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Richard Dawkins in Oz (Read 26836 times)
Soren
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Re: Richard Dawkins in Oz
Reply #255 - May 14th, 2010 at 10:33pm
 
NorthOfNorth wrote on May 14th, 2010 at 10:07pm:
Soren wrote on May 14th, 2010 at 9:52pm:
Yeah, blow me down wiv a fevver - I look for reasons rather than unreasons - call me peculiar.


You look for certainty rather the certainty of uncertainty... Call it ironic...

You don't have to look for uncertainty. That's like looking for sand in the Sahara. If you were personally happy with uncertainty you wouldn't utter a word, ever again - pointless. Atheist rhetoric is irreconcilable with athesist desire to be 'right'. All you can claim is that the purposeless and meaningless elephant's legs go all the way down.

Atheist morality or purposefulness is meaningless. Stop flailing as if you ha any meaning to convey. You don't.


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NorthOfNorth
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Re: Richard Dawkins in Oz
Reply #256 - May 14th, 2010 at 10:49pm
 
Soren wrote on May 14th, 2010 at 10:33pm:
You don't have to look for uncertainty. That's like looking for sand in the Sahara. If you were personally happy with uncertainty you wouldn't utter a word, ever again - pointless.

Who said anything about happy with it? Truth before comfort.

I'm sure you don't think we believe you're happy.
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Conviction is the art of being certain
 
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NorthOfNorth
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Re: Richard Dawkins in Oz
Reply #257 - May 14th, 2010 at 11:14pm
 
Soren wrote on May 14th, 2010 at 10:33pm:
Atheist rhetoric is irreconcilable with athesist desire to be 'right'.

Yep... I'm hearing the irony.... And... Loving it.
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Soren
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Re: Richard Dawkins in Oz
Reply #258 - May 14th, 2010 at 11:56pm
 
NorthOfNorth wrote on May 14th, 2010 at 10:49pm:
I'm sure you don't think we believe you're happy.


No. But as long as you see that I'm right - I'm happy ... enough.


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muso
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Re: Richard Dawkins in Oz
Reply #259 - May 15th, 2010 at 7:42am
 
Soren wrote on May 14th, 2010 at 9:52pm:
Yeah, blow me down wiv a fevver - I look for reasons rather than unreasons - call me peculiar.



It's good that you look for reasons. Keep looking.

I will probably never stop looking. I regard my world-view like a garden. I could keep the same plants in there from year to year, but they'd soon get woody, unattractive and overgrown.

It's better to keep planting and keep experimenting with different colours and different varieties. I might never find my perfect garden, but I'll learn a lot along the way.
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mozzaok
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Re: Richard Dawkins in Oz
Reply #260 - May 15th, 2010 at 9:49am
 
Quote:
It's better to keep planting and keep experimenting with different colours and different varieties


Brian -- "I am NOT, the messiah"
Man following-- "Well I say you are,   And I should know, I've followed enough of 'em"

I don't know if you are familiar with Guru Maharaj Ji, or Prem Rawat, as he is now known, but he has a show on our public access channel here in Melbourne, CH 31, and he gives talks, usually to pretty responsive audiences, who lap up his philosophic ruminations on peace, love, and understanding, as if he invented the concepts themselves.

When he was young, a significant cult following, calling itself, 'The Divine Light Mission', grew up around his teachings, and many, if not all, believed he was the "Messiah", they really, really, did.

This belief stemmed from their adding their personal interpretations of his teachings, to their own religious framework, almost exclusively Judeo-Christian, which has been preaching the Messiah myth for thousands of years.

At the time, it was damned embarassing watching these fools prostrate themselves before the guru, who not unlike 'Brian", assured them he was not the messiah, which apparently was the only teaching of his they refused to believe.

That tells us something about people, and their ability to self delude, and while some people feel it is a harmless indulgence, or even a beneficial one, I strongly feel that divorcing oneself from reality serves to diminish us, and reduces our ability to make the best of the one reality, and one life, that we all share.
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OOPS!!! My Karma, ran over your Dogma!
 
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muso
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Re: Richard Dawkins in Oz
Reply #261 - May 15th, 2010 at 10:14am
 
Siddhattha Gotama spent most of his life trying to tell people that it was not him, but the message that was important.

Quote:
Believe nothing, no matter where you read it, or who said it, no matter if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and your own common sense.
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mozzaok
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Re: Richard Dawkins in Oz
Reply #262 - May 15th, 2010 at 10:32am
 
Hang on, what day is it??

Quote:
Believe nothing, no matter where you read it, or who said it, no matter if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and your own common sense.



What creed are you following today muso?
I fear I may have to join up, as that creed actually makes sense.
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muso
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Re: Richard Dawkins in Oz
Reply #263 - May 15th, 2010 at 12:25pm
 
mozzaok wrote on May 15th, 2010 at 10:32am:
Hang on, what day is it??

Quote:
Believe nothing, no matter where you read it, or who said it, no matter if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and your own common sense.


What creed are you following today muso?
I fear I may have to join up, as that creed actually makes sense.



It's a quotation from Siddhattha Gotama  (Buddha), and it's an element of sati, or an awareness to see things for what they are with clear consciousness, being aware of the present reality within oneself, without any craving or aversion.

(Even a belief in God is a craving. Buddha made the point that these cravings inevitably lead to suffering)

If you want a 5 minute guide to Buddhism, here you go:

http://www.buddhanet.net/e-learning/5minbud.htm

Buddhist today, but tomorrow is Sunday - my day of rest from religion.
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NorthOfNorth
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Re: Richard Dawkins in Oz
Reply #264 - May 15th, 2010 at 12:43pm
 
muso wrote on May 15th, 2010 at 10:14am:
Siddhattha Gotama spent most of his life trying to tell people that it was not him, but the message that was important.

Quote:
Believe nothing, no matter where you read it, or who said it, no matter if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and your own common sense.

But eventually the questions must stop... If they do not, you must either accept the doctrine on trust and embrace it or reject the doctrine and walk away.

Incessant questioning indicates a resistance to acceptance of the doctrine which, in Buddhist terms, is a craving to resist or reject it... And if Buddhism itself causes you suffering, then you should walk away.
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Conviction is the art of being certain
 
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mozzaok
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Re: Richard Dawkins in Oz
Reply #265 - May 15th, 2010 at 1:42pm
 
Quote:
but tomorrow is Sunday - my day of rest from religion.


EVERY day is sunday for me. Smiley
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OOPS!!! My Karma, ran over your Dogma!
 
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Re: Richard Dawkins in Oz
Reply #266 - May 16th, 2010 at 9:35pm
 
NorthOfNorth wrote on May 14th, 2010 at 7:58pm:
muso wrote on May 14th, 2010 at 6:38pm:
I used to hate organised religion in much the same way as you do.  I guess the thing that attracts me to religions are the cultural aspects rather than anything else,

Like reading Porn mags for the articles?


LOL. I read the Bible for the porn. Wink
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I dream of a better tomorrow, where chickens can cross the road and not be questioned about their motives.
 
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Re: Richard Dawkins in Oz
Reply #267 - May 16th, 2010 at 9:40pm
 
Quotations From The Messiah's Handbook
"Reminders for the Advanced Soul"
in
"Illusions - The Adventures of a Reluctant Messiah"
by Richard Bach - 1977

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Perspective - Use It or Lose It. If you turned to this page, you're forgetting that what is going on around you is not reality. Think about that.
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Remember where you came from, where you're going, and why you created the mess you got yourself into in the first place.
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You are led through your lifetime by the inner learning creature, the playful spiritual being that is your real self. Don't turn away from possible futures before you're certain you don't have anything to learn from them.
You're always free to change your mind and choose a different future, or a different past.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Learning is finding out what you already know. Doing is demonstrating that you know it. Teaching is reminding others that they know just as well as you. You are all learners, doers, and teachers.
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Your only obligation in any lifetime is to be true to yourself. Being true to anyone else or anything else is not only impossible, but the mark of a false messiah.
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Your conscience is the measure of the honesty of your selfishness. Listen to it carefully.
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The simplest questions are the most profound.
Where were you born?
Where is your home?
Where are you going?
What are you doing?
Think about these once in awhile, and watch your answers change.
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Your friends will know you better in the first minute you meet than your acquaintances will know you in a thousand years.
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The bond that links your true family is not one of blood, but of respect and joy in each other's life.
Rarely do members of one family grow up under the same roof.
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There is no such thing as a problem without a gift for you in its hands. You seek problems because you need their gifts.
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Imagine the universe beautiful and just and perfect.

Then be sure of one thing:
The Is has imagined it quite a bit better than you have.
The original sin is to limit the Is.      Don't.
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A cloud does not know why it moves in just such a direction and at such a speed, it feels an impulsion....this is the place to go now.
But the sky knows the reason and the patterns behind all clouds, and you will know, too, when you lift yourself high enough to see beyond horizons.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

You are never given a wish without being given the power to make it true. You may have to work for it, however.
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Argue for your limitations, and sure enough, they're yours.
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If you will practice being fictional for a while, you will understand that fictional characters are sometimes more real than people with bodies and heartbeats.
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The world is your exercise-book, the pages on which you do your sums.
It is not reality, although you can express reality there if you wish. You are also free to write nonsense, or lies, or to tear the pages.
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Every person, all the events of your life, are there because you have drawn them there. What you choose to do with them is up to you.
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In order to live free and happily, you must sacrifice boredom. It is not always an easy sacrifice.
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The best way to avoid responsibility is to say, "I've got responsibilities."
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The truth you speak has no past and no future. It is, and that's all it needs to be.
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Here is a test to find whether your mission on earth is finished: If you're alive, it isn't.
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Don't be dismayed at good-byes. A farewell is necessary before you can meet again.
And meeting again, after moments or lifetimes, is certain for those who are friends.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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I dream of a better tomorrow, where chickens can cross the road and not be questioned about their motives.
 
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locutius
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Re: Richard Dawkins in Oz
Reply #268 - May 16th, 2010 at 9:44pm
 
The mark of your ignorance is the depth of your belief in injustice and tragedy. What the caterpillar calls the end of the world, the master calls a butterfly.

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You're going to die a horrible death, remember. It's all good training, and you'll enjoy it more if you keep the facts in mind.
Take your dying with some seriousness, however. Laughing on the way to your execution it not generally understood by less advanced lifeforms, and they'll call you crazy.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Everything above may be wrong!


A bit cosmic in places I know. But a lot of sensible stuff, wisdom as well.

Wonderfully I discovered Bach and Gibran at about the same time. Late in my reading life but not too late. Pity I came from a family of nonreaders and had to find a lot of stuff myself...then again I encountered a lot more diverse ideas as a consequence I reckon...so all good.

Now where is my copy of Johnathan Livingstone Seagull again?
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I dream of a better tomorrow, where chickens can cross the road and not be questioned about their motives.
 
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mozzaok
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Re: Richard Dawkins in Oz
Reply #269 - May 17th, 2010 at 9:01am
 
HEY!@#$%^&*()
I thought I was supposed to be the spaced out old hippie around here?

Johnathon Livingstone Seagull???

Who'd have thought anybody would reckon pictures of flying rats would help people envision their life with possibilities?

Not me.

I must admit to holding some bias against vaguely unspecific musings that are meant to imply deep mystical truths, which could be abbreviated to, 'work it out for yourself'.
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OOPS!!! My Karma, ran over your Dogma!
 
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