Australian Politics Forum - guide dogs and muslims

abu_rashid

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Re: guide dogs and muslims
Reply #15 - Sep 28^th, 2009 at 11:39am

Perhaps in terms of people who are nominally from Buddhist backgrounds, and pretty much only because of immigration. Islamic growth is driven not just by immigration but by conversions. The number of mosques in Australia would outstrip the number of Buddhist temples, as would Islamic schools. And I guarantee you that you're much more likely to meet an Aussie Muslim in a mosque than you are an Aussie Buddhist in a Buddhist temple. So statistics aren't all there is to this.

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skippy

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Re: guide dogs and muslims
Reply #16 - Sep 28^th, 2009 at 11:52am

abu_rashid wrote on Sep 28^th, 2009 at 11:39am:

Perhaps in terms of people who are nominally from Buddhist backgrounds, and pretty much only because of immigration. Islamic growth is driven not just by immigration but by conversions. The number of mosques in Australia would outstrip the number of Buddhist temples, as would Islamic schools. And I guarantee you that you're much more likely to meet an Aussie Muslim in a mosque than you are an Aussie Buddhist in a Buddhist temple. So statistics aren't all there is to this.

Get over it abu.
You still havn't provided the info about western conversions in Australia, I've provided proof from the ABS, I'm happy to believe you, if you show us the proof.
As for your other points re Immigration, do you really think Islam is any different to Buddhism? ofcouse many SE Asians are Buddhist, but so are most Arabs and other Asians Muslim.

The only reason there are Muslim schools in Australia is because the Muslim community want them, unlike Muslims, Buddhists dont need to go to a special school just for them, they intergrate within the community and become a part of the community, not just keep to their own.
I donr believe in God, but my son goes to Buddhism class at school and considers himself a Buddhist,as do about 40% of the kids at his public school.

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abu_rashid

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Re: guide dogs and muslims
Reply #17 - Sep 28^th, 2009 at 12:21pm

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You still havn't provided the info about western conversions in Australia

Visit your local mosque or Islamic centre and see the proof for yourself.

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unlike Muslims, Buddhists dont need to go to a special school just for them

If there were no Buddhist schools, then you might have a point. But there are some, just not as many. I take this as an indicator they are nominal Buddhists. ie. Buddhists on the census, but that's about it. As I was a "Christian" before, perhaps on the census, but definitely not in lifestyle or practice or belief.

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they intergrate within the community and become a part of the community, not just keep to their own.

Christians (mostly anglos) have the largest number of faith-based schools in Australia, so are you suggesting they don't become part of the community and integrate and just keep to their own?? Interesting take..

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skippy

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Re: guide dogs and muslims
Reply #18 - Sep 28^th, 2009 at 12:35pm

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Visit your local mosque or Islamic centre and see the proof for yourself.

OFFICIAL ABS FIGURES SAY YOU ARE WRONG.
I;ll stick to the recorded numbers from those taken off census data.

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Christians (mostly anglos) have the largest number of faith-based schools in Australia, so are you suggesting they don't become part of the community and integrate and just keep to their own??

You're right Christian schools do have the largest number of faith based schools, and guess what? only fifty years ago Catholics did keep to their community and Protastants to theirs. In fact my grandmother had to change her religion in order to marry a catholic.

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abu_rashid

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Re: guide dogs and muslims
Reply #19 - Sep 28^th, 2009 at 1:14pm

So do you think Anglo-Christians, that send their kids to faith-based schools, don't integrate into Australian society??

I don't know about the Christian-based schools, but at my son's Islamic school he has subjects completely devoted to community studies in which they go out into the community and get involved. Nothing isolationist about it at all. I'd say you hastily made that judgement based on pre-conceived biases rather than on concrete knowledge.

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skippy

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Re: guide dogs and muslims
Reply #20 - Sep 28^th, 2009 at 2:43pm

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So do you think Anglo-Christians, that send their kids to faith-based schools, don't integrate into Australian society??

Anglo Christian IS what Australian socirty is built on, they are already part of Australian society.

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I'd say you hastily made that judgement based on pre-conceived biases rather than on concrete knowledge.

No, I didn't, I based my opnion on the fact most ethnics that come to Australia live in areas where people from their own background live and have social ties with those people from their ethnic background.
BTW, all but one of the Buddhists I know are of anglo background and converted to Buddhism.
I lived in the suburbs of Sydney for 32 years and never met a convert to Islam.I'm not saying they don't exist, and I'm sure if there are that many you could come up with the stats.

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abu_rashid

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Re: guide dogs and muslims
Reply #21 - Sep 28^th, 2009 at 3:25pm

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Anglo Christian IS what Australian socirty is built on, they are already part of Australian society.

Not any more. It's a secular society now. So all religions should be treated equally regarding such things.

Besides, my point was not that Christians need to integrate, but that having a faith-based school doesn't mean you're not integrating. Which was your flawed argument, since as you mentioned mainstream Anglo-Australians also have those things, so the fact Muslims have them too, indicates they are following an Australian practice of having them.

Let it die already.

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No, I didn't, I based my opnion on the fact most ethnics that come to Australia live in areas where people from their own background live and have social ties with those people from their ethnic background.

That's not necessarily always by choice you do realise? There are government policies in place that encourage that. Also, think about it, if you moved to another country, would you not feel more comfortable living around fellow Aussies?

Besides I know Muslims who live all over the place, in vastly different areas. I even know Muslims who live in the outback on farms...

Do you think we should have a policy whereby nobody is allowed to live within a 5km radius of someone with the same religion or same ethnic background?

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NorthOfNorth

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Re: guide dogs and muslims
Reply #22 - Sep 28^th, 2009 at 5:45pm

It may be harder to determine the true number of Buddhist adherents than with Islam and Christianity in that with Buddhism, not having a proselytising tradition nor jealous, there is no concept of conversion comparable to that of the other two.

You can practise Buddhism and remain nominally (or even actually) something else without offending Buddhist believers nor necessarily transgressing against Buddhist dogma. Many Christian clerics (perhaps even Muslims, though I suspect they would be less inclined to be overt about it) will admit to practising Buddhism while remaining practising celebrants.

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Conviction is the art of being certain

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