Member Offline http://www.ozpolitic .co/album/forum-atta chments/y Posts: 1499 Gender:	Re: Drug testing in the workplace Reply #90 - Jul 18^th, 2010 at 1:19am Everytime someone mentions drugs I think of the weasel, have no idea why ?
Back to top	« Last Edit: Jul 18^th, 2010 at 1:26am by The Mole » "Why Johnny Ringo, you look like someone just walked over your grave" IP Logged

muso

Gold Member

Offline

Posts: 13151
Gladstone, Queensland
Gender: male

Re: Drug testing in the workplace
Reply #91 - Jul 18^th, 2010 at 7:39am

Amadd wrote on Jul 18^th, 2010 at 12:54am:

Quote:

You can understand the traffic in a city enough to predict it, although you can't understand what every person in every car is going to do on a particular day. ...etc.

That makes some sense to me.
To be quite honest, I'm not really hard wired to do drugs on anything more than a very occassional basis, if at all.
What I am hard wired for is to be a stubborn mule.

Using your analogy of "general traffic flow", I can only see chaos resulting from the denial of rights to decide on a personal route.

Red flags, roadblocks and signs pointing to cliff-edges will predictably result in more people stopping in the middle of the street and doing U-turns, further aggravating the traffic flow problem.

Maybe your personal God says to you that the signs lead to a utopia, but mine says that they lead to a cliff edge.
Humanity already has been there and done that in countless societies throughout history. The results have always been very predictable.

You're thinking at Computer game level when I was talking about machine code. If you want to know what I'm talking about, Google Cognitive Psychology, have a good read, then Google "Neuro Linguistic Programming". The latter needs a good BS filter. There is a lot of nonsense spoken about it, but those aspects that can be shown valid through cognitive science can be successfully applied. I used to have a fear of flying for example. I no longer have that fear.

I don't have a personal god. I only have a wooden one that somebody gave me in Africa. I asked what it was, and they said "It's a god". I replied. Well it certainly exists, so that means I'm no longer an atheist.

It doesn't do anything, except trigger a useful reminder that I must never go back to Africa, or I'll probably die there.

When I said that we all have our 'gods', I just meant that we all have our personal mythologies that help us to get through life.

If society were to collectively ignore anything that was 'all in the mind', we'd be in dire straits. The Stockmarket would collapse, and the price of gold and diamonds would plummet.

We need the 'music'.

And in the streets the children screamed
The lovers cried, and the poets dreamed
but not a word was spoken
The church bells all were broken
And the three men I admire the most
The father son and holy ghost
They caught the last train for the coast,
The day the music died...

I don't mean music, and I suspect that Don McLean meant other things as well as music.

Back to top

« Last Edit: Jul 18^th, 2010 at 7:50am by muso »

1523 people like this. The remaining 7,134,765,234 do not

IP Logged

G_P New Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 6	Re: Drug testing in the workplace Reply #92 - Jul 18^th, 2010 at 6:42pm Computer game V machine code. Nice analogy.
Back to top	IP Logged

Amadd

Gold Member

Offline

Mo

Posts: 6217

Re: Drug testing in the workplace
Reply #93 - Jul 18^th, 2010 at 8:40pm

Quote:

I don't have a personal god. I only have a wooden one that somebody gave me in Africa. I asked what it was, and they said "It's a god". I replied. Well it certainly exists, so that means I'm no longer an atheist.

It doesn't do anything, except trigger a useful reminder that I must never go back to Africa, or I'll probably die there.

Well if you don't believe that it has magical powers and would have no trouble burning it for fear of unworldly repercussions, then you are still an athiest.

Back to top

IP Logged

muso

Gold Member

Offline

Posts: 13151
Gladstone, Queensland
Gender: male

Re: Drug testing in the workplace
Reply #94 - Jul 18^th, 2010 at 8:48pm

Amadd wrote on Jul 18^th, 2010 at 8:40pm:

Quote:

I don't have a personal god. I only have a wooden one that somebody gave me in Africa. I asked what it was, and they said "It's a god". I replied. Well it certainly exists, so that means I'm no longer an atheist.

It doesn't do anything, except trigger a useful reminder that I must never go back to Africa, or I'll probably die there.

Well if you don't believe that it has magical powers and would have no trouble burning it for fear of unworldly repercussions, then you are still an athiest.

Nope. Unless you can define god in some way that fits the definition of every religion in the world, that is. I don't find the word atheist to be even slightly descriptive of my world view, so I prefer to use the term Bright. To me, the term atheist is meaningless, except to differentiate between those people who believe in gods and those who do not, and that to me is is a trivial distinction.

We all believe in imaginary concepts. Like I said before, we need the 'music'. It's part of being human. The supreme creator god is just a subset of god. Something is a god if somebody refers to it thus, because ultimately gods are defined by man.

I use the definition that an atheist doesn't believe in gods (any gods), and my wooden god is a god. I am as stubborn about that as you are about detection devices. Wink

Back to top

« Last Edit: Jul 18^th, 2010 at 8:57pm by muso »

1523 people like this. The remaining 7,134,765,234 do not

IP Logged

muso

Gold Member

Offline

Posts: 13151
Gladstone, Queensland
Gender: male

Re: Drug testing in the workplace
Reply #95 - Jul 18^th, 2010 at 9:08pm

I can actually empathise with the Pantheist approach more than I understand the Atheist approach.

In the Pantheistic position, God is described as a manifestation of the natural universe, its natural laws (the laws of physics, biology, etc., etc.), and the awe and inspiration it can stir within the individual.

Couldn't this be described as "god"? There is no supernatural being, and no personification according to the Pantheist. God is nothing more than the total sum of the universe, and this is what draws from us the awe and inspiration that throughout the ages have been poured out of us like water into much of our great literature. It even spills a bit into science.

Is this pantheistic god capable of miracles? Well life is a miracle in a way. Intelligent, self sentient life is definitely a miracle if a miracle is something that awes and inspires.

Do you still think I'm an atheist?

Back to top

« Last Edit: Jul 19^th, 2010 at 12:18pm by muso »

1523 people like this. The remaining 7,134,765,234 do not

IP Logged

Amadd

Gold Member

Offline

Mo

Posts: 6217

Re: Drug testing in the workplace
Reply #96 - Jul 19^th, 2010 at 4:29pm

Quote:

Nope. Unless you can define god in some way that fits the definition of every religion in the world, that is.

But you said "a" God, not "the" God, as most major religions (one in particular..ahhemm ) would have you believe.

Maybe my definition of atheism, or what atheism means to me, is somewhat different to yours.
In a more narrow sense of the word, an 'a'theist, is not a theist. It is merely an absense of theism. An 'A'theist is by no means an anti-theist by definition.
You could go on forever trying to define atheist views into a particular category, however, the views are not the same, and they are not a religion unto themselves.
So there's no use arguing about it when most atheists just consider themselves as being "those who do not practise theism".

By "Personal God", I am meaning something as individual to yourself as your own fingerprint, comprising of your own genetic makeup, your own experiences, your own teachings, learnings, rationalizations....and whatever else goes into the moshpit.
It's not for me to say what your personal God is, because I can never really know, but I'm happy enough to listen.

"The day the music died"
Maybe you're reading too much into the meaning of the lyrics, or maybe not quite enough.
The song was powerful enough without reading anymore into it; three irresistible musicians gone in a flash without ever realising their potential.
And how about Richie Valens? His personal God told him not to fly. He had recurring dreams of a plane crash. His most dreaded fears were eventually cured..the day the music died.
It kinda reminds me of a woman who recently went to 'Monkey island' (off Thailand) to conquer her fear of monkeys.
She got surrounded and mauled by a pack of monkeys who could smell her fear, or had a wi-fi connection to her personal God who told the monkeys to "attack the unbeliever!!".

It's not for me to decide the path that anybody else should take unless I consider my personal God to be the omnipotent one.
In that vein, I take umbrage at others who consider their own God to be the omnipotent one.

Back to top

IP Logged

muso

Gold Member

Offline

Posts: 13151
Gladstone, Queensland
Gender: male

Re: Drug testing in the workplace
Reply #97 - Jul 19^th, 2010 at 5:45pm

Amadd wrote on Jul 19^th, 2010 at 4:29pm:

"The day the music died"
Maybe you're reading too much into the meaning of the lyrics, or maybe not quite enough.
The song was powerful enough without reading anymore into it; three irresistible musicians gone in a flash without ever realising their potential.
And how about Richie Valens? His personal God told him not to fly. He had recurring dreams of a plane crash. His most dreaded fears were eventually cured..the day the music died.

Fair enough on the first part. I know the standard interpretation of American Pie, and I know the references to Elvis, Bob Dylan etc

Of course Don McLean was a Catholic, and there are religious overtones in the song. Even if he didn't intend it that way, it's much deeper than just a longer piece of music that DJ's used to play because they wanted to go to the can.

It's also a useful analogy for the spiritual nature of man. It's no coincidence that religions make good use of music in its rituals.

Back to top

1523 people like this. The remaining 7,134,765,234 do not

IP Logged

Tim L New Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 14	Re: Drug testing in the workplace Reply #98 - Sep 10^th, 2010 at 2:37pm What are your thoughts towards the Australian Federal Election? http://www.surveymonkey.com/s/KVYF99W Your feedback is highly welcomed.
Back to top	IP Logged

Amadd Gold Member Offline Mo Posts: 6217	Re: Drug testing in the workplace Reply #99 - Sep 10^th, 2010 at 7:04pm Quote: It's also a useful analogy for the spiritual nature of man. It's no coincidence that religions make good use of music in its rituals. Yeah but the (overly) religious make crap music. Could it be that they just don't get it?
Back to top	IP Logged

Aiden New Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 3	Re: Drug testing in the workplace Reply #100 - Oct 22^nd, 2011 at 3:45pm I smoke weed about once or twice a month I work at drake Foodland supermarket they do drug tests I herd if I get drug tested and its positive can they fire me or is if I’m on drugs at the time they can only fire me then
Back to top	IP Logged

Amadd Gold Member Offline Mo Posts: 6217	Re: Drug testing in the workplace Reply #101 - Oct 22^nd, 2011 at 11:05pm They can fire you if they detect something on the banned list within your system. How you function during your work hours has little to do with it, ..it's much more to do with what you do outside of your working hours when they can't keep an eye on you. That's where they're interest resides.
Back to top	IP Logged

muso

Gold Member

Offline

Posts: 13151
Gladstone, Queensland
Gender: male

Re: Drug testing in the workplace
Reply #102 - Oct 23^rd, 2011 at 12:15pm

Aiden wrote on Oct 22^nd, 2011 at 3:45pm:

I smoke weed about once or twice a month
I work at drake Foodland supermarket
they do drug tests I herd
if I get drug tested and its positive can they fire me
or is if I’m on drugs at the time they can only fire me then

It all depends on their HR Policies and their testing methodology. If they use saliva testing, it's unlikely that you'd be caught unless you had pot for breakfast. Even so, most kits are insensitive, although there are some that will detect 8ng.

If they have decent drug testing policies, you would go through counselling, and perhaps more frequent targeted testing if you tested positive.

Back to top

1523 people like this. The remaining 7,134,765,234 do not

IP Logged

Amadd Gold Member Offline Mo Posts: 6217	Re: Drug testing in the workplace Reply #103 - Oct 30^th, 2011 at 1:56am It all depends upon whether they want to fire you or not. If they want to fire you, then they will employ a different method of testing. This is our free nation, it has absolutely FA to do with real worth.
Back to top	IP Logged

Kat

Gold Member

Offline

Socialism IS the answer.

Posts: 17709
Everywhere and no-where
Gender: female

Re: Drug testing in the workplace
Reply #104 - Nov 2^nd, 2011 at 8:48pm

My two-bob's-worth.......

If I was applying for a job, and discovered that drug/alcohol testing
was a part of the application process, I'd withdraw my application.

If, after having already OBTAINED the job, they
tried to bring it in, I'd refuse to participate.

If they pressed the point, I'd resign on the spot.

I will NOT comply.

Ever.

And that's PRINCIPLE.

NOT guilt.

Back to top

IP Logged